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So for the people that says this game is 'slow,' why? Reading the thread, this has come up numerous amounts of time actually but has never been clarified in context.
Is it boring and slow because the movement speed? Nobody dies? Not enough diversity? Too tanky? Nobody of celebrity status is playing it?
I'm going to make the assumption that those assertions are the general opinions so far and I'm wondering if anyone can compare the movement speed? It seems the same as league or dota, maybe a little faster with the mounts. The game is around 20mins long and that is twice as fast as any league or dota game. If you want fast, this is the fastest dota like game out there.
In my opinion, what makes league and dota games interesting to watch, is mostly (mostly meaning a great portion) because of the people behind the game. You have your favorite team against another team. If you're watching games because of the people, like most people who watch games (sc2, hs, every game)... then of course that game will be more interesting to watch, to you. But this game, we don't have your favorite person playing it, so I don't think some people's opinions are fairly assessed.
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What? lots of big names play/stream HotS
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I don't have alpha access, but was it ever stated what are the conditions for health globe drops? Perhaps having the rate (i.e. 50% drop on last hit, 25% on minion/tower hit) as a byproduct of last-hitting would up the "skill ceiling" somewhat. You won't get bogged down in the farming phases of other mobas, but you can still play a big role in lane control.
All in all, the streams look solid. Maps and unit designs look great. Gameplay looks fun albeit heavy on snowballing. I'm still not sold on the slow movement/animation speeds, but I've done enough Blizzard betas to know there's still the chance for change.
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On March 20 2014 04:29 Sn0_Man wrote:
What? lots of big names play/stream HotS
The big names are from sc2 and other blizzard products... not dota, not LoL.
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On March 20 2014 04:29 ssxsilver wrote:
I don't have alpha access, but was it ever stated what are the conditions for health globe drops? Perhaps having the rate (i.e. 50% drop on last hit, 25% on minion/tower hit) as a byproduct of last-hitting would up the "skill ceiling" somewhat. You won't get bogged down in the farming phases of other mobas, but you can still play a big role in lane control.
All in all, the streams look solid. Maps and unit designs look great. Gameplay looks fun albeit heavy on snowballing. I'm still not sold on the slow movement/animation speeds, but I've done enough Blizzard betas to know there's still the chance for change.
I believe it is the mage creeps that drop the globes
Also HOTS is the least snowbally MOBA('ish) out there
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On March 20 2014 04:34 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 04:29 ssxsilver wrote:
I don't have alpha access, but was it ever stated what are the conditions for health globe drops? Perhaps having the rate (i.e. 50% drop on last hit, 25% on minion/tower hit) as a byproduct of last-hitting would up the "skill ceiling" somewhat. You won't get bogged down in the farming phases of other mobas, but you can still play a big role in lane control.
All in all, the streams look solid. Maps and unit designs look great. Gameplay looks fun albeit heavy on snowballing. I'm still not sold on the slow movement/animation speeds, but I've done enough Blizzard betas to know there's still the chance for change. I believe it is the mage creeps that drop the globes
Thanks man.
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Remember that when you're talking about lasthitting creeps it's not only about being able to deal the killing blow. You need to position yourself close enough to the creep so you can hit it, and that opens up the possibility for your enemy to trade and get damage in for free. The constant decisionmaking and balancing between safety, lasthits, trading with enemy and zoning enemy out is what is good in lasthitting. When Blizzard removes lasthitting, they are not only removing the quite easy mechanic to learn, but they also remove the all what comes with it and makes these games require skill.
edit: Creeps lasthitted by heroes could give additional XP, gold and item system is not required to make lasthitting matter.
edit2: What makes the game feel slow(I've only watched it, not played any) is that the damage overall feels very low and movement speed is kinda slow. I don't know if there is any talents which make you faster but they could make character movement speed rise every level.
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I don't really get the complaints about the slow movement speed. In League everyone moves like a snail. heroes seems to have a similar speed in general to league if no one has speed increasing items.
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On March 20 2014 04:38 Ogww wrote:
Remember that when you're talking about lasthitting creeps it's not only about being able to deal the killing blow. You need to position yourself close enough to the creep so you can hit it, and that opens up the possibility for your enemy to trade and get damage in for free. The constant decisionmaking and balancing between safety, lasthits, trading with enemy and zoning enemy out is what is good in lasthitting. When Blizzard removes lasthitting, they are not only removing the quite easy mechanic to learn, but they also remove the all what comes with it and makes these games require skill.
You need to be somewhat close to the wave to get XP. In HOTS every character starts with their abilities. For the most part every character has some form of either CC or positional manipulation. It is very easy from level 1 to secure kills if an enemy hero is slightly out of position if you coordinate your attack correctly. The lanes are also quite short since there isn't a river so it is far easier to get out of position in HOTS (at least imo) than it is in DOTA. You also have no visibility to the jungle in general due to the tall grass mechanics so it is very easy to pop out and gank a lane.
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On March 20 2014 04:38 Ogww wrote:
Remember that when you're talking about lasthitting creeps it's not only about being able to deal the killing blow. You need to position yourself close enough to the creep so you can hit it, and that opens up the possibility for your enemy to trade and get damage in for free. The constant decisionmaking and balancing between safety, lasthits, trading with enemy and zoning enemy out is what is good in lasthitting. When Blizzard removes lasthitting, they are not only removing the quite easy mechanic to learn, but they also remove the all what comes with it and makes these games require skill.
edit: Creeps lasthitted by heroes could give additional XP, gold and item system is not required to make lasthitting matter.
Just because a system is removed doesn't mean there is a lack of depth, since other systems, like the objectives, are in place. Just because last hitting isn't there doesn't mean people will stopping carring where they position their hero.
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On March 20 2014 04:39 Plansix wrote:
I don't really get the complaints about the slow movement speed. In League everyone moves like a snail. heroes seems to have a similar speed in general to league if no one has speed increasing items.
Can't speak for everyone else, but it's the movement speeds that deterred me from getting into LoL and Dota 2. I preferred HoN's pacing in spite of the other issues the game had.
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Seriously read the last two pages and over half the posts basically read like "This game isn't like LoL or DotA and is bad!"
Thats what will make it good. Looks super fun to play already. Really wishing I had alpha key. Hope to get in beta.
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Where does bad enter the equation? I'm quite sure the game will be fun for some amount of time.
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On March 20 2014 04:01 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 03:52 NonY wrote:On March 20 2014 02:58 Sn0_Man wrote:On March 20 2014 02:47 NonY wrote:
Personally I think it's obvious that the game has enough elements for it to be competitive without something like last hitting. And as for it being an esport, something like last hitting is almost completely irrelevant. League of Legends broadcasts got a ton of criticism for focusing too much on last hitting (mainly Phreak I think got a ton of shit about it). Viewers want to hear about strategy and the big picture and are livid if you're ever watching one guy cs'ing when real action might be going on elsewhere. You almost never hear about it now except for as a metric to judge who is winning lane phase, but of course there are other metrics for that. The focus in LoL esports is always on objectives now, and Heroes seems like it'll be an even more objective-centric game. That'd be like SC2 casters never mentioning probe count because its "boring" and viewers want to hear about "the big picture" well guess what the economy is the big picture. Removing the economy of the game is a decision that is clearly geared towards bridging the gap between good players and bad ones. After all, the advice to bronzies is always "Probes and pylons". So while yes there will be competitions because any game that pits players against each other has competitions, the idea that it's a reasonable esport is pretty loose. I mean, I don't watch league casts but if I did i'd want to know the creep scores as they are one of the most important metrics to measure who is winning, moreso than any other information that isn't instantly available to everybody who wants to know at any point during the cast tbh i don't give a shit what it's like. why do you make a metaphor when the example i gave fits perfectly already and actually exists? My example also happens to actually exist unless you don't think sc2 is an esport? The economy of the game is important, that holds true in most genres. Just because viewers get bored by the nitty gritty details of the economy doesn't mean that it isn't game deciding in a lot of situations. I mean, I don't think an RTS where there was no economy to speak of would be all that reasonable as an e-sport despite the fact that obviously more skilled players would defeat less skilled players. It's not about the game being fun, which I'm sure it will be.
The economy is only important when it's important for the game.
And there are a shit-ton of eSports that don't care about any kind of economy. Fighting games, FPS, sports games, MMO PvP...
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On March 20 2014 04:28 Lokian wrote:
So for the people that says this game is 'slow,' why? Reading the thread, this has come up numerous amounts of time actually but has never been clarified in context.
Is it boring and slow because the movement speed? Nobody dies? Not enough diversity? Too tanky? Nobody of celebrity status is playing it?
I'm going to make the assumption that those assertions are the general opinions so far and I'm wondering if anyone can compare the movement speed? It seems the same as league or dota, maybe a little faster with the mounts. The game is around 20mins long and that is twice as fast as any league or dota game. If you want fast, this is the fastest dota like game out there.
In my opinion, what makes league and dota games interesting to watch, is mostly (mostly meaning a great portion) because of the people behind the game. You have your favorite team against another team. If you're watching games because of the people, like most people who watch games (sc2, hs, every game)... then of course that game will be more interesting to watch, to you. But this game, we don't have your favorite person playing it, so I don't think some people's opinions are fairly assessed.
I haven't played it, but from watching streams it seems like fighting is slow. That is, attack speeds and animations seem rather lengthy, as do cast animations. On top of that, everyone seems reasonably tanky, at least compared to League/Dota where people can get blown up in a matter of seconds.
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On March 20 2014 04:51 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 04:39 Plansix wrote:
I don't really get the complaints about the slow movement speed. In League everyone moves like a snail. heroes seems to have a similar speed in general to league if no one has speed increasing items. Can't speak for everyone else, but it's the movement speeds that deterred me from getting into LoL and Dota 2. I preferred HoN's pacing in spite of the other issues the game had.
I remember a discussion where this was talked about and HoN seemed faster because the camera is closer to the character. I'm wondering if that's true now though...
Last hitting offers economic advantage, zoning risks, timing, etc. On maps like the Raven Map, or most of the maps in general, wouldn't you say that the objectives are comparable to what last hitting offers?
For example, when you're capturing an objective, it gives you an economic advantage, you need to zone correctly with your team because it can be an area of contention (like the cursed tribute), and a lot of timing is involved in capturing that objective. You say that last hitting forces you to be close enough that the enemy can hit you, thus deepening the skill of going in to get last hit and dealing with the enemy? It seems to me that most of these objectives requires the skills of last hitting? Let me know if this makes sense or if I'm totally wrong.
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I'd like to see all heroes have 10% less HP.
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This will be the MOBA I play and the fact that it's different from LoL or DOTA is what draws me in.
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I find the game very watchable... The streams are fun to watch. I rarely get that feeling from LoL/DOTA2. Although I have enjoyed watching some Korean LoL in the past. I guess all the Blizzard stuff really helps with the watch-ability...
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On March 20 2014 04:51 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 04:39 Plansix wrote:
I don't really get the complaints about the slow movement speed. In League everyone moves like a snail. heroes seems to have a similar speed in general to league if no one has speed increasing items. Can't speak for everyone else, but it's the movement speeds that deterred me from getting into LoL and Dota 2. I preferred HoN's pacing in spite of the other issues the game had.
I agree. HoN's engine / physics just felt the best. The gameplay/movement/mechanics just felt very smooth and natural. Too bad S2 got completely swallowed by both Riot and Valve 
HotS character movement does look very sluggish, though I obviously haven't played for myself.
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EPT
