EPTHeroes Large General Thread - Page 317
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On February 07 2015 05:25 Tenks wrote: These all seem reasonable. Maybe the hook cut maybe a bit too much. I wonder if lowering Gorge damage (or removing the damage outright) and removing Tenderizer from his kit would go a long way. I don't know if BW really needs Envenom removed since his shield at 4 has an 80% pick rate at Master. If they remove Rewind from BW they need to just remove Rewind completely from the game. It is clear you cannot balance the talent. I agree that leaving Envenom is fine, mostly because I'm starting to think Rewind is just a problem overall. Take Kerrigan for example, once people get really good with her, then you can 100-0 just about anyone hero with no chance of counterplay outside missing the first shot hit. I'm pretty sure she's going to lose it eventually. There are still 4 other heroes with rewind - Malfurion, Muradin, Tyrande, Nazeebo. I guess they're ok with it. The thing with Tychus, is right now he gets hp instantly but sits through a cast-timer. That's weird. Look at how often Tychus goes into Odin then immediately has it blow up because of the damage he takes during cast time. I don't think making it interruptible is necessary, thought it would make him easier to deal with outside of team fights (but then he's burning Odin outside a team fight and you have plenty of time to disengage). I dunno, Blizzard has specifically mentioned his double health bar as problematic in the past so clearly this is where he's going to get nerfed. Edit: Some more highlights from the video Hero League is bucked by MMR to have 2.5% of the play pool in each rank. This means ranks 50-40 are just a grind and MMR kicks in after that or something. They look at hero representation to alert them if something needs a buff/nerf (he specifically called out Murky). Interesting to me - they're scared to buff Illidan because of his mechanics. To me that means built-in battle momentum on a high attack speed hero with no mana cost. I know The Hunt sucks, but if you're ever seen it it's actually pretty easy to spam. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On February 07 2015 05:46 Wuster wrote: The thing with Tychus, is right now he gets hp instantly but sits through a cast-timer. That's weird. Look at how often Tychus goes into Odin then immediately has it blow up because of the damage he takes during cast time. I don't think making it interruptible is necessary, thought it would make him easier to deal with outside of team fights (but then he's burning Odin outside a team fight and you have plenty of time to disengage). I dunno, Blizzard has specifically mentioned his double health bar as problematic in the past so clearly this is where he's going to get nerfed. Odin is basically a massive shield you gain with a bit of a wind-up time that you can't interrupt. If any hero had the ability to just be like "Nah I want 2k HP right now" as their ult it would be a problem. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On February 07 2015 05:50 hariooo wrote: I don't think nerfing unique mechanics in a game with a very limited pool of heroes in the first place compared to other MOBA's is a great idea. Which unique mechanics are you talking about? Odin? Because the ult is straight up broken and needs something done about it. Right now with Tychus' kit he can output massive damage and also absorb in a massive amount of damage. Having a hero with basically no downside is a clear problem. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On February 07 2015 05:50 Tenks wrote: Odin is basically a massive shield you gain with a bit of a wind-up time that you can't interrupt. If any hero had the ability to just be like "Nah I want 2k HP right now" as their ult it would be a problem. Sorry, I didn't quote or reference my previous post on my predicted nerfs. What I meant was Odin just needs the HP gain moved to the end of the cast-animation rather than being a shield. IMO that's a bigger nerf than making it interruptible anyways. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On February 07 2015 05:52 Wuster wrote: Sorry, I didn't quote or reference my previous post on my predicted nerfs. What I meant was Odin just needs the HP gain moved to the end of the cast-animation rather than being a shield. IMO that's a bigger nerf than making it interruptible anyways. Ah ok that sounds reasonable. Although they should add a cast bar even if it is uninterruptible to make it a bit more obvious "You will complete when this finishes." I could see it being somewhat unintuitive without a progress bar. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
On February 07 2015 05:05 Wuster wrote: If I were a betting man: Stiches - hook range reduced and/or gorge damage reduced Brightwing - no more rewind Tychus - Odin doesn't give you HP until the cast time is finished That's what I would like to see as well, but I bet at least one hero is going to be nerfed to oblivion.  On February 07 2015 06:02 xDaunt wrote: I dunno, I don't think that a 30% nerf to Stitches' hook range is unreasonable. He currently can grab people from almost off the fucking screen. That's just stupid. Just remove Fishing Hook then | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
If you want to nerf Stitches then just adjust his defensive values if you don't want him to be strong 1v1. Nerfing stuff like range or speed actually makes heroes way less fun to play and just homogenizes the game into a bland mess. And Tychus is pretty easily managed with a duration nerf on Odin. But to suggest that "oh no other hero can duplicate a second health bar so it must inherently be OP and unfair" is just ridiculous. Like damn you'd be really offended with Brewmaster getting like 3 extra health bars. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 07 2015 06:25 hariooo wrote: Just because HOTS continued the (awful) tradition of forcing an extremely close isometric viewpoint and you apparently only play with hero centered on the camera doesn't make that a particularly strong argument. It's not like it's the only spell with that or longer range anyway. If you want to nerf Stitches then just adjust his defensive values if you don't want him to be strong 1v1. Nerfing stuff like range or speed actually makes heroes way less fun to play and just homogenizes the game into a bland mess. And Tychus is pretty easily managed with a duration nerf on Odin. But to suggest that "oh no other hero can duplicate a second health bar so it must inherently be OP and unfair" is just ridiculous. Like damn you'd be really offended with Brewmaster getting like 3 extra health bars. Yeah, there are other spells that have long range (or longer), but none of them result in virtually guaranteed kills like hook does, and I believe that all of them are ultimates. So don't pretend that they are in any way equivalent. And you're seriously going to compare Tychus to Chen? Wtf? Chen doesn't do damage when he's drinking brew. He just sits and soaks it. Tychus, on the other hand, gets his second health bar instantly and then he turns around and rapes faces instantly. Chen is a pretty worthless hero right now. You can't say that about Tychus. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10167 Posts
Also, did you guys noticed how he dodged the Bans question ? Or did i miss something ? | ||
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RouaF
France4121 Posts
Stitches either needs a damage or a utility nerf, they should probably lower his damage (W and gorge) and he will be fine and will still be able to make plays. Tychus needs either a duration nerf on odin or a cooldown nerf (correct me if I'm wrong but I think the cd starts when you cast it so if you get the full duration the cd looks really short). Brightwing's obvious choice for a nerf would be rewind but I'm not really sure he will still be good without it. Rewind is a problematic talent overall anyway, they should probably remove it and give better options at lvl 13 for all the heroes affected. You need to realize that nerfing heroes hard is counter productive because it just makes them disappear and others take their places. Yes Tychus is good but he is not "beyond godlike broken" good, in high ranked games a lot of people pick valla or hammer over tychus depending on the map/teamcomp. Same goes for brightwing, hell I'd even say uther is overall stronger than him. The only really problematic hero right now is stitches because he is good in all comps and he makes a lot of other heroes completely non viable (almost all the heroes that have no dash or jump). But he is still less annoying than alpha-abathur and alpha-nova. | ||
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Hildegard
Germany348 Posts
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PardonYou
United States1360 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On February 07 2015 07:00 RouaF wrote: Brightwing's obvious choice for a nerf would be rewind but I'm not really sure he will still be good without it. Rewind is a problematic talent overall anyway, they should probably remove it and give better options at lvl 13 for all the heroes affected. Brightwing is kind of a weird healer, if he doesn't have his toolbox then yes he's bad, because his healing doesn't match anyone else's (ignoring Tyrande / Tass cuz they aren't really healers). But Rewind + Critterize is just so strong. Maybe you nerf Critterize? Then double poly is still pretty good, but is it OP good? I dunno. On the topic of Stiches and his hook, 've seen it suggested that Fishing Hook should = Stiches' base hook range, so nerf his base range to 66% to accomplish this. This also locks Stiches out of long hooks and damage/stun on Pulverize so you have to choose which way to go with him instead of just taking it all. Of course this doesn't even touch on Gorge + Blink on Stiches... but I'm not sure that's as OP without a long hook anyways. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On February 07 2015 06:54 Godwrath wrote: Also, did you guys noticed how he dodged the Bans question ? Or did i miss something ? He gave the standard non-answer about they're discussing it and still open to tweaks on Hero League. Although he did say they didn't want the draft phase to take too long. But I notice that he immediately mentioned that they're aware of people complaining how hard it is to get into hero league. Bans would up the number of heroes you need to own for draft so reading between the lines that's their main reasoning for not having it. I always assumed Team League would have bans, but he didn't say anything about it or hint to it, so who knows. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Holy_AT
Austria978 Posts
On February 07 2015 07:46 Tenks wrote: Bans would be weird because who would be in charge of it with 5 pugs? Captains mode ! | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22666 Posts
On February 07 2015 07:46 Tenks wrote: Bans would be weird because who would be in charge of it with 5 pugs? Highest MMR in the case of ranked or a random in the case of unranked. Works well enough for LoL | ||
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