I am pretty sure they did not even know if these maps would work once outside blizz, which as you can see with some maps like Haunted Mines it's not working.

As someone who's played probably a dozen games of Heroes and still not hit some maps more than once - what's wrong with haunted mines and where are you getting that info? what high level sources, i mean

xDaunt

United States17988 Posts

October 24 2014 15:41 GMT

#3062

I kinda like Haunted Mines. Garden of Terror is my least favorite. I also am not currently a fan of the pirate map because too many players are too inexperienced (or stupid) to play it correctly. Under those conditions, it becomes an exercise in frustration. With two good teams, however, I would think that it'd one of the most interesting and fun maps to play.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

October 24 2014 15:45 GMT

#3063

Problem with Haunted Mines as higher MMR's is the map is so small and snowbally, that often the game is decided @ lvl 4 (1st mines). It's an almost impossible to come back from map, and due to it's small size and things like only 3 merc camps, has very little room to be creative.

Honestly up to lvl 4 is ok, but after the 1st mines it's just like "omg let the game end". Even when ahead.

Laserist

Turkey4269 Posts

October 24 2014 16:29 GMT

#3064

On October 25 2014 00:45 Diamond wrote:
Problem with Haunted Mines as higher MMR's is the map is so small and snowbally, that often the game is decided @ lvl 4 (1st mines). It's an almost impossible to come back from map, and due to it's small size and things like only 3 merc camps, has very little room to be creative.

Honestly up to lvl 4 is ok, but after the 1st mines it's just like "omg let the game end". Even when ahead.

I feel "omg let them end" in all of the maps except the curse map. Other maps give you some strong shit that AI take care of their base while you either push more or grab other neuts to snowball more. In curse map you can stand and depush the lanes to some extent.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

October 24 2014 16:52 GMT

#3065

Other maps have comeback possibilities, Haunted Mines at high mmr is over at the teamfight in the mines at lvl 4. Oncein a blue moon a comeback happens, but it requires the enemy really fucking up over anything. On other maps there is ways where you can comeback that does not require an opponent messing up, but instead can be started by solid play on your end.

Dragon Shire allows you to rotate to whatever shrine the opponents are not at and take mercs, Cursed has alot of great ambush areas, Blackheart's has the possibility of donating dozens of coins in one teamfight (as well as many good ambush areas), and Garden has 180 seeds per night cycle.

Mines just gets worse and worse after level 4 when behind, and even when ahead it just feels like going thru the motions instead of creative play.

Serejai

6007 Posts

October 24 2014 17:03 GMT

#3066

Merc camps are an issue on a few maps. Pick someone like Gazlowe and you're either going to be really bad or really good, depending on whether you got the map with three merc camps or the map with ten merc camps.

Not a fan of picking a hero before knowing what map you're playing on.

Destructicon

4713 Posts

October 24 2014 18:56 GMT

#3067

So are Attack/HP/Mana per globes or kills any good or just situational? Like I didn't think the scaling attack would be any good but I've had some games were I've had to fight off several pushes and managed to stack it nicely.

Tenks

United States3104 Posts

October 24 2014 19:34 GMT

#3068

Map dependent and hero dependent mostly. I know some people like taking regen master on heroes like Stitches to try and gain a bit more healing. Don't forget that healing also stacks if you take the +Healing talent at 4. So towards the latter part you can really notice the difference. I like to take Marksman on certain heroes in certain situations. Like on Raynor if we have an actual support I take Marksman. I believe Uther is pretty popular to take the mana one.

Also Marksman is based off creep kills not globe consumption -- for whatever reason it plays different

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

October 24 2014 20:15 GMT

#3069

Marksman is horrifyingly bad and should never be taken. You never want to be last hitting minions. The only excuse you have for not shoving is that you're setting up for a gank or notice that you're about to get ganked. Otherwise, pressure on the towers (and their ammo) is infinitely more important than any kind of marginal AP increase. You're going to get something like 20-25 damage by the end of a normal game that you win*, and 10-12 on a game you lose if you are good at last hitting.

The mana/globe talent is win more. Very helpful when winning as it lets you just keep pushing without having to go back for mana, but if you're behind you can't always get orbs, you aren't getting orbs from merc camps, and your mana matters a lot less.

I've used both extensively and pretty much always would have rather had another rank 1 talent.

*This is assuming you win so hard that you can afford to splitpush a lane for the first 5-7 minutes while your team wins the game for you.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

October 24 2014 20:58 GMT

#3070

Marksmen is actually very strong on some maps. You don't have to last hit anymore.

The others are map/hero dependent. Never take them on Haunted Mines.

FHDH

United States7023 Posts

October 24 2014 21:08 GMT

#3071

Wrong thread.

Yoav

United States1874 Posts

October 24 2014 22:14 GMT

#3072

On October 24 2014 19:01 KeksX wrote:
The point about Nova feels valid and I obviously can't tell much about the hero feeling apart from the fact that I heard people having a different opinion.

Well, technically Nova's snipe and pining and triple tap are all psionically enhanced. But more importantly, I think they'll add Tosh eventually as a psionic version of the ghost/spectre concept.

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

October 24 2014 23:07 GMT

#3073

On October 25 2014 05:58 Diamond wrote:
Marksmen is actually very strong on some maps. You don't have to last hit anymore.

The others are map/hero dependent. Never take them on Haunted Mines.

When did they change it? I must have missed it in the patch notes.

magnaflow

Canada1521 Posts

October 25 2014 00:30 GMT

#3074

I kind of like that there are good maps, and not so good maps. Gives Blizzard a good idea of what works, and what doesn't. Games coming along great IMO, can't wait too see whats next!

Wish I had an invite though

Destructicon

4713 Posts

October 25 2014 01:10 GMT

#3075

On October 25 2014 09:30 magnaflow wrote:
I kind of like that there are good maps, and not so good maps. Gives Blizzard a good idea of what works, and what doesn't. Games coming along great IMO, can't wait too see whats next!

Wish I had an invite though

Well its the natural order of things. You need to test concepts and have some bad maps before you can make good maps. Given that its only alpha and we have some fun maps and concepts I have high hopes for the future.
Also it is sort of refreshing seeing hero design based more on the lore of the heroes rather then meta. All though given that the game is still in its infancy its probably too early to talk about any sort of meta.

Edit: I hope that Heroes tournaments will also feature map vetos along with hero vetoes. I love the hero pick and ban phase in DoTA and combining it with the map veto system from SC2 would really test a team's ability to research, adapt and counter another team.

Capresis

United States518 Posts

October 25 2014 01:27 GMT

#3076

I agree, and I hope they also add even crazier maps to test out before the end of Alpha. Like a one lane map, maybe some maps with little/no towers, something. I guess the crazier the map pool is, the worse their 'choose a hero before you know what map you're getting' queuing will be though.

And where's my key, dammit! I signed up for beta on day 1.

wongfeihung

United States763 Posts

October 25 2014 06:53 GMT

#3077

+ Show Spoiler +

Has this happened to anyone else? This just happened to me three games in a row, within the span of 5-10 minutes. I get this screen and have to exit out. Then, when I get back in, I don't have the option to reconnect, so I just queue again. The first game, it was 15-20 minutes into the game. In the second two games, it happened within the first 2 minutes of the match starting.

Laserist

Turkey4269 Posts

October 25 2014 15:17 GMT

#3078

Mines is the shittiest map ever created in game history.

NonY

8751 Posts

October 25 2014 16:21 GMT

#3079

I keep getting bots on my team. Is there any way to prevent this without queuing as a full group?

On October 25 2014 02:03 Serejai wrote:
Merc camps are an issue on a few maps. Pick someone like Gazlowe and you're either going to be really bad or really good, depending on whether you got the map with three merc camps or the map with ten merc camps.

Not a fan of picking a hero before knowing what map you're playing on.

Yeah I don't really understand this. I think the heroes are clearly designed to be better and worse on different maps and with different teammates and enemies. But they've designed their system so that hero picks are made based on neither maps nor other players' picks. They need an overhaul on one or the other. In the meantime they have an embarrassing lack of communication between the teams in charge of hero design and matchmaking. Honestly the Blizzcon tournament is gonna be a joke if they don't fix this by then. Custom matches where the teams agree on a map and to reveal each other's picks are obviously more legit.