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EDIT:: You managed to fix it in the time it took me to write a post noting it was broken. Well-done.
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On December 11 2015 02:06 Circumstance wrote:
EDIT:: You managed to fix it in the time it took me to write a post noting it was broken. Well-done.
There is a ten second window between posting and enabling html, I always worry somebody will catch it...
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l will be testing Animated Armor + Blingtron! See y'all on the Ladder!
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I don't think Rafaam has as much versatility as he appears, I have to admit. I do, however, see great potential in Animated Armor This may not necessarily be the right meta for it, but Animated Armor seems like exactly what Fatigue Mage wants as a replacement for a mediocre Refreshment Vendor.
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i have been playing a spell druid with mild success, but lots of fun and im so hyped for raven idol!
hope my hype will be justified in this kind of deck..
anyway i think it was a great expansion with a lot of exciting new cards.
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Raven Idol might be my favorite card from the set
Eerie Statue and Curator are going to be insane as well
Rafaam seems really bad to me, but we will see
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Wouldn't Rafaam be nice in Renolock? There's probably a card somewhere that can be replaced in the list for Curse.
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I can't even play this yet, this is cruel.
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On December 11 2015 03:33 Saechiis wrote:
I can't even play this yet, this is cruel.
NA can play this already, EU always late 
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Fossilized Devilsaur probably won't see play, but saying it's strictly worse than Ironbark Protector is incorrect. Any class can use it, not just Druid. Furthermore it's a card I would welcome in Arena, a solid 8/8 block can seal the deal, it's a nice add to the card pool.
Something I notice in general with these reviews is the lack of imagination. Take Tomb Pillager for example. Obviously this doesn't fit into Oil Rogue, Oil Rogue is a complete deck, and something would have to be almost custom made for that deck type to actually fit in - mentioning existing decks like this is by and large pointless. Unless a card fits squarely into an existing deck - and most of these don't - I wouldn't mention how it doesn't fit. Instead, why not discuss how they might be part of a new type of deck? Say, Tomb Pillager and Unearthed Raptor, for a minion-oriented Rogue deck, instead of talking about how neither card fits into Oil Rogue. Instead of talking about how Face Hunter might use Desert Camel and Injured Kvaldir, and I can assure you they won't, talk about what you can do if he were the focus of the deck, and how it might shift the meta to be more midrange. The thinking in these articles is too rigid.
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I guess what I find amazing is how obvious the cards are this time. I don't want to be too arrogant now... but you guys did a great job of pinpointing what each deck the cards would see play in.
Face/Hybrid Hunter will be so obnoxious running Injured Kvaldir, great idea Blizzard turn 3 for 4/8 worth of stats and two minions. Could definitely see people running Kvaldir over almost all other 1 drops except Chows probably or Abusives just to combat this.
Man oh man silence Druid is going to be SICK now. Might be interesting to experiment with silence Priest.
I remember loving Deathrattle Priest back in the Undertaker days so will give that one a spin.
I want to try Animated Armor as a joke in Spare Parts Mech Mage, see how many stealths I can get, maybe can get a few rounds of near invincibility. Maybe I can sacrifice Shredders... ugh I hate that card you always feel sick for not including it, wish they would just delete it from the game.
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On December 11 2015 06:08 NewSunshine wrote:
Fossilized Devilsaur probably won't see play, but saying it's strictly worse than Ironbark Protector is incorrect. Any class can use it, not just Druid. Furthermore it's a card I would welcome in Arena, a solid 8/8 block can seal the deal, it's a nice add to the card pool.
Something I notice in general with these reviews is the lack of imagination. Take Tomb Pillager for example. Obviously this doesn't fit into Oil Rogue, Oil Rogue is a complete deck, and something would have to be almost custom made for that deck type to actually fit in - mentioning existing decks like this is by and large pointless. Unless a card fits squarely into an existing deck - and most of these don't - I wouldn't mention how it doesn't fit. Instead, why not discuss how they might be part of a new type of deck? Say, Tomb Pillager and Unearthed Raptor, for a minion-oriented Rogue deck, instead of talking about how neither card fits into Oil Rogue. Instead of talking about how Face Hunter might use Desert Camel and Injured Kvaldir, and I can assure you they won't, talk about what you can do if he were the focus of the deck, and how it might shift the meta to be more midrange. The thinking in these articles is too rigid.
No offense man but
1. Just because other people can play it doesn't mean the card isn't strictly worse it infact is
2. We LITERALLY go into tomb raiders possible uses in other decks (including the deathrattle you mentioned) so I dunno wtf you are talking about
3. The poster below you agrees that it will see play in face hunter, also it will be hard (impossible) to build a specific hunter deck around camel outside of the cards we mentioned
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On December 11 2015 07:03 Daisyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2015 06:08 NewSunshine wrote:
Fossilized Devilsaur probably won't see play, but saying it's strictly worse than Ironbark Protector is incorrect. Any class can use it, not just Druid. Furthermore it's a card I would welcome in Arena, a solid 8/8 block can seal the deal, it's a nice add to the card pool.
Something I notice in general with these reviews is the lack of imagination. Take Tomb Pillager for example. Obviously this doesn't fit into Oil Rogue, Oil Rogue is a complete deck, and something would have to be almost custom made for that deck type to actually fit in - mentioning existing decks like this is by and large pointless. Unless a card fits squarely into an existing deck - and most of these don't - I wouldn't mention how it doesn't fit. Instead, why not discuss how they might be part of a new type of deck? Say, Tomb Pillager and Unearthed Raptor, for a minion-oriented Rogue deck, instead of talking about how neither card fits into Oil Rogue. Instead of talking about how Face Hunter might use Desert Camel and Injured Kvaldir, and I can assure you they won't, talk about what you can do if he were the focus of the deck, and how it might shift the meta to be more midrange. The thinking in these articles is too rigid. No offense man but 1. Just because other people can play it doesn't mean the card isn't strictly worse it infact is 2. We LITERALLY go into tomb raiders possible uses in other decks (including the deathrattle you mentioned) so I dunno wtf you are talking about 3. The poster below you agrees that it will see play in face hunter, also it will be hard (impossible) to build a specific hunter deck around camel outside of the cards we mentioned
1. No, it isn't. For Druids it's strictly worse, for the other classes it's a brand new card. A new card can't be strictly worse than a card that doesn't exist. Neutrality matters.
2. That's fine, but as I said, and this was the main point, there's no reason to talk about how it doesn't fit into a deck like Oil Rogue, when it's plain as day that it doesn't.
3. One person agrees with you, fine. I may be wrong about it too, it might see play. But for Face Hunters to start running at least 2 new cards, neither of which directly adds to face damage in any immediate way, sounds off to me. It sounds like a reach.
No need to get hissy, I'm criticising, nothing more.
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I know everyone doesn't like i but I love curse of Rafaam. Just gotta take like a week to get enough gold
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On December 11 2015 07:16 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2015 07:03 Daisyx wrote:On December 11 2015 06:08 NewSunshine wrote:
Fossilized Devilsaur probably won't see play, but saying it's strictly worse than Ironbark Protector is incorrect. Any class can use it, not just Druid. Furthermore it's a card I would welcome in Arena, a solid 8/8 block can seal the deal, it's a nice add to the card pool.
Something I notice in general with these reviews is the lack of imagination. Take Tomb Pillager for example. Obviously this doesn't fit into Oil Rogue, Oil Rogue is a complete deck, and something would have to be almost custom made for that deck type to actually fit in - mentioning existing decks like this is by and large pointless. Unless a card fits squarely into an existing deck - and most of these don't - I wouldn't mention how it doesn't fit. Instead, why not discuss how they might be part of a new type of deck? Say, Tomb Pillager and Unearthed Raptor, for a minion-oriented Rogue deck, instead of talking about how neither card fits into Oil Rogue. Instead of talking about how Face Hunter might use Desert Camel and Injured Kvaldir, and I can assure you they won't, talk about what you can do if he were the focus of the deck, and how it might shift the meta to be more midrange. The thinking in these articles is too rigid. No offense man but 1. Just because other people can play it doesn't mean the card isn't strictly worse it infact is 2. We LITERALLY go into tomb raiders possible uses in other decks (including the deathrattle you mentioned) so I dunno wtf you are talking about 3. The poster below you agrees that it will see play in face hunter, also it will be hard (impossible) to build a specific hunter deck around camel outside of the cards we mentioned 1. No, it isn't. For Druids it's strictly worse, for the other classes it's a brand new card. A new card can't be strictly worse than a card that doesn't exist. Neutrality matters. 2. That's fine, but as I said, and this was the main point, there's no reason to talk about how it doesn't fit into a deck like Oil Rogue, when it's plain as day that it doesn't. 3. One person agrees with you, fine. I may be wrong about it too, it might see play. But for Face Hunters to start running at least 2 new cards, neither of which directly adds to face damage in any immediate way, sounds off to me. It sounds like a reach. No need to get hissy, I'm criticising, nothing more.
1. Neutrality doesnt matter in this case because even if Ironbark Protector was neutral no class would run it. Druid is already the class that most likes big taunts.
2. Since Tempo/Raptor Rogue is still in its experimental phase, Oil Rogue is the only proven Rogue deck at the moment. So whether a new Rogue card fits into it is absolutely worth talking about.
3. I can see Face Hunter running Kvaldir over Worgen Infiltrator to abuse Desert Camel. That being said, I think Hybrid Hunter is a more likely home than pure face.
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Whether a card is viable has no bearing on whether it and another card have a strictly better/worse relationship. It doesn't matter if it sees no play, I make no odds about this, but saying it won't be played because it's strictly worse is incorrect. It won't see play because it's just a large body with a conditional effect.
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I think Cursed Blade really underrated as a card. Not only is it a way undercosted [wikihs]Stormforged Axe[/wikihs], it also synergizes very well with [wikihs]Bloodsail Raider[/wikihs] and [wikihs]Dread Corsair[/wikihs]. Aggro warrior definitely has fallen out of favor, but this card could revitalize it somewhat. I wouldn't say this will make it a top tier deck, but it could be a great ladder deck.
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On December 11 2015 10:12 stink123 wrote:
I think Cursed Blade really underrated as a card. Not only is it a way undercosted [wikihs]Stormforged Axe[/wikihs], it also synergizes very well with [wikihs]Bloodsail Raider[/wikihs] and [wikihs]Dread Corsair[/wikihs]. Aggro warrior definitely has fallen out of favor, but this card could revitalize it somewhat. I wouldn't say this will make it a top tier deck, but it could be a great ladder deck.
Cursed Blade vs Zoo/Hybrid/Face = Turn 3 Dead
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Curse of Rafaam can be used by Zoo decks to counter one of their weakest matchups: Freeze Mage. The damage triggers on their turn, so Iceblock is neglected and boom mage ded.
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A control Mage could theoretically use Animated Armor, and play it behind a taunt, to keep yourself alive against burn spells.
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On December 11 2015 12:54 NewSunshine wrote:
A control Mage could theoretically use Animated Armor, and play it behind a taunt, to keep yourself alive against burn spells.
Also some Wee Spellstopper (?) action maybe
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On December 11 2015 11:15 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2015 10:12 stink123 wrote:
I think Cursed Blade really underrated as a card. Not only is it a way undercosted [wikihs]Stormforged Axe[/wikihs], it also synergizes very well with [wikihs]Bloodsail Raider[/wikihs] and [wikihs]Dread Corsair[/wikihs]. Aggro warrior definitely has fallen out of favor, but this card could revitalize it somewhat. I wouldn't say this will make it a top tier deck, but it could be a great ladder deck. Cursed Blade vs Zoo/Hybrid/Face = Turn 3 Dead
Turns out if you fall asleep at your keyboard you lose in hearthstone?
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How can Elise be rated so poorly and yet Rafaam is an 8?? Rafaam is a dead card against aggro, its win moreish as you need board for the +10/10 buff and thats after you spent 9 mana playing him. I would rather skip using Rafaam and play Icehowl and i do if i want to deal 10 damage to something. The random 10 damage is still just a worse Avenging Wrath. The only good spell is the mirror and again you're skipping 2 initiative turns by playing him into mummies which is weak to AoE espiecally at those stages of the game.
I can argue that Elise is a superior win condition to Rafaam especially in control vs control matchups. Elise is relevant mid game as a 3/5 which is still fine late game. Getting the monkey is a decent body for cost as essentially a 6/6 for 6 with taunt and the effect of transforming your useless cards in hand to legendary cards is insane. The trick to using the monkey is at fatigue with your hand consisting of cards you wouldnt want to play like acolytes of pain, zombie chows and other combo cards that are no longer useful.
PS. Rafaam is a worse Ysera as well. Weak to Big Game/ Bad body at 8 health to fight against aggro and the 10 mana spells wont save you while awakening can.
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I like Raven Idol as a card, just because it offers so much flexibility.
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On December 11 2015 16:24 Noidberg wrote:
How can Elise be rated so poorly and yet Rafaam is an 8?? Rafaam is a dead card against aggro, its win moreish as you need board for the +10/10 buff and thats after you spent 9 mana playing him. I would rather skip using Rafaam and play Icehowl and i do if i want to deal 10 damage to something. The random 10 damage is still just a worse Avenging Wrath. The only good spell is the mirror and again you're skipping 2 initiative turns by playing him into mummies which is weak to AoE espiecally at those stages of the game.
I can argue that Elise is a superior win condition to Rafaam especially in control vs control matchups. Elise is relevant mid game as a 3/5 which is still fine late game. Getting the monkey is a decent body for cost as essentially a 6/6 for 6 with taunt and the effect of transforming your useless cards in hand to legendary cards is insane. The trick to using the monkey is at fatigue with your hand consisting of cards you wouldnt want to play like acolytes of pain, zombie chows and other combo cards that are no longer useful.
PS. Rafaam is a worse Ysera as well. Weak to Big Game/ Bad body at 8 health to fight against aggro and the 10 mana spells wont save you while awakening can.
I pretty much agree with this Elise should be at least like a 4 or 5 possibly higher. It's certainly playable although I feel that its a bit too early to say how good it actually is. I know these are pre rankings But a 2 seems insanely low. I remember Reynad talking about it on stream about how excited he was to use it in priest. I like the idea of Rafaam but I think its just not that great. even in a control matchup I don't think it gives you enough value for 2 full turns worth of doing nothing else.
I think you can play elise before super late game if your playing another slow control deck because it just seems to give you so many threats that they can't deal with. just have an established board when you play the golden monkey.
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The thing is tempo doesnt matter that much in control vs control. Its best to wait until fatigue because even though legendarys are great they wont help you keep the board against a refined deck. I played a handlock who used monkey after playing jarax thinking he had the ultimate win condition but all he did was play random legendaries that didnt synergize. He couldnt clear a simple sludge betcher or compliment his infernals.
Against aggro sure you can play monkey before fatigue but it still has its risks. Prolly why it has taunt too to help you stabilize into legendaries.
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Another problem with Elise is that her battlecry thickens your deck, so that can potentially make your aggro matchup way worse when your chance of drawing heal or AOE becomes lower.
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On December 11 2015 20:19 heisnotaxel wrote:
Another problem with Elise is that her battlecry thickens your deck, so that can potentially make your aggro matchup way worse when your chance of drawing heal or AOE becomes lower.
Elise certainly thickens my deck!!! 
Heyoooooooooooo
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Cards reviewed in this wing with a rating less than 6 ("Playable") that will absolutely see some degree of competitive play:
Animated Armor: The effect is too powerful not to include in some form of fatigue or Reno mage. It's potentially another Ice Block, preventing the opponent from killing you the next turn because this has to be dealt with first.
Raven Idol: If Jeweled Scarab is good enough for competitive play, then so is this. The flexibility of the Discover cards is proving to be too good to pass up. Play it early, and pick a good card for the early and mid-game. Play it late, and grab a spell or minion that helps shut out the game. Unlike Ethereal Conjurer or Tomb Spider, this isn't a replacement for card draw. Honestly, if this card isn't played because there isn't room for it in double-combo Druid then it's finally time for Blizzard to nerf Force of Nature because it's choking the design space.
Museum Curator: Same deal as above, except even more consistent. In the case of fatigue Priest, it's an advantage that it gives you a new card, rather than draws from the deck. It might not be an auto-include, but again, I'm pointing out cards that certainly deserve a rating of "playable."
Curse of Rafaam: This card will see play for two reasons. First, Reno-lock is a thing now, and running one of these can be justified. Second, it's a hard counter to Ice Block. Generally, it's the right kind of win-more. Let's say you're running zoo and have a decent board by the start of turn 4. Playing this and a 2-drop can be seen as a better play than over-flooding the board with an additional 2-drop or playing a higher cost minion. Your opponent has to keep up with your tempo and eat damage or waste an critical turn.
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On December 12 2015 00:42 Firenza wrote:
Cards reviewed in this wing with a rating less than 6 ("Playable") that will absolutely see some degree of competitive play:
Animated Armor: The effect is too powerful not to include in some form of fatigue or Reno mage. It's potentially another Ice Block, preventing the opponent from killing you the next turn because this has to be dealt with first.
Raven Idol: If Jeweled Scarab is good enough for competitive play, then so is this. The flexibility of the Discover cards is proving to be too good to pass up. Play it early, and pick a good card for the early and mid-game. Play it late, and grab a spell or minion that helps shut out the game. Unlike Ethereal Conjurer or Tomb Spider, this isn't a replacement for card draw. Honestly, if this card isn't played because there isn't room for it in double-combo Druid then it's finally time for Blizzard to nerf Force of Nature because it's choking the design space.
Museum Curator: Same deal as above, except even more consistent. In the case of fatigue Priest, it's an advantage that it gives you a new card, rather than draws from the deck. It might not be an auto-include, but again, I'm pointing out cards that certainly deserve a rating of "playable."
Curse of Rafaam: This card will see play for two reasons. First, Reno-lock is a thing now, and running one of these can be justified. Second, it's a hard counter to Ice Block. Generally, it's the right kind of win-more. Let's say you're running zoo and have a decent board by the start of turn 4. Playing this and a 2-drop can be seen as a better play than over-flooding the board with an additional 2-drop or playing a higher cost minion. Your opponent has to keep up with your tempo and eat damage or waste an critical turn.
I actually think this week's assessments were mostly on the mark. Raven Idol might have been a bit low, but we'll get to that in a second.
I think you're overvaluing Animated Armor. When compared against an actual Taunt it's only better in a few very specific situations:- Fatigue, provided you have board control and can guarantee it will stay alive.
- Prior to your opponent playing Alexstraza or a big combo, again provided they don't have board control.
- As a play prior to triggering damage (e.g. Leper Gnomes, Boombots) that might hit your face.
Otherwise it's a weak taunt that doesn't protect your board (and, in some cases, won't even protect you). If this was a Warrior or Warlock card it would be absolutely incredible, but as Mage has neither weapons nor significant self-damage it's ultimately relegated to "something that occasionally comes out of Piloted Sky Golems and ruins your opponent's day".
Raven Idol deserves to be rated higher than 2, but let's be clear about its value. If last week's brawl is any indication "Discover a Minion" is far too vague and volatile to be a reliable effect. 90% of time Raven Idol is going to be used to spend a spare mana fishing for a useful spell since the results there will be far more predictable. That doesn't make it bad, the versatility is real, but I think whether it shows up in a given deck depends on what the deck is trying to accomplish.
I don't care to split hairs over whether Museum Curator deserves "decent" vs "playable". I think the analysis was spot on, and the difference between a 5 and a 6 is small.
Curse of Rafaam is definitely best when you have board control. Otherwise if you aren't presenting a significant threat your opponent can just ignore it because they're killing you faster than it's killing them. It might see some play in Zoo when, as you suggested, it becomes dangerous to over-commit, but I suspect we won't see much of the card.
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I disagree that Rafaam's effect is far better than Ysera's. It only happens once, whereas Ysera tends to stick and give you more than one card.
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Eh, the deathrattle guy that summons 3 2/2's is undervalued. What else does combo druid play on turn 6? Emp? And? It's essentially a super sticky minion that threatens a savage roar lethal if you kill it.
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On December 11 2015 12:17 BlacKcuD wrote:
Curse of Rafaam can be used by Zoo decks to counter one of their weakest matchups: Freeze Mage. The damage triggers on their turn, so Iceblock is neglected and boom mage ded.
I think this is really a new toy for mill decks to help fill up their hand with junk, but I don't play those so I'm probably wrong.
On December 11 2015 16:54 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2015 16:24 Noidberg wrote:
How can Elise be rated so poorly and yet Rafaam is an 8?? Rafaam is a dead card against aggro, its win moreish as you need board for the +10/10 buff and thats after you spent 9 mana playing him. I would rather skip using Rafaam and play Icehowl and i do if i want to deal 10 damage to something. The random 10 damage is still just a worse Avenging Wrath. The only good spell is the mirror and again you're skipping 2 initiative turns by playing him into mummies which is weak to AoE espiecally at those stages of the game.
I can argue that Elise is a superior win condition to Rafaam especially in control vs control matchups. Elise is relevant mid game as a 3/5 which is still fine late game. Getting the monkey is a decent body for cost as essentially a 6/6 for 6 with taunt and the effect of transforming your useless cards in hand to legendary cards is insane. The trick to using the monkey is at fatigue with your hand consisting of cards you wouldnt want to play like acolytes of pain, zombie chows and other combo cards that are no longer useful.
PS. Rafaam is a worse Ysera as well. Weak to Big Game/ Bad body at 8 health to fight against aggro and the 10 mana spells wont save you while awakening can. I pretty much agree with this Elise should be at least like a 4 or 5 possibly higher. It's certainly playable although I feel that its a bit too early to say how good it actually is. I know these are pre rankings But a 2 seems insanely low. I remember Reynad talking about it on stream about how excited he was to use it in priest. I like the idea of Rafaam but I think its just not that great. even in a control matchup I don't think it gives you enough value for 2 full turns worth of doing nothing else. I think you can play elise before super late game if your playing another slow control deck because it just seems to give you so many threats that they can't deal with. just have an established board when you play the golden monkey.
At first I didn't possibly see how Elise could be anything other than a joke/fun card. But then Reno happened. Seems like they'd combo well together and with Justicar some classes are basically immortal so being 'slow' doesn't really matter.
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On December 12 2015 01:43 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 00:42 Firenza wrote:
Cards reviewed in this wing with a rating less than 6 ("Playable") that will absolutely see some degree of competitive play:
Animated Armor: The effect is too powerful not to include in some form of fatigue or Reno mage. It's potentially another Ice Block, preventing the opponent from killing you the next turn because this has to be dealt with first.
Raven Idol: If Jeweled Scarab is good enough for competitive play, then so is this. The flexibility of the Discover cards is proving to be too good to pass up. Play it early, and pick a good card for the early and mid-game. Play it late, and grab a spell or minion that helps shut out the game. Unlike Ethereal Conjurer or Tomb Spider, this isn't a replacement for card draw. Honestly, if this card isn't played because there isn't room for it in double-combo Druid then it's finally time for Blizzard to nerf Force of Nature because it's choking the design space.
Museum Curator: Same deal as above, except even more consistent. In the case of fatigue Priest, it's an advantage that it gives you a new card, rather than draws from the deck. It might not be an auto-include, but again, I'm pointing out cards that certainly deserve a rating of "playable."
Curse of Rafaam: This card will see play for two reasons. First, Reno-lock is a thing now, and running one of these can be justified. Second, it's a hard counter to Ice Block. Generally, it's the right kind of win-more. Let's say you're running zoo and have a decent board by the start of turn 4. Playing this and a 2-drop can be seen as a better play than over-flooding the board with an additional 2-drop or playing a higher cost minion. Your opponent has to keep up with your tempo and eat damage or waste an critical turn. I actually think this week's assessments were mostly on the mark. Raven Idol might have been a bit low, but we'll get to that in a second. I think you're overvaluing Animated Armor. When compared against an actual Taunt it's only better in a few very specific situations: - Fatigue, provided you have board control and can guarantee it will stay alive.
- Prior to your opponent playing Alexstraza or a big combo, again provided they don't have board control.
- As a play prior to triggering damage (e.g. Leper Gnomes, Boombots) that might hit your face.
Otherwise it's a weak taunt that doesn't protect your board (and, in some cases, won't even protect you). If this was a Warrior or Warlock card it would be absolutely incredible, but as Mage has neither weapons nor significant self-damage it's ultimately relegated to "something that occasionally comes out of Piloted Sky Golems and ruins your opponent's day".
You're suggesting the problem with Animated Armor is that it doesn't have taunt, but that's what gives it potential. Next to an actual taunt like Sludge Belcher, it gets protection while also protecting your face. Imagine every time you played a Sludge Belcher against a Hunter, only to die to Kill Command and Steady Shot. If you played Belcher and Armor together, your Hunter friend has some work to do.
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You misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting Animated Armor should have Taunt, I'm suggesting it's worse than a minion with Taunt in the vast majority of situations. The specific scenarios in which it is better than a Taunt are too uncommon to make it worthwhile.
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Arch Thief is overrated by a lot! He is slow as hell and has too much great competition at 9 mana.
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Arch-Thief Rafaam only really makes sense in a deck that makes use of Naga Sea Witch.
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On December 12 2015 03:11 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2015 12:17 BlacKcuD wrote:
Curse of Rafaam can be used by Zoo decks to counter one of their weakest matchups: Freeze Mage. The damage triggers on their turn, so Iceblock is neglected and boom mage ded. I think this is really a new toy for mill decks to help fill up their hand with junk, but I don't play those so I'm probably wrong. Show nested quote +On December 11 2015 16:54 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 11 2015 16:24 Noidberg wrote:
How can Elise be rated so poorly and yet Rafaam is an 8?? Rafaam is a dead card against aggro, its win moreish as you need board for the +10/10 buff and thats after you spent 9 mana playing him. I would rather skip using Rafaam and play Icehowl and i do if i want to deal 10 damage to something. The random 10 damage is still just a worse Avenging Wrath. The only good spell is the mirror and again you're skipping 2 initiative turns by playing him into mummies which is weak to AoE espiecally at those stages of the game.
I can argue that Elise is a superior win condition to Rafaam especially in control vs control matchups. Elise is relevant mid game as a 3/5 which is still fine late game. Getting the monkey is a decent body for cost as essentially a 6/6 for 6 with taunt and the effect of transforming your useless cards in hand to legendary cards is insane. The trick to using the monkey is at fatigue with your hand consisting of cards you wouldnt want to play like acolytes of pain, zombie chows and other combo cards that are no longer useful.
PS. Rafaam is a worse Ysera as well. Weak to Big Game/ Bad body at 8 health to fight against aggro and the 10 mana spells wont save you while awakening can. I pretty much agree with this Elise should be at least like a 4 or 5 possibly higher. It's certainly playable although I feel that its a bit too early to say how good it actually is. I know these are pre rankings But a 2 seems insanely low. I remember Reynad talking about it on stream about how excited he was to use it in priest. I like the idea of Rafaam but I think its just not that great. even in a control matchup I don't think it gives you enough value for 2 full turns worth of doing nothing else. I think you can play elise before super late game if your playing another slow control deck because it just seems to give you so many threats that they can't deal with. just have an established board when you play the golden monkey. At first I didn't possibly see how Elise could be anything other than a joke/fun card. But then Reno happened. Seems like they'd combo well together and with Justicar some classes are basically immortal so being 'slow' doesn't really matter.
Eh Control Warrior has matchups where you routinely get into fatigue situations where you sit on a couple of useless cards near the end . Those you can transform into something that is actually playable you can even cut some of your really highend cards because Elise will probably give you some and just focus on staying alive. Not to mention a 3/5 for 4 is good enough so its not a burden . I mean sure in fast matchups the Monkey won't trigger but whatever you can compensate for that with less highend so your hands are less likely be clunky early.
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Ysera usually only gets to draw one card. Filling your board with zombies is way better than any of them.
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On December 12 2015 07:35 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 03:11 Wuster wrote:On December 11 2015 12:17 BlacKcuD wrote:
Curse of Rafaam can be used by Zoo decks to counter one of their weakest matchups: Freeze Mage. The damage triggers on their turn, so Iceblock is neglected and boom mage ded. I think this is really a new toy for mill decks to help fill up their hand with junk, but I don't play those so I'm probably wrong. On December 11 2015 16:54 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 11 2015 16:24 Noidberg wrote:
How can Elise be rated so poorly and yet Rafaam is an 8?? Rafaam is a dead card against aggro, its win moreish as you need board for the +10/10 buff and thats after you spent 9 mana playing him. I would rather skip using Rafaam and play Icehowl and i do if i want to deal 10 damage to something. The random 10 damage is still just a worse Avenging Wrath. The only good spell is the mirror and again you're skipping 2 initiative turns by playing him into mummies which is weak to AoE espiecally at those stages of the game.
I can argue that Elise is a superior win condition to Rafaam especially in control vs control matchups. Elise is relevant mid game as a 3/5 which is still fine late game. Getting the monkey is a decent body for cost as essentially a 6/6 for 6 with taunt and the effect of transforming your useless cards in hand to legendary cards is insane. The trick to using the monkey is at fatigue with your hand consisting of cards you wouldnt want to play like acolytes of pain, zombie chows and other combo cards that are no longer useful.
PS. Rafaam is a worse Ysera as well. Weak to Big Game/ Bad body at 8 health to fight against aggro and the 10 mana spells wont save you while awakening can. I pretty much agree with this Elise should be at least like a 4 or 5 possibly higher. It's certainly playable although I feel that its a bit too early to say how good it actually is. I know these are pre rankings But a 2 seems insanely low. I remember Reynad talking about it on stream about how excited he was to use it in priest. I like the idea of Rafaam but I think its just not that great. even in a control matchup I don't think it gives you enough value for 2 full turns worth of doing nothing else. I think you can play elise before super late game if your playing another slow control deck because it just seems to give you so many threats that they can't deal with. just have an established board when you play the golden monkey. At first I didn't possibly see how Elise could be anything other than a joke/fun card. But then Reno happened. Seems like they'd combo well together and with Justicar some classes are basically immortal so being 'slow' doesn't really matter. Eh Control Warrior has matchups where you routinely get into fatigue situations where you sit on a couple of useless cards near the end . Those you can transform into something that is actually playable you can even cut some of your really highend cards because Elise will probably give you some and just focus on staying alive. Not to mention a 3/5 for 4 is good enough so its not a burden . I mean sure in fast matchups the Monkey won't trigger but whatever you can compensate for that with less highend so your hands are less likely be clunky early.
We're actually in agreement here.
I think Elise can potentially work now since we have Reno and Justicar who both allow the game to go much longer than ever before. So you have plenty of time to sift through your deck twice (for Map of the Golden Monkey and then the Golden Monkey itself) *and* time to sort out the situational cards you want to transform.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
So Animated Armor doesn't work with Ice Block. There goes the hype around that card...
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On December 12 2015 21:19 Drazerk wrote:
So Animated Armor doesn't work with Ice Block. There goes the hype around that card...
Isn't it the same interaction as Bolf? If Ice Block was up first it procs on lethal damage even though Bolf is up. I assume you'd need to have Animated Armor in play before Ice Block (which makes it pretty garbage yes).
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On December 13 2015 01:44 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 21:19 Drazerk wrote:
So Animated Armor doesn't work with Ice Block. There goes the hype around that card... Isn't it the same interaction as Bolf? If Ice Block was up first it procs on lethal damage even though Bolf is up. I assume you'd need to have Animated Armor in play before Ice Block (which makes it pretty garbage yes).
After testing yes it works like this so yeah its pretty garbage either way because lol at having a Animated Armor up for longer than your Ice Block
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It doesn't strike me as the kind of card you use with Ice Block anyway. Decks that use Ice Block use it because they have some play that takes a full turn of set up, as a method of insurance. Being a minion with a 4/4 body, you'd be crazy to think you could use it the same way. I'm experimenting with it in a control mage, that looks to get lots of value out of cards like Duplicate and Effigy. It's quite common to get extra Sludge Belchers, which is perfect for hiding the Animated Armor, to shield against burst damage. If anything, that's the kind of deck that will get the most out of it, as it's a deck that can have trouble staying alive sometimes. It gained a boost with the add of Brann Bronzebeard, for a heal of 16 with thr Healbot, and the Armor is an extra way to shore up your life total.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
BTW Guys just a notice -
Using Curse of Rafaam + Nozdormu automatically wins you the game.
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i'm surprised no one has said this is the worst review they've ever seen, because it is. museum curator 5? there are soooo many good deathrattles. many of them legend. raven idol seems underwhelming in a vacuum, but in practice it's actually pretty good. way better than a 2. cursed blade, curse of rafaam and eerie statue all got too high of scores as well, by at least 2. i guess it's pretty obvious that these are being rated for their constructed uses, but a lot of these cards are better in arena. there should be mention of that imo.
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On December 21 2015 00:05 bevrosity wrote:
i'm surprised no one has said this is the worst review they've ever seen, because it is. museum curator 5? there are soooo many good deathrattles. many of them legend. raven idol seems underwhelming in a vacuum, but in practice it's actually pretty good. way better than a 2. cursed blade, curse of rafaam and eerie statue all got too high of scores as well, by at least 2. i guess it's pretty obvious that these are being rated for their constructed uses, but a lot of these cards are better in arena. there should be mention of that imo.
All of these have been quite terrible. Just goes to show how difficult predictions like these are. But there were some flat out bad estimates too. Reno Jackson is a gimmick that won't see play? Yeah ok.
I still like to read through these since it makes you think what's actually good and what kinds of decks they might fit in. That part of the reviews has been ok. I like the Wailing Soul druid idea for example.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On December 21 2015 00:05 bevrosity wrote:
i'm surprised no one has said this is the worst review they've ever seen, because it is. museum curator 5? there are soooo many good deathrattles. many of them legend. raven idol seems underwhelming in a vacuum, but in practice it's actually pretty good. way better than a 2. cursed blade, curse of rafaam and eerie statue all got too high of scores as well, by at least 2. i guess it's pretty obvious that these are being rated for their constructed uses, but a lot of these cards are better in arena. there should be mention of that imo.
These are focused on constructed
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On December 21 2015 02:14 d00p wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 00:05 bevrosity wrote:
i'm surprised no one has said this is the worst review they've ever seen, because it is. museum curator 5? there are soooo many good deathrattles. many of them legend. raven idol seems underwhelming in a vacuum, but in practice it's actually pretty good. way better than a 2. cursed blade, curse of rafaam and eerie statue all got too high of scores as well, by at least 2. i guess it's pretty obvious that these are being rated for their constructed uses, but a lot of these cards are better in arena. there should be mention of that imo.
All of these have been quite terrible. Just goes to show how difficult predictions like these are. But there were some flat out bad estimates too. Reno Jackson is a gimmick that won't see play? Yeah ok. I still like to read through these since it makes you think what's actually good and what kinds of decks they might fit in. That part of the reviews has been ok. I like the Wailing Soul druid idea for example.
I mean that's just how it goes. Look back at TGT people slammed the reviews as being too narrow-minded, while simultaneously slamming Mysterious Challenger being the highest rated card. Even the people criticizing the reviews were completely wrong.
I think Wailing Soul Druid is a viable deck, no? It was on the last Tempo Storm meta snapshot as a low-tier legend deck iirc. Hasn't risen much past that, but the old archetype got quite a buff from this expansion, looks like it's someone to keep an eye on like Dragon Priest was pre-TGT (I suppose you can throw in Murloc Shaman, Dragon Pally as archetypes to watch too).
Edit: I'm thinking Egg Druid, but Silence Druid always pops up on Hearthpwn with a legend screenshot post-expansion, so I think my main point stands.
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