Hello everyone and welcome to the League of Explorers card reviews. This will follow a similar format to the TGT card review where myself and a few other high-level players gave our initial takes on each card. We have changed our rating system somewhat after the feedback we got during TGT to hopefully make it more clear.
1=Unplayable
2=Almost certainly unplayable
3=Bad
4=Meh
5=Decent
6=Playable
7=Good
8=Very Good
9=Extremely Good
10=Overpowered
While this scale is far from ideal -- and still somewhat subjective -- it allows us to differentiate more between low-quality cards than the previous scale and it makes it more clear just what a certain rating means. As a result, our average ratings are a lot higher than in TGT. Having said that, we are a lot more optimistic about this incoming set than about TGT so even if we would be using the old rating system, the average rating would still be higher. We are also no longer use the ‘’possible rating’’ we used in TGT because we have already seen all the cards coming out. This set of cards is less combo-oriented than the Inspire effects of TGT.
If we were to rate the different wings based on which ones you should buy if you are on a budget, this one is absolutely the best. It introduces some of the best cards in the set through Keeper of Uldaman, Mounted Raptor, Unearthed Raptor and Tunnel Trogg. All of these cards have the ability to strongly affect and shift the meta so there will be a lot of experimentation being done.
This card just has all around poor stats -- 3/4 is the benchmark for three-drops nowadays -- and the effect suffers from significant diminishing returns. Most Battlecries aren’t really giving you extra benefit if they are triggered twice. That said, there is some excitement around this card. For a full list of meta cards which activate this card see this list.
Playable In
Current Rating: 4
Ethereal Conjurer
The closest comparison for this card is Azure Drake but with a slightly different stat budget and no Spell Power. Generally speaking, three health is bad because there are so many two mana spells that deal three damage. Even if Discover turns out to be significantly better than draw, the lack of Spell Power will still probably make this creature worse than Azure Drake.
Playable In
Current Rating: 4
Excavated Evil
This card is in the same slot as Holy Nova and we honestly wonder if this card isn’t simply worse than Holy Nova: the healing that Holy Nova provides is very frequently used and can't be undersold. This is ignoring the fact that it also gives your enemy a board clear, which is generally strong against Priests because they rely on board control.
Playable In
Current Rating: 4
Fierce Monkey
While this card looks really good on paper -- he is after all a Silverback Patriarch on steroids -- in reality there are no current Warrior decks that would want to run this card. A new more midrange Warrior would have to appear for this card to become played.
Playable In
Midrange Paladin Current Rating: 8
Keeper of Uldaman
This card is also up for best card in the set since it can be used to buff your own tokens or bring a big enemy to a much more manageable size. In a way, this card works similar to the pre-nerf Tinkmaster Overspark only much less random. Tinkmaster also suffered -1/-2 stats for its effect compared to the stats of a normal minion at three mana, this card only gets -1/-1 as compared to a yeti. If you combine this with the fact that 3/4 in stats are really good, this card is shaping itself up for awesomeness all around. The only downside of this card is that it crowds the already busy four-slot for Paladins with Shredder and Truesilver -- both of which really can’t be cut -- so having six turn four plays might be too much.
Playable In
Aggro Druid Midrange Druid Current Rating: 7
Mounted Raptor
This card is a superior version of Harvest Golem: a 3/2 is better than 2/3 because it trades with Shredder the next turn. The Deathrattle is equal or slightly worse than that of Harvest Golem but some one drops can completely blow your opponent out of the water such as Injured Kvaldir and Dust Devil. To make up for those, however, there are plenty of 1/1 and 1/2s that are strictly worse. Also Druid doesn’t currently have any other 3-drop -- besides Shade of Naxxramas -- which has already been cut in some Druid lists.
Playable In
Current Rating: 1
Reliquary Seeker
We have no idea what Blizzard was thinking with designing this card as it's just never going to trigger. Gormokk the Impaler -- which same some play during TGT and was rated well by some card reviews -- saw very little play after being tried out for a while because the effect is just too inconsistent.
Playable In
Beast Hunter Current Rating: 4
Tomb Spider
This is essentially a worse version of the Gorillabot: it has a worse stat point and generally speaking beasts have fewer good cards so there is a smaller chance to get something good from this guy.
Playable In
Midrange Shaman Current Rating: 7
Tunnel Trogg
With this card, and the many other low-mana Shaman cards introduced in TGT, Blizzard really seems to be making an effort to give the Shaman early game some much needed boost. Cards with 1/3 for one mana are generally extremely strong in the proper archetype -- see Voidwalker and Mana Wyrm -- so this guy will probably fit in there just fine as well. Another reason why 1/3’s are becoming more powerful is that we are gradually seeing 3/2s fall off in favor of 2/3 two-drops.
The effect looks nice but in reality it will probably not be strong enough to build a full overload deck off of. That said, it can still be nice to play this and then get the +2 attack from Feral Spirits on turn three or +1 from a Totem Golem. Where this card is a significant step-up from the other one mana 1/3’s is that this card is also quite good in the late game. There are plenty of Shaman cards with two overload that can be nicely combo’d with this Tunnel Trogg to create a pretty decent 3/3 creature. With the addition of Desert Camel, people will start running both Tunnel Trogg and Zombie Chow.
The question will be whether this effect will double dip: the wording would suggest that if you play Tunnel Trogg into a turn two Totem Golem and turn three Totem Golem, since you have two locked mana crystals on turn three, you might get a total of +3 attack for two overloads paid. Overall will this card be enough to bring Shaman back? Probably not but it will go some way to make the deck more competitive.
Playable In
Tempo Rogue Current Rating: 8
Unearthed Raptor
This one is another of the top cards released in this set and it might be enough to turn Tempo Rogue into something viable. While this card looks really win-more on paper, its stats are still really strong. Even if this cards gets the Haunted Creeper Deathrattle it is already absurd value. Alternatively, you can play turn two Nerubian Egg into this since Rogue has plenty of ways activate eggs.
Unearthed Raptor just screams value and stickiness. The question is if this -- and some of the other cards introduced in TGT -- are enough to make a tempo-style Rogue viable again since this card won’t fit in the current oil rogue.
Thanks everyone for your time and if you have any questions/comments feel free to ask and we hope to see you again for the next evaluation of a batch of cards.
Daisyx is the most prolific writer on Liquidhearth and you can follow him here:
Brann is probably gonna be really good. Expecting it to bring up some new decks. It might not fit in current decks, but I have no doubt it will be good in some new decks. I'd rate it 7-10 for that reason, though it's just a prediction. I think there are plenty really good battlecries.
On November 19 2015 00:40 HolydaKing wrote: Brann is probably gonna be really good. Expecting it to bring up some new decks. It might not fit in current decks, but I have no doubt it will be good in some new decks. I'd rate it 7-10 for that reason, though it's just a prediction. I think there are plenty really good battlecries.
What you need to keep in mind though is that the card itself probably wont live longer than 1 turn so you need to combo it with a battlecry. Also just because your battlecry works twice doesn't actually mean that it will be twice as good since quite a lot of time a part of the extra effect will be redundant.
Hoping Raptor Rogue becomes a thing, I think it will hinge on whether nerubian egg can be activated easily without adding in too many cards that only benefit the egg. Brann looks pretty good in warlock and priest decks the double stat gain on the dragon cards with Brann seems pretty powerful.
Keeper and mounted raptor seem a little overhyped to me keeper is a 4 drop that I think is too slow for secret and in midrange is competing against murloc knight, shredder, consec, truesilver and does similar things to quartermaster/aldor/equality/bgh maybe you use 1 for a reno jackson version though. Raptor is on average a 3/2 + 1.5/1.5, I don't think its that great apart from the blowout flame imp/kvaldir drops.
On November 19 2015 00:57 Zaros wrote: Keeper and mounted raptor seem a little overhyped to me keeper is a 4 drop that I think is too slow for secret and in midrange is competing against murloc knight, shredder, consec, truesilver and does similar things to quartermaster/aldor/equality/bgh maybe you use 1 for a reno jackson version though. Raptor is on average a 3/2 + 1.5/1.5, I don't think its that great apart from the blowout flame imp/kvaldir drops.
What I like about Raptor is how he slots into Midrange Druid. Shade of Naxxramas really isn't great right now since the meta is so aggressive but he's the best three to you have. Raptor gives a more active tool for games without Wild Growth or Aspirant.
I think you missed the mark on Brann! That card will be bonkers in mill rogue, possibly bringing the deck high on the tier list! Brann+Healbot, Brann+SI7 and not the least Brann+Coldlight, combining them with gang ups and shadowstep... sounds like a serious boost to the archetype!
On November 19 2015 01:12 Slydie wrote: I think you missed the mark on Brann! That card will be bonkers in mill rogue, possibly bringing the deck high on the tier list! Brann+Healbot, and Brann+Coldlight, combining them with gang ups and shadowstep... sounds like a serious boost to the archetype!
Okay I love mill. I think most people understand that. But even I know that Mill will never have a place on the hearthstone ladder due to how many aggressive decks are run. Brann + Coldlight still isn't enough to keep us alive and its not like you can use Reno either
That said both Djinn and Brann are huge buffs to mill so who knows
Keeper should be ok but : << In a way, this card works similar to the pre-nerf Tinkmaster Overspark only much less random >> That is not exactly true, one big advantage of Tinkermaster was the fact it would silence the target (at the time, Sylvanas, Cairn, Ragnaros, etc.)...
On November 19 2015 01:12 Slydie wrote: I think you missed the mark on Brann! That card will be bonkers in mill rogue, possibly bringing the deck high on the tier list! Brann+Healbot, Brann+SI7 and not the least Brann+Coldlight, combining them with gang ups and shadowstep... sounds like a serious boost to the archetype!
Brann + SI7 does not work, it's a combo not a battlecry.
On November 19 2015 01:46 Daisyx wrote: Yep, combo effects don't work as far as I know ( could be wrong, this is the first battlecry modificator).
Also I agree that brann will be cool in mill decks, just not sure how viable that is in the long run.
Also yea I agree that it lacks the silence of pre-nerf tinkmaster, but it adds a lot more consistency and a lot better stat budget
Like 90% sure I read a tweet saying Combos aren't effected unless its like Perdition's Blade where the Combo modifies the Battlecry which only really effects Perdition's Blade anyway...
On November 19 2015 01:46 Daisyx wrote: Yep, combo effects don't work as far as I know ( could be wrong, this is the first battlecry modificator).
This is the first battlecry modifier, but we do have Nerub'ar Weblord. Since it does not increase the casting cost of SI and other combo minions, I think that pretty much confirms that combo =/= battlecry.
My bad on SI7, did not do proper research. Especially since I have already been annoyed a lot of other misinterpretations of the card (bgh, faceless, choose-one etc.)
However, not even mentioning mill decks in the OP is worse imo! The other 4 mill-synergies (healbot, coldlight, gang-up, shadowstep) are still very strong!
Having played Mill Rogue for a little bit I will say that it is EXTREMELY draw dependent in that there are some cards you absolutely have to draw in order to stand a chance in certain match ups (healbot and deathlord vs. aggro, coldlight vs. anything, etc.), and adding extra card draw to make the deck more consistent has two problems...
1) Given the deck aims to mill both of you quickly, it's hurting yourself in the long run 2) If you end up drawing your key cards early, the rest of the card draw cards are weak and redundant
More than anything else, I think this is the main issue holding back the deck. The answers and win conditions that are in there are fantastic when you draw them; it's just not consistent, and there's no way to make it consistent without making it very weak. Brann would function as a win-more card in this deck; it makes your win-cons even more powerful, but honestly weak win-cons aren't the issue. What the deck needs are cards like Tracking.
On November 19 2015 03:01 Ryzel wrote: Having played Mill Rogue for a little bit I will say that it is EXTREMELY draw dependent in that there are some cards you absolutely have to draw in order to stand a chance in certain match ups (healbot and deathlord vs. aggro, coldlight vs. anything, etc.), and adding extra card draw to make the deck more consistent has two problems...
1) Given the deck aims to mill both of you quickly, it's hurting yourself in the long run 2) If you end up drawing your key cards early, the rest of the card draw cards are weak and redundant
More than anything else, I think this is the main issue holding back the deck. The answers and win conditions that are in there are fantastic when you draw them; it's just not consistent, and there's no way to make it consistent without making it very weak. Brann would function as a win-more card in this deck; it makes your win-cons even more powerful, but honestly weak win-cons aren't the issue. What the deck needs are cards like Tracking.
Djinn actually fixes issue 1 since you get 6 cards per gang up rather than 3 making your deck last much longer really we just need more mill cards in the game to solve the inconsistency issue. Another card like Coldlight Oracle / Gang Up would be huge
On November 19 2015 00:57 Zaros wrote: Hoping Raptor Rogue becomes a thing, I think it will hinge on whether nerubian egg can be activated easily without adding in too many cards that only benefit the egg. Brann looks pretty good in warlock and priest decks the double stat gain on the dragon cards with Brann seems pretty powerful.
Keeper and mounted raptor seem a little overhyped to me keeper is a 4 drop that I think is too slow for secret and in midrange is competing against murloc knight, shredder, consec, truesilver and does similar things to quartermaster/aldor/equality/bgh maybe you use 1 for a reno jackson version though.
Consecration and Murloc Knight aren't really 4-drops, in that you don't usually want to play them on curve. Consec is an answer and MK is effectively a 6-drop.
For the card itself, I think youre underestimating how strong the effect is. Use it on a Recruit and its 5/6 worth of stats for 4 mana. Used on a big enemy minion it both deals damage and reduces attack.
The strength of Raptor is that its a sticky minion with competitive stats, which is really good in a deck that runs Savage Roar.
I foresee many Savannah Highmane draws off of Tomb Spider. Aren't class cards more likely to be discovered by 4x or so? That would at least make the Tomb Spider differ greatly depending on your class.
On November 19 2015 03:01 Ryzel wrote: Having played Mill Rogue for a little bit I will say that it is EXTREMELY draw dependent in that there are some cards you absolutely have to draw in order to stand a chance in certain match ups (healbot and deathlord vs. aggro, coldlight vs. anything, etc.), and adding extra card draw to make the deck more consistent has two problems...
1) Given the deck aims to mill both of you quickly, it's hurting yourself in the long run 2) If you end up drawing your key cards early, the rest of the card draw cards are weak and redundant
More than anything else, I think this is the main issue holding back the deck. The answers and win conditions that are in there are fantastic when you draw them; it's just not consistent, and there's no way to make it consistent without making it very weak. Brann would function as a win-more card in this deck; it makes your win-cons even more powerful, but honestly weak win-cons aren't the issue. What the deck needs are cards like Tracking.
Djinn actually fixes issue 1 since you get 6 cards per gang up rather than 3 making your deck last much longer really we just need more mill cards in the game to solve the inconsistency issue. Another card like Coldlight Oracle / Gang Up would be huge
I'm very sure that Djinn will not work in mill rogue. Since you don't give your minions stealth, you have to play Coldlight Oracle + Djinn + Gang Up, which is very expensive and even more draw dependent. Also, every Djinn drawn after the first is very close to a dead draw.
On November 19 2015 00:40 HolydaKing wrote: Brann is probably gonna be really good. Expecting it to bring up some new decks. It might not fit in current decks, but I have no doubt it will be good in some new decks. I'd rate it 7-10 for that reason, though it's just a prediction. I think there are plenty really good battlecries.
What you need to keep in mind though is that the card itself probably wont live longer than 1 turn so you need to combo it with a battlecry. Also just because your battlecry works twice doesn't actually mean that it will be twice as good since quite a lot of time a part of the extra effect will be redundant.
It's a good point, he definitely should not be looked at as a 3 drop. There's also a point to be made that as a one-of you can't rely on drawing him, so for aggressive/mid-range decks he's not great.
That said I think 4 is a little low. Even if some battlecries aren't going to be twice as good (e.g. Wyrmrest Agent or Twilight Guardian) decks that run a lot of battlecries have the potential to make good use of him (Dragon Priest being the most obvious). 5-6 seems reasonable.
All your other ratings are spot on. The cards you've cited as good are absolutely good, and outside of the laughably awful Reliquary Seeker none of the other cards are bad, just meh. We might both be overly hopeful about Unearthed Raptor.
On November 19 2015 03:01 Ryzel wrote: Having played Mill Rogue for a little bit I will say that it is EXTREMELY draw dependent in that there are some cards you absolutely have to draw in order to stand a chance in certain match ups (healbot and deathlord vs. aggro, coldlight vs. anything, etc.), and adding extra card draw to make the deck more consistent has two problems...
1) Given the deck aims to mill both of you quickly, it's hurting yourself in the long run 2) If you end up drawing your key cards early, the rest of the card draw cards are weak and redundant
More than anything else, I think this is the main issue holding back the deck. The answers and win conditions that are in there are fantastic when you draw them; it's just not consistent, and there's no way to make it consistent without making it very weak. Brann would function as a win-more card in this deck; it makes your win-cons even more powerful, but honestly weak win-cons aren't the issue. What the deck needs are cards like Tracking.
Djinn actually fixes issue 1 since you get 6 cards per gang up rather than 3 making your deck last much longer really we just need more mill cards in the game to solve the inconsistency issue. Another card like Coldlight Oracle / Gang Up would be huge
I'm very sure that Djinn will not work in mill rogue. Since you don't give your minions stealth, you have to play Coldlight Oracle + Djinn + Gang Up, which is very expensive and even more draw dependent. Also, every Djinn drawn after the first is very close to a dead draw.
Djinni offers fatigue management. I don't play Mill enough to know if it's worth it, but with Djinni you can afford to slot in more card draw (consistency) without worrying about fatiguing yourself.
On November 19 2015 02:30 Slydie wrote: My bad on SI7, did not do proper research. Especially since I have already been annoyed a lot of other misinterpretations of the card (bgh, faceless, choose-one etc.)
However, not even mentioning mill decks in the OP is worse imo! The other 4 mill-synergies (healbot, coldlight, gang-up, shadowstep) are still very strong!
Brann might even make Dark Iron Skulker a thing. Although it would take 8 Mana, Brann to live a turn or some kind of Mana reductions.
On November 19 2015 02:30 Slydie wrote: My bad on SI7, did not do proper research. Especially since I have already been annoyed a lot of other misinterpretations of the card (bgh, faceless, choose-one etc.)
However, not even mentioning mill decks in the OP is worse imo! The other 4 mill-synergies (healbot, coldlight, gang-up, shadowstep) are still very strong!
Brann might even make Dark Iron Skulker a thing. Although it would take 8 Mana, Brann to live a turn or some kind of Mana reductions.
Brann might not work with Skulker, depending on how Brann works it might do 2 damage to everything undamaged and afterwards try to do 2 damage again but everything will be damaged then so it won't do anything on the 2nd activation.
On November 19 2015 00:40 HolydaKing wrote: Brann is probably gonna be really good. Expecting it to bring up some new decks. It might not fit in current decks, but I have no doubt it will be good in some new decks. I'd rate it 7-10 for that reason, though it's just a prediction. I think there are plenty really good battlecries.
What you need to keep in mind though is that the card itself probably wont live longer than 1 turn so you need to combo it with a battlecry. Also just because your battlecry works twice doesn't actually mean that it will be twice as good since quite a lot of time a part of the extra effect will be redundant.
It's a good point, he definitely should not be looked at as a 3 drop. There's also a point to be made that as a one-of you can't rely on drawing him, so for aggressive/mid-range decks he's not great.
That said I think 4 is a little low. Even if some battlecries aren't going to be twice as good (e.g. Wyrmrest Agent or Twilight Guardian) decks that run a lot of battlecries have the potential to make good use of him (Dragon Priest being the most obvious). 5-6 seems reasonable.
All your other ratings are spot on. The cards you've cited as good are absolutely good, and outside of the laughably awful Reliquary Seeker none of the other cards are bad, just meh. We might both be overly hopeful about Unearthed Raptor.
On November 19 2015 03:01 Ryzel wrote: Having played Mill Rogue for a little bit I will say that it is EXTREMELY draw dependent in that there are some cards you absolutely have to draw in order to stand a chance in certain match ups (healbot and deathlord vs. aggro, coldlight vs. anything, etc.), and adding extra card draw to make the deck more consistent has two problems...
1) Given the deck aims to mill both of you quickly, it's hurting yourself in the long run 2) If you end up drawing your key cards early, the rest of the card draw cards are weak and redundant
More than anything else, I think this is the main issue holding back the deck. The answers and win conditions that are in there are fantastic when you draw them; it's just not consistent, and there's no way to make it consistent without making it very weak. Brann would function as a win-more card in this deck; it makes your win-cons even more powerful, but honestly weak win-cons aren't the issue. What the deck needs are cards like Tracking.
Djinn actually fixes issue 1 since you get 6 cards per gang up rather than 3 making your deck last much longer really we just need more mill cards in the game to solve the inconsistency issue. Another card like Coldlight Oracle / Gang Up would be huge
I'm very sure that Djinn will not work in mill rogue. Since you don't give your minions stealth, you have to play Coldlight Oracle + Djinn + Gang Up, which is very expensive and even more draw dependent. Also, every Djinn drawn after the first is very close to a dead draw.
Djinni offers fatigue management. I don't play Mill enough to know if it's worth it, but with Djinni you can afford to slot in more card draw (consistency) without worrying about fatiguing yourself.
I feels like Brann is more of a late-game card to boost those early game battle cry effects that often end up as dead cards.
Something like using an Abusive Sergeant to clear a large minion or the aforementioned DragonPriest cards. Giving them more stats in the late game helps since they kind of suck off curve (also, Blackwing Technician is now a 4/6 which is passable late game).
Not to mention just using him for draw, Brann + Novice Engineer in a control deck maybe?
I'm pretty hyped for Unearthed Raptor too, I think it's battlecry stays relevant all game long, so missing it doesn't hurt. I mean who wouldn't want Sylvanas' or Tirion's deathrattle?
If there's a place for Reno in the right deck, there's a place for Brann. These reviews completely missed the mark on Reno last week. That guy is giving me a lot of headaches on ladder now.
Discover was also completely underestimated by everyone. Jeweled Scarab and Dark Peddler are more than playable. I expect Ethereal Conjurer and Tomb Spider to be as well. A lot Azure Drakes trade 1 for 1 and are simply played for the card draw. If your opponent uses a cheap spell or cheap minion they are still down a card same as you, and you likely have an excellent, contextually relevant spell with the right mana cost without putting you closer to fatigue (damn you Reno Jackson!).
I'd like to apologize for last week, I tried out a Hunter Hat deck and while its not...that bad its definitely not gonna be played much. Back to face...sigh. You were basically right but the Hat wasn't a 2 or 3 maybe a 4 or 5. IMHO
Brann combos with so much stuff its crazy. Paladin is going to be so broken its retarded, they can have two potential 14 life combos, +2/2 to every token, two divine shielded taunts, I mean WTF.
Shaman is getting buffed huge I am so happy for them, even their useless legendary is possibly a include in certain decks like Shaman Battlecry+Overload I am already brewing up in my head.
Ethereal Conjurer is going to be good, calling it now. Way better than a 4. It's Discover a spell, so there are no neutral cards to muddle the card pool, it's all Mage spells, many of which are very, very powerful. Your odds of getting an extra Fireball, Frostbolt, Blizzard, or Flamestrike are quite high, and even spells like Flame Lance and Cone of Cold are solid in the right spot. Most importantly, it's an extra copy, so if you land that Flamestrike then you've got 3 total. Not only great for the Mage player, but also this adds more depth to the card-counting to be done. Also the 6/3 body puts it in with Justicar Trueheart, which survives to hit something more times than you'd think. After all, you play it for that battlecry.
Also, when talking about cards like Unearthed Raptor, it doesn't really help to talk about how it doesn't fit into existing decks. Doesn't fit into Oil Rogue, eh, that much was obvious just looking at it. You'd be silly to mark it down for that, but if you're not going to then I don't know why you'd mention it.
On November 19 2015 03:01 Ryzel wrote: Having played Mill Rogue for a little bit I will say that it is EXTREMELY draw dependent in that there are some cards you absolutely have to draw in order to stand a chance in certain match ups (healbot and deathlord vs. aggro, coldlight vs. anything, etc.), and adding extra card draw to make the deck more consistent has two problems...
1) Given the deck aims to mill both of you quickly, it's hurting yourself in the long run 2) If you end up drawing your key cards early, the rest of the card draw cards are weak and redundant
More than anything else, I think this is the main issue holding back the deck. The answers and win conditions that are in there are fantastic when you draw them; it's just not consistent, and there's no way to make it consistent without making it very weak. Brann would function as a win-more card in this deck; it makes your win-cons even more powerful, but honestly weak win-cons aren't the issue. What the deck needs are cards like Tracking.
Djinn actually fixes issue 1 since you get 6 cards per gang up rather than 3 making your deck last much longer really we just need more mill cards in the game to solve the inconsistency issue. Another card like Coldlight Oracle / Gang Up would be huge
Burgle can be pretty useful in this regard, though totally not enough. It would also be useful if Beneath the Grounds actually worked in Mill, rather than the Ambushes getting burned like, every. single. time.
Reliquary Seeker - We have no idea what Blizzard was thinking with designing this card as it's just never going to trigger.
Surely it's just another tool for Dreadsteed decks?
Unearthed Raptor - you can play turn two Nerubian Egg into this since Rogue has plenty of ways activate eggs.
Am I missing something? Cold Blood and unreliable Oil procs - is there anything else? Surely you're not implying that I should be backstabbing my own egg?!
On November 19 2015 15:57 NewSunshine wrote: Ethereal Conjurer is going to be good, calling it now. Way better than a 4. It's Discover a spell, so there are no neutral cards to muddle the card pool, it's all Mage spells, many of which are very, very powerful. Your odds of getting an extra Fireball, Frostbolt, Blizzard, or Flamestrike are quite high, and even spells like Flame Lance and Cone of Cold are solid in the right spot. Most importantly, it's an extra copy, so if you land that Flamestrike then you've got 3 total. Not only great for the Mage player, but also this adds more depth to the card-counting to be done. Also the 6/3 body puts it in with Justicar Trueheart, which survives to hit something more times than you'd think. After all, you play it for that battlecry.
Also, when talking about cards like Unearthed Raptor, it doesn't really help to talk about how it doesn't fit into existing decks. Doesn't fit into Oil Rogue, eh, that much was obvious just looking at it. You'd be silly to mark it down for that, but if you're not going to then I don't know why you'd mention it.
Oh god. Freeze mage with quadruple Ice Block. By the way the Fierce Monkey might be enough to push a taunt-heavy Warrior into existence.
On November 19 2015 14:24 Firenza wrote: If there's a place for Reno in the right deck, there's a place for Brann. These reviews completely missed the mark on Reno last week. That guy is giving me a lot of headaches on ladder now.
Discover was also completely underestimated by everyone. Jeweled Scarab and Dark Peddler are more than playable. I expect Ethereal Conjurer and Tomb Spider to be as well. A lot Azure Drakes trade 1 for 1 and are simply played for the card draw. If your opponent uses a cheap spell or cheap minion they are still down a card same as you, and you likely have an excellent, contextually relevant spell with the right mana cost without putting you closer to fatigue (damn you Reno Jackson!).
I'd argue Reno Jackson's effect is a lot stronger than Brann's. Not many battlecries can measure up to almost doubling the health your opponent has to get through. We'll have to see how easy he is to abuse in practice, but realistically he's only going to double one or two battlecries.
Brann combos with so much stuff its crazy. Paladin is going to be so broken its retarded, they can have two potential 14 life combos, +2/2 to every token, two divine shielded taunts, I mean WTF.
Unfortunately, you can't put 2x divine shield on the same minion
Unearthed Raptor - you can play turn two Nerubian Egg into this since Rogue has plenty of ways activate eggs.
Am I missing something? Cold Blood and unreliable Oil procs - is there anything else? Surely you're not implying that I should be backstabbing my own egg?!
True, but a tempo rogue will most likely run abusive sergeant or even dark iron as well
Reliquary Seeker - We have no idea what Blizzard was thinking with designing this card as it's just never going to trigger.
Surely it's just another tool for Dreadsteed decks?
Unearthed Raptor - you can play turn two Nerubian Egg into this since Rogue has plenty of ways activate eggs.
Am I missing something? Cold Blood and unreliable Oil procs - is there anything else? Surely you're not implying that I should be backstabbing my own egg?!
True, but a tempo rogue will most likely run abusive sergeant or even dark iron as well
Defender of Argus is also an option. In a deck that is actively encouraged to run low mana deathrattles it's probably not the worst.
Brann combos with so much stuff its crazy. Paladin is going to be so broken its retarded, they can have two potential 14 life combos, +2/2 to every token, two divine shielded taunts, I mean WTF.
Unfortunately, you can't put 2x divine shield on the same minion
He's talking about Coghammer, not Argent Protector. It triggers randomly so could easily hit twice.
Reliquary Seeker - We have no idea what Blizzard was thinking with designing this card as it's just never going to trigger.
Surely it's just another tool for Dreadsteed decks?
Unearthed Raptor - you can play turn two Nerubian Egg into this since Rogue has plenty of ways activate eggs.
Am I missing something? Cold Blood and unreliable Oil procs - is there anything else? Surely you're not implying that I should be backstabbing my own egg?!
True, but a tempo rogue will most likely run abusive sergeant or even dark iron as well
Haha, so the more accurate way of writing that line in the article would have been...
"Warlock and Shaman have plenty of ways to activate eggs. Rogue doesn't, and will have to rely on other neutral minions to make the card work".
Or alternatively, how about...
"Rogue has no good ways of activating eggs so you're probably better off just running creeper instead".
I totally get that a tempo Rogue could work, but cards like Nerubian Egg are inherently better in Shaman and Warlock for obvious reasons. It seems a real stretch to have to run 2x Cold Blood, 2x Abusive Sergeant and 2x Dark Iron Dwarf just to give my 3 drop a good target.
On November 19 2015 14:24 Firenza wrote: If there's a place for Reno in the right deck, there's a place for Brann. These reviews completely missed the mark on Reno last week. That guy is giving me a lot of headaches on ladder now.
Discover was also completely underestimated by everyone. Jeweled Scarab and Dark Peddler are more than playable. I expect Ethereal Conjurer and Tomb Spider to be as well. A lot Azure Drakes trade 1 for 1 and are simply played for the card draw. If your opponent uses a cheap spell or cheap minion they are still down a card same as you, and you likely have an excellent, contextually relevant spell with the right mana cost without putting you closer to fatigue (damn you Reno Jackson!).
I'd argue Reno Jackson's effect is a lot stronger than Brann's. Not many battlecries can measure up to almost doubling the health your opponent has to get through. We'll have to see how easy he is to abuse in practice, but realistically he's only going to double one or two battlecries.
Doubling one or two good battlecries is all he really needs to do to be good. Plus he effectively has Taunt since your opponent cannot afford to leave him alive. He may not have Reno's ridiculously strong effect, but he also doesn't have deck-changing drawbacks.
That said, the good battlecries have mostly been sussed out already and don't necessarily fit in the same deck, so Brann probably isn't going to spawn new deck archetypes. He might push some existing archetypes toward more battlecries, but his impact is going to be fundamentally different from Reno.
Reliquary Seeker - We have no idea what Blizzard was thinking with designing this card as it's just never going to trigger.
Surely it's just another tool for Dreadsteed decks?
Unearthed Raptor - you can play turn two Nerubian Egg into this since Rogue has plenty of ways activate eggs.
Am I missing something? Cold Blood and unreliable Oil procs - is there anything else? Surely you're not implying that I should be backstabbing my own egg?!
True, but a tempo rogue will most likely run abusive sergeant or even dark iron as well
Haha, so the more accurate way of writing that line in the article would have been...
"Warlock and Shaman have plenty of ways to activate eggs. Rogue doesn't, and will have to rely on other neutral minions to make the card work".
Or alternatively, how about...
"Rogue has no good ways of activating eggs so you're probably better off just running creeper instead".
I totally get that a tempo Rogue could work, but cards like Nerubian Egg are inherently better in Shaman and Warlock for obvious reasons. It seems a real stretch to have to run 2x Cold Blood, 2x Abusive Sergeant and 2x Dark Iron Dwarf just to give my 3 drop a good target.
On November 19 2015 14:24 Firenza wrote: If there's a place for Reno in the right deck, there's a place for Brann. These reviews completely missed the mark on Reno last week. That guy is giving me a lot of headaches on ladder now.
Discover was also completely underestimated by everyone. Jeweled Scarab and Dark Peddler are more than playable. I expect Ethereal Conjurer and Tomb Spider to be as well. A lot Azure Drakes trade 1 for 1 and are simply played for the card draw. If your opponent uses a cheap spell or cheap minion they are still down a card same as you, and you likely have an excellent, contextually relevant spell with the right mana cost without putting you closer to fatigue (damn you Reno Jackson!).
I'd argue Reno Jackson's effect is a lot stronger than Brann's. Not many battlecries can measure up to almost doubling the health your opponent has to get through. We'll have to see how easy he is to abuse in practice, but realistically he's only going to double one or two battlecries.
Doubling one or two good battlecries is all he really needs to do to be good. Plus he effectively has Taunt since your opponent cannot afford to leave him alive. He may not have Reno's ridiculously strong effect, but he also doesn't have deck-changing drawbacks.
That said, the good battlecries have mostly been sussed out already and don't necessarily fit in the same deck, so Brann probably isn't going to spawn new deck archetypes. He might push some existing archetypes toward more battlecries, but his impact is going to be fundamentally different from Reno.
Reliquary Seeker - We have no idea what Blizzard was thinking with designing this card as it's just never going to trigger.
Surely it's just another tool for Dreadsteed decks?
Unearthed Raptor - you can play turn two Nerubian Egg into this since Rogue has plenty of ways activate eggs.
Am I missing something? Cold Blood and unreliable Oil procs - is there anything else? Surely you're not implying that I should be backstabbing my own egg?!
True, but a tempo rogue will most likely run abusive sergeant or even dark iron as well
Haha, so the more accurate way of writing that line in the article would have been...
"Warlock and Shaman have plenty of ways to activate eggs. Rogue doesn't, and will have to rely on other neutral minions to make the card work".
Or alternatively, how about...
"Rogue has no good ways of activating eggs so you're probably better off just running creeper instead".
I totally get that a tempo Rogue could work, but cards like Nerubian Egg are inherently better in Shaman and Warlock for obvious reasons. It seems a real stretch to have to run 2x Cold Blood, 2x Abusive Sergeant and 2x Dark Iron Dwarf just to give my 3 drop a good target.
On November 19 2015 14:24 Firenza wrote: If there's a place for Reno in the right deck, there's a place for Brann. These reviews completely missed the mark on Reno last week. That guy is giving me a lot of headaches on ladder now.
Discover was also completely underestimated by everyone. Jeweled Scarab and Dark Peddler are more than playable. I expect Ethereal Conjurer and Tomb Spider to be as well. A lot Azure Drakes trade 1 for 1 and are simply played for the card draw. If your opponent uses a cheap spell or cheap minion they are still down a card same as you, and you likely have an excellent, contextually relevant spell with the right mana cost without putting you closer to fatigue (damn you Reno Jackson!).
To be fair the review on Discover was written before any testing discovered that class cards are 4x as likely to show up (which was confirmed by Brode).
Brann combos with so much stuff its crazy. Paladin is going to be so broken its retarded, they can have two potential 14 life combos, +2/2 to every token, two divine shielded taunts, I mean WTF.
Unfortunately, you can't put 2x divine shield on the same minion
He's talking about Coghammer, not Argent Protector. It triggers randomly so could easily hit twice.
I wouldn't take for granted that that's what'll happen. It "says" trigger twice, but I'm starting to hear 'have double effect' based on all the caveats Blizzard keeps telling us (double joust and double discover would really start to bog down your turn too, so I could see them just doubling the joust results / card created).
On November 20 2015 07:20 Drazerk wrote: Apparenly an unearthed raptor can only have 8 deathrattles before it crashes the game. Just a warning
Lol
Anyways for the rogue people: yes, shaman and warlock have a (lot) easier time activating an egg, however they don't have the amazing deathrattle copy that rogue does. Anyways, will be able to see tomorrow if it works.
On November 20 2015 07:20 Drazerk wrote: Apparenly an unearthed raptor can only have 8 deathrattles before it crashes the game. Just a warning
Lol
Anyways for the rogue people: yes, shaman and warlock have a (lot) easier time activating an egg, however they don't have the amazing deathrattle copy that rogue does. Anyways, will be able to see tomorrow if it works.
I was trying for a 64 boom bot explosion
Also raptor isn't working with Clockwork Gnome Brann isn't working with Echoing Ooze Best 1 drop from mounted raptor = Dust Devil
Tunnel Trogg is effectively Lightwarden for Shamans: A small minion to synergize with the main focus of the class design. Lightwarden never saw use as an individual card, was only utilized as a minion through Light of the Naaru, and was given the biggest boost when it leveled up into Holy Champion. When the Holy Champion version of Tunnel Trogg comes out, Overload will become worth a second look.
Trogg has 3 hp though. While it's not as good as mana wyrm, Shaman having a nice early game is a pretty big deal, since when they have a really hard time getting control if they lose it.
I'm happy to report that Ethereal Conjurer is playable and awesome. I was playing tempo mage against a midrange Paladin. It was close, but he had a full hand and I was down to a couple cards. He plays Dr. Boom, and I have no real response. Plop down Conjurer and I have some good damage spells to deal with it... but that Frost Nova I picked instead actually allowed me to buy me an extra turn, and the six attack got me to exact lethal the next turn. I know not every situation is going to be that ideal, but grabbing an extra mage spell in a pinch is way better than card draw. The extra spell damage on Azure Drake only comes into play maybe 15-20% of the time, which doesn't make it worth it in my opinion. The 1-extra health is the real thing folks are agonizing over, and I simply think that the times that your opponent is easily able to trade up are worth the times when you can also trade up or push for damage. It's simply a better tempo card all around.
Having quite a bit of success with 'battlecry' midrange shaman I've thrown together, using Rumbling Elementals and Brann comboing with tuskars, a twilight drake, azure drakes, argus, a jeweled scrab, a healbot, a draenei totemcarver, Dr Boom. Couple solid minions like Totem Golem and Shredder in there, and it fairly crushes most I've come across so far. Still probably needs some fine-tuning, but it's lots of fun.
On November 20 2015 07:20 Drazerk wrote: Apparenly an unearthed raptor can only have 8 deathrattles before it crashes the game. Just a warning
Lol
Anyways for the rogue people: yes, shaman and warlock have a (lot) easier time activating an egg, however they don't have the amazing deathrattle copy that rogue does. Anyways, will be able to see tomorrow if it works.
I was trying for a 64 boom bot explosion
Also raptor isn't working with Clockwork Gnome Brann isn't working with Echoing Ooze Best 1 drop from mounted raptor = Dust Devil
Will try to find more bugs as I experiment
The Brann / Ehcoing Ooze bug is an issue with Echoing Ooze. Its battlecry isn't treated as a battlecry for some things. For example, if your opponent has a Mirror Entity and you play Echoing Ooze, their copy doubles too, even though every other battlecry in the game does not work with Mirror Entity.
Okay so just theorycrafting for when Unearthed Raptor doesn't just break the game instantly...
Brann + Dancing Swords+unearthed = 9 mana Unearthed the unearthed + Shadow step on the first unearthed + unearthed on the second unearthed + shadow step on the second unearthed + unearthed on the third unearthed + Youthful Brewmaster on the third unearthed + Unearthed on the Fourth Unearthed = 9 mana
That fifth unearthed raptor should be milling the opponent for 64 cards causing like 3000 damage over two turns.
I mean you could probably build a combo around Thaurrisan and only mill 32 cards like a sensible person and have a new miracle rogue. Also maybe add in Baron Rivendaire for 128 cards milled?
On November 20 2015 21:17 Drazerk wrote: Okay so just theorycrafting for when Unearthed Raptor doesn't just break the game instantly...
Brann + Dancing Swords+unearthed = 9 mana Unearthed the unearthed + Shadow step on the first unearthed + unearthed on the second unearthed + shadow step on the second unearthed + unearthed on the third unearthed + Youthful Brewmaster on the third unearthed + Unearthed on the Fourth Unearthed = 9 mana
That fifth unearthed raptor should be milling the opponent for 64 cards causing like 3000 damage over two turns.
I mean you could probably build a combo around Thaurrisan and only mill 32 cards like a sensible person and have a new miracle rogue. Also maybe add in Baron Rivendaire for 128 cards milled?
If you play an Unearthed Raptor earlier and Gang Up on it then you could probably mill even more cards... The obvious counter to that mill deck is priest with Mass Dispel.
On November 20 2015 21:17 Drazerk wrote: Okay so just theorycrafting for when Unearthed Raptor doesn't just break the game instantly...
Brann + Dancing Swords+unearthed = 9 mana Unearthed the unearthed + Shadow step on the first unearthed + unearthed on the second unearthed + shadow step on the second unearthed + unearthed on the third unearthed + Youthful Brewmaster on the third unearthed + Unearthed on the Fourth Unearthed = 9 mana
That fifth unearthed raptor should be milling the opponent for 64 cards causing like 3000 damage over two turns.
I mean you could probably build a combo around Thaurrisan and only mill 32 cards like a sensible person and have a new miracle rogue. Also maybe add in Baron Rivendaire for 128 cards milled?
If you play an Unearthed Raptor earlier and Gang Up on it then you could probably mill even more cards... The obvious counter to that mill deck is priest with Mass Dispel.
I find it funny that this seems like a more usable form of mill than Coldlight Oracle right now. The only thing stopping us from testing it is the fact that Blizzard can't keep their game from crashing
On November 20 2015 21:17 Drazerk wrote: Okay so just theorycrafting for when Unearthed Raptor doesn't just break the game instantly...
Brann + Dancing Swords+unearthed = 9 mana Unearthed the unearthed + Shadow step on the first unearthed + unearthed on the second unearthed + shadow step on the second unearthed + unearthed on the third unearthed + Youthful Brewmaster on the third unearthed + Unearthed on the Fourth Unearthed = 9 mana
That fifth unearthed raptor should be milling the opponent for 64 cards causing like 3000 damage over two turns.
I mean you could probably build a combo around Thaurrisan and only mill 32 cards like a sensible person and have a new miracle rogue. Also maybe add in Baron Rivendaire for 128 cards milled?
If you play an Unearthed Raptor earlier and Gang Up on it then you could probably mill even more cards... The obvious counter to that mill deck is priest with Mass Dispel.
Isn't the more awesome counter a priest playing Shadow Madness on the raptor and somehow killing it on his side of the board so the rogue dies of the horrible fatigue damage?
So i dunno if anyone tested it yet but if you discover as Ragnaros you can get any card in the game like an ESPORTAL. If you are Jarraxus you can only get Warlock cards even if you weren't a warlock when you summoned jarraxus
On November 20 2015 21:17 Drazerk wrote: Okay so just theorycrafting for when Unearthed Raptor doesn't just break the game instantly...
Brann + Dancing Swords+unearthed = 9 mana Unearthed the unearthed + Shadow step on the first unearthed + unearthed on the second unearthed + shadow step on the second unearthed + unearthed on the third unearthed + Youthful Brewmaster on the third unearthed + Unearthed on the Fourth Unearthed = 9 mana
That fifth unearthed raptor should be milling the opponent for 64 cards causing like 3000 damage over two turns.
I mean you could probably build a combo around Thaurrisan and only mill 32 cards like a sensible person and have a new miracle rogue. Also maybe add in Baron Rivendaire for 128 cards milled?
If you play an Unearthed Raptor earlier and Gang Up on it then you could probably mill even more cards... The obvious counter to that mill deck is priest with Mass Dispel.
Isn't the more awesome counter a priest playing Shadow Madness on the raptor and somehow killing it on his side of the board so the rogue dies of the horrible fatigue damage?
Oh yeah Thankfully those are not common cards in priest decks and I doubt there will be enough mill rogue decks to make teching in counters worthwhile. Hopefully. I want to mill people.
On November 19 2015 14:24 Firenza wrote: If there's a place for Reno in the right deck, there's a place for Brann. These reviews completely missed the mark on Reno last week. That guy is giving me a lot of headaches on ladder now.
Discover was also completely underestimated by everyone. Jeweled Scarab and Dark Peddler are more than playable. I expect Ethereal Conjurer and Tomb Spider to be as well. A lot Azure Drakes trade 1 for 1 and are simply played for the card draw. If your opponent uses a cheap spell or cheap minion they are still down a card same as you, and you likely have an excellent, contextually relevant spell with the right mana cost without putting you closer to fatigue (damn you Reno Jackson!).
To be fair the review on Discover was written before any testing discovered that class cards are 4x as likely to show up (which was confirmed by Brode).
Brann combos with so much stuff its crazy. Paladin is going to be so broken its retarded, they can have two potential 14 life combos, +2/2 to every token, two divine shielded taunts, I mean WTF.
Unfortunately, you can't put 2x divine shield on the same minion
He's talking about Coghammer, not Argent Protector. It triggers randomly so could easily hit twice.
I wouldn't take for granted that that's what'll happen. It "says" trigger twice, but I'm starting to hear 'have double effect' based on all the caveats Blizzard keeps telling us (double joust and double discover would really start to bog down your turn too, so I could see them just doubling the joust results / card created).
Well it turns out you really do Discover twice, so you get two difference cards instead two copies of the same one. And with Tuskarr Totemic you get two random totems and not the same one twice. So don't mind me.
On November 19 2015 14:24 Firenza wrote: If there's a place for Reno in the right deck, there's a place for Brann. These reviews completely missed the mark on Reno last week. That guy is giving me a lot of headaches on ladder now.
Discover was also completely underestimated by everyone. Jeweled Scarab and Dark Peddler are more than playable. I expect Ethereal Conjurer and Tomb Spider to be as well. A lot Azure Drakes trade 1 for 1 and are simply played for the card draw. If your opponent uses a cheap spell or cheap minion they are still down a card same as you, and you likely have an excellent, contextually relevant spell with the right mana cost without putting you closer to fatigue (damn you Reno Jackson!).
To be fair the review on Discover was written before any testing discovered that class cards are 4x as likely to show up (which was confirmed by Brode).
That definitely makes all these cards better.
On November 20 2015 00:27 Hearken wrote:
On November 19 2015 23:05 Daisyx wrote:
On November 19 2015 15:03 Vaudevillain2 wrote:
Brann combos with so much stuff its crazy. Paladin is going to be so broken its retarded, they can have two potential 14 life combos, +2/2 to every token, two divine shielded taunts, I mean WTF.
Unfortunately, you can't put 2x divine shield on the same minion
He's talking about Coghammer, not Argent Protector. It triggers randomly so could easily hit twice.
I wouldn't take for granted that that's what'll happen. It "says" trigger twice, but I'm starting to hear 'have double effect' based on all the caveats Blizzard keeps telling us (double joust and double discover would really start to bog down your turn too, so I could see them just doubling the joust results / card created).
Well it turns out you really do Discover twice, so you get two difference cards instead two copies of the same one. And with Tuskarr Totemic you get two random totems and not the same one twice. So don't mind me.
Had roughly a 60% winrate which is pretty impressive given its mill but I think a lot of that is coming from people running greedy Reno decks which typically just fell apart.
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