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Skala
Profile Joined September 2016
0 Posts
September 19 2016 18:09 GMT
#3081
Hey, this community seems to be mostly EU but I'm around during night hours NA most of the time so I really can't converse with the people here. Do you guys know of any other forums/communities for Hearthstone to check out?

(I know it's shameless to ask one community if there's others but I'd really appreciate it)
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-19 18:50:10
September 19 2016 18:46 GMT
#3082
secrets Proc their effects in the order they are played.
So if Freezing Trap is played and then Snake Trap and minion attacks another minion. it procs both the Freezing Trap and Snake Traps.
I find it strange that if first secret sends minion back to hand how can said minion proc another secret that requires minion getting attacked?
What about minion attacking face and there is Misdirection into Freezing Trap into Snake Trap, can it proc all 3?

So what if I have Truesilver Champion and Shadowboxer and hunter has attack 1 health minion and Snake Trap I attack the minion and Shadowboxer kills it, does Snake Trap proc?
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-20 10:41:20
September 20 2016 10:39 GMT
#3083
Both traps trigger because the attack doesn't have to complete to trigger snake trap. I also believe snake trap will trigger in the second scenario you listed, but I'm unsure as I'm not certain a misdirected attack counts as an attack.

EDIT: Ah now I understand the last scenario. I believe the trap will trigger, but I honestly don't know - good question.
Hearken
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom0 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-20 14:00:37
September 20 2016 13:54 GMT
#3084
Everything I've read about Snake Trap and trap priorities is just confusing. The wiki states that traps should trigger in order, but it seems that Snake Trap has had an increased priority since patch 4.0.

What about minion attacking face and there is Misdirection into Freezing Trap into Snake Trap, can it proc all 3?

If the attack is misdirected into one of the hunter's minions, it will proc all three. However, I'm confused as to whether it will trigger in order, meaning the attacking minion is returned without actually completing an attack and taking damage. I believe it should proc all three but be returned to your hand without completing the attack and taking damage:

+ Show Spoiler +


So what if I have Truesilver Champion and Shadowboxer and hunter has 1 health minion and Snake Trap I attack the minion and Shadowboxer kills it, does Snake Trap proc?

If the Shadowboxer kills the Truesilver target, your Truesilver attack will be cancelled. You'll get healed and then have the opportunity to choose another target and get a second heal on the same turn:

+ Show Spoiler +


Based on what I've read, it would seem that Snake Trap does not trigger in this instance, as the attack target was killed during the preparation phase so no attack took place, but like I say, it's all very confusing.
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-20 20:18:16
September 20 2016 16:42 GMT
#3085
On September 20 2016 22:54 Hearken wrote:
Everything I've read about Snake Trap and trap priorities is just confusing. The wiki states that traps should trigger in order, but it seems that Snake Trap has had an increased priority since patch 4.0.

Show nested quote +
What about minion attacking face and there is Misdirection into Freezing Trap into Snake Trap, can it proc all 3?

If the attack is misdirected into one of the hunter's minions, it will proc all three. However, I'm confused as to whether it will trigger in order, meaning the attacking minion is returned without actually completing an attack and taking damage. I believe it should proc all three but be returned to your hand without completing the attack and taking damage:

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gBaN2dsM3o


Show nested quote +
So what if I have Truesilver Champion and Shadowboxer and hunter has 1 health minion and Snake Trap I attack the minion and Shadowboxer kills it, does Snake Trap proc?

If the Shadowboxer kills the Truesilver target, your Truesilver attack will be cancelled. You'll get healed and then have the opportunity to choose another target and get a second heal on the same turn:

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1MkS7_jj0U


Based on what I've read, it would seem that Snake Trap does not trigger in this instance, as the attack target was killed during the preparation phase so no attack took place, but like I say, it's all very confusing.


What if I attacked face with Truesilver Champion got Misdirection into a minion do Explosive Trap, Bear Trap and Snake Trap all proc?

What if I attacked face with Truesilver Champion got Misdirection into a minion that get's killed by Shadowboxer? does it still trigger Snake Trap?
What if there were Explosive Trap and Bear Trap would both of them trigger?

What if Hunter is at 1 health and Shadowboxer kills Hunter, then my paladin is at 2 health and gets Misdirection into 2 attack minion, so 2 from minion + 2 from Explosive Trap kills paladin too?

I know that it's very unlikely, still I want to know how secrets work.



2) Hunter has Knife Juggler 2/2 and Snake Trap and Freezing Trap. Paladin has 2/1 minion and attacks the Knife Juggler, does it matter which order the secrets were played?
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
Hearken
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom0 Posts
September 21 2016 08:45 GMT
#3086
All I can offer is what I think will happen. To understand it fully, you'd have to read the advanced rulebook at length, as well as trying to find details on all of the many subtle adjustments Blizzard makes between patches that aren't included in the patch notes. Here's my two cents though...

What if I attacked face with Truesilver Champion got Misdirection into a minion do Explosive Trap, Bear Trap and Snake Trap all proc?

The exact result will depend on the order the traps are played, but in theory, Misdirection and Explosive definitely proc, Snake might and Bear definitely will not. This is due to the huge difference between "when" and "after". My understanding is that you'll be healed for two, get Misdirected, get Explosived and then proc Snake Trap IF you're misdirected into one of the hunter's minions.

What if I attacked face with Truesilver Champion got Misdirection into a minion that get's killed by Shadowboxer? does it still trigger Snake Trap?

No. The attack doesn't go through as the target is no longer there. You'll get to pick another target for your Truesilver and get a second heal on the same turn.

What if there were Explosive Trap and Bear Trap would both of them trigger?

I'm assuming this is further to the above scenario, in which case Explosive will still trigger (when) while Bear won't (after). However, if the Explosive kills the Shadowboxer, then Snake will obviously still proc.

What if Hunter is at 1 health and Shadowboxer kills Hunter, then my paladin is at 2 health and gets Misdirection into 2 attack minion, so 2 from minion + 2 from Explosive Trap kills paladin too?

Wow, that's mental I have no idea what would happen. My best guess is that you both die and force the draw as both Explosive and Misdirect trigger "when".

2) Hunter has Knife Juggler 2/2 and Snake Trap and Freezing Trap. Paladin has 2/1 minion and attacks the Knife Juggler, does it matter which order the secrets were played?

Yes, massively! If Snake>Freezing the three juggles will trigger most likely killing the 2/1 so Freezing doesn't even trigger. If Freezing>Snake then the hunter has burned his Freezing, all three juggles go face and the 2/1 goes back to the hand. This is essentially the difference between burning two traps on one attack or saving one. Hunters should always try to play Snake before Freezing because of this scenario.

I want to reiterate that this is my personal understanding from what I've read and looked at. Some of these interactions might go down slightly differently, and there are certainly some other interactions that make it even more complex, Noble Sacrifice for example.
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
September 21 2016 18:22 GMT
#3087
On September 21 2016 17:45 Hearken wrote:
I'm assuming this is further to the above scenario, in which case Explosive will still trigger (when) while Bear won't (after). However, if the Explosive kills the Shadowboxer, then Snake will obviously still proc.

Are you sure that Explosive Trap triggers before Shadowboxer deals 1 damage?
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
Melliflue
Profile Joined October 2012
United Kingdom1389 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-21 18:30:48
September 21 2016 18:29 GMT
#3088
I would add that I don't know if the age of the Truesilver Champion is important. Does Truesilver Champion always trigger before any secrets? Truesilver Champion says "Whenever" which is equivalent to "When" for the secrets. So in the following example

On September 21 2016 17:45 Hearken wrote:
Show nested quote +
What if I attacked face with Truesilver Champion got Misdirection into a minion that get's killed by Shadowboxer? does it still trigger Snake Trap?

No. The attack doesn't go through as the target is no longer there. You'll get to pick another target for your Truesilver and get a second heal on the same turn.

I don't know if the Truesilver Champion would always trigger before the Misdirection. If the Misdirection were older then it may trigger first and proceed as you said but if Truesilver Champion were older then its heal might trigger before Misdirection at which point the minion would already be dead before Misdirection picked a target, thus Misdirection would pick from the remaining options.

But, like Hearken, I don't know with certainty, this is only what I think would happen. There do seem to be a few rules for it though (but I might have these wrong too);
- Secrets trigger from earliest played to most recently played.
- Secrets won't trigger if an earlier secret has removed the target (eg, there is a big difference with Misdirection into Freezing Trap and Freezing Trap into Misdirection.)
- None-target secrets trigger so long as the condition is met, even if another secret breaks the condtion (eg, Explosive Trap will always trigger regardless of the existence of Freezing Trap, similarly Ice Barrier will always trigger regardless of Vaporize.)

Overall though I agree with Hearken's thoughts on what would happen in your examples, but I am not certain.
Hearken
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom0 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-22 08:21:39
September 22 2016 08:20 GMT
#3089
On September 22 2016 03:22 Madars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2016 17:45 Hearken wrote:
I'm assuming this is further to the above scenario, in which case Explosive will still trigger (when) while Bear won't (after). However, if the Explosive kills the Shadowboxer, then Snake will obviously still proc.

Are you sure that Explosive Trap triggers before Shadowboxer deals 1 damage?

That's my understanding, yes.

Based upon scenarios like this - https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3npkll/paladin_doesnt_die_after_attacking_with/

And this from the advanced rulebook:
Because every Proposed Attack Event resolves before the Attack Event, some triggers on attacking will always trigger before others regardless of order of play. For example, Explosive Trap always triggers before Truesilver Champion, and Freezing Trap always triggers before Blessing of Wisdom.

EDIT: also this:
It is commonly said that Truesilver Champion heals you before Explosive Trap, and that's why you stay alive. This is not true - you actually stay alive because your hero cannot die in the middle of a Phase (which the Preparation Phase is), and that is also why the order of play does not matter.[201][202] (Similar interactions, such as Floating Watcher vs Explosive Trap, work the same way.)[203]
Hearken
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom0 Posts
September 22 2016 08:36 GMT
#3090
On September 22 2016 03:29 Melliflue wrote:
I would add that I don't know if the age of the Truesilver Champion is important. Does Truesilver Champion always trigger before any secrets? Truesilver Champion says "Whenever" which is equivalent to "When" for the secrets. So in the following example

Show nested quote +
On September 21 2016 17:45 Hearken wrote:
What if I attacked face with Truesilver Champion got Misdirection into a minion that get's killed by Shadowboxer? does it still trigger Snake Trap?

No. The attack doesn't go through as the target is no longer there. You'll get to pick another target for your Truesilver and get a second heal on the same turn.

I don't know if the Truesilver Champion would always trigger before the Misdirection. If the Misdirection were older then it may trigger first and proceed as you said but if Truesilver Champion were older then its heal might trigger before Misdirection at which point the minion would already be dead before Misdirection picked a target, thus Misdirection would pick from the remaining options.

But, like Hearken, I don't know with certainty, this is only what I think would happen. There do seem to be a few rules for it though (but I might have these wrong too);
- Secrets trigger from earliest played to most recently played.
- Secrets won't trigger if an earlier secret has removed the target (eg, there is a big difference with Misdirection into Freezing Trap and Freezing Trap into Misdirection.)
- None-target secrets trigger so long as the condition is met, even if another secret breaks the condtion (eg, Explosive Trap will always trigger regardless of the existence of Freezing Trap, similarly Ice Barrier will always trigger regardless of Vaporize.)

Overall though I agree with Hearken's thoughts on what would happen in your examples, but I am not certain.

Truesilver seems pretty weird as people get confused about what constitutes a 'phase'.

Here's some good examples though:
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/13509010842
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3avbcp/bug_or_incorrect_interraction_truesilver_champion/

Also, as in above post:
It is commonly said that Truesilver Champion heals you before Explosive Trap, and that's why you stay alive. This is not true - you actually stay alive because your hero cannot die in the middle of a Phase (which the Preparation Phase is), and that is also why the order of play does not matter.

As I said in my original answer though, I'm not in any position of authority. I'm simply reading the advanced rulebook, doing some research and trying to help. The only things anyone should take from my posts as 100% true are the quotes from the rulebook. Additionally, as I said earlier, Blizzard frequently makes subtle changes to some interactions from patch to patch without including it in the patch notes, so you have to be careful when looking at Youtube vids etc. as things may have since been corrected without us knowing.
Melliflue
Profile Joined October 2012
United Kingdom1389 Posts
September 22 2016 18:51 GMT
#3091
Thing seem contradictory though, which I guess is a result of tinkering by Blizzard over time. The battle.net link contains the quote
It works as intended. 'Truesilver Champion' is supposed to heal the paladin when he attacks, but not when he executes the attack. The moment he decided to attack you, his weapon procced the heal, then your secret(s) activate in order they were played.
which contradicts the advanced rulebook
Explosive Trap always triggers before Truesilver Champion,

I'm never sure what sources to trust when it comes to Hearthstone. The advanced rulebook uses a lot of fancy terms but it nevertheless is unofficial and their best guess as to a rulebook. It is wonderful that they have gone to so much effort, still it would be very helpful if Blizzard released an actual rulebook, and tidied up some of their card text. Thanks for the work though Hearken
Hearken
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom0 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-23 08:54:12
September 23 2016 08:34 GMT
#3092
On September 23 2016 03:51 Melliflue wrote:
Thing seem contradictory though, which I guess is a result of tinkering by Blizzard over time. The battle.net link contains the quote
Show nested quote +
It works as intended. 'Truesilver Champion' is supposed to heal the paladin when he attacks, but not when he executes the attack. The moment he decided to attack you, his weapon procced the heal, then your secret(s) activate in order they were played.
which contradicts the advanced rulebook
Show nested quote +
Explosive Trap always triggers before Truesilver Champion,

I'm never sure what sources to trust when it comes to Hearthstone. The advanced rulebook uses a lot of fancy terms but it nevertheless is unofficial and their best guess as to a rulebook. It is wonderful that they have gone to so much effort, still it would be very helpful if Blizzard released an actual rulebook, and tidied up some of their card text. Thanks for the work though Hearken

That thread is over two years old to be fair, at which stage I'm not sure the community was fully aware of what constitutes a 'phase', what the 'preparation' phase was etc. The green post in that thread is actually accurate up to a point, but the guy isn't using the kind of terminology the community understands these days, and it therefore seems to contradict. He's basically listing the order of the animations that the game shows you, without understanding what's happening in the backend. The game actually shows the Truesilver heal before Explosive, but that isn't technically what's really happening.

I liken this to very simple effects like Flamestrike that shows everything dying at the same time, which is technically impossible within the engine, in that minions die in the order they're played, but showing the player seven separate death animations one by one would be clunky and confusing.

From my experience, the only source to truly trust is the rulebook. It's just a shame that it's almost impossible to read more than a couple of sentences without glazing over

I agree that Blizz should publish their own official rulebook. Seems to me the only possible reason why they've chosen to not print some free money is that it's all far too much work, and best left to their full-time free volunteers within the community. There are dudes like that Pattux guy within the community who, if you post your bugs/questions on reddit, will generally answer with some degree of authority very quickly. There's also the HS Science guys and people like Toast too. I think that the community has come a long way since 2014 in terms of pinning this stuff down.

Generally speaking though, the rulebook tends to have good video evidence attached to it, and the guys behind it seem to test things between patches pretty well.
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-24 11:39:49
September 24 2016 11:37 GMT
#3093
Question: where do I submit bug reports?

[image loading]
In this one clicking cancel did nothing at all and couldn't interact with anything else too.
[image loading]
Getting many user interface bugs on Windows 7 64bit
And often where opponent plays a card in ranked and it keeps handing in the middle of the screen and nothing happens (once I restarted game Alt+F4 + restart, and I it was already end of next turn, didn't get to do anything anything in next turn other time I just lost the game as if I never played it)
Same thing with card hanging in middle and nothing happening happens on other computer running windows 7 ultimate 64 bit
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
September 24 2016 13:00 GMT
#3094
Blizzard has been under DDOS attack for days already, probably nothing wrong on ur side, things are not just registering properly on the server side causing things not not working.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
Tresher
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany404 Posts
September 25 2016 10:52 GMT
#3095
Can someone rate/analyise this deck:


I know its just a Budget Deck and so far I liked this guys work but I feel this deck is really inconsistent. Mainly in the card draw and finisher department. I managed to get a few wins with it but it lacks something. I play since pre Naxx release but im still not that good at rating decks. Im also suprised that he didn´t add an upgrade section which he ususally does. Maybe Infested Wolf for Pantry Spider for example ?

I have a feeling this (with upgrades):
https://manacrystals.com/deck_guides/421-sheng-s-budget-standard-midrange-hunter/

is a much better deck (but Im missing Savannah Highmane) or even the Classic Hunter from the Deck recipe which I had some success with.
Extreme Force
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
September 25 2016 15:10 GMT
#3096
Does Wicked Witchdoctor summon duplicates of basic totems?
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
Tresher
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany404 Posts
September 25 2016 15:19 GMT
#3097
^ Yes. She can summon basic Totems that you already have from your Hero Power. Let´s say you got a spell power Totem from Hero Power then she can summon one too, just like Tuskarr Totemic.
Extreme Force
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21966 Posts
October 06 2016 21:15 GMT
#3098
How do I beat secret hunter when every one I play has the huntress in his opening hand (no exceptions)
MSanch
Profile Joined November 2010
Belgium89 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-12 06:58:51
October 12 2016 06:57 GMT
#3099
I'm coming back for a long pause. Is Karazhan worth the gold investment? I have 900 gold atm but I don't know if I should spend it on the adventure or if I should spare it for the next big expansion. I'm more a control player, I saw a few of the cards and the 2 that attracted me are the 2 drop discover a dragon and the dragon that kill a low attack minion. Are these card good?
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
October 13 2016 09:28 GMT
#3100
Book Wyrm is played in ever dragon deck, sometimes even two copies.
Some dragon warrior decks play Netherspite Historian, dragon priests play Netherspite Historian could be good in dragon paladin.
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
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