|
Osaka27146 Posts
Hi all-
I know there are many topics on this, but most of the advice was written by IzzayCraft and thus unreadable.
I will be putting together my SC2 computer today, and this is the build I have set up (thanks mahnini and maleorderbride for helping!)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 BOX 2.83GHz
Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-EG45M-UD2H
GFX card: AMD(ATI) RADEON RH4870-E512HW2
RAM: 1x4GB Pulsar RAM DDR2 800
HDD: HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.B HDT721010SLA360 (1TB SATA300 7200)
Power: 620W ”BULL-MAX KT-620RS”
plus the case, cooler, monitor, etc
While I appreciate everyone has brand loyalty, I'm not so worried about that. I just want to check and make sure all these parts fit together. My goal is to be able to play SC2, as well as be able to stream for various TL events.
I know the gfx card seems to be most often the point of contention. This one runs me about 180 usd. Anything comparable I should look into?
So what do you think, will it fly?
|
This will most likely run SC2 with ease. It is a very powerful computer.
But there's meant to be a new generation of ATI video cards and Intel cpus coming out before
Windows 7 (which means DX11). AKA in the next few months the price of all this will likely drop dramatically. You might regret buying now if your only reason for the PC is SC2, when all this new tech is coming out in a couple of months.
But again, it will run it with ease. I expect almost any computer bought today will run SC2 at very playable framerates.
|
Osaka27146 Posts
I will be playing the beta though, so I think I will need it sooner than in a couple months ><. Thanks for the advice though. It seems like there is always a new series on the horizon...
|
I'm sure you could get away with max/high settings on even a Geforce 8800/9600, which would be less expensive. 2gb of ram is still plenty, if you want to save a bit more there. Which operating system are you going with?
|
Osaka27146 Posts
I will end up on windows 7 probably, but xp atm. I know a 32bit OS bottlenecks me for the time being, but that will be one of my first uprades.
ps your quote is great.
|
If you're looking for a cheaper gfx card then a GeForce GTX 260 packs about the same amount of power. It all depends on how much onboard memory you get though.
EDIT: Also yeah its powerful but you also want to go with a 64bit OS to take advantage of the extra memory.
|
|
|
Most rts only need about 30 fps to be considered playable.
Only question is that, is the ram 1 stick of 4 gigs or 4 sticks of 1 gig. Most computer ppl stay away from running 4 sticks on non amd or i7 platforms as there are stability issues involved with adding more and more sticks.
I'd speculate that rig can run sc2 max settings x4 aa and x4 af at 1680x1050 and less.
Edit: for the guy above.
1st i7 is a dead platform... Intel is dropping it for everyone except ppl who would pay 700+ USD for newer cpu's as the i5 platform (which is not compatible with i7 cpu, the pins are different) performs about the same and cost less.
2nd He lives in japan the prices are different although 180 USD for a 512mb 4870 seems high by US standards it may be right.
3rd Along with that DDR2 1066 ram is just DDR2 800 ram that is certified to reach an OC at a certain voltage, they are for the most part rip offs you can buy slower better quality ram and oc it usually you should pay attention to voltage when you buy ram at v1.8 is native for DDR2 anything higher means it's just oced cheaper ram.
4th only way we can judge on what pricing is considered fair for him would be to see what website he buys it from, if he's buying from a website at all.
The CPU is extremely powerful for everything including gaming 12mb cache. GPU is very high class although 512mb seems like a waste as usually 1gig editions are usually only 20 more USD dollars and offers better performance when you turn up the eye candy and bump up resolutions.
|
I should also add that AMD processors right now offer far better $$/performance, at least in Australia. If you are looking at a more budget system, I would recommend AMD. Here the Phenom II 940 BE is a good $110 AUD cheaper ($289 vs $399 for the Q9550), for basically the same performance in games. And it overclocks easily.
Maybe the switch to AMD could save you enough money to get a better video card, seeing as Blizzard stated that video cards would provide the best scaling in SC2.
The Q9550 is nice no doubt, but it is expensive for what it does. It does a lot better in other applications compared to the 940BE, but in games the differences are minimal.
edit: What size monitor/resolution will you be playing at too? At anything at 1680x1050 or lower, the 4870 is plenty. Anything higher and you MIGHT want to get something better. But this is all guess work really, nobody knows what kind of specs SC2 needs to play smoothly.
|
i've never heard of intel mobos in general having problems with 4x1gb of ram. i know there are specific mobos that had the problem with vista but were fixed with a bios flash. the only issue here is upgradability i think. if you're going to need more than 4gb of ram in the near future 2x2gb would be a better choice. otherwise i think 4x1gb is totally fine.
|
go with 2x2, those aren't expensive anymore, and you can probably find a deal if you're patient.
|
i think the q9550 is overall the better processor (if only slightly). the 940 probably performs better in games but i have a hard time seeing sc2 maxing out either cpus. if the 940 is cheaper it's not a bad choice.
|
Osaka27146 Posts
I am shopping from kakaku.com and dospara.co.jp for pricing, but I will probably go into the city to purchase. The prices here are definitely higher than the US, newegg would have saved me 10% on everything I think.
As for the CPU, the Quad 9550 goes for 22,000 yen.
To compare, the Phantom II X3 720 is 13,480, and the Phantom II x4 945 is 21,000.
Some others are the Phenom II x4 905e for 20,000 and the 705e for 12,600
---
About the ram, why is 2x2gb better than 1x4gb? Is that only a price thing? Ram is a bit more expensive here, but that 1x4gb is 4,700 yen (like 47 dollars). It is the same price as the 2x2 generally. Wouldn't having 1x4 allow me to just get another 4gb stick later with the 64bit OS?
|
I would definately reccomend you go for an i7, or comparable 45nm build (like the qx9650)
Also, go for 2x2gp ddr3 1600, as the performance is quite a bit better and will be top off the line for the next couple years.
I have nothing to say about the 4870, its an awesome card.
you might want to go for a 10,000 rpm drive and then just get a cheap external drive, because 1tb is only i think 120 USD, and a 300gb 10,000rpm drive is also about 100 USD.
|
On July 04 2009 11:40 Manifesto7 wrote:
I am shopping from kakaku.com and dospara.co.jp for pricing, but I will probably go into the city to purchase.
As for the CPU, the Quad 9550 goes for 22,000 yen.
To compare, the Phantom II X3 720 is 13,480, and the Phantom II x4 945 is 21,000.
Some others are the Phenom II x4 905e for 20,000 and the 705e for 12,600
---
About the ram, why is 2x2gb better than 1x4gb? Is that only a price thing? Ram is a bit more expensive here, but that 1x4gb is 4,700 yen (like 47 dollars). It is the same price as the 2x2 generally. Wouldn't having 1x4 allow me to just get another 4gb stick later with the 64bit OS?
I think people think you are getting 4 sticks of 1gb ram not 1 stick of 4gb ram. 1 stick of 4gb should be perfectly fine and allow you to upgrade at a future date if you want to.
|
Osaka27146 Posts
On July 04 2009 11:44 ghermination wrote:
I would definately reccomend you go for an i7, or comparable 45nm build (like the qx9650)
Also, go for 2x2gp ddr3 1033, as the performance is quite a bit better and will be top off the line for the next couple years.
I have nothing to say about the 4870, its an awesome card.
you might want to go for a 10,000 rpm drive and then just get a cheap external drive, because 1tb is only i think 120 USD, and a 300gb 10,000rpm drive is also about 100 USD.
The 10,000 rpm drives here are waaaay more expensive. 180 usd for a 150 GB... Not sure that is work it.
|
A single 4 gig stick of DDR2 800 for only $47 is a great price haha it's also preferred . 1 stick of ram is the most stable, most preferred for over clocking and expandability. As Dual channel is over rated for the most part anyways.
Q9550 vs Phe 945
If you are really going for money saving dropping down to a Phenom 940 should not hurt you in terms of gaming performance as those 2 processors perform very similar in games but usually Q9550 is considered a slightly better processor overall.
I may look at those websites and try my hand at understanding Japanese but it's not really needed unless you are looking for penny pinching.
But it's not a bad trade to skip here and there to get a 1gig 4870 or a GTX260 which should solidify you ability to get the most out of sc2
Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 11:50 Manifesto7 wrote:On July 04 2009 11:44 ghermination wrote:
I would definately reccomend you go for an i7, or comparable 45nm build (like the qx9650)
Also, go for 2x2gp ddr3 1033, as the performance is quite a bit better and will be top off the line for the next couple years.
I have nothing to say about the 4870, its an awesome card.
you might want to go for a 10,000 rpm drive and then just get a cheap external drive, because 1tb is only i think 120 USD, and a 300gb 10,000rpm drive is also about 100 USD. The 10,000 rpm drives here are waaaay more expensive. 180 usd for a 150 GB... Not sure that is work it. Faster HDD's only make load times faster i'm sure Mani has some patience. Hitachi deskstar isn't considered the most reliable brand or the fastest but they are generally one of the cheapest. The fastest HDD's are usually around the newest 640 or 320 gig Seagate or Western Digital, seagate being the faster but WD being the more reliable.
|
On July 04 2009 11:50 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 11:44 ghermination wrote:
I would definately reccomend you go for an i7, or comparable 45nm build (like the qx9650)
Also, go for 2x2gp ddr3 1033, as the performance is quite a bit better and will be top off the line for the next couple years.
I have nothing to say about the 4870, its an awesome card.
you might want to go for a 10,000 rpm drive and then just get a cheap external drive, because 1tb is only i think 120 USD, and a 300gb 10,000rpm drive is also about 100 USD. The 10,000 rpm drives here are waaaay more expensive. 180 usd for a 150 GB... Not sure that is work it.
Yup, they are not worth it at all, stick to 7200rpm drives.
|
Osaka27146 Posts
I can get a GTX 260 Extreme+ 896 MB for $30+, but getting to 1GB is another hundred dollars.
|
Yeah I don't think fast hard drives are worth it. What's the point of loading a few seconds faster than your opponent, when you have to wait for them anyway? They are snappier in loading apps and all that, but if you look at purely SC2 performance, they're not really worth the money.
|
One question first, why are you going with a micro atx mobo?
and for the record i think there are a few things that should be changed, but let's go step by step.
|
On July 04 2009 11:56 Manifesto7 wrote:
I can get a GTX 260 Extreme+ 896 MB for $30+, but getting to 1GB is another hundred dollars.
What resolution will you play at?
|
Osaka27146 Posts
On July 04 2009 12:00 Etherone wrote:
One question first, why are you going with a micro atx mobo?
and for the record i think there are a few things that should be changed, but let's go step by step.
No idea. a non-micro one is 20- so i can change that.
http://www.dospara.co.jp/5goods_parts/parts_detail.php?h=d&f=d&m=parts&ic=90563&lf=0
On July 04 2009 12:04 Shade692003 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 11:56 Manifesto7 wrote:
I can get a GTX 260 Extreme+ 896 MB for $30+, but getting to 1GB is another hundred dollars. What resolution will you play at?
No idea, havent bought a monitor yet. A... good one?
|
On July 04 2009 11:44 ghermination wrote:
you might want to go for a 10,000 rpm drive and then just get a cheap external drive, because 1tb is only i think 120 USD, and a 300gb 10,000rpm drive is also about 100 USD.
since when did that happen? a 300GB velociraptor for 100 USD?!?!?! cheapest i've seen is 220$
On July 04 2009 11:58 faseman wrote:
Yeah I don't think fast hard drives are worth it. What's the point of loading a few seconds faster than your opponent, when you have to wait for them anyway? They are snappier in loading apps and all that, but if you look at purely SC2 performance, they're not really worth the money.
Well, my friend has an i7 PC, hd4870, running windows 7 and he says his performance bottleneck is most definitely his 7200RPM HDD. So like you might load faster in SC2, but I mean, you'll notice that loading everything else is faster too.
I'm doing an i7 build, and I'm opting for hd 4890 + the 10k RPM hdd. I don't want any slow downs in my build 
|
I'm asking the resolution because 1G of vram will only really make a difference starting a 1920x1080 and higher. On newegg.com, the 4870 1 GB is cheaper than the gtx260 896mb, so if you plan to play at 1920x1080 (most 24inches monitor) I'd stick with the 4870.
|
Osaka27146 Posts
I don't think I will need that much since my monitor will be 22" at most I think.
|
1st, Fast Harddisk doesnt worth it. Just current Harddrive is ok. But I would recommend Seagate 7200.12 series over Hitachi.
2nd, If you go for the Quadcore from Intel now, you will not be able to upgrade your PC later on because Intel now switchs to new i7 series with diffirence sockets. So if you go for Quadcore from AMD(socket AM3) you will be able to upgrade your CPU later on since Phenom series is just switch to AM3.
I like AMD alot so my opinion will be bias on AMD, but if you have no reference, I think you should go for AMD, cos its cheaper and does the same job. Would recommend Phenom II X3(triple core) or X4(quadcore)
3rd. An Nvidia card will be better at this point. Would recommend a 260GTX or 275 GTX at most.
4th. Buy mobo from Asus, Gigabyte will fine. Buy ATX mobos since they have better PCI layer board, or even better capitators.
5th. If you go for AMD, make sure to get the DDR3 RAM 1333
6th. You will not know if all these parts will work perfectly together, that the disadvantage of putting computer together by yourself but the chance you have problems is less than 5% though.
7th. As long as monitor is concerned. Go for 22'' or more with 16 . Monitor is pretty cheap right now, with around 200USD you can get a nice one. Go for brand like Samsung, Viewsonic or even BenQ and LG is also ok.
|
Doesnt Radeon run better with an AMD processor? And a Geoforce with an Intel Pentium processor?
|
hmm any reason why people are recommending the gtx260 over the 4870? they are around the same price from what i see and the 4870 is the better performer.
|
260 vs 4870 performs about the same but there are nvidia and ATI bais games, games just tend to work like that like GRIND for ATI and Crysis for Nvidia. It's w.e is cheapest of the two for GTX260 (216 core) vs 4870 1 gig
|
On July 04 2009 12:15 Manifesto7 wrote:
I don't think I will need that much since my monitor will be 22" at most I think.
honestly get a gtx260, the prices on it are dirt cheap and it is more than you will need for a while. although 4870 is enough for any game on max for a 20" as for a 24" you would better go up to the 1gb 4870 or gtx260+ region.
do not get a 22" get either 24" or 20".
the ram is good 1x4 is nice and gives you expandability, although i do not personally have any experience with Pulsar ram so i would suggest you look for some feedback on that.
mobo: i asked because the mobo you have up is a micro atx mobo. since you are not going to be picky about it i sugest Gigabyte GA-EP45C-UD3R better cheaper, and reliable. that or the P5Q PRO this link is for the Turbo version, because i didn't find the regular right away XD. but yea nothing wrong with the turbo, they just charge you 10 bucks for a few perks. anywho the P5Q PRO is the epitome of stability, this mobo is the shit, easily the most recommended mobo by people who know wtf they are talking about, and don't hate asus.
that being said i hate asus lol), because on the OFF chance that you get a faulty mobo their customer support is garbage, it will take you forever to get a new one.
HDD: go for a 640gb WD6400AAKS I swear by this HDD
PSU: I nit pick heavily when shopping for PSUs, so if it isn't a known reliable well priced PSU, i run like it's the plague. bad PSU's are the number one cause of PC heartache, they will burn quickly and they will take something with them. pick the rest of the build and i will pick a PSU for you, since there are a lot of great ones to choose from.
|
micro atx is only a size difference so unless your cooler is going to be huge or something i dont think it'll make too much of a difference.
the p45 you linked is actually cheaper (on newegg) though and has more room for expansion.
|
On July 04 2009 12:32 mahnini wrote:
hmm any reason why people are recommending the gtx260 over the 4870? they are around the same price from what i see and the 4870 is the better performer.
because he is going for a 512mb 4870 which is worse than a gtx 260. if he were to get a 4870 1gb i would easily back him up, i am an ati fanboy to some extent. ^ ^
edit: omg i didn't mention the CPU.
go find a Q6600 QUICK, i heard it went out of production, and i will be all you'll need for quite some time. the overclock-ability on it is insane. it's reliable and really cheap.
|
Nvidia fanboy here :D.
When AMD purchased ATI...I feel really weird since I am a AMD fanboy but cant get myself to like ATI ... Their problems with Catalys drivers in the past scared the hell out of me
|
On July 04 2009 12:47 Caphe wrote:
Nvidia fanboy here :D.
When AMD purchased ATI...I feel really weird since I am a AMD fanboy but cant get myself to like ATI ... Their problems with Catalys drivers in the past scared the hell out of me
outdated rumors
|
Germany1302 Posts
I don't want to sound biased, but I would srsly reconsider buying that ATI Gfx Card instead of some nVidia. ATI never managed to catch up driver-wise and is pretty sloppy when it comes to fixing problems (TV out not working at all, crashing, driver issues etc). I'm pretty sure I'll get some hard flames for that, but I just sum up the problems we get reported from our customers (which are enought to be taken srsly) and what *help* we could expect from ATI (if any at all). I think AMD/ATI benefits way to much from the common belief that "there cannot be that much of a difference" and "such a huge company cannot have such grave problems". But there is/they do.
|
On July 04 2009 12:06 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 12:00 Etherone wrote:
One question first, why are you going with a micro atx mobo?
and for the record i think there are a few things that should be changed, but let's go step by step. No idea. a non-micro one is 20- so i can change that. http://www.dospara.co.jp/5goods_parts/parts_detail.php?h=d&f=d&m=parts&ic=90563&lf=0Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 12:04 Shade692003 wrote:On July 04 2009 11:56 Manifesto7 wrote:
I can get a GTX 260 Extreme+ 896 MB for $30+, but getting to 1GB is another hundred dollars. What resolution will you play at? No idea, havent bought a monitor yet. A... good one?
Definitely change the motherboard to the UD3LR. That motherboard is great, versus your original motherboard being micro and having onboard video, which you will not even be using.
All of your other parts look great (can you tell me the ampage on the 12V rail of the PSU?), but in terms of the best price for performance one really has to just compare the going rates and it looks like Japan is odd in terms of pricing. Everything you have is fully compatible though, so no worries on that front.
I suggest a 2x2GB kit for upgrade ability in the future, unless of course, those are ridiculously more expensive or something.
The list of parts that you have will do a very, very good job of playing SCII, or any game, for that matter. Price-wise you could check to see how much a 4890 is. If the 4890 is within $20-$25 of a 4870, then purchase it.
I picked up a 4870 512MB for $105 including shipping today, whereas a 4890 is going to be $180. Your prices are probably quite different though.
|
On July 04 2009 12:45 Etherone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 12:32 mahnini wrote:
hmm any reason why people are recommending the gtx260 over the 4870? they are around the same price from what i see and the 4870 is the better performer. because he is going for a 512mb 4870 which is worse than a gtx 260. if he were to get a 4870 1gb i would easily back him up, i am an ati fanboy to some extent. ^ ^ edit: omg i didn't mention the CPU. go find a Q6600 QUICK, i heard it went out of production, and i will be all you'll need for quite some time. the overclock-ability on it is insane. it's reliable and really cheap.
ah. so the gtx260 core 216 is on par with the 1gb 4870 but the old gtx260 is not?
q6600 actually jumped up in price for some reason. it's 199$ on newegg now when it used to sell for $189 i think. also mani said he wouldnt be overclocking.
|
Got for the GTX 260 if it is only $20-$30 more. I picked one up not too long ago and I've been playing every game maxed on my 24" monitor at 1920x1200. Make sure it is the 216 shader version though and not the 192, there is a huge difference. With the latest drivers it has an edge over the 4870 1GB too.
|
ATI 4890 for 180$?, now that is something I want
|
On July 04 2009 12:06 Manifesto7 wrote:
No idea, havent bought a monitor yet. A... good one?
The Samsung 2233rz is 22" with near-CRT response. One of the best you can get without using a CRT.
|
Brand loyalty, I know, but I have never once (not even once!) had an ATI card that wasn't absolute trash. I think I'm 0 for 5. Maybe they've improved in the past few years, but I've simply never not had an experience where the NVidia card didn't have way fewer issues.
|
On July 04 2009 12:57 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 12:45 Etherone wrote:On July 04 2009 12:32 mahnini wrote:
hmm any reason why people are recommending the gtx260 over the 4870? they are around the same price from what i see and the 4870 is the better performer. because he is going for a 512mb 4870 which is worse than a gtx 260. if he were to get a 4870 1gb i would easily back him up, i am an ati fanboy to some extent. ^ ^ edit: omg i didn't mention the CPU. go find a Q6600 QUICK, i heard it went out of production, and i will be all you'll need for quite some time. the overclock-ability on it is insane. it's reliable and really cheap. ah. so the gtx260 core 216 is on par with the 1gb 4870 but the old gtx260 is not? q6600 actually jumped up in price for some reason. it's 199$ on newegg now when it used to sell for $189 i think. also mani said he wouldnt be overclocking.
honestly the difference between the 192 and 216 were pretty negligible, except price that is, but since they pretty much discontinued it, it doesn't matter.
no i meant that the 260 is better than 4870 512mb, but on par with the 1gb, each having their game biases. Mani stated that the gtx260 is 70 dollars cheaper than the 48701gb so it is better to save $70 and spend it elsewhere.
|
Ha ha, from the title, I thought this thread was going to be about that stupid 9 zeal rush the computer does against zerg. Ha ha, I read somewhere that a progamer lost to it once when he was warming up against a comp, haha.
|
Also mani, you've been good for over a grand in cash before, so if you want me to ship you any parts and you pay me afterward that is completely fine with me.
4GB 1066MHz kit of RAM here is $48. THe 4870 512MB for $105 is OOS already, it was a pretty amazing deal. The next best deal on one is the 4870 1GB for $145. 1TB samsung is $80, that motherboard is about $106.
I have no idea how much shipping to japan is, but I shipped everything except a case and PSU to the netherlands for $60 with $900 USD in insurance on it.
I can even assemble the mobo/cpu/ram/fan, not that it is very hard ;p
|
On July 04 2009 12:11 phase wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 11:44 ghermination wrote:
you might want to go for a 10,000 rpm drive and then just get a cheap external drive, because 1tb is only i think 120 USD, and a 300gb 10,000rpm drive is also about 100 USD. since when did that happen? a 300GB velociraptor for 100 USD?!?!?! cheapest i've seen is 220$ Show nested quote +On July 04 2009 11:58 faseman wrote:
Yeah I don't think fast hard drives are worth it. What's the point of loading a few seconds faster than your opponent, when you have to wait for them anyway? They are snappier in loading apps and all that, but if you look at purely SC2 performance, they're not really worth the money.
Well, my friend has an i7 PC, hd4870, running windows 7 and he says his performance bottleneck is most definitely his 7200RPM HDD. So like you might load faster in SC2, but I mean, you'll notice that loading everything else is faster too. I'm doing an i7 build, and I'm opting for hd 4890 + the 10k RPM hdd. I don't want any slow downs in my build
I bought a 300 gig 10,000 rpm drive for 700 kuna (roughly 140 USD) at a computer store 4 months ago. It wasn't on sale, so i assume prices like tat can be found elsewhere.
|
prices like that are normal. however 10K RPM drives are dying out. SSDs are far far superior, especially in RAID 0.
Just wait for a 120GB SSD to cost $150 and get one, or ideal two and RAID them for an OS/Programs drive.
|
Osaka27146 Posts
You guys are awesome, thanks a lot for your advice. I think I've got a good list to work off of, and I will post a "making - of" when I am doing it. Cheers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
