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Whale Wars - Page 12

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Number41
Profile Joined August 2008
United States130 Posts
June 05 2010 07:41 GMT
#221
Sorry for the double post, but I wrote the above for my own interests. It is not intended as a legal opinion. If anyone finds flaws in the analysis, please let me know. If it's really harsh, send it in a pm. Don't worry about offending me.

I hope the diplomatic and economic pressure will eventually force Japan and others to drastically reduce their catch. But once again, there doesn't seem to be stringent enough international law that applies here.
agarfin
Profile Joined May 2009
United States106 Posts
June 05 2010 08:06 GMT
#222
I support ending whaling and I think the Sea Shepard crew is right to have taken actions into their own hands. However, I strong disagree with some of their actions. Multiple times have they come extremely close to colliding with one of the Japanese vessels, including a actual collision in season 2 (correct me if i'm wrong). It is one thing for them to risk their own lives protecting whales, and they should have every right to do so. But, it is unacceptable for them to risk the lives of the Japanese crews threw reckless and frankly stupid actions (mainly the captains decisions). If one of the ships were to sink crew members in the water would die in minutes.

Additionally, while I think its good that the show draws lots of attention to whaling. As a show it is horrible. It is 45 minutes of over-dramatic nothing. It has the same amount of content as an American Idol results show.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-12 03:59:04
June 12 2010 03:58 GMT
#223
I'm starting to think that the hardest working people of the Ship(s) of Sea Shepherd is the Engineering crew, can't be easy trying to keep both bucket of bolts working.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 14 2010 20:10 GMT
#224
Expect Sea Shepherd to jump on this:

(June 14) -- Japanese officials bribed six small nations with offers of cash and call girls in return for their votes in favor of slaughtering whales, according to a newspaper investigation.

Japan denies the accusations, but The Sunday Times reported that two of its journalists filmed government officials from six countries admitting they were bribed by Japan to vote with the pro-whalers.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Thrill
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
2599 Posts
June 14 2010 23:11 GMT
#225
On June 15 2010 05:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Expect Sea Shepherd to jump on this:

Show nested quote +
(June 14) -- Japanese officials bribed six small nations with offers of cash and call girls in return for their votes in favor of slaughtering whales, according to a newspaper investigation.

Japan denies the accusations, but The Sunday Times reported that two of its journalists filmed government officials from six countries admitting they were bribed by Japan to vote with the pro-whalers.


Source


That's nothing new, it's pretty much a major theme of 'The Cove'. Good thing they got it on tape though, hope it sticks.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 07 2010 05:50 GMT
#226
Auckland anti-whaling activist Peter Bethune, 45, has been sentenced to two years in prison, suspended for five years, for obstructing the activities of a Japanese whaling fleet in the Antarctic Ocean, the Kyodo news agency reported.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
July 07 2010 06:11 GMT
#227
On July 07 2010 14:50 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Auckland anti-whaling activist Peter Bethune, 45, has been sentenced to two years in prison, suspended for five years, for obstructing the activities of a Japanese whaling fleet in the Antarctic Ocean, the Kyodo news agency reported.


Source


lol I wonder what that will be like for him. Going to Japanese prison as an anti-whaler. Are Japanese prisons anything like prisons in the US?
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 07 2010 06:27 GMT
#228
Its stupid as fuck.

I don't have any issue with arguments along the lines of "whaling at X level is unsustainable", but when Greenpeace starts saying "whaling is unsustainable at any level" you know you're dealing with fanatic douchebags.

It is quite simple. There exists a population, lets call it X, at which whales can grow their population by Y each year. This is a sustainable population. The fact that such a population exists is a necessary mathematical truth.

If you have problems with sustainability, fine - push for laws that put a quota on whaling takes every year, or whatever makes sure that whale populations don't fall below X. But there is nothing special about whales that makes them any different from deer or bison or any other fish, for that matter. If people want to eat whale, and they're willing to pay what it costs to get whale at a given level of scarcity, there is no reason they should not be allowed to do so.

Every time the fat fuck starts saying shit like "we want to put the fear into them that they put into whales" I rage.
Like a G6
Atticus.axl
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
July 07 2010 06:35 GMT
#229
On July 07 2010 15:27 kzn wrote:
It is quite simple. There exists a population, lets call it X, at which whales can grow their population by Y each year. This is a sustainable population. The fact that such a population exists is a necessary mathematical truth.

If you have problems with sustainability, fine - push for laws that put a quota on whaling takes every year, or whatever makes sure that whale populations don't fall below X.

If people want to eat whale, and they're willing to pay what it costs to get whale at a given level of scarcity, there is no reason they should not be allowed to do so.

Every time the fat fuck starts saying shit like "we want to put the fear into them that they put into whales" I rage.


1. Agreed.

2. There are already international bans on whaling aside from research purposes. Japan whales to sell the meat and claims it is for research, while ignoring quotas.

3. Ever heard of the Dodo?

4. Also agreed.


DoctorHelvetica <3
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 07 2010 07:14 GMT
#230
On July 07 2010 15:35 Atticus.axl wrote:3. Ever heard of the Dodo?


Again, an issue of improperly set quotas.

Set the quotas, harshly penalize overfishing. Problem solved.
Like a G6
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-31 05:06:50
July 31 2010 05:06 GMT
#231
This had to be the sorriest episode of the season so far.


+ Show Spoiler +

The delta boat is stuck on the rocks and what do they do, they REV the engine. Do they not also have some sort of schedule for Deck watch.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
July 31 2010 15:21 GMT
#232
On July 31 2010 14:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
This had to be the sorriest episode of the season so far.


+ Show Spoiler +

The delta boat is stuck on the rocks and what do they do, they REV the engine. Do they not also have some sort of schedule for Deck watch.


It's kind of unfortunate because the entire season has just been fail after fail. The Japanese have just been too fast and too good at evading that the only drama that the show can create is their own screw ups.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
July 31 2010 16:36 GMT
#233
On July 07 2010 15:11 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2010 14:50 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Auckland anti-whaling activist Peter Bethune, 45, has been sentenced to two years in prison, suspended for five years, for obstructing the activities of a Japanese whaling fleet in the Antarctic Ocean, the Kyodo news agency reported.


Source


lol I wonder what that will be like for him. Going to Japanese prison as an anti-whaler. Are Japanese prisons anything like prisons in the US?


Whaling isn't really a big topic, for or against, in Japan. From what I hear, it's 'nobody cares' not 'whaling, fuck yeah!'
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 13 2010 02:44 GMT
#234
So apparently Paul Watson and Bethune are going to be on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, tonight.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ProFail
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (North)81 Posts
August 13 2010 13:23 GMT
#235
Love the programme, but I dont think I can get it in England, despite having sky i've never seen it? Watched it all online (illegally) but now the website has been taken down and im left without whale wars, Inspirational programme, love what they're doing.
Didnt play Beta, Never played any RTS, straight in plat.
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
August 13 2010 13:53 GMT
#236
On August 13 2010 22:23 ProFail wrote:
Love the programme, but I dont think I can get it in England, despite having sky i've never seen it? Watched it all online (illegally) but now the website has been taken down and im left without whale wars, Inspirational programme, love what they're doing.
tvunderground org ru

I watched 3 episodes and didn't like it. It's funny how they're so unorganized that the biggest threat against them is their own incompetence.

But some people here got it all wrong. The most harmful thing they do is throwing stink bombs. They're not endangering anyone's life. Labeling them as "terrorists" is completely ignorant. They're not trying to cause terror neither are they inflicting any direct damage. They're main and most powerful weapons are the cameras and they're main goal is to move the public opinion.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
August 13 2010 14:01 GMT
#237
On August 13 2010 22:53 VIB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2010 22:23 ProFail wrote:
Love the programme, but I dont think I can get it in England, despite having sky i've never seen it? Watched it all online (illegally) but now the website has been taken down and im left without whale wars, Inspirational programme, love what they're doing.
tvunderground org ru

I watched 3 episodes and didn't like it. It's funny how they're so unorganized that the biggest threat against them is their own incompetence.

But some people here got it all wrong. The most harmful thing they do is throwing stink bombs. They're not endangering anyone's life. Labeling them as "terrorists" is completely ignorant. They're not trying to cause terror neither are they inflicting any direct damage. They're main and most powerful weapons are the cameras and they're main goal is to move the public opinion.

Did you miss the part where they rammed into one of the whaling ships? That's a very interesting definition of "direct damage" you have.
wadadde
Profile Joined February 2009
270 Posts
August 13 2010 14:06 GMT
#238
On July 07 2010 15:27 kzn wrote:
Its stupid as fuck.

I don't have any issue with arguments along the lines of "whaling at X level is unsustainable", but when Greenpeace starts saying "whaling is unsustainable at any level" you know you're dealing with fanatic douchebags.

It is quite simple. There exists a population, lets call it X, at which whales can grow their population by Y each year. This is a sustainable population. The fact that such a population exists is a necessary mathematical truth.

If you have problems with sustainability, fine - push for laws that put a quota on whaling takes every year, or whatever makes sure that whale populations don't fall below X. But there is nothing special about whales that makes them any different from deer or bison or any other fish, for that matter. If people want to eat whale, and they're willing to pay what it costs to get whale at a given level of scarcity, there is no reason they should not be allowed to do so.

Every time the fat fuck starts saying shit like "we want to put the fear into them that they put into whales" I rage.

Whales aren't fish. Moreover, the argument that there's nothing special about them is ludicrous. They're highly intelligent mammals, comparable in many ways, including emotionally, to humans. Whales, like other animals with which we have much in common, should arguably be treated in a manner distinct from the way we treat biological drones like bees plankton, (most) fish... There's also the fact that whales perform a vital function in their ecosystem. I'm no expert on marine ecosystems so I won't pretend to know to what degree it is defensible to interfere from that point of view. Point being that there is more than one factor to be considered. This is something you'd better pound into that head of yours before making blanket statements.
The practice of creating huge profits from (manufactured) scarcity is objectionable. It would be a lot more sensible to not incentivize illegal whaling by killing the market for it. Making the sale of all whale products illegal may not immediately kill the culture that drives the consumption, but it does have the potential to kickstart a process that could lead to a cultural change. When luxury becomes harmful it's time to start questioning the legality of it. The free market can go cry itself to sleep, for all I care. We've got some level of democracy for a reason. Unfortunately the majority of the Japanese public isn't too interested in this sort of stuff yet..
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
August 13 2010 14:13 GMT
#239
On August 13 2010 23:01 city42 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2010 22:53 VIB wrote:
On August 13 2010 22:23 ProFail wrote:
Love the programme, but I dont think I can get it in England, despite having sky i've never seen it? Watched it all online (illegally) but now the website has been taken down and im left without whale wars, Inspirational programme, love what they're doing.
tvunderground org ru

I watched 3 episodes and didn't like it. It's funny how they're so unorganized that the biggest threat against them is their own incompetence.

But some people here got it all wrong. The most harmful thing they do is throwing stink bombs. They're not endangering anyone's life. Labeling them as "terrorists" is completely ignorant. They're not trying to cause terror neither are they inflicting any direct damage. They're main and most powerful weapons are the cameras and they're main goal is to move the public opinion.

Did you miss the part where they rammed into one of the whaling ships? That's a very interesting definition of "direct damage" you have.
Errr.... their boat who "rammed" them was stopped :S Just... floating still.. and they rammed the other ship? There's video evidence everywhere. Among the world's media there's reports blaming one side, reports blaming another and reports blaming both.
You're just blindly quoting the whaler's version of the story. While I didn't watch those episodes I did read about it and saw the collision videos on youtube.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
August 13 2010 14:19 GMT
#240
On August 13 2010 23:13 VIB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2010 23:01 city42 wrote:
On August 13 2010 22:53 VIB wrote:
On August 13 2010 22:23 ProFail wrote:
Love the programme, but I dont think I can get it in England, despite having sky i've never seen it? Watched it all online (illegally) but now the website has been taken down and im left without whale wars, Inspirational programme, love what they're doing.
tvunderground org ru

I watched 3 episodes and didn't like it. It's funny how they're so unorganized that the biggest threat against them is their own incompetence.

But some people here got it all wrong. The most harmful thing they do is throwing stink bombs. They're not endangering anyone's life. Labeling them as "terrorists" is completely ignorant. They're not trying to cause terror neither are they inflicting any direct damage. They're main and most powerful weapons are the cameras and they're main goal is to move the public opinion.

Did you miss the part where they rammed into one of the whaling ships? That's a very interesting definition of "direct damage" you have.
Errr.... their boat who "rammed" them was stopped :S Just... floating still.. and they rammed the other ship? There's video evidence everywhere. Among the world's media there's reports blaming one side, reports blaming another and reports blaming both.
You're just blindly quoting the whaler's version of the story. While I didn't watch those episodes I did read about it and saw the collision videos on youtube.

A quick google search came up with this:



It kinda looks to be in motion, but then again I'm just blindly quoting the whaler's version of the story.
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