EPT20 years since Tiananmen - Page 7
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Cali
139 Posts
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fearus
China2164 Posts
On June 08 2009 12:52 Cali wrote: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government; except all the others that have been tried." - Winston Churchill When Winston said this Communism was still in its trial stages. | ||
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MK
United States496 Posts
On June 08 2009 12:58 fearus wrote: When Winston said this Communism was still in its trial stages. was ? it still is. | ||
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
I met a UK expat who has been going to these peaceful protests ever since it started, and he works as a freelance photographer on the side of his main job. I also met an old old man who told me that more young people need to be informed and it is good that I am here to listen. This year many people also went because our Chief Executive (Basically president/regent if you will) said that he represents the Hong Kong people when he says that (paraphrasing) we should stop bitching about 6/4 because if the lives lost resulted in China's economic growth, then it was totally worth it and we should forget the past to promote a harmonious society. Which caused humongous backlash from angry citizens who felt that he was just kowtowing and sucking the balls of the chinese government as a political move. Many people also accuse him of selling his conscience (rofl lots of angry old grandpas/grandmas). And as a result the broke democratic party got a lot more donations that they usually do =p. Funny how things work out. Now the plan is to keep 6/4 talk/rhetoric around long enough for the July 1st Annual General Protest against Communist Gov. Each year it is about slightly different issues but always mainly about freedom and human rights. Everyone starts at the local popular park and walks/mulls through to the shopping district and into the financial district and finally to the Gov. headquarters where they stay till late night and continue to yell chants and make a lot of noise. Whereby people disperse and the next day the police ridiculously under report the number of protesters and the organizers probably include every bystander and extended family member of protesters and over report the numbers XD. And slightly off topic but still interesting: River Crabs!!! + Show Spoiler + River crab (simplified Chinese: 河蟹; pinyin: héxiè), as an internet slang created by netizens in Mainland China, is a reference to Internet censorship in the People's Republic of China. The word river crab sounds similar to the word harmonious (simplified Chinese: 和谐; pinyin: héxié) in Chinese Mandarin. The three wristwatches refer to the Three Represents, where 代表 "represent" and 戴表 "to wear a watch" are homophones. Because the Chinese Communist Party announced the goal of constructing a "Harmonious Society" (simplified Chinese: 和谐社会) in 2004 and the government of Mainland China usually takes this for reason to delete negative news, Chinese netizens use the name river crab to describe the actions of blockading and covering negative news. Sometimes aquatic product (simplified Chinese: 水产) is used as the same meaning of river crab as an internet slang. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/%E6%B2%B3%E8%9F%B9%E6%88%B4%E8%A1%A8.jpg) Grass Mud Horse + Show Spoiler + Cao Ni Ma (Chinese: 草泥马), literally "Grass Mud Horse", was supposedly a species of alpaca. The name is derived from cào nǐ mā (Chinese: 肏你妈), which translates to "fuck your mother". Note that the comparison with the "animal" name is not an actual homophone, but rather the two terms have the same consonants and vowels with different tones, which are represented by different characters. Their greatest enemy are "river crabs" (Chinese: 河蟹, Pinyin: héxiè, resembles 和谐 héxié meaning "harmony", referring to government censorship to create a "harmonious society", while noting that river crabs are depicted wearing three wristwatches, vaguely referring to the Three Represents, where 代表 "represent" and 戴表 "to wear a watch" are homophones), and are said to be frequently seen in combat against these crabs. The Baidu 10 Mythical Creatures, A Chinese Internet Meme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baidu_10_Mythical_Creatures_(Internet_meme) ^^ My personal fave is the butterfly referencing "Yamete!!!" in Japanese porn XD. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 08 2009 12:58 fearus wrote: When Winston said this Communism was still in its trial stages. And he wasn't disproven. Communism was still in its infant stages when Hayek wrote about the dangers of collectivism (in response to nationalist socialism in Germany) and he wasn't disproven either. | ||
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MK
United States496 Posts
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fearus
China2164 Posts
Many woudl consider the fall of the soviet to be the end of it. China is probably 1 of the more capitalist countries around the block. | ||
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fearus
China2164 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:01 Jibba wrote: And he wasn't disproven. Communism was still in its infant stages when Hayek wrote about the dangers of collectivism (in response to nationalist socialism in Germany) and he wasn't disproven either. Isn't collectivism the whole foundation of democracy? | ||
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MK
United States496 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:07 fearus wrote: Many woudl consider the fall of the soviet to be the end of it. China is probably 1 of the more capitalist countries around the block. well, prolly. But what I wanna say is China can't just copy/paste like that. I mean even for communism, it has its own style. China can't just develop by trying to do like the USA or Japan. Because China is too big and time has changed. Before, you could put 500 guys doing handwork and pay them 1 cent hour, no other country will shit on you. Now, it changed. Before, you could use as much gaz/oil and not giving a damn about pollution, now, you have to care. Before, you could think about your own country, now, you have to think global. I believe China has to invent something new from itself to, well, survive. No matter if it's told Democracy or Communism, the fact is : China has to do its own way and China is trying. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:13 fearus wrote: Isn't collectivism the whole foundation of democracy? Democracy can be collectivist, but it doesn't last long. The tyranny of the majority is obviously talked about quite a bit, but that's why Rouseau's social contract sucks. Collectivism is not the basis of it though, since it's not simply about doing things collectively. Communism is an economic system more than a political system, so it should be compared with capitalism instead. | ||
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MK
United States496 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:35 Jibba wrote: Democracy can be collectivist, but it doesn't last long. The tyranny of the majority is obviously talked about quite a bit, but that's why Rouseau's social contract sucks. Collectivism is not the basis of it though, since it's not simply about doing things collectively. Communism is an economic system more than a political system, so it should be compared with capitalism instead. agreed. | ||
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Rakanishu2
United States475 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:35 Jibba wrote: Democracy can be collectivist, but it doesn't last long. The tyranny of the majority is obviously talked about quite a bit, but that's why Rouseau's social contract sucks. Collectivism is not the basis of it though, since it's not simply about doing things collectively. Communism is an economic system more than a political system, so it should be compared with capitalism instead. ^This I know the lines between politics and economics can blur sometimes, but people compare democracy and communism far too often. What if we wanted society that was democratic and Communist? It could be done! They are not mutually exclusive. | ||
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:46 Rakanishu2 wrote: What if we wanted society that was democratic and Communist? It could be done! They are not mutually exclusive. This is a very good point. But democracy inculcates individualism, as I've stated back in the other post, while Communism breeds a single-minded force. I'm pretty sure these two ideals will collide in an ugly way. | ||
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panda_inc
Australia170 Posts
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MK
United States496 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:56 panda_inc wrote: LoL when i play civilization 3 my civic is always democratic communist ahahaha Yeah, we should let CPU run all these things. | ||
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Rakanishu2
United States475 Posts
That's called an autocracy, Its also called THE MATRIX. my cpu is a neural net processor. A learning computer. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:56 panda_inc wrote: LoL when i play civilization 3 my civic is always democratic communist ahahaha Communism sucks in Civ3 like in real life. Too much corruption. ;D | ||
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NonFactor
Sweden698 Posts
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
On June 08 2009 12:59 Railxp wrote: i was actually at the hong kong candlelight demonstration last year, although turn out this year is a lot higher due to 20th anniversary. They gave me a candle and a cone thing to block the wind and someone else lit my candle for me and i also passed my little flame around. Was quite fun/had a sense of meaning to the action. In any case it was mostly an info session for the young with some angry old people yelling "Never forget!" I met a UK expat who has been going to these peaceful protests ever since it started, and he works as a freelance photographer on the side of his main job. I also met an old old man who told me that more young people need to be informed and it is good that I am here to listen. This year many people also went because our Chief Executive (Basically president/regent if you will) said that he represents the Hong Kong people when he says that (paraphrasing) we should stop bitching about 6/4 because if the lives lost resulted in China's economic growth, then it was totally worth it and we should forget the past to promote a harmonious society. Which caused humongous backlash from angry citizens who felt that he was just kowtowing and sucking the balls of the chinese government as a political move. Many people also accuse him of selling his conscience (rofl lots of angry old grandpas/grandmas). And as a result the broke democratic party got a lot more donations that they usually do =p. Funny how things work out. Now the plan is to keep 6/4 talk/rhetoric around long enough for the July 1st Annual General Protest against Communist Gov. Each year it is about slightly different issues but always mainly about freedom and human rights. Everyone starts at the local popular park and walks/mulls through to the shopping district and into the financial district and finally to the Gov. headquarters where they stay till late night and continue to yell chants and make a lot of noise. Whereby people disperse and the next day the police ridiculously under report the number of protesters and the organizers probably include every bystander and extended family member of protesters and over report the numbers XD. And slightly off topic but still interesting: River Crabs!!! + Show Spoiler + River crab (simplified Chinese: 河蟹; pinyin: héxiè), as an internet slang created by netizens in Mainland China, is a reference to Internet censorship in the People's Republic of China. The word river crab sounds similar to the word harmonious (simplified Chinese: 和谐; pinyin: héxié) in Chinese Mandarin. The three wristwatches refer to the Three Represents, where 代表 "represent" and 戴表 "to wear a watch" are homophones. Because the Chinese Communist Party announced the goal of constructing a "Harmonious Society" (simplified Chinese: 和谐社会) in 2004 and the government of Mainland China usually takes this for reason to delete negative news, Chinese netizens use the name river crab to describe the actions of blockading and covering negative news. Sometimes aquatic product (simplified Chinese: 水产) is used as the same meaning of river crab as an internet slang. Grass Mud Horse + Show Spoiler + Cao Ni Ma (Chinese: 草泥马), literally "Grass Mud Horse", was supposedly a species of alpaca. The name is derived from cào nǐ mā (Chinese: 肏你妈), which translates to "fuck your mother". Note that the comparison with the "animal" name is not an actual homophone, but rather the two terms have the same consonants and vowels with different tones, which are represented by different characters. Their greatest enemy are "river crabs" (Chinese: 河蟹, Pinyin: héxiè, resembles 和谐 héxié meaning "harmony", referring to government censorship to create a "harmonious society", while noting that river crabs are depicted wearing three wristwatches, vaguely referring to the Three Represents, where 代表 "represent" and 戴表 "to wear a watch" are homophones), and are said to be frequently seen in combat against these crabs. The Baidu 10 Mythical Creatures, A Chinese Internet Meme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baidu_10_Mythical_Creatures_(Internet_meme) ^^ My personal fave is the butterfly referencing "Yamete!!!" in Japanese porn XD. Hahahahahaha... Oh man, i knew about the river crab but never knew the background behind this. I was always wondering why that 4ch horse thingy is all over Chinese boards. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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