EPTLiberal Press Bias - Page 21
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
I think a more useful definition of racism is when you treat a person differently/worse solely because of his race. | ||
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aRod
United States758 Posts
I think everyone agrees the vast majority of differences in behavior are accounted for in cultural differences. Would you agree with the consensus that there is more variation within a race than between races for any specific mental or ethical trait? I could site numerous studies for this. It is not clear that Blacks have higher testosterone because of their race. Could it be the environment and culture we see in many black communities that influences the testosterone levels? Could it be the food? Could it be the bigger testicles? To what extent does testosterone influence character? Are there other traits amongst blacks that influence their behavior that counteract the elevated effects of testosterone? Maybee their testosterone receptors aren't as sensitive? I don't think anyone knows the answers to these questions with any large degree of certainty. Ultimately people call you a racist because you come off as too certain that race dramatically influences character/behavior. There isn't any strong evidence for such a dramatic influence. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
Now, I dont know where you live, but here in Brazil, I think its an accurate statistic to say that 90% mugs and etc... are black coming from the slums. So would you judging by his color and clothes that hes gonna rob you be racist ? | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On December 08 2008 03:17 D10 wrote: What about this, you are walking in a dangerous neighborhood, and some tatooed strong black guy with ragged clothes is coming your direction, the streets are empty, and theres little light Now, I dont know where you live, but here in Brazil, I think its an accurate statistic to say that 90% mugs and etc... are black coming from the slums. So would you judging by his color and clothes that hes gonna rob you be racist ? more like sociological factors It has to do with where they live, how much money they got, what kind of jobs are available, whats the family support like. Not race. I'm pretty sure if you raised a white baby and a black baby in the exact same conditions, one wouldn't be more predisposed to crime than the other | ||
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aRod
United States758 Posts
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On December 08 2008 03:08 aRod wrote: I think the suggestion that there may be genetic components to human character is extremely valid. This is exactly what I mean by the phrase "race results in differences in human character." In other words, the sum of a persons genetics/inherited traits causes or manifests discrepancies in human behavior, beliefs, and ethics. I would argue that yes this occurs, but in a mild or nearly insignificant way. I'm not an outright biological determinist, but I do think that genes play a bigger role than is commonly assumed. I think everyone agrees the vast majority of differences in behavior are accounted for in cultural differences. Would you agree with the consensus that there is more variation within a race than between races for any specific mental or ethical trait? I could site numerous studies for this. For most traits, yes, but there's a catch. Let's take intelligence for example (I know it's a very touchy issue but this is a fucking Starcraft forum). The current iq test data basically says that the black average is 85 and the asian average is 105. It means quite a few blacks are smarter than the average asian, and quite a few asians are dumber than the average black. BUT (and here is the crucial neglected part) it is also true that both asians and blacks have roughly the same standard deviation (~15 on this scale). Let's say (I know this is a gross oversimplification) that you need ~120 iq to be really successful in the modern information economy. According to a googled normal distribution table, this says that roghly 16% of asians fall into this category, while only 1% of blacks do. This means that SIXTEEN TIMES AS MANY asians will be really successful (in proportion to their total population) as blacks, for reasons that have little or nothing to do with racism, and have quite a bit to do with genetics. It considerably weakens the argument that blacks are not achieving because they are kept down by white oppression. It is not clear that Blacks have higher testosterone because of their race. Could it be the environment and culture we see in many black communities that influences the testosterone levels? Could it be the food? Could it be the bigger testicles? To what extent does testosterone influence character? Are there other traits amongst blacks that influence their behavior that counteract the elevated effects of testosterone? Maybee their testosterone receptors aren't as sensitive? I don't think anyone knows the answers to these questions with any large degree of certainty. True, but that was just one throwaway example. FWIW as far as I remember blacks have *more* sensitive testosterone receptors actually. It also explains their success in many sports, and may explain disproportionate black crime (though here it is probably 90% culture). Ultimately people call you a racist because you come off as too certain that race dramatically influences character/behavior. There isn't any strong evidence for such a dramatic influence. IMO it is stronger than commonly assumed. | ||
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Wysp
Canada2299 Posts
On December 08 2008 02:10 HnR)hT wrote: But in fact VERY FEW women are physically and mentally capable. That's why they are held to much lower standards on physical tests. And even more importantly, they ruin unit cohesion. The romantic attachments and love triangles that will inevitably result are the LAST things you want in an effective combat team. Many, many women are physically and mentally capable of warfare. You also seem to forget that women are EVERYWHERE in combat zones. The whole point of this dumb rule is that women shouldn't be expected to kill. WOMEN CAN KILL AS WELL AS MEN. Also, are they going to be having group sex during the engagement or is it going to be the social consequences of these triangles that undermines the military's integrity? The women are all ready there dip shit, if your cynical redneck outlook is true you perhaps need to take a more reactionary stance because your worst nightmare is manifest. Sometimes two idiots break the rules at work. Being involved in life of military members my whole life I know they take their work very seriously. You think that every person in the military is such a cunt that they fuck like animals and eat shit? Shit eating animals would be a bad military but I don't think this describes the members of the Canadian or American military. Sometimes two idiots will pork at work and get fired, the terrorists don't win. | ||
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Wysp
Canada2299 Posts
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
On December 08 2008 03:17 D10 wrote: What about this, you are walking in a dangerous neighborhood, and some tatooed strong black guy with ragged clothes is coming your direction, the streets are empty, and theres little light Now, I dont know where you live, but here in Brazil, I think its an accurate statistic to say that 90% mugs and etc... are black coming from the slums. So would you judging by his color and clothes that hes gonna rob you be racist ? The point is, if you saw a rich, black executive in a suit in a fortune 500 company -- would you expect HIM to rob you? If yes, you're a fucking racist. If no, you're a hypocrite based on the question you just asked. Crime is motivated by economics, just like most things in this world. There are poor as hell white single moms that raised children to be criminals, trust me. Conservatism is aimed at KEEPING THE POWER with the people who currently have the power. Older, white men. But this country isn't populated the same way as it was 50 years ago, or 100 years ago. Policies and cultures change, and there is nothing stopping conservatism from eroding away unless the people in power get so much power that they overturn the immigration laws, the economic laws, and the ability for class movement. Edit: That IQ post is fucking horrible. Asians have better IQ because they have better parenting and a culture of fiscal responsibility. This means that Asian families tend to save much more money, which leads their children to have more education possibilities. IQ is not a measurement of your genetic intelligence. You should go back and study your attitude compared to some of the founding fathers' attitudes to slavery. Ridiculously similar. Go check out Phillis Wheatley's (One of the first slave poets) TRIAL in which she had to prove to 14 white men (jurors, politicians, scientists) that she was in fact the actual author of her works by answering obscure cultural, scientific, and religious questions. She was in fact determined to be the author, but it was determined she was "unique" and not proof that slaves were capable of becoming poets or scientists. Rather, it was an aberration in her genetics that allowed her to acquire knowledge that no other black slave could have acquired. | ||
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On December 08 2008 03:40 Wysp wrote: The women are all ready there dip shit, if your cynical redneck outlook is true you perhaps need to take a more reactionary stance because your worst nightmare is manifest. Insulting garbage ignored. | ||
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Wysp
Canada2299 Posts
I'm forced to align you with rednecks as from my experience they share your point of view. garbage intellect ignored. | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On December 08 2008 00:16 HnR)hT wrote: I would say the most important goal of modern liberalism is hyper-individualism and non-discrimination at any cost, even when it leads to absurd results like women in combat, widespread race- and sex-based affirmative action, harsh speech codes and mandatory sensitivity training workshops, or national suicide through uncontrolled mass immigration. Conservatives understand the restrictiveness of human nature, the importance of culture, ancestral wisdom and loyalty to one's family and country. Of course many modern rank-and-file "conservatives" don't fit this characterization of conservatism. On December 08 2008 02:10 HnR)hT wrote: But in fact VERY FEW women are physically and mentally capable. That's why they are held to much lower standards on physical tests. And even more importantly, they ruin unit cohesion. The romantic attachments and love triangles that will inevitably result are the LAST things you want in an effective combat team. You seem very confused. Despite your obvious misogynistic views, why is this even a big issue in the first place? Are gays in the military a problem too? I like how you just throw terms like affirmative action out there like they're necessarily bad, as well. Do you not understand that the purpose of these programs is to give portions of society that have been historically held down by discrimination a better opportunity to succeed in a society stacked against them? The rest of your rant is very telling - "harsh speech codes and mandatory sensitivity training workshops, or national suicide through uncontrolled mass immigration". You're like Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs all rolled up into one doomsaying end-of-times racist. Clearly these are the real issues today restricting our freedoms, not all that silliness about suspending habeas corpus, warrantless wiretapping, and the patriot act! | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
You're like Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs all rolled up into one hahahaha, well thank you  | ||
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Wysp
Canada2299 Posts
Let there be no mistake, I respect few things more than a thoroughly tested generalization. Research into the effects of genes and environment in the formation of a human being is a field we have barely begun to empirically hammer out yet. The reason? Its impossible to do the most efficient tests. The most efficient test would be produced by the controlled raising of human children with the sole purpose of using them as test subjects for this type of research. If we could do this we could reach conclusions as strong as you propose. Unfortunately we aren't monsters, so we'll all have to continue to treat everyone as an equal human being. | ||
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aRod
United States758 Posts
Ultimately we can go back in forth like this with any number of examples. You site some difference in scores/behavior,/traits and I'll ask you how the culture/society/wealth vs. poverty has been shown to correlate with these elements. I hope we can agree that there isn't strong evidence either way and it is too difficult to account for societal differences with any statistical analysis to accurately report race strongly influences behavior. I would never be so quick to believe in the concrete cause and effect relationships with something as complex as human behavior/character. Wysp point about the lack of empirical testing is extremely valid. I have to go on a trip now, I will catch up on this in 6 hours or so. | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
This entire thread is a microcosm of those same kind of 'logic'. It speaks: 'I've come to my conclusions, and now I'm going to find any evidence I can backing them up, while ignoring evidence to the contrary'. Whereas the scientific method is the complete opposite, of course. It's impossible to argue when you can't even agree on the framework, which is why discussions like this hardly ever go anywhere. | ||
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On December 08 2008 03:59 aRod wrote: The genetic influence may be stronger than commonly assumed, but there is no good evidence that supports this notion. Your IQ example doesn't account for societal differences. How do the IQs interrelate between Blacks and Asians that come from different levels of poverty and wealth? How does the increased emphasis on studying prominent in Asian cultures influence IQ as supposed to the emphasis or rap music and sex in certain elements of American Black culture? Ultimately we can go back in forth like this with any number of examples. You site some difference in scores/behavior,/traits and I'll ask you how the culture/society/wealth vs. poverty has been shown to correlate with these elements. I hope we can agree that there isn't strong evidence either way and it is too difficult to account for societal differences with any statistical analysis to accurately report race strongly influences behavior. I would never be so quick to believe in the concrete cause and effect relationships with something as complex as human behavior/character. Wysp point about the lack of empirical testing is extremely valid. I have to go on a trip now, I will catch up on this in 6 hours or so. I think there is much more evidence than you seem to realize. This is a great (but long) article to get an overview of what we actually do know. If you were smart you'd complain about my science. You choose you align yourself with white supremists and anti-semites, who share the same point of view as you What a joke. This will be my last post at least for today. | ||
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Wysp
Canada2299 Posts
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2687364.ece hahaha, you link us to a lying propaganda site. edit: Why are racists always lazy? They never check any facts in anything that agrees with them. | ||
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