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So I was listening to a Nightwish CD and I didn't know the name of one of the songs (even though I own the CD, I don't tote around the CD case. I looked it up and found my answer on Wiki, as well as some links regarding the now old news drama of the Tarja/Nightwish split.
I had always been under the impression that what happened was Tarja's fault and/or her husband's fault, but looking at everything I've read now, it seems like that's not really the case. It seems to me like Tarja was never really considered a part of the band, just a "guest singer." Something Tarja's husband said really struck me:
During a concert in Guadalajara, Mexico, in the first South American tour in year 2000, happened an incident that caused me a very weird impression of the band members.
A fan came on stage from behind and attacked Tarja while she was performing. As soon as I could, I grabbed the guy, took him out of the stage and put him in the hands of the security. After doing this, I realised that the band was not performing any more.
I run to the back stage area and I crossed the band members on their way out.
Last one in the line was Sami who asked me to stay with Tarja.
I didn't know what was going on and I did not understand what he meant by saying that. Only until I got in the backstage and saw Tarja crying and in shock.
It was very strange to me that the band members left her alone and asked me to comfort her instead of them. Me, who have known Tarja for not longer than 9 days!
I know that all of this is old news, but I'm wondering what people's opinions are on the whole mess?
For those who aren't familiar with this or know very little, you can find Nightwish's open letter dismissing Tarja from the band here:
http://www.nightwish.com/en/article/6
Tarja's open letter reply here:
http://tarjafans.deviantart.com/journal/6878751/
Tarja's husband's remarks here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070809231523/http://www.tarjaturunen.com/message.html
Tarja's husband answering questions here (this one is VERY long):
http://web.archive.org/web/20070703211904/http://www.tarjaturunen.com/fans.html
Poll: Who/what do you think was to blame?
(Vote): Tarja
(Vote): Tarja's husband
(Vote): Nightwish
(Vote): Tuomas
(Vote): Tuomas and Tarja both
(Vote): A general lack of communication
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the link for tarja's reply letter is the same as the link dismissing her
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Did you not hear about the comment that Tarja never "needed" nightwish coming from her?
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never heard of nightwish...........are they an emo band?
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On September 08 2008 07:05 Vin{MBL} wrote:
the link for tarja's reply letter is the same as the link dismissing her
Fixed. Thanks.
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They have every right to kick Tarja but doing it in an open letter is kind of lame. If Tarja decided to accept it it should be a private matter and they can say it's a "mutual split." There's really no need to say "You're fired and here's why" to the whole world unless she starts throwing accusations around.
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On September 08 2008 07:11 sqwert wrote:
never heard of nightwish...........are they an emo band?
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On September 08 2008 07:05 Aurious wrote:
Did you not hear about the comment that Tarja never "needed" nightwish coming from her?
Do you not realize how bad the relationship was before then even, or are you going to choose to ignore everything she says because of what Tuomas said she said?
Edit: I think the portrayal of them being friends and that Tarja stopped being their friend because of her relationship is totally wrong. For instance,
I met Tarja and the band at the same time in year 2000.
The problems within the band have existed long before I came in the picture.
In the South American tour in 2000, a Brazilian friend that worked with the band in the shows before I met them, already informed me that Tarja was always alone and that nobody was taking care of her. Tarja got sick in Sao Paulo and he needed to take her to the hospital. No band member or manager was with her at all.
I was able myself to see that during the remaining days of the tour since I met them, it was a fact that Tarja was even going alone to walk during day time.
She was not joining the band members in any parties, but just showing herself at breakfast or lunchtime or whenever she was requested from the local promoters.
During the tour Tarja already trusted me how bad she was feeling with the situation within the band.
If I shouldn't have reminded about her great achievements with the band or discussed about what the future should bring for her, I do believe that the breakdown, as you called it, wouldn't have happened now, but already many years ago.
I haven't voted in this yet myself, partly because I have nowhere near finished the response Tarja's husband gave. But if even half of these things were true, then I kind of feel like Nightwish relied heavily on her being a great singer who wasn't well known, someone who would be dependent on them.
Why did Tarja say those things to Tuomas? I don't know why, or if she even did, but most likely she had a reason for saying them. I cannot help but wonder what the full conversation was. Did she say she doesn't need Nightwish because she was being a diva, or did she say it because Tuomas was saying that without Nightwish, she would be nothing?
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On September 08 2008 07:15 BlackJack wrote:
They have every right to kick Tarja but doing it in an open letter is kind of lame. If Tarja decided to accept it it should be a private matter and they can say it's a "mutual split." There's really no need to say "You're fired and here's why" to the whole world unless she starts throwing accusations around.
imo the way she was acting ( saying Nightwish was nothing without her and shiz) was a good enough reason to do that
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they should squash it and join up again :D
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Have they produced anything that sounds good without her? o_O)?
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Oh god I remember this, Tarja is basically a fucking bitch, end of story.
Also nightwish sucks now, and they weren't that great to begin with.
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On September 08 2008 07:43 [GiTM]-Ace wrote:
they should squash it and join up again :D
These kind of people are immature babies, the only way for that to happen is a potential shitload of money.
I appreciate the music but so many of these rockstars never grew up.
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On September 08 2008 07:49 Frits wrote:
Oh god I remember this, Tarja is basically a fucking bitch, end of story.
Also nightwish sucks now, and they weren't that great to begin with.
Reading what Tarja's husband has to say and his interpretation of events, I'm really feeling like the biggest bitch was Tuomas. I don't think Tarja was all in the right -- I think she made a lot of mistakes and she sounds needy -- but Tuomas never considered her feelings even though supposedly he was in love with her.
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I couldnt stand tarjas voice in but a few songs since while she does opera I detect few traces of motion in her tunes as would be somewhat required to perform.
I truly prefer the NW/Strato sound with their new singstress. Granted her voice dosent hold up to good live, but hey, neither does kai hansens.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
gimmick bands and drama seem to go hand-in-hand
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I like within Temptation, lacuna coil and epica but i can't bring myself to like nightwish. I've read into this drama with tarja and it sounds totaly her fault. But that band has gone through so many members that maybe its just the group as a whole's fault.
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Dude, I want your problems, seriously. Listen to Chimaira instead, apart from you, no crying girls guaranteed.. 
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On September 08 2008 07:48 MYM.Testie wrote:
Have they produced anything that sounds good without her? o_O)?
well seeing as they haven't put out much it's hard to say. the new singer is quite different than tarjas, but personally i like her voice. i wasn't too big of a fan of tarjas voice and singing style but i still liked nightwish, and still do.
as for the 'drama' regarding tarja leaving the band, or being kicked out, however it went, i don't think it really matters. people change bands, get kicked, bands disband, etc. all the time, it's hardly something to make a big deal out of, regardless of how it happend. i realize this is mostly for people that are fans and want to know what happend but still, no reason to make it anything more than she is no longer in the band, leave it at that and move the fuck on.
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On September 08 2008 07:06 Djabanete wrote:
replay?
lol
i prefer the vocals of the new girl, NW still makes some great music and thats what matters to me.
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Nightwish is awesome too bad about this
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On September 08 2008 08:42 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 07:48 MYM.Testie wrote:
Have they produced anything that sounds good without her? o_O)? well seeing as they haven't put out much it's hard to say. the new singer is quite different than tarjas, but personally i like her voice. i wasn't too big of a fan of tarjas voice and singing style but i still liked nightwish, and still do. as for the 'drama' regarding tarja leaving the band, or being kicked out, however it went, i don't think it really matters. people change bands, get kicked, bands disband, etc. all the time, it's hardly something to make a big deal out of, regardless of how it happend. i realize this is mostly for people that are fans and want to know what happend but still, no reason to make it anything more than she is no longer in the band, leave it at that and move the fuck on.
Problem with nightwish though is that Tarja basically IS nightwish, the rest are not really that special.
Their lyrics surpass abonimable, the solos are not anything noteworthy, overall the songs are okay but Tarja was really the only thing that made them stand out.
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On September 08 2008 08:42 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 07:48 MYM.Testie wrote:
Have they produced anything that sounds good without her? o_O)? well seeing as they haven't put out much it's hard to say. the new singer is quite different than tarjas, but personally i like her voice. i wasn't too big of a fan of tarjas voice and singing style but i still liked nightwish, and still do. as for the 'drama' regarding tarja leaving the band, or being kicked out, however it went, i don't think it really matters. people change bands, get kicked, bands disband, etc. all the time, it's hardly something to make a big deal out of, regardless of how it happend. i realize this is mostly for people that are fans and want to know what happend but still, no reason to make it anything more than she is no longer in the band, leave it at that and move the fuck on.
That's just it. Normally it should go like that. The whole open letter bit was a carefully coordinated ploy to make sure that Nightwish wouldn't lose too much of its fanbase after Tarja left.
Even after the open letter, Tuomas and his lackeys continued speaking negatively about Tarja and they got the media on their side. Judging by how many people have only read what Nightwish wrote and automatically dismiss everything Tarja and her husband have said (and won't even read it), it seems apparent to me that most people are just bought off by the media, of which Tuomas held the far bigger share.
I promised that everything was going to be answered.
To cut a long story short, in October 2004 I needed to ask Tuomas to come to talk to Tarja and me in our hotel room in the middle of the tour.
Even though he knows Tarja many years before me, he never could achieve his goal.
In this meeting I clearly told him that his chances to be with Tarja were gone.
I needed to tell him that there was no reason to keep on trying any longer, since I married her.
As usual he didn't speak much, but he said to me that nobody was going to be able to stop his love for Tarja.
After this unhappy meeting, everything changed.
The guy that until then said in interviews that, without Tarja, that would be the end of Nightwish, changed his message into: Nightwish is my band, my music, my lyrics, the scenery of my soul.
Is up to you to check all interviews from the band before and after end of 2004 until today.
Tarja never changed her thoughts about her position in the band.
She has never mentioned that Nightwish was her band or that she was more important than the other band members.
Nightwish lyrics are Tuomas' life diary, as it has been said. With this new information that I am sharing with you, please check once again some of them. We all can find amazing songs with beautiful lyrics full of poetry. Their meaning won't remain that uncertain any longer.
Is tuomas really a guiltless party?
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sounds so weird non-finnish persons using finnish names at their posts
But this is so old thing, get over it guys :D
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On September 08 2008 09:00 Too_MuchZerg wrote:sounds so weird non-finnish persons using finnish names at their posts But this is so old thing, get over it guys :D
I'm playing devil's advocate. There's no getting over it just yet!
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On September 08 2008 07:11 sqwert wrote:
never heard of nightwish...........are they an emo band?
gothic metal, it's really good
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uhm, this is really old news :O
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On September 08 2008 08:41 d1v wrote:Dude, I want your problems, seriously. Listen to Chimaira instead, apart from you, no crying girls guaranteed..
Dude, I just posted some bands that i liked better then nightwish that also fit into the same genre. Don't just asume that I don't listen to any other types of music because I have my own black metal library 
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I actually rather the new singer. Im glad all this happened because I wasnt a fan of nightwish when Tarja was around
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On September 08 2008 08:49 Frits wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 08:42 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:On September 08 2008 07:48 MYM.Testie wrote:
Have they produced anything that sounds good without her? o_O)? well seeing as they haven't put out much it's hard to say. the new singer is quite different than tarjas, but personally i like her voice. i wasn't too big of a fan of tarjas voice and singing style but i still liked nightwish, and still do. as for the 'drama' regarding tarja leaving the band, or being kicked out, however it went, i don't think it really matters. people change bands, get kicked, bands disband, etc. all the time, it's hardly something to make a big deal out of, regardless of how it happend. i realize this is mostly for people that are fans and want to know what happend but still, no reason to make it anything more than she is no longer in the band, leave it at that and move the fuck on. Problem with nightwish though is that Tarja basically IS nightwish, the rest are not really that special. Their lyrics surpass abonimable, the solos are not anything noteworthy, overall the songs are okay but Tarja was really the only thing that made them stand out.
I agree with this one. She's the one who gives Nightwish it's personality - and she had such a great voice! I hate the new singer's strange yodeling because she has way less range than Tarja. Tarja had an epic singing voice, it was just great Although the new singer isn't bad, Nightwish was defined by Tarja and I really liked Tarja much more.
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I don't really understand how people can prefer Annette. She can only sing with a "pop" kind of sound -- anything else requires too much vocal range, too much voice control, and/or too much voice power. If you know much about singing, then you know just how much easier it is to sing pop. It has to be easy, otherwise people like Britney Spears could not become famous.
Annette isn't terrible -- unless she tries to sing the old Nightwish, which is often times hard to sing. You will never again here a good live performance of the greatest hits that defined Nightwish. Annette could easily fit in as a lead singer of most bands, but her role in Nightwish can never be the same as Tarja's.
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On September 08 2008 09:59 HeavOnEarth wrote:
uhm, this is really old news :O
No shit Sherlock. I'm glad you noticed. I only said as much in my first post.
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United States11637 Posts
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The new singer is utter crap. Hence why I don't listen to any of the post-tarja songs.
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To me, as to many others Nightwish really was defined by Tarja's voice, and just as others said, their new singer isn't bad at all, in fact she's really good - but she's just overshadowed by Tarja's past presence, period. The new songs are okay...I even listened to them for a while thinking "hey this doesn't suck as much as I thought it would" but it's missing something that's hard to express.
One recommendation without Tarja would be "While Your Lips Are Still Red" though (that was recorded before NW accepted Anette to the band). Now that's a fucking awesome song.
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United States11637 Posts
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On September 08 2008 07:11 sqwert wrote:
never heard of nightwish...........are they an emo band?
do you know evanescence or in flames? nightwish is basically the same trash
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On September 09 2008 02:35 snowbird wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 07:11 sqwert wrote:
never heard of nightwish...........are they an emo band? do you know evanescence or in flames? nightwish is basically the same trash
...WHAT? Tell me exactly how Sacrament, Kinslayer, or Wishmaster have any sort of relationship to fake metal bands like Evanescence? Or do you just enjoy talking out of your ass?
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I'm really, really late to this Party. And I guess this subject has been played to death too. However whilst Tarja is happy in her solo career and also has reconciled with Marko who had publicly apologised for his part in her mistreatment by the band. It's important not to lose sight that she was very badly treated and there were many parallels in the way she was treated by the band and how Annette was too (history not repeating but certainly rhyming).
Also, and this is what gets to me is by the time of the Helsinki concert we were beginning to see what she was capable of as a singer and them all as a band. Tarja's singing voice is one of the few voices that can really reach the soul and also a almost once in a lifetime voice capability. You only have to see the reaction of the fans as she sang the first bit of Phantom of the Opera. She has so much more to give as part ot the band and thanks to Tuomas' infantile and bitter behaviour along with the other band members we have been deprived of that.
Tuomas told her and her husband that he would always love her. Yet he never went to her aid when she was attacked. He didn't console her afterwards either when she was crying. What a weird guy. And we know that she was lonely and neglected by the band prior to this. So is it any wonder that she falls for a man who loves and cares for her?
Prior to Tarja becoming girlfriend, fiance, then wife to Marcelo, Tuomas and Tarja seemed much more close in many pics and also it was Tuomas and Tarja in interviews and it was 'our' and 'their' band. Afterwards he became distant and NW was 'his band'.
Again the parallels between how the band mistreated Tarja then Annette may not be history repeating itself but it sure does rhyme.
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EPT
