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On January 31 2025 23:45 Billyboy wrote:
He made it X because he thought it was cool and edgy, and that is it. When you think of him like a 13 year old try hard with way to much money everything he does makes a lot more sense (paying people to rank him up in video games, making the Nazi-heart will go out salute and so on).
Also has anyone opinion changed on him after this last couple of weeks? Reddit is sure having a field day with talking about pathetic he is in those game channels getting massively upvoted. But I was not a huge a fan before, but he did become way more of a try hard and more embarassing, before I thought he was just pretty awkward and trying to be cool.
To me it looks like he's going through all the steps of the incel red pill alt right radicalisation stages, but instead of doing that at 20, penniless, futureless and frustrated at society, he's 50, and as rich as Midas. It's both pathetic and deeply concerning at once.
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Germany1309 Posts
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Northern Ireland27471 Posts
Fucking bang on the money that one.
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Enjoyed this article a lot, thanks. I like this way of getting people on your side, by making them realize they already are.
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I beg to differ.
"Watching his Nigel-no-friends attempts to be popular, his endless pathetic tweets that read as though they come from the brain of an 11-year-old poser, has made me start to believe we should bring back bullying."
"It’s time for us to start getting revenge on the nerds."
Elon deserves the online bashing because he completely deserves it, but this kind of messaging is not it.
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It's not messaging, it's rhetoric. She obviously doesn't genuinely think that we should bring back bullying, and the reader understands that.
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United States44401 Posts
There should be negative social consequences for being the kind of person Elon chooses to be. We should invite the kid who is really into board games to parties. He'll probably bring some sick board games with him. We shouldn't invite the loser who spends all his time on 4chan and does "ironic" racism which is weirdly indistinguishable from actual racism. That guy should be bullied. He should be told, both indirectly and directly, that the problem is him and the person he chooses to be. That he should change.
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The language is used in the context of a person people dislike. Anti-Elon bias causes a rationalization of the language. If she was instead talking about someone people do like people would immediately realize what's wrong.
Messaging is important, and this messaging is not it.
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United States44401 Posts
It's not anti Elon bias, it's anti Nazi bias. We don't dislike Elon because of who he is, we dislike him because of what he does. If someone else did what Elon I would also have a problem with them.
People who do what Elon does should be bullied. That's both ethical and necessary for the survival and cohesion of the group. The tribe endures because it has social customs and rules which the tribe enforces through negative social consequences for people who can't follow them.
You've come up with this absurd straw man of anti Elon bias and then jumped to "if this was done to people who didn't deserve it then everyone would see why it was wrong". Yes, and? If prison was done to people who didn't commit crimes then everyone would immediately realize what was wrong. That's not an argument, it's an "if" statement that creates a nonsensical comparison.
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I'm not even arguing with you KwarK. Last time I responded to you was a mistake. See you again in six months.
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Whats there to argue about?
People that are objectively harmfull to the community need to get in line or (and if ully support that) live outside of the community.
You plain can't be part of a community while non stop trying to kill said community.
It's just not how stuff works.
And yes, a community can be horrible... And as a decent person you better gtfo. But in general? If everyone tells you, that your an asshole or "not nice to be around"... Most likely, your just an asshole and not nice to be around.
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Well thb bro, if you invite people that hate you to your party, they might actually start to like you instead of hating you.
If you don’t invite them, they will find likeminded people to hang out with instead and channel their hate togheter.
Hate and bullying just breeds more of the same.
Peace&love to you all
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On February 01 2025 00:07 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2025 23:45 Billyboy wrote:
He made it X because he thought it was cool and edgy, and that is it. When you think of him like a 13 year old try hard with way to much money everything he does makes a lot more sense (paying people to rank him up in video games, making the Nazi-heart will go out salute and so on).
Also has anyone opinion changed on him after this last couple of weeks? Reddit is sure having a field day with talking about pathetic he is in those game channels getting massively upvoted. But I was not a huge a fan before, but he did become way more of a try hard and more embarassing, before I thought he was just pretty awkward and trying to be cool. To me it looks like he's going through all the steps of the incel red pill alt right radicalisation stages, but instead of doing that at 20, penniless, futureless and frustrated at society, he's 50, and as rich as Midas. It's both pathetic and deeply concerning at once.
I'm sure a lot of those people have the same idea of cool as 13 year old tryhards.
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Northern Ireland27471 Posts
On February 01 2025 06:40 Timebon3s wrote:
Well thb bro, if you invite people that hate you to your party, they might actually start to like you instead of hating you.
If you don’t invite them, they will find likeminded people to hang out with instead and channel their hate togheter.
Hate and bullying just breeds more of the same.
Peace&love to you all
My experiences very much go the other way. Invite assholes, or tolerate them in whatever space and you end up just surrounded by assholes ruining one of your cherished spaces.
I’m plenty tolerant, indeed welcoming of folks who are maybe just a bit weird, or have very different worldviews than me. But it’s very obvious very quickly who hides behind the shield of ‘you’re just intolerant of different opinions’ so they can continue to be complete arseholes.
I’m 35 now, this is far from my first rodeo. Many an assumption over the years has proven to be incorrect through the bitter prism of experience.
To the degree I think we would collectively benefit from more bullying and shaming as a society, provided it was very selectively targeted.
The Dead Kennedy’s had the right idea if you ask me. When they noticed a growing number of (actual, open) Neo-Nazi skinhead punks going to their gigs, penning the rather unambiguous song ‘Nazi punks fuck off’
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On February 01 2025 08:03 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2025 06:40 Timebon3s wrote:
Well thb bro, if you invite people that hate you to your party, they might actually start to like you instead of hating you.
If you don’t invite them, they will find likeminded people to hang out with instead and channel their hate togheter.
Hate and bullying just breeds more of the same.
Peace&love to you all My experiences very much go the other way. Invite assholes, or tolerate them in whatever space and you end up just surrounded by assholes ruining one of your cherished spaces. I’m plenty tolerant, indeed welcoming of folks who are maybe just a bit weird, or have very different worldviews than me. But it’s very obvious very quickly who hides behind the shield of ‘you’re just intolerant of different opinions’ so they can continue to be complete arseholes. I’m 35 now, this is far from my first rodeo. Many an assumption over the years has proven to be incorrect through the bitter prism of experience. To the degree I think we would collectively benefit from more bullying and shaming as a society, provided it was very selectively targeted. The Dead Kennedy’s had the right idea if you ask me. When they noticed a growing number of (actual, open) Neo-Nazi skinhead punks going to their gigs, penning the rather unambiguous song ‘Nazi punks fuck off’
That at the end is not bullying, it's gatekeeping. It's gatekeeping done productively. Bullying cannot be productive because its entire purpose is intimidation and abuse, with no greater goal. Bullying exists only for bullying sake.
There's a reason why the term only ever has a negative connotation. It's never used for anything positive.
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On February 01 2025 08:55 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2025 08:03 WombaT wrote:On February 01 2025 06:40 Timebon3s wrote:
Well thb bro, if you invite people that hate you to your party, they might actually start to like you instead of hating you.
If you don’t invite them, they will find likeminded people to hang out with instead and channel their hate togheter.
Hate and bullying just breeds more of the same.
Peace&love to you all My experiences very much go the other way. Invite assholes, or tolerate them in whatever space and you end up just surrounded by assholes ruining one of your cherished spaces. I’m plenty tolerant, indeed welcoming of folks who are maybe just a bit weird, or have very different worldviews than me. But it’s very obvious very quickly who hides behind the shield of ‘you’re just intolerant of different opinions’ so they can continue to be complete arseholes. I’m 35 now, this is far from my first rodeo. Many an assumption over the years has proven to be incorrect through the bitter prism of experience. To the degree I think we would collectively benefit from more bullying and shaming as a society, provided it was very selectively targeted. The Dead Kennedy’s had the right idea if you ask me. When they noticed a growing number of (actual, open) Neo-Nazi skinhead punks going to their gigs, penning the rather unambiguous song ‘Nazi punks fuck off’ That at the end is not bullying, it's gatekeeping. It's gatekeeping done productively. Bullying cannot be productive because its entire purpose is intimidation and abuse, with no greater goal. Bullying exists only for bullying sake. There's a reason why the term only ever has a negative connotation. It's never used for anything positive.
I don't care what you call it so you can sleep better at night. Some well-placed violence makes the world a better place.
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On February 01 2025 03:48 Magic Powers wrote:
The language is used in the context of a person people dislike. Anti-Elon bias causes a rationalization of the language. If she was instead talking about someone people do like people would immediately realize what's wrong.
Messaging is important, and this messaging is not it.
Patton Oswalt has a good side story that is relevant here (and the discussion directly above)
‘I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after- work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”
And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed.
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”
And i was like, ohok and he continues.
“you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.’
Your wording of "anti-elon bias" is kinda hilarious, like objectively by any measure Elon is a genuine shitty person who now is attempting to overthrow our federal government and democracy. Who wouldn't be anti-Elon? Wow youre anti Rasputin?? Uh yeah.
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This conversation is a perfect example of how using loaded language can divide and antagonize people even if they actually agree on the underlying message, and that's why this kind of messaging should not be acceptable even if it's sometimes fun to think about. It's like, I don't know, I think Netanyahu is a war criminal and I wouldn't shed a single tear if he died, but I wouldn't write an article criticizing him with a line saying 'it's time to bring back gas chambers' or something.
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On February 01 2025 12:08 Salazarz wrote:
This conversation is a perfect example of how using loaded language can divide and antagonize people even if they actually agree on the underlying message, and that's why this kind of messaging should not be acceptable even if it's sometimes fun to think about. It's like, I don't know, I think Netanyahu is a war criminal and I wouldn't shed a single tear if he died, but I wouldn't write an article criticizing him with a line saying 'it's time to bring back gas chambers' or something.
Exactly. I've been telling people over and over again that we're often just talking past each other while expressing fundamentally the same thing. Fighting and wasting energy just because of a misunderstanding, which could be avoided by looking at the context in which a word is being used.
When a person says "by bullying in this instance I mean xyz" then everything can be clarified. People can use whichever words they want as long as they know how the word is generally being used. My understanding and that of the general population is that the word "bullying" is always negative, and with that context it should be well understood why I'm against it. If others think bullying can have a greater purpose because it's not always negative then that's all that's required to know that they're not in disagreement over anything other than the meaning of the word.
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On February 01 2025 09:14 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2025 08:55 Magic Powers wrote:On February 01 2025 08:03 WombaT wrote:On February 01 2025 06:40 Timebon3s wrote:
Well thb bro, if you invite people that hate you to your party, they might actually start to like you instead of hating you.
If you don’t invite them, they will find likeminded people to hang out with instead and channel their hate togheter.
Hate and bullying just breeds more of the same.
Peace&love to you all My experiences very much go the other way. Invite assholes, or tolerate them in whatever space and you end up just surrounded by assholes ruining one of your cherished spaces. I’m plenty tolerant, indeed welcoming of folks who are maybe just a bit weird, or have very different worldviews than me. But it’s very obvious very quickly who hides behind the shield of ‘you’re just intolerant of different opinions’ so they can continue to be complete arseholes. I’m 35 now, this is far from my first rodeo. Many an assumption over the years has proven to be incorrect through the bitter prism of experience. To the degree I think we would collectively benefit from more bullying and shaming as a society, provided it was very selectively targeted. The Dead Kennedy’s had the right idea if you ask me. When they noticed a growing number of (actual, open) Neo-Nazi skinhead punks going to their gigs, penning the rather unambiguous song ‘Nazi punks fuck off’ That at the end is not bullying, it's gatekeeping. It's gatekeeping done productively. Bullying cannot be productive because its entire purpose is intimidation and abuse, with no greater goal. Bullying exists only for bullying sake. There's a reason why the term only ever has a negative connotation. It's never used for anything positive. I don't care what you call it so you can sleep better at night. Some well-placed violence makes the world a better place.
I'm assuming that you oppose the bullying of high school nerds. If you choose to "bully" just Elon specifically - however you define that - I'm not stopping you. I hope you understand me better now.
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EPT
