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Gorsameth
Netherlands21687 Posts
On May 18 2025 01:20 GreenHorizons wrote: again, Russia's offer currently on the table is 'we get to genocide all of you in a few years on round 2'. Them holding more land doesn't change anything.Russia will actually control more of the land and would demand even more is one obvious way | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23233 Posts
On May 18 2025 02:00 Falling wrote: That will still happen even if Ukraine capitulated to Russia's 'offer'. That was the condition for a ceasefire, not a peace agreement. So Ukraine withdraws, Russia agrees to a ceasefire, then breaks the ceasefire before we even get to peace negotiations because that's all they've ever done and the war continues but Russia gets to advance past Ukrainian's current defensive positions for free. Look how many lives we have saved! We are the true humanitarians by appeasing conquering tyrants. I can at least see how Russia breaking an ostensible "deal Trump negotiated" could prompt renewed vigor in Western opposition to Putin/support of Ukraine, particularly for Trump. One of Ukraine's few hopes is getting Russia to agree to something Trump takes ownership of so that a breach of it is considered an affront to Trump himself. Though, I wouldn't be surprised to find ourselves at another extreme, trying to prevent Trump and Putin getting in a pissing contest that leads to nuclear annihilation. | ||
Falling
Canada11350 Posts
... oh wait, that last one was Alex Jones. Russia is not coming to the table. Nothing they are doing shows any serious indication that they are willing to negotiate. You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth. Stab his eyes, shoot his head but there's no talk when a tyrannical regime is still bent on conquest. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2620 Posts
From that perspective taking any kind of deal is the only logical choice for Ukraine. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21687 Posts
On May 18 2025 06:57 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: When the deal is "we get to genocide you" the only logical answer is no. No matter the situation.You need to understand that in GHs world Russia is doing great and there is no real cost to this war. Their military industrial complex is doing great, the economy is fine and manpower is unlimited. There are no real problems or trade offs for keeping this up forever, and Russia is significantly more powerful than Ukraine. From that perspective taking any kind of deal is the only logical choice for Ukraine. | ||
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Billyboy
1017 Posts
On May 18 2025 06:57 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: You need to understand that in GHs world Russia is doing great and there is no real cost to this war. Their military industrial complex is doing great, the economy is fine and manpower is unlimited. There are no real problems or trade offs for keeping this up forever, and Russia is significantly more powerful than Ukraine. From that perspective taking any kind of deal is the only logical choice for Ukraine. But Hamas entering Israel and killing >1000 civilians taking hostages and getting all their citizens bombed is good leadership. Ukraine fighting with soldiers protecting their civilians from genocide is irresponsible leadership. Whoever said that GH was poisoned by Russian propaganda is clearly a rightwing plant and should be shit on by everyone on the thread., he is a sensible socialist just looking out for the oppressed..... | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
Ukraine and I am pretty torned about the palestinian crisis, because both sides do not accept two-states solutions and thus dont get my sympathies. Also, Russia comming or not to the table is irrelevant. Putin is a liar. A heavy one. It makes no difference if he negiotiate or not, and if some western guys are still shocked after 3 years of lessons, that means that either they play being dumb or they deserve to be riddiculed for calling Zelensky or eastern european states "politicaly naive". BTW even Vance didn't infuriated me as much as Rubio did today. If you don't want to help, just tell it openly, and not lie that you "must determin if they play the wait game". Right now, you play the wait game. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8080 Posts
On May 18 2025 17:58 Andre wrote: Kinda weird pool. Why do you have to support either Israel or Palestine? That's not a situation that is binary black and white, evil vs good, such as Russia and Ukraine. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11511 Posts
And i have decided to not engage with the whole Israel-Palestine situation a few years back. It is utterly depressing, no one involved and in power is acting in a way that will make stuff better, and it just keeps on going. There seems to be no interest in finding a solution that both sides can be fine with, by any of the sides involved. Since i cannot influence it in any way, it does not help to get ever more depressed about it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On May 18 2025 08:36 Billyboy wrote: But Hamas entering Israel and killing >1000 civilians taking hostages and getting all their citizens bombed is good leadership. Ukraine fighting with soldiers protecting their civilians from genocide is irresponsible leadership. Whoever said that GH was poisoned by Russian propaganda is clearly a rightwing plant and should be shit on by everyone on the thread., he is a sensible socialist just looking out for the oppressed..... Has GH ever expressed those kind of Pro-Hamas sentiments though? I think he’s massively off-base on Russia/Ukraine but I don’t recall him doing that. On May 18 2025 18:16 hitthat wrote: ^ Ukraine and I am pretty torned about the palestinian crisis, because both sides do not accept two-states solutions and thus dont get my sympathies. Also, Russia comming or not to the table is irrelevant. Putin is a liar. A heavy one. It makes no difference if he negiotiate or not, and if some western guys are still shocked after 3 years of lessons, that means that either they play being dumb or they deserve to be riddiculed for calling Zelensky or eastern european states "politicaly naive". BTW even Vance didn't infuriated me as much as Rubio did today. If you don't want to help, just tell it openly, and not lie that you "must determin if they play the wait game". Right now, you play the wait game. Yeah agreed. I don’t expect much from Vance, Rubio I mean I’m not going to politically align, but I expected a bit more statecraft. | ||
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Yurie
11841 Posts
On May 18 2025 19:51 Excludos wrote: Kinda weird pool. Why do you have to support either Israel or Palestine? That's not a situation that is binary black and white, evil vs good, such as Russia and Ukraine. The choices are simple depending on what reason you use to support the stance. If you are against expansionist wars you are pro Ukraine and Palestine. If you are against slow genocide you are against Russia and Israel. If you are against the initial aggressor in a conflict or their political leadership then you are against Russia and the other choice gets messy. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8080 Posts
On May 18 2025 21:50 Yurie wrote: The choices are simple depending on what reason you use to support the stance. If you are against expansionist wars you are pro Ukraine and Palestine. If you are against slow genocide you are against Russia and Israel. If you are against the initial aggressor in a conflict or their political leadership then you are against Russia and the other choice gets messy. Why do you have to be either on the extreme end? Is this what the internet is doing to people? Nuance is dead, you have to chose genoice or expansionism? Come the fuck on Palestine and Hamas have made Israel's lives a misery for a very long time, and at no point should anyone suggest that a country should just sit back "and take it" when it comes to terrorism. At the same time, Israel's hands aren't clean either, using settlements to grab land and escalating conflict. And at the center of it all Iran, supporting terrorism and wanting Israel off the map. It's an extremely complex situation, and anyone pretending like it's black and white easy morally correct "support one or the other" is in my opinion a grand a moron, or arguing in bad faith. | ||
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Yurie
11841 Posts
On May 18 2025 22:02 Excludos wrote: Why do you have to be either on the extreme end? Is this what the internet is doing to people? Nuance is dead, you have to chose genoice or expansionism? Come the fuck on Palestine and Hamas have made Israel's lives a misery for a very long time, and at no point should anyone suggest that a country should just sit back "and take it" when it comes to terrorism. At the same time, Israel's hands aren't clean either, using settlements to grab land and escalating conflict. And at the center of it all Iran, supporting terrorism and wanting Israel off the map. It's an extremely complex situation, and anyone pretending like it's black and white easy morally correct "support one or the other" is in my opinion a grand a moron, or arguing in bad faith. I used the stances I care the most about. Any situation is complex. You could be pro Russia depending on what things you value the most. If you are more in favor of might makes right, great powers are great and we should have competing blocks since that forces stability. Or that you want one global government and countries expanding is how you envision that happening. I was not against Israel retaliating in 2023. Even early 2024 that was valid. We are now in 2025 and most of the actions they are taking are no longer defensible in my eyes. Right now at this moment Israel is the worst actor by far in that conflict. | ||
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Billyboy
1017 Posts
On May 18 2025 20:37 WombaT wrote: Has GH ever expressed those kind of Pro-Hamas sentiments though? I think he’s massively off-base on Russia/Ukraine but I don’t recall him doing that. Yeah agreed. I don’t expect much from Vance, Rubio I mean I’m not going to politically align, but I expected a bit more statecraft. How many times have GH wrote that by simply voting democrat you are "complicit in genocide", like how did you miss this? It would be logical then that he would be against the country who has done shit like stolen a bunch of children to made Russian. I some how missed all the posts about capitulating to greater powers. The reality is GH's entire world outlook boils down to anti US. Whoever is an ally of the US is bad and whoever is against the US is good. All the socialism/capitalism talk is window dressing. I'm actually confused to why this is even at all controversial. Russia is the biggest, most powerful rightwing dictatorship in the world, but that doesn't matter as long as they are against the US. Everyone needs to stop pretending that GH is not the left version of Zeo. | ||
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Yurie
11841 Posts
On May 18 2025 23:10 Billyboy wrote: How many times have GH wrote that by simply voting democrat you are "complicit in genocide", like how did you miss this? It would be logical then that he would be against the country who has done shit like stolen a bunch of children to made Russian. I some how missed all the posts about capitulating to greater powers. The reality is GH's entire world outlook boils down to anti US. Whoever is an ally of the US is bad and whoever is against the US is good. All the socialism/capitalism talk is window dressing. I'm actually confused to why this is even at all controversial. Russia is the biggest, most powerful rightwing dictatorship in the world, but that doesn't matter as long as they are against the US. Everyone needs to stop pretending that GH is not the left version of Zeo. I would argue China is the most powerful right wing dictatorship in the world now a days. They used to be left wing but have switched to right wing, same journey as Russia. Leaving Russia with the biggest, since there can't really be much competition as they are the biggest country. As for the overall point. I would agree GH is more anti USA than he is anything else. But he is also anti capitalism when the first priority isn't relevant. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9198 Posts
On May 18 2025 22:17 Yurie wrote: I used the stances I care the most about. Any situation is complex. You could be pro Russia depending on what things you value the most. If you are more in favor of might makes right, great powers are great and we should have competing blocks since that forces stability. Or that you want one global government and countries expanding is how you envision that happening. I was not against Israel retaliating in 2023. Even early 2024 that was valid. We are now in 2025 and most of the actions they are taking are no longer defensible in my eyes. Right now at this moment Israel is the worst actor by far in that conflict. Isn't this a good reason not to vote in the poll? The situation in Palestine keeps changing while Ukraine remains as black and white as it was in 2022. I think it's hard to blame people for refusing to take a stance when asked to make a simple choice between Israel and Palestine. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On May 18 2025 23:10 Billyboy wrote: How many times have GH wrote that by simply voting democrat you are "complicit in genocide", like how did you miss this? It would be logical then that he would be against the country who has done shit like stolen a bunch of children to made Russian. I some how missed all the posts about capitulating to greater powers. The reality is GH's entire world outlook boils down to anti US. Whoever is an ally of the US is bad and whoever is against the US is good. All the socialism/capitalism talk is window dressing. I'm actually confused to why this is even at all controversial. Russia is the biggest, most powerful rightwing dictatorship in the world, but that doesn't matter as long as they are against the US. Everyone needs to stop pretending that GH is not the left version of Zeo. How does it logically follow that he supports Hamas and considers that ‘good leadership’ Has he expressed anything like that? He’s one of the most criticised, disagreed-with posters on the forum, the idea that people are giving him any kind of pass is ludicrous. Theres plenty of meat there if one wants to criticise. If GH wants to correct me and clarify that he does indeed think Hamas are showing good leadership and October 7th was a sensible idea, he’s more than free to. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9198 Posts
Obviously that's just how I see it, I'm not saying it's some objective truth. | ||
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Billyboy
1017 Posts
On May 18 2025 23:18 Yurie wrote: I would argue China is the most powerful right wing dictatorship in the world now a days. They used to be left wing but have switched to right wing, same journey as Russia. Leaving Russia with the biggest, since there can't really be much competition as they are the biggest country. As for the overall point. I would agree GH is more anti USA than he is anything else. But he is also anti capitalism when the first priority isn't relevant. I can see the argument to both. China is still branding as communist but given their amount of wealth disparity and billionaires it is pretty clear and there is no argument on who is more powerful between them and Russia. And I don't disagree, the only question would be if he is anti capitalist because he's anti capitalist or if it is because the US is proudly capitalist. | ||
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