EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 689
| Forum Index > General Forum |
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
| ||
hexhaven
Finland963 Posts
He was in the news earlier in the spring when the trial started. (also DW) A member of Germany's Bundeswehr went on trial in the western city of Düsseldorf on Monday, charged with espionage activities on behalf of Russia and leaking state secrets. At the start of the trial, the defendant admitted that he had spied for Russia. He said his actions were driven by a fear of a nuclear escalation amid Russia's war in Ukraine. The officer was arrested on August 9 last year and the charges against him were made public on March 19. You'd think he'd at least get some extra cash for his time, but no. Prosecutors say there's no evidence of him receiving payment. Russia is (allegedly) spending a good chunk of cash on espionage activities in Europe, but turns out it's not even needed. | ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17744 Posts
Ukrainian drones falling near Putin's palace. | ||
|
Harris1st
Germany7208 Posts
On May 27 2024 18:49 hexhaven wrote: A German Bundeswehr captain has been sentenced to jail for spying. (DW) He was in the news earlier in the spring when the trial started. (also DW) You'd think he'd at least get some extra cash for his time, but no. Russia is (allegedly) spending a good chunk of cash for espionage activities in Europe, but turns out it's not even needed. Glad they got him though 3 years isn't that much for turning traitor IMO even if his motive is not greed but for "self preservation" | ||
|
hexhaven
Finland963 Posts
Three percent of employees, or about 2.5 million people are affected by this. Soldiers serving in war zones will be exempt. | ||
|
EEk1TwEEk
Russian Federation192 Posts
I"ll ask only 1 question: does anyone believe in Ukraine's victory? | ||
|
0x64
Finland4615 Posts
On June 05 2024 22:23 EEk1TwEEk wrote: Huge amount of western propaganda/ Ill ask only 1 question: does anyone believe in Ukraine's victory? They already won, Russia has disappeared as an economical power, lost all its brainpower and engineers that had the level to leave. Russia chose long term economic disaster. Ukraine chose freedom from that. Propaganda does not make it less true, ask Zeo about it. | ||
|
EEk1TwEEk
Russian Federation192 Posts
On June 05 2024 22:31 0x64 wrote: They already won, Russia has disappeared as an economical power, lost all its brainpower and engineers that had the level to leave. Russia chose long term economic disaster. Ukraine chose freedom from that. Propaganda does not make it less true, ask Zeo about it. Wow))) They already won - how so? Russia has disappeared as an economical power - western european economies are fully dependant on our gas and oil. Russia's GDP in 2024 is expected to grow at the same rate as in 2023, when it expanded by 3.6%. Ukraine chose freedom from that - if they continue the fight they will dissappear from the world map. RIP 1991-2025(6) Propaganda does not make it less true - No comments, dude, that's a delusion. | ||
|
AssiRoyal
Germany216 Posts
Ukraine chose freedom from that - if they continue the fight they will dissappear from the world map. RIP 1991-2025(6) What if they dont continue the fight? I suppose they will live in peace and harmony with their beloved neighbor russia in the borders of 1991? | ||
|
Silvanel
Poland4756 Posts
| ||
KwarK
United States43991 Posts
On June 05 2024 22:38 EEk1TwEEk wrote: Wow))) They already won - how so? Russia has disappeared as an economical power - western european economies are fully dependant on our gas and oil. Russia's GDP in 2024 is expected to grow at the same rate as in 2023, when it expanded by 3.6%. Ukraine chose freedom from that - if they continue the fight they will dissappear from the world map. RIP 1991-2025(6) Propaganda does not make it less true - No comments, dude, that's a delusion. Russia has already lost. Even if Ukraine were to surrender today Russia would be in an objectively much worse position than if it had never attacked Ukraine in the first place. NATO is expanded and rearming to face the threat of an expansionist Russia. European military spending is way up, the post USSR era of peace is over. Russia has proven that dictators can and will use nuclear blackmail to annex their neighbours and that only through force can the rules based order be maintained. Russian exports are hugely down and those that remain are raw materials, unrefined hydrocarbons and grain. That is an extremely shaky foundation for an economy, without internal manufacturing you’re basically a colony. The geopolitical leverage built on interdependence with Europe has been broken. You only get to pull that trigger once, after one winter of “freezing” (lol) they established alternative infrastructure. Now Germany can buy gas from anywhere with their LNG terminals while Russia must sell to Europe because that’s where the gas pipelines go. Russia is far more dependent on Europe than Europe is on Russia. Russia is the one selling its oil to India for store credit because it has no choice but to get fucked by India. The Russian war chest has been spent. A two decades of stealing the natural wealth of Russia from the Russian people, selling Russian oil and gas with state owned enterprises and not distributing the vast profits. Instead it was saved and then squandered for this. You could have had a modern diversified economy with high tech factories and jobs. You could have had the luxuries the west take for granted. You could have lived like Saudi oil princes. All that is gone now, spent on vanity. The demographic crisis has been worsened. A million of your best educated and highest earning men fled, never to return. Another 500,000 are dead or maimed. What does the future look like for Russia now? When the generation born in the 1980s retires (and dies early of alcoholism because of the laughable life expectancy in Russia) what then? The Soviet inheritance of military stockpiles is largely gone. Anything that can be easily reactivated has been, footage of “new” tanks being delivered to the front on trains show 1970s tanks without modernization. That inheritance belonged to all Russians and now it’s gone. Stolen from you. Russian arms exports are over. The Soviet arms industry was light years ahead of India/China/anyone but NATO and dominated the trade with countries that NATO wouldn’t sell to. But Russia has been canceling orders, stealing from existing orders (they diverted a delivery India had already paid for etc.), and not taking new orders. Their customers aren’t waiting, they’re buying from Israel, Turkey, South Korea, even India now. It doesn’t matter if they prefer Russian hardware, they can’t get it. And once they move to new suppliers they’ll stick with them because the tech will be compatible. Plus the world is seeing just how far Russian tech is behind 20 year old NATO stocks. They’re seeing that the most modern Russian air defence systems can’t stop a 1996 cruise missile. That ATACMS (which is now replaced by PrSM) can strike with impunity. That Russian IFVs don’t survive drones. With that comes a huge loss of soft power, the ability to arm a side in any given conflict gave Russia an awful lot of global leverage. No more. Russia has spent two years drawing meaningless red lines only to be humiliated daily. It has lost all credibility. It declares to the world that it would view a thing as an unforgivable attack on its very existence, then the thing happens, then Russia takes it like a bitch. Just cries about it and whines and does nothing. Day after day, week after week like a little bitch. Who will listen to Russia now? Who will respect Russia’s threats? CSTO is dead. Your wish dot com NATO imploded. The Black Sea navy is essentially defeated. The grain deal that gave Russia the right to inspect cargo and control traffic is gone and instead Ukrainian ships move freely with whatever they wish. Your flagship is sunk and the rest fled Crimea to more distant ports. The Ukrainians hate you. They hate you for Bucha. They hate you for the missile strikes on the Kherson Christmas markets. They hate you for the rapes of their daughters and grandmothers. They hate you because for the last two years there has been nightly news footage of grandparents weeping over the ruins of the apartment where three generations of their family were blown up. They hate you for their dead children. They hate you for the fear they feel daily wondering if their sons will die on the front. They hate you for the night after night of hearing air raid sirens and not knowing if they’ll make it to morning. They hate you for your double tapping missiles to kill firefighters and doctors. They hate you for leveling the building in Mariupol where the children were all sheltering. They hate you for your poison gas attacks, your destruction of dams, your executions of POWs, and a million other war crimes. They hate you for stealing their peace. What will that victory look like? If Ukraine surrenders in full today Russia has lost. And Ukraine isn’t surrendering. Now imagine what your life would be like if Russia had used the vast natural wealth of its land to help people. High speed rail connecting the regions. Engineers churned out of elite universities with globally competitive research budgets funded by export revenues. High pensions, sick leave, child benefits, healthcare. Newly built modern factories with high paying jobs in the industries of the future. Cutting edge tech and manufacturing in materials science, renewables, semiconductors, aeronautics etc. That is what was stolen from you by your oligarchs to fund their palaces, their corruption, their ambition. While their kids live in London and they drive a Mercedes because they certainly wouldn’t want to live the life they built for the rest of you. | ||
|
Sent.
Poland9299 Posts
Also Russians, literally in the same conversation: We're going to erase Ukraine from the world map if they don't surrender to us. Is Kremlin a secret lair of CIA agents? | ||
|
maybenexttime
Poland5811 Posts
On June 05 2024 22:38 EEk1TwEEk wrote: Wow))) They already won - how so? Russia has disappeared as an economical power - western european economies are fully dependant on our gas and oil. Russia's GDP in 2024 is expected to grow at the same rate as in 2023, when it expanded by 3.6%. Ukraine chose freedom from that - if they continue the fight they will dissappear from the world map. RIP 1991-2025(6) Propaganda does not make it less true - No comments, dude, that's a delusion. Fully dependent my ass. Talk about being delusional, lol. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/eu-gas-supply/ | ||
|
Yurie
12088 Posts
Russia winning in the next 10 years is likely. Russia winning in the next 3 years is unlikely, the win would be a negotiated one and not boots in Kiev forcing it. A negotiated peace due to Russia and Ukraine both just want out. Very likely. Most likely with borders close to the current ones in the war with some buffer zones. Russia tossing in the towel and reverting to smaller borders than the current ones in the next 3 years is likely. The war costs Russia a lot and doesn't seem to be gaining them much, basically just need Putin to die and Ukraine to be lucky with successor. Ukraine winning a military victory on any time scale. Unlikely. In any of the above Russia will not recover in the next 20 years from this war. The people will be worse off in 2044 than in 2020 on average. | ||
|
zeo
Serbia6342 Posts
On June 05 2024 22:23 EEk1TwEEk wrote: Huge amount of western propaganda/ I"ll ask only 1 question: does anyone believe in Ukraine's victory? Ukraine lost in 2014 when they lost their sovereignty to a foreigner funded violent coup of their democratically elected government. Everything after that is a direct consequence and doubling down on a losing hand by post coup governments each more corrupt than the last. It sucks being a proxy, but obsequious and sycophantic behavior is always met with contempt from 'friends' and whoever they tell you your enemy is alike. Of course they are going to use you as cannon fodder if all you do is look for the next boot to lick, and I'm not just talking about Ukraine. Thinking that anyone cheering for the war to continue cares even one iota for the common people in Ukraine is terribly misguided. Reading comments written by dogs under videos of Ukrainian men being beaten and press ganged into being sent to the front lines - one would think those barking hate Ukrainians more than anyone. And I think there is some truth to that, nobody really cares about a proxy, not really. Ask anyone for a NATO country how many South Vietnamese died compared to North Vietnamese, you'll get an 'idk something like 3 million altogether, who cares'. How many Afghans died as a part of coalition forces? They'll tell you the number after they Google it. Hell, they've already started 'W-well R-rrrussia won... but at what cost?!' cope posting but they just can't stop themselves from pushing people poorer than they are to die for their own hegemonic causes On June 05 2024 23:24 KwarK wrote: Russia has already lost. Even if Ukraine were to surrender today Russia would be in an objectively much worse position than if it had never attacked Ukraine in the first place. NATO is expanded and rearming to face the threat of an expansionist Russia. European military spending is way up, the post USSR era of peace is over. Russia has proven that dictators can and will use nuclear blackmail to annex their neighbours and that only through force can the rules based order be maintained. Russian exports are hugely down and those that remain are raw materials, unrefined hydrocarbons and grain. That is an extremely shaky foundation for an economy, without internal manufacturing you’re basically a colony. The geopolitical leverage built on interdependence with Europe has been broken. You only get to pull that trigger once, after one winter of “freezing” (lol) they established alternative infrastructure. Now Germany can buy gas from anywhere with their LNG terminals while Russia must sell to Europe because that’s where the gas pipelines go. Russia is far more dependent on Europe than Europe is on Russia. Russia is the one selling its oil to India for store credit because it has no choice but to get fucked by India. The Russian war chest has been spent. A two decades of stealing the natural wealth of Russia from the Russian people, selling Russian oil and gas with state owned enterprises and not distributing the vast profits. Instead it was saved and then squandered for this. You could have had a modern diversified economy with high tech factories and jobs. You could have had the luxuries the west take for granted. You could have lived like Saudi oil princes. All that is gone now, spent on vanity. The demographic crisis has been worsened. A million of your best educated and highest earning men fled, never to return. Another 500,000 are dead or maimed. What does the future look like for Russia now? When the generation born in the 1980s retires (and dies early of alcoholism because of the laughable life expectancy in Russia) what then? The Soviet inheritance of military stockpiles is largely gone. Anything that can be easily reactivated has been, footage of “new” tanks being delivered to the front on trains show 1970s tanks without modernization. That inheritance belonged to all Russians and now it’s gone. Stolen from you. Russian arms exports are over. The Soviet arms industry was light years ahead of India/China/anyone but NATO and dominated the trade with countries that NATO wouldn’t sell to. But Russia has been canceling orders, stealing from existing orders (they diverted a delivery India had already paid for etc.), and not taking new orders. Their customers aren’t waiting, they’re buying from Israel, Turkey, South Korea, even India now. It doesn’t matter if they prefer Russian hardware, they can’t get it. And once they move to new suppliers they’ll stick with them because the tech will be compatible. Plus the world is seeing just how far Russian tech is behind 20 year old NATO stocks. They’re seeing that the most modern Russian air defence systems can’t stop a 1996 cruise missile. That ATACMS (which is now replaced by PrSM) can strike with impunity. That Russian IFVs don’t survive drones. With that comes a huge loss of soft power, the ability to arm a side in any given conflict gave Russia an awful lot of global leverage. No more. Russia has spent two years drawing meaningless red lines only to be humiliated daily. It has lost all credibility. It declares to the world that it would view a thing as an unforgivable attack on its very existence, then the thing happens, then Russia takes it like a bitch. Just cries about it and whines and does nothing. Day after day, week after week like a little bitch. Who will listen to Russia now? Who will respect Russia’s threats? CSTO is dead. Your wish dot com NATO imploded. The Black Sea navy is essentially defeated. The grain deal that gave Russia the right to inspect cargo and control traffic is gone and instead Ukrainian ships move freely with whatever they wish. Your flagship is sunk and the rest fled Crimea to more distant ports. The Ukrainians hate you. They hate you for Bucha. They hate you for the missile strikes on the Kherson Christmas markets. They hate you for the rapes of their daughters and grandmothers. They hate you because for the last two years there has been nightly news footage of grandparents weeping over the ruins of the apartment where three generations of their family were blown up. They hate you for their dead children. They hate you for the fear they feel daily wondering if their sons will die on the front. They hate you for the night after night of hearing air raid sirens and not knowing if they’ll make it to morning. They hate you for your double tapping missiles to kill firefighters and doctors. They hate you for leveling the building in Mariupol where the children were all sheltering. They hate you for your poison gas attacks, your destruction of dams, your executions of POWs, and a million other war crimes. They hate you for stealing their peace. What will that victory look like? If Ukraine surrenders in full today Russia has lost. And Ukraine isn’t surrendering. Now imagine what your life would be like if Russia had used the vast natural wealth of its land to help people. High speed rail connecting the regions. Engineers churned out of elite universities with globally competitive research budgets funded by export revenues. High pensions, sick leave, child benefits, healthcare. Newly built modern factories with high paying jobs in the industries of the future. Cutting edge tech and manufacturing in materials science, renewables, semiconductors, aeronautics etc. That is what was stolen from you by your oligarchs to fund their palaces, their corruption, their ambition. While their kids live in London and they drive a Mercedes because they certainly wouldn’t want to live the life they built for the rest of you. And to think the richest 35 countries in the World can't even beat a Russia that sucks this much. Yikes! Better send another 450 billion  | ||
|
Falling
Canada11520 Posts
You are a very unserious person comparing the funding of peace time governments, which is a fraction of their capability, to a true war time economy. But that's the weakness of actual democracies verses autocracies like Russia. It takes a very long time (or for them to actually to be engaged in a serious war) for democracies to truly come online with their military production. And quite frankly, I expect them to all stay on peace time economies and fit in more and more military production without making any serious sacrifices. Whether that is enough remains to be seen. | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11841 Posts
On June 06 2024 02:33 zeo wrote: And to think the richest 35 countries in the World can't even beat a Russia that sucks this much. Yikes! Better send another 450 billion We talked about this already before. Russia isn't fighting the richest 35 countries of the world. Russia is fighting Ukraine, who gets a bit of surplus stuff gifted from those countries. The fact that you don't seem to ever be capable of remembering this and continue to make the exact same silly nonsense statements every time makes one believe that you either don't really have any longterm memory at all, or you are not discussing in good faith. | ||
|
sertas
Sweden890 Posts
On June 06 2024 05:24 Falling wrote: That's right. Ukrainians looked at those US funded programs to encourage contraception and nuclear non-proliferation and said, "Riot! Overthrow the State!" You are a very unserious person comparing the funding of peace time governments, which is a fraction of their capability, to a true war time economy. But that's the weakness of actual democracies verses autocracies like Russia. It's takes a very long time (or for them to actually to be engaged in as serious war) for democracies to truly come online with their military production. And quite frankly, I expect them to all stay on peace time economies and fit in more and more military production without making any serious sacrifices. Whether that is enough remains to be seen. It's not a weakness, if russia didn't have nukes this war would be over 2 years ago, but we can't cross the red line so we can only let ukraine do the war themselfs. And it's funny how you if you watch all the videos on youtube before the war predicting how russia could capture poland, baltics, finland , ukraine, before being stopped somewhere at poland and then nato winning a war from that point on, and here we are, russia can't even win a landwar against their neighbor, you would think building up their millitary for 70 years would allow them to do what they're supposedly best at, but here we are and now the frontline is barely moving since ukraine recaptured kherson | ||
|
Velr
Switzerland10886 Posts
He is still feeling insulted and diminished. So, what options does he have? dumb cunts need to do dumb cunt things. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
|
0x64
Finland4615 Posts
On June 06 2024 06:12 Velr wrote: You all allways gotta remember.. zeo is claiming to be serbian.. there was a great evil done to him by nato, because his beloved leader wasnt allowed to slaughter... He is still feeling insulted and diminished. So, what options does he have? dumb cunts need to do dumb cunt things. And he has been in all the good fights such as defending China in Tibet etc, He is consistent and I believe him to discuss in good faith and that the issue is inside his head :D. It's not like Tibet bomb Serbia... | ||
| ||
