EPTThings Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 251
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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On April 05 2024 02:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Which means fuck all without the threat of backing it up. https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1775943988496757073 I'm guessing this means his talk with Netanyahu today didn't go very well. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21525 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22991 Posts
On April 05 2024 02:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Which means fuck all without the threat of backing it up. https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1775943988496757073 Yeah since the readout doesn't even mention the bombs he just approved, it really is empty rhetoric meant to pacify his most gullible and devout supporters. The Biden administration approved the transfer of thousands more bombs to Israel on the same day Israeli airstrikes in Gaza killed seven aid workers for the charity group World Central Kitchen, three U.S. officials told The Washington Post this week after the incident elicited global condemnation. The transaction demonstrates the administration’s determination to continue its flow of lethal weaponry to Israel despite Monday’s high-profile killings and growing calls for the United States to condition such support on greater protection for civilians in the war zone. A U.S. citizen was among the dead. The move also casts new light on the emotional statement by President Biden that he was “outraged and heartbroken” by the tragedy and was insistent that such events never happen again. ... When asked why the Biden administration did not at least pause the process after the incident or until the Israelis’ investigation was completed, the spokesperson did not provide further comment. www.washingtonpost.com To be clear, those bombs are distinct from the other $18 billion the Biden administration is on track to approve and both of those distinct from the other ~$14 billion in military aid for Israel proposed by Biden. EDIT: I should also mention those are all distinct from the over 100 weapons "sales" to Israel the US has approved since Oct 7. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17918 Posts
Well, withhold those weapons until they behave themselves. They do that all the time to other buyers. | ||
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pmp10
3274 Posts
Clearly Israel can get away with much worse. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21525 Posts
On April 05 2024 05:46 JimmiC wrote: If Israel can't stop killing aid workers then Israel does not deserve the US's commitment to its self-defense.That is what they are saying is going to happen if changes are not made. It has been a day and the report is not out, I get we all want it yesterday but that is also not how it works. And there is this. And it is real and legitimate. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Byo
Canada203 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21525 Posts
On April 05 2024 06:28 JimmiC wrote: Halting weapon shipments is not 'collective punishment'. Israel isn't going to stop existing if the US doesn't send a few billion worth of bombs this month. wow we totally disagree, I'm completely against collective punishment. Strange that you don't feel the same way about the Palestinians when their leadership is openly pro genocide and murder of children and civilians. No one is going to invade because the US is sending a message by temporarily halting shipments, and in the off chance they do there is still carrier group off the coast. A US response is literally minutes away. But temporarily halting shipments does send a strong message to Netanyahu and the Israeli government that this won't be tolerated. And if the US/Biden wants to accomplish anything it needs to send a much stronger message then empty words while the bombs to destroy Gaza, kill civilians and bomb aid conveys keep on flowing. Your asking a family friend to stop shooting their neighbours while handing them a fresh box of shells every week, asking them to stop shooting while they load their gun with your shells and shoot another neighbour right in front of you. And yet you keep bringing them shells. Do you not see the utterly mixed and useless message your sending? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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ChristianS
United States3187 Posts
That’s a nice concept for a policy; the trouble is that we don’t follow it. I’ve seen an enormous number of credible reports of GVHRs on the part of a lot of different IDF units and AFAIK nothing has been done to ensure they don’t receive assistance. And not just because it’s a war zone; there’s plenty of reports from the West Bank, too, and frankly, I think Israel would frequently run afoul of an honest reading of this policy even before October 7th. (I’m pretty sure my sister would have refused to work the Israel desk at State Department for this reason). This is part of why Biden’s inaction here is so abysmal; not only does he have the power to restrict military assistance in response to human rights violations – arguably, it’s legally required. But it’s considered political suicide to go against an Israeli PM so the administration makes sure the rules don’t apply. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9486 Posts
On April 05 2024 11:43 ChristianS wrote: My sister used to work for the State Department, and one time she told me about something called Leahy vetting. I’m no expert but my limited understanding is that it’s against US law to send military aid to a foreign police or military unit if there’s credible evidence that they’re guilty of Gross Violations of Human Rights (GVHRs), defined as:
That’s a nice concept for a policy; the trouble is that we don’t follow it. I’ve seen an enormous number of credible reports of GVHRs on the part of a lot of different IDF units and AFAIK nothing has been done to ensure they don’t receive assistance. And not just because it’s a war zone; there’s plenty of reports from the West Bank, too, and frankly, I think Israel would frequently run afoul of an honest reading of this policy even before October 7th. (I’m pretty sure my sister would have refused to work the Israel desk at State Department for this reason). This is part of why Biden’s inaction here is so abysmal; not only does he have the power to restrict military assistance in response to human rights violations – arguably, it’s legally required. But it’s considered political suicide to go against an Israeli PM so the administration makes sure the rules don’t apply. Its all about that cash and maintaining military research funding. In the UK, our government's top lawyer was recorded saying (in private) that their legal advice was that Israel has committed breaches of international law and human rights offences. This legally obliges them to stop selling Israel weapons, but they're refusing to make their legal advice public, even though it already is in a sense, so they don't have to stop making the dollar. Politically, governments can want to do something, even look like they are in a position where they are forced to do something, but if it costs money it seems there's always a way out. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3729 Posts
On April 05 2024 11:50 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Imagine what cutting off funding would do. As well as sanctioning any country that decides to shelter Hamas officials and so on. https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1776074061367435694 That means the accusations were true the whole time. Israel's administration could've sent in more aid, but chose to block it. They knew what they were doing, and yet they were putting 100% of the blame on Hamas instead of accepting partial responsibility. Add that to the list of war crimes. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24412 Posts
On April 05 2024 07:11 Gorsameth wrote: Halting weapon shipments is not 'collective punishment'. Israel isn't going to stop existing if the US doesn't send a few billion worth of bombs this month. No one is going to invade because the US is sending a message by temporarily halting shipments, and in the off chance they do there is still carrier group off the coast. A US response is literally minutes away. But temporarily halting shipments does send a strong message to Netanyahu and the Israeli government that this won't be tolerated. And if the US/Biden wants to accomplish anything it needs to send a much stronger message then empty words while the bombs to destroy Gaza, kill civilians and bomb aid conveys keep on flowing. Your asking a family friend to stop shooting their neighbours while handing them a fresh box of shells every week, asking them to stop shooting while they load their gun with your shells and shoot another neighbour right in front of you. And yet you keep bringing them shells. Do you not see the utterly mixed and useless message your sending? Even if a report does find someone in the chain to blame, it strikes me as an individual will be scapegoated for a likely error, whereas general policy and doctrine that enables such things will remain untouched That’s if there’s any consequence at all. It is pretty clear that Israel does face threats from other regional forces, but has such an overwhelming advantage militarily in Gaza that it’s hardly in need of more. So if you can’t play some hardball now, with the general conduct of the war in Gaza, plus deaths of various international aid workers and journalists, when are you going to do it? I’d be perfectly fine with some compromise solution where the US provides defensive hardware and systems that don’t have utility in the Gazan conflict. Or something with very clear conditions attached. But a sale with ‘yeah just keep on keeping on’ is pretty gross. | ||
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