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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On February 02 2024 00:34 TentativePanda wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2024 23:50 Cricketer12 wrote:Lex had a Shapiro Destiny debate last week followed by an Omar Suleiman podcast this week. I think it's really interesting to see how Ben and Destiny discuss Israel/Palestine vs how Omar does. Lex - OmarLex - Shapiro/DestinyThose with a Pro-Israeli bent have a geopolitical frame of reference on the matter, whereas the Palestinian bent is more focused on the plight of the people themselves. I think as 3rd-Party observers it's easier for us to have an "objective utilitarian" view on these conflicts and in doing so, I find we do a disservice to the people on the ground. I'm quite embarrassed that Destiny spawned from the Starcraft scene. The guy is a true psychopath, and I'm not just saying that to throw an insult at him. But what's even more terrifying than his obvious and nefarious grift, is his following horde of degenerate gamers who seem so intellectually bankrupt that they can't even distinguish between a logical, sound argument, and crude fallacy.
I dunno if I’d go as far as psychopathic unless he’s very different from what I remember.
But he is very symptomatic of the worst of debate bro culture and how many consume their politics these days. It’s a battle of appearing to make good arguments so your fan base can say their guy ‘won’ rather than actually making good arguments, or alternatively explore understanding of a topic on some kind of mutual basis.
I guess it’s inevitable based on how the platforms that host such content incentivise, but entertainers rise to the top above things more considered.
Also not bashing you for posting Cricketer! Plenty of folks will get something out of it, just I personally got burned out from overdosing in my youth I think
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Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On February 02 2024 01:42 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2024 16:44 WombaT wrote:
You can be a heinous organisation and still be a resistance movement, the former doesn’t preclude the latter. That is true, it is also true that you can be another group of oppressors fighting for sole conrrol of the area. Im gojng to agree with the Gazans before Oct 7th and go with the latter. If you look at it from that framework than oct 7th makes sense. The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is because you believe the propaganda on social media that they are freedpm fighters and not reality. @MP sweet tantrum, keep embarassing yourself. Just becareful eventually your no content bitchy insult posts are going to get you banned even if you are part of the tribe attacking me.
How many times do you want the same question answered? Nobody has said October 7th was a good idea, be it morally or pragmatically since well, October 7th.
If people were actually saying such things then sure, have at it. As they are not I’m unsure what reiterating that Hamas is bad for the umpteenth time brings to the discussion.
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I saw something else indicating what Biden would need to see to allow for a Palestinian state, complete demilitirization among them.
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Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On February 02 2024 02:17 Cricketer12 wrote:I saw something else indicating what Biden would need to see to allow for a Palestinian state, complete demilitirization among them.
Which probably does put it in line with the chances of seeing a pig waving at you through a plane window.
Still, even if it’s very much a baby step, it does seem a few tentative ones have been made in the right direction by the US and others.
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On February 02 2024 02:17 Cricketer12 wrote:I saw something else indicating what Biden would need to see to allow for a Palestinian state, complete demilitirization among them. If the US fights to defend a Palestinian state from Israeli settlers then sure...
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Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On February 02 2024 02:51 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2024 01:56 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 01:42 JimmiC wrote:On February 01 2024 16:44 WombaT wrote:
You can be a heinous organisation and still be a resistance movement, the former doesn’t preclude the latter. That is true, it is also true that you can be another group of oppressors fighting for sole conrrol of the area. Im gojng to agree with the Gazans before Oct 7th and go with the latter. If you look at it from that framework than oct 7th makes sense. The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is because you believe the propaganda on social media that they are freedpm fighters and not reality. @MP sweet tantrum, keep embarassing yourself. Just becareful eventually your no content bitchy insult posts are going to get you banned even if you are part of the tribe attacking me. How many times do you want the same question answered? Nobody has said October 7th was a good idea, be it morally or pragmatically since well, October 7th. If people were actually saying such things then sure, have at it. As they are not I’m unsure what reiterating that Hamas is bad for the umpteenth time brings to the discussion. That you infantizing them again, why do you do that? It worked out exactly as they expected. It was a successful mission that they all cheered about. With your false assumptions it apparently makes it impossible for you to understand it but it is still true.
‘The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is…’
Which was the wording of your question. I don’t think it does, hence my response. Where am I infantilising anyone? :S
It was a successful operation, and they achieved what they wanted to with it. Whether it will be successful in pushing the needle on long-term goals is another question, I don’t think it will, as I said.
I might successfully go to the pub and have a few Guinness, very successful. But not a success in a wider sense if I was attempting dry January
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Al Jazeera deleted their original tweet. But have now put another confirming the previous one, still no deal. Israel has apparently agreed Hamas is the holdout still.
Qatari Foreign Ministry spokesman: Hamas received the ceasefire proposal in a positive atmosphere and we are awaiting their response.
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On February 02 2024 02:35 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2024 02:17 Cricketer12 wrote:I saw something else indicating what Biden would need to see to allow for a Palestinian state, complete demilitirization among them. If the US fights to defend a Palestinian state from Israeli settlers then sure...
Also worth noting the "sanctions" are targeting a tiny group (4 people) of violent settlers, not settlements. It only highlights the absurdity of US policy on Israel.
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Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On February 02 2024 03:38 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2024 03:15 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 02:51 JimmiC wrote:On February 02 2024 01:56 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 01:42 JimmiC wrote:On February 01 2024 16:44 WombaT wrote:
You can be a heinous organisation and still be a resistance movement, the former doesn’t preclude the latter. That is true, it is also true that you can be another group of oppressors fighting for sole conrrol of the area. Im gojng to agree with the Gazans before Oct 7th and go with the latter. If you look at it from that framework than oct 7th makes sense. The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is because you believe the propaganda on social media that they are freedpm fighters and not reality. @MP sweet tantrum, keep embarassing yourself. Just becareful eventually your no content bitchy insult posts are going to get you banned even if you are part of the tribe attacking me. How many times do you want the same question answered? Nobody has said October 7th was a good idea, be it morally or pragmatically since well, October 7th. If people were actually saying such things then sure, have at it. As they are not I’m unsure what reiterating that Hamas is bad for the umpteenth time brings to the discussion. That you infantizing them again, why do you do that? It worked out exactly as they expected. It was a successful mission that they all cheered about. With your false assumptions it apparently makes it impossible for you to understand it but it is still true. ‘The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is…’ Which was the wording of your question. I don’t think it does, hence my response. Where am I infantilising anyone? :S It was a successful operation, and they achieved what they wanted to with it. Whether it will be successful in pushing the needle on long-term goals is another question, I don’t think it will, as I said. I might successfully go to the pub and have a few Guinness, very successful. But not a success in a wider sense if I was attempting dry January Nice back track. What did they achieve and what did they want? What are their long term goals in your opinion. It is not a hard question.
Where is the backtrack Jimmy? This is baffling me
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On February 02 2024 03:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Al Jazeera deleted their original tweet. But have now put another confirming the previous one, still no deal. Israel has apparently agreed Hamas is the holdout still. Show nested quote +Qatari Foreign Ministry spokesman: Hamas received the ceasefire proposal in a positive atmosphere and we are awaiting their response. https://twitter.com/AJArabic/status/1753121397579096276
AJ has anonymous officials saying Israel's government signed off on the framework (a specific deal would come after)
Al Jazeera’s Mohammed Jamjoom, reporting from Tel Aviv, said anonymous Israeli officials confirmed that the government signed off to a deal that was presented to Hamas. This includes a pause in fighting and the release of Israeli captives in Gaza in exchange for thousands of Palestinian prisoners.
And the very public quote of Israel's PM indicating the opposite.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday said Israel would continue its war in Gaza until “absolute victory” over Hamas.
He ruled out releasing “thousands” of Palestinian prisoners as part of any deal to halt the fighting and said the army would not withdraw from Gaza.
“I would like to make it clear… We will not withdraw the IDF [army] from the Gaza Strip and we will not release thousands of terrorists. None of this will happen,”
www.aljazeera.com
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On February 02 2024 04:01 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2024 03:56 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 03:38 JimmiC wrote:On February 02 2024 03:15 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 02:51 JimmiC wrote:On February 02 2024 01:56 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 01:42 JimmiC wrote:On February 01 2024 16:44 WombaT wrote:
You can be a heinous organisation and still be a resistance movement, the former doesn’t preclude the latter. That is true, it is also true that you can be another group of oppressors fighting for sole conrrol of the area. Im gojng to agree with the Gazans before Oct 7th and go with the latter. If you look at it from that framework than oct 7th makes sense. The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is because you believe the propaganda on social media that they are freedpm fighters and not reality. @MP sweet tantrum, keep embarassing yourself. Just becareful eventually your no content bitchy insult posts are going to get you banned even if you are part of the tribe attacking me. How many times do you want the same question answered? Nobody has said October 7th was a good idea, be it morally or pragmatically since well, October 7th. If people were actually saying such things then sure, have at it. As they are not I’m unsure what reiterating that Hamas is bad for the umpteenth time brings to the discussion. That you infantizing them again, why do you do that? It worked out exactly as they expected. It was a successful mission that they all cheered about. With your false assumptions it apparently makes it impossible for you to understand it but it is still true. ‘The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is…’ Which was the wording of your question. I don’t think it does, hence my response. Where am I infantilising anyone? :S It was a successful operation, and they achieved what they wanted to with it. Whether it will be successful in pushing the needle on long-term goals is another question, I don’t think it will, as I said. I might successfully go to the pub and have a few Guinness, very successful. But not a success in a wider sense if I was attempting dry January Nice back track. What did they achieve and what did they want? What are their long term goals in your opinion. It is not a hard question. Where is the backtrack Jimmy? This is baffling me Where isn't it? How about trying to move forward and answer. Put your flag down.
Can this stop? You can have sane conversations with people without being a piece of shit. Most people would prefer you do that.
Every second post you're whining about someone strawmanning you or piling on, when people are just annoyed because the way you're choosing to communicate is fucking garbage. One of those people, best I can tell, is someone who hasn't even interacted with you before and communicated their position calmly. You recently got banned for picking mindless fights with everyone, and I understand the taint in here of you basically learning a lesson from BlackJack and crying victim every other post, I just don't understand how any of those interactions inspired you to become another BlackJack.
The irony of you some posts ago asking anyone else to be better is deeply amusing. Be better.
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On February 02 2024 06:56 JimmiC wrote:
People as me questions, I answer them. People me ask to to source, I source them. But the reverse is never true. Look if you want to contribute to the discussion by all means go for it. But the constant pile on of me is getting boring. If Wombat does want to discuss with me than I'm going to hold him to the standard I get held to (and is the forum rules). I was nice to him for literally years, to point of personal well wishes in PM's then every couple days I have to deal with his tantrums and insults in here so he can look cool or whatever. Fuck that. He can be a grown up or fuck off and that goes for cry baby MP as well.
The me telling people to post better is supposed to be irony BTW, bunch of people complaining about my posts while posting WAY worse. The entitlement of "you have to do it this way but I'll shit all over the place" is awfully frustrating. But the lack of self awareness is the real kicker.
On February 02 2024 01:56 WombaT wrote:
How many times do you want the same question answered?
Your response:
On February 02 2024 02:51 JimmiC wrote:
That you infantizing them again, why do you do that?
On February 02 2024 03:56 WombaT wrote:
Where is the backtrack Jimmy? This is baffling me
On February 02 2024 04:01 JimmiC wrote:
Where isn't it? How about trying to move forward and answer. Put your flag down.
There's two bits you didn't answer on just this page. I could find more! You're not answering questions. You haven't been.
Here's my answer to the question you've been asking for a few pages and have had answered several times:
Hamas is a terrorist org, they accomplished terrorism and their long term goals are likely the eradication of israel among other things such as terrorism. What now?
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Northern Ireland27269 Posts
On February 02 2024 06:56 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2024 06:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On February 02 2024 04:01 JimmiC wrote:On February 02 2024 03:56 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 03:38 JimmiC wrote:On February 02 2024 03:15 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 02:51 JimmiC wrote:On February 02 2024 01:56 WombaT wrote:On February 02 2024 01:42 JimmiC wrote:On February 01 2024 16:44 WombaT wrote:
You can be a heinous organisation and still be a resistance movement, the former doesn’t preclude the latter. That is true, it is also true that you can be another group of oppressors fighting for sole conrrol of the area. Im gojng to agree with the Gazans before Oct 7th and go with the latter. If you look at it from that framework than oct 7th makes sense. The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is because you believe the propaganda on social media that they are freedpm fighters and not reality. @MP sweet tantrum, keep embarassing yourself. Just becareful eventually your no content bitchy insult posts are going to get you banned even if you are part of the tribe attacking me. How many times do you want the same question answered? Nobody has said October 7th was a good idea, be it morally or pragmatically since well, October 7th. If people were actually saying such things then sure, have at it. As they are not I’m unsure what reiterating that Hamas is bad for the umpteenth time brings to the discussion. That you infantizing them again, why do you do that? It worked out exactly as they expected. It was a successful mission that they all cheered about. With your false assumptions it apparently makes it impossible for you to understand it but it is still true. ‘The reason you all dodge the simple question of how Oct 7th furthers Hamas goals is…’ Which was the wording of your question. I don’t think it does, hence my response. Where am I infantilising anyone? :S It was a successful operation, and they achieved what they wanted to with it. Whether it will be successful in pushing the needle on long-term goals is another question, I don’t think it will, as I said. I might successfully go to the pub and have a few Guinness, very successful. But not a success in a wider sense if I was attempting dry January Nice back track. What did they achieve and what did they want? What are their long term goals in your opinion. It is not a hard question. Where is the backtrack Jimmy? This is baffling me Where isn't it? How about trying to move forward and answer. Put your flag down. Can this stop? You can have sane conversations with people without being a piece of shit. Most people would prefer you do that. Every second post you're whining about someone strawmanning you or piling on, when people are just annoyed because the way you're choosing to communicate is fucking garbage. One of those people, best I can tell, is someone who hasn't even interacted with you before and communicated their position calmly. You recently got banned for picking mindless fights with everyone, and I understand the taint in here of you basically learning a lesson from BlackJack and crying victim every other post, I just don't understand how any of those interactions inspired you to become another BlackJack. The irony of you some posts ago asking anyone else to be better is deeply amusing. Be better. People as me questions, I answer them. People me ask to to source, I source them. But the reverse is never true. Look if you want to contribute to the discussion by all means go for it. But the constant pile on of me is getting boring. If Wombat does want to discuss with me than I'm going to hold him to the standard I get held to (and is the forum rules). I was nice to him for literally years, to point of personal well wishes in PM's then every couple days I have to deal with his tantrums and insults in here so he can look cool or whatever. Fuck that. He can be a grown up or fuck off and that goes for cry baby MP as well. The me telling people to post better is supposed to be irony BTW, bunch of people complaining about my posts while posting WAY worse. The entitlement of "you have to do it this way but I'll shit all over the place" is awfully frustrating. But the lack of self awareness is the real kicker. The talking about the straw manning is because that is exactly what happens on a daily basis. No matter how many times I explain it, or how many times I ask people to find where I said what they say I've said. Then some other guy who has not participated or read the conversation jumps in to also argue on behalf of the strawman, and that is when I mention the piling on. If people want it not to be a bunch of shit posts, stop making shit posts. And this clearly goes for you as well. Congrats maybe you will win a prize for like the 100th no content, off topic shit post about me! (Not a real number, exaggerated for effect).
Literally all I’ve said is stop posting in an irritating manner, when you don’t you are a valuable contributor. I’ve seen you do better, you’re eminently capable of it, if I didn’t think you were I wouldn’t bother raising it.
If people were unfairly describing you as a Zionist stooge or something you wouldn’t like it would you? But you’ll continually tar people as Hamas sympathisers even if their previous posts have roundly condemned them.
I answered a specific question, only for you to respond with another, different question that I’m somehow be supposed to answer before it was proffered. That I’ve apparently backtracked on despite never having said anything about it to begin with.
It’s not an ideological issue either, I’ve had nothing but civil interactions with Cerebrate, who I think it’s fair to say is quite pro-Israel (while not being dismissive of the Palestinian side of the equation), and I value our exchanges.
I’m posting this in thread rather than via PM so if folks consider my interpretation as unfair they’re free to push back.
Otherwise I’m not fussed on engaging unless you stop doing the things that multiple posters have constructively outlined, you do you man. If nothing else you’re proof that unconscious bias training really isn’t effective at actually eliminating it from the subject.
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EPT
