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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On January 30 2024 00:02 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 21:44 JimmiC wrote:On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. The spin is unreal. They were accused months ago and completely denied it all saying it was Israeli propaganda, which you either did or would have instantly believed. They reacted when their supporters were presented with evidence. They fired them after the US and Canada maybe others of the many nations paused funding. Some of you really need to paint Hamas as victims and spin everything to Israel’s fault. Why is that? I don't know why that is. Might be because I'm a Hamas supporter, a Nazi supporter, a genocide supporter, a Satan worshipper, and a baby eater. The only thing I do know is that I'll never respond to you. You can try to stir a reaction by provoking me all you want, my policy is for life.
You do realise that this is a response to JimmiC, right?
This whole "please tell JimmiC I'm ignoring him" thing is something most people grow out of by the age of 10.
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On January 29 2024 22:52 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 06:27 Nebuchad wrote:On January 29 2024 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2024 02:00 Nebuchad wrote:On January 29 2024 01:42 JimmiC wrote:On January 29 2024 01:38 Nebuchad wrote:
I don't think there's much need for further discussions in this thread, is there? Then don't discuss it. I don't think I will. I wanted to encourage other people to not do it either. We've seen from the thread that there isn't a good faith debate about the facts, they're quite clear. So now I don't see a ton of value in talking about the importance of reality in politics over and over. A country is plausibly doing genocide and you probably live in a country that funds it and is complicit. It's time to actually be political. Seven countries are even willing to cut support for the group that is plausibly genocided because the group that is plausibly genociding them said that 0.0000001% of the support group might be evil. That is revolting. Call people about it, be annoying, take part in civil unrest. Do things that you would like to remember yourself having done. On one hand people have been supporting Palestinians in unprecedented numbers, on the other, people are attempting to rationalize an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign and voting for a guy aiding and abetting it. It's both uplifting and quite disappointing. I get the impression Israel/Netanyahu is like Trump in that they are taking the mask off of US foreign policy (supporting an ethnic cleansing campaign)/Israeli anti-Palestinian policy (engaging in an ethnic cleansing campaign) and trading the dog whistles for bullhorns. A lot of the opposition from politicians is on style rather than substance and Israel is essentially doing what is expected of them (with the aforementioned issues on style) as a proxy to expand US hegemony in the Middle East. I certainly wouldn't vote for Biden after this, but it doesn't really matter to me whether people do or not, it's not like this election matters. It's basically a non-event and any time spent talking about it is wasted as far as I'm concerned, I'd much rather focus on something political. It's irrelevant even discussing it, as Trump is more pro-Zionist than even the Biden administration.From the articles i have seen Bidens pro-war, pro-escalation stance (The massive amounts in military funding for Ukraine & Israel plus the buildup of US forces in MidEast) is having a negative effect with the Gen Z vote, but they will probably just sit it out rather than vote Trump. Countries reducing funding to the UN is one of the very few good things to come out of this war so far.
Just wanted to verbalize that we all noticed that you added Ukraine in there even though Biden's popularity decline was very obviously correlated with his Israel support and not his Ukraine support.
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On January 30 2024 00:28 Mikau313 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 00:02 Magic Powers wrote:On January 29 2024 21:44 JimmiC wrote:On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. The spin is unreal. They were accused months ago and completely denied it all saying it was Israeli propaganda, which you either did or would have instantly believed. They reacted when their supporters were presented with evidence. They fired them after the US and Canada maybe others of the many nations paused funding. Some of you really need to paint Hamas as victims and spin everything to Israel’s fault. Why is that? I don't know why that is. Might be because I'm a Hamas supporter, a Nazi supporter, a genocide supporter, a Satan worshipper, and a baby eater. The only thing I do know is that I'll never respond to you. You can try to stir a reaction by provoking me all you want, my policy is for life. You do realise that this is a response to JimmiC, right? This whole "please tell JimmiC I'm ignoring him" thing is something most people grow out of by the age of 10.
I didn't acknowledge anything JimmiC said if you read my comment. I'm letting him know how petty he is.
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On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel.
Important to note it's essentially the only functional humanitarian organization left in Gaza, so it's basically the US reinvigorating Israel's pursuit to collectively punish Palestinians.
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On January 30 2024 04:45 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. Important to note it's essentially the only functional humanitarian organization left in Gaza, so it's basically the US reinvigorating Israel's pursuit to collectively punish Palestinians.
And the consequence of that collective punishment will be more adversity, more hatred and more conflict. It's counterproductive to withhold funding since those considered to be guilty have already been removed and the investigation is ongoing. That should've been the only thing required to demonstrate goodwill, but apparently it wasn't enough.
The UNRWA is being held to an unrealistically high standard. They're predominantly Palestinians, so a tiny overlap with extremists is practically unavoidable. If funding to the entire org gets withdrawn every single time individual members take part in terrorist activity, that would lead to a collapse of vast amounts of humanitarian efforts towards Palestinians.
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What‘s the solution ? One side looks for an excuse to do what they‘re doing and the other is backes into a corner.
Maybe with a special resolution one could take the Gaza strip and move it to Florida. There‘s probably a bunch of dudes there waiting for a reason to use their guns.
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Northern Ireland26760 Posts
On January 30 2024 05:19 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 04:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. Important to note it's essentially the only functional humanitarian organization left in Gaza, so it's basically the US reinvigorating Israel's pursuit to collectively punish Palestinians. And the consequence of that collective punishment will be more adversity, more hatred and more conflict. It's counterproductive to withhold funding since those considered to be guilty have already been removed and the investigation is ongoing. That should've been the only thing required to demonstrate goodwill, but apparently it wasn't enough. The UNRWA is being held to an unrealistically high standard. They're predominantly Palestinians, so a tiny overlap with extremists is practically unavoidable. If funding to the entire org gets withdrawn every single time individual members take part in terrorist activity, that would lead to a collapse of vast amounts of humanitarian efforts towards Palestinians.
It seems especially harsh when juxtaposed with how much collateral damage is tolerated from Israel’s attempts to defang Hamas amongst said same population.
You can bomb civilians on the off chance you nail an extremist, but you can’t give aid to civilians on the off chance some of it goes to an extremist, or there are extremists in the aid org.
Seems perverse to me. Although I’m not innately opposed to an investigation as to how widespread or influential such voices are in that body.
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Northern Ireland26760 Posts
On January 30 2024 05:38 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 04:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. Important to note it's essentially the only functional humanitarian organization left in Gaza, so it's basically the US reinvigorating Israel's pursuit to collectively punish Palestinians. So what was that the US was giving by far the most money to the org to begin with? How did that work to their Global hegemon? And while it is impressive that the US made up 35% of the billion dollar funding, now 70% have paused. With the EU 10% saying they won't make their next payment without a full audit, either they are going to need to need to comply and prove that it was just a few bad apples or someone else is going to need to step up.
You can vote for parties and policies that are actively harmful to the poorest in our society while still giving the odd homeless person some pocket change.
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On January 30 2024 10:48 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 10:09 WombaT wrote:On January 30 2024 05:38 JimmiC wrote:On January 30 2024 04:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. Important to note it's essentially the only functional humanitarian organization left in Gaza, so it's basically the US reinvigorating Israel's pursuit to collectively punish Palestinians. So what was that the US was giving by far the most money to the org to begin with? How did that work to their Global hegemon? And while it is impressive that the US made up 35% of the billion dollar funding, now 70% have paused. With the EU 10% saying they won't make their next payment without a full audit, either they are going to need to need to comply and prove that it was just a few bad apples or someone else is going to need to step up. You can vote for parties and policies that are actively harmful to the poorest in our society while still giving the odd homeless person some pocket change. I get that is is really cool to shit on the US, but the US is the country giving by far the most. Kind of seems odd to say that it is a big deal that they are pulling their funding, but not a big deal that they give it. Unless of course you just always hate on the US regardless of what they do.
They're also the country that is doing the most to enable Israel and shield it from accountability. Until they actively reverse course and try fix some of the damage that's done (lmao - they never will), I'd say it's pretty fair to be very critical of the US in this.
On January 30 2024 10:02 WombaT wrote:
It seems especially harsh when juxtaposed with how much collateral damage is tolerated from Israel’s attempts to defang Hamas amongst said same population.
You can bomb civilians on the off chance you nail an extremist, but you can’t give aid to civilians on the off chance some of it goes to an extremist, or there are extremists in the aid org.
Seems perverse to me. Although I’m not innately opposed to an investigation as to how widespread or influential such voices are in that body.
Well put.
To me, that kind of hypocritical approach is just another demonstration of the different value many western nations put on the lives of Israelis and Palestinians.
(Of course this is not just racism and such things, it's also somewhat informed and reinforced by the fact that avoiding supporting Israel may lead people to some inconvenience.)
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On January 30 2024 16:36 Ciaus237 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 10:48 JimmiC wrote:On January 30 2024 10:09 WombaT wrote:On January 30 2024 05:38 JimmiC wrote:On January 30 2024 04:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. Important to note it's essentially the only functional humanitarian organization left in Gaza, so it's basically the US reinvigorating Israel's pursuit to collectively punish Palestinians. So what was that the US was giving by far the most money to the org to begin with? How did that work to their Global hegemon? And while it is impressive that the US made up 35% of the billion dollar funding, now 70% have paused. With the EU 10% saying they won't make their next payment without a full audit, either they are going to need to need to comply and prove that it was just a few bad apples or someone else is going to need to step up. You can vote for parties and policies that are actively harmful to the poorest in our society while still giving the odd homeless person some pocket change. I get that is is really cool to shit on the US, but the US is the country giving by far the most. Kind of seems odd to say that it is a big deal that they are pulling their funding, but not a big deal that they give it. Unless of course you just always hate on the US regardless of what they do. They're also the country that is doing the most to enable Israel and shield it from accountability. Until they actively reverse course and try fix some of the damage that's done (lmao - they never will), I'd say it's pretty fair to be very critical of the US in this. Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 10:02 WombaT wrote:
It seems especially harsh when juxtaposed with how much collateral damage is tolerated from Israel’s attempts to defang Hamas amongst said same population.
You can bomb civilians on the off chance you nail an extremist, but you can’t give aid to civilians on the off chance some of it goes to an extremist, or there are extremists in the aid org.
Seems perverse to me. Although I’m not innately opposed to an investigation as to how widespread or influential such voices are in that body. Well put. To me, that kind of hypocritical approach is just another demonstration of the different value many western nations put on the lives of Israelis and Palestinians. (Of course this is not just racism and such things, it's also somewhat informed and reinforced by the fact that avoiding supporting Israel may lead people to some inconvenience.)
It's also a typical example of the status quo prevailing just due to it being the status quo. It's a lot easier to get away with a racial/national bias when it's the established order than when it isn't. The bias that leads to a downgrading of Palestinians as opposed to Israelis or Jews is well established throughout the generations, even in more center/left-wing circles. Older generations were taught to support Israel and Jews since WW2 while little to no effort was made to ingrain similar support for Palestinians.
It's unsurprising that it's only the youngest people today who show strong support for Palestinians as they weren't born during a pro-Israel era. They were born when it was well-known how oppressed Palestinians have been for many generations. Social media is accelerating this new trend.
Older generations that are used to having a strong pro-Israel bias view this trend as antisemitism because they were never taught not to have a racial/national bias against Palestinians. For them, being pro-Palestinians equates to being anti-Jews. I can give plenty of examples where people don't recognize the difference between Palestinians and Hamas, including even in this very thread. Many people equate the antisemitism by Hamas to the exact same hatred Palestinians at large have towards Israel. I can prove this (I'll provide evidence if people want to see it. It just takes time collecting it, so I'll rather wait for a request).
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Northern Ireland26760 Posts
On January 30 2024 10:48 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 10:09 WombaT wrote:On January 30 2024 05:38 JimmiC wrote:On January 30 2024 04:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. Important to note it's essentially the only functional humanitarian organization left in Gaza, so it's basically the US reinvigorating Israel's pursuit to collectively punish Palestinians. So what was that the US was giving by far the most money to the org to begin with? How did that work to their Global hegemon? And while it is impressive that the US made up 35% of the billion dollar funding, now 70% have paused. With the EU 10% saying they won't make their next payment without a full audit, either they are going to need to need to comply and prove that it was just a few bad apples or someone else is going to need to step up. You can vote for parties and policies that are actively harmful to the poorest in our society while still giving the odd homeless person some pocket change. I get that is is really cool to shit on the US, but the US is the country giving by far the most. Kind of seems odd to say that it is a big deal that they are pulling their funding, but not a big deal that they give it. Unless of course you just always hate on the US regardless of what they do.
It seems odd to praise the US for an aid contribution that is subsequently pulled, when said aid is for a scenario where they both economically and politically have given far more historic support for the other side in this fractious conflict.
Oh wait I have no rationale for my opinion sorry my bad, I’m just shitting on the US because it’s the thing the cool kids do these days…
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On January 30 2024 10:02 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2024 05:19 Magic Powers wrote:On January 30 2024 04:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2024 21:27 Magic Powers wrote:
30 000 people are employed at the UNRWA, mostly Palestinians. Before an investigation has even taken place they've fired 12 of them over the accusations of participating in the October 7 attack. An investigation is currently underway.
As a consequence, funding to the entire organization has been halted.
I can't say I'm surprised. While Israel rejects every investigation into IDF conduct and yet continues to receive international aid, the UNRWA immediately conducts an investigation and fires its employees yet has international aid withdrawn. This is despite the UNRWA being a humanitarian organization that saves peoples lives while the IDF causes tens of thousands of deaths.
Amazing priorities of the countries supporting Israel. Important to note it's essentially the only functional humanitarian organization left in Gaza, so it's basically the US reinvigorating Israel's pursuit to collectively punish Palestinians. And the consequence of that collective punishment will be more adversity, more hatred and more conflict. It's counterproductive to withhold funding since those considered to be guilty have already been removed and the investigation is ongoing. That should've been the only thing required to demonstrate goodwill, but apparently it wasn't enough. The UNRWA is being held to an unrealistically high standard. They're predominantly Palestinians, so a tiny overlap with extremists is practically unavoidable. If funding to the entire org gets withdrawn every single time individual members take part in terrorist activity, that would lead to a collapse of vast amounts of humanitarian efforts towards Palestinians. You can bomb civilians on the off chance you nail an extremist, but you can’t give aid to civilians on the off chance some of it goes to an extremist, or there are extremists in the aid org.
You know the guy with the guns can just take ALL of the aid, and give nothing to the general population right? And then give it to his other armed friends. While everyone else has to starve?
And then,as bonus they can just point the finger at the bad guys, and say its their fault that everyones starving right now. Works wonders for recruitment too. Take this weapon, kill some baddies, we'll give your family some food. Keep killing, we keep giving food.
Humanitarian aid for the general population is awesome and should 100% be encouraged.
Aid through the hands of an oppressor, becomes a conflict driving tool.
I don't know who actually has their hands on the aid first in palestine. Neither does anyone else here. I trust that the the people who brought you PRISM know tho. I hope they act accotdingly when deciding if aid is to be handed out.
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Btw could someone send me something about what happens in 30 days? Does the ICJ publish some kind of document to say that Israel hasn't followed the orders of the provisional measures?
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Hamas says they are studying the case for another cease fire. Whatever that means.
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EPT
