|
On November 05 2020 21:37 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:34 m4ini wrote:On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? So democratic/liberal people hate "the left" more than they hate "far right QAnon shit"? Dude QAnon stuff is fringe of the fringe and only gets media attention to attempt to disgrace the 60M+ who voted GOP or w/e. Are you comparing the progressive shift of the Dems to QAnon in equivalent impact on their party? Can you call Qanon stuff fringe when the public face of the party is spreading it?
I find it hard to square that large parts of the GOP voters do not agree with Trump's blatent racism, conspiracy theories, corruption, attacks on the media / political opponents / democracy in general and a whole host of other disturbing things and yet still vote for him.
At what point do Republican voters take the slightest bit of responsibility for the people they elect and how their votes reflect on themselves?
|
On November 05 2020 21:41 Zambrah wrote:
I mean, we have people in Congress who are literal Qanon people, so its not THAT fringe
By people you mean person and 1 person is fringe AF. Literally nothing you said negated my point. Fringe people win political office all the time.
|
On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump?
I think more plausible is that Democrats are not left enough and thus don't campaign on improving lives of blue collar workers and those left behind as a result of global trade. Trump promised to help these people and got their votes because he at least promised change.
|
One elected official who got elected with prominent focus on their conspiratorial beliefs leads me to believe its may not, in fact, be so fringe as to be dismissed.
|
On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump?
Remind us again what you consider the far left policies the Democratic Party is actively trying to pursue.
|
On November 05 2020 21:45 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:41 Zambrah wrote:
I mean, we have people in Congress who are literal Qanon people, so its not THAT fringe By people you mean person and 1 person is fringe AF. Literally nothing you said negated my point. Fringe people win political office all the time.
Yeah, Trump won political office too. He's still pretty fringe right?
|
On November 05 2020 21:46 Oukka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? I think more plausible is that Democrats are not left enough and thus don't campaign on improving lives of blue collar workers and those left behind as a result of global trade. Trump promised to help these people and got their votes because he at least promised change.
Yes, though I'd go farther, the issue isn't about left or right, it's about giving voters reason to think that a candidate will improve their lives. Dems used to be really good at this, but stopped sometime between Carter and the Clinton Era. They must pick that tack back up, and folks like Bernie and Senator Sherrod Brown are good contemporary examples of how to do so.
|
On November 05 2020 21:47 Zambrah wrote:
One elected official who got elected with prominent focus on their conspiratorial beliefs leads me to believe its may not, in fact, be so fringe as to be dismissed.
Especially considering that QAnon is only what, 2.5 years old lol.
|
On November 05 2020 21:47 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? Remind us again what you consider the far left policies the Democratic Party is actively trying to pursue.
To be fair, Biden campaigning to flip a Dem seat Republican during the midterms was PREEEEETTY far left
|
On November 05 2020 21:46 Oukka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? I think more plausible is that Democrats are not left enough and thus don't campaign on improving lives of blue collar workers and those left behind as a result of global trade. Trump promised to help these people and got their votes because he at least promised change.
It seems to me the D's have abandoned their "blue collar" face for cosmopolitan identity politics primarily. Blue collar folks in the burbs tend to be white folks and the D's are very dismissive of this population. It's why Trump won them and I think with the right messaging the GOP will continue to do well with them. This shift is all ready occurring as college-educated folks are trending D while the GOP is losing their majority support from this group. It's why you see Biden win the 200k+ demographic.
|
On November 05 2020 21:51 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:46 Oukka wrote:On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? I think more plausible is that Democrats are not left enough and thus don't campaign on improving lives of blue collar workers and those left behind as a result of global trade. Trump promised to help these people and got their votes because he at least promised change. It seems to me the D's have abandoned their "blue collar" face for cosmopolitan identity politics primarily. Blue collar folks in the burbs tend to be white folks and the D's are very dismissive of this population. It's why Trump won them and I think with the right messaging the GOP will continue to do well with them. This shift is all ready occurring as college-educated folks are trending D while the GOP is losing their majority support from this group. It's why you see Biden win the 200k+ demographic.
This is the reason. Not a "the left" shift.
I mean, we're talking Biden. He doesn't strike me particularly far left - and considering "far left" people are seething at the pure thought of Biden, i'd argue it's a pretty reasonable assumption.
|
On November 05 2020 21:47 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? Remind us again what you consider the far left policies the Democratic Party is actively trying to pursue.
A not insignificant # of folks campaigned on medicare for all and outlawing private insurance (Harris being one). It was what...Biden and Buttigieg the only ones who didn't. If you see D trends they're moving to Sanders positions on a lot of things and even Germany aren't stupid enough to outlaw their private insurance market.
|
On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump?
I think there is certainly a significant number of complicit Trump voters who cast their vote against the Democratic nominee, rather than for the Republican nominee, in the same way that many Democratic voters were anti-Trump rather than pro-Biden. It's the nature of the two-party system.
I don't think the Democratic party has shifted enough to the left though, tbh.
|
On November 05 2020 21:51 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:46 Oukka wrote:On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? I think more plausible is that Democrats are not left enough and thus don't campaign on improving lives of blue collar workers and those left behind as a result of global trade. Trump promised to help these people and got their votes because he at least promised change. It seems to me the D's have abandoned their "blue collar" face for cosmopolitan identity politics primarily. Blue collar folks in the burbs tend to be white folks and the D's are very dismissive of this population. It's why Trump won them and I think with the right messaging the GOP will continue to do well with them. This shift is all ready occurring as college-educated folks are trending D while the GOP is losing their majority support from this group. It's why you see Biden win the 200k+ demographic.
I don't think those are necessarily an 'either or' situation, though. And if you consider advocating gender and racial equality as identity politics then yeah that does seem to have a lot of media attention. But there is no reason why Democrats couldn't include reasonable job security/unemployment/retraining programs in their platform while keeping the 'identity politics' there too.
|
On November 05 2020 21:53 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:47 Artisreal wrote:On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? Remind us again what you consider the far left policies the Democratic Party is actively trying to pursue. outlawing private insurance (Harris being one).
That's a blatant lie, lol.
|
12 hours since Trumps last tweet,whats taking so long he must be up by now.
|
On November 05 2020 21:57 Oukka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:51 Wegandi wrote:On November 05 2020 21:46 Oukka wrote:On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? I think more plausible is that Democrats are not left enough and thus don't campaign on improving lives of blue collar workers and those left behind as a result of global trade. Trump promised to help these people and got their votes because he at least promised change. It seems to me the D's have abandoned their "blue collar" face for cosmopolitan identity politics primarily. Blue collar folks in the burbs tend to be white folks and the D's are very dismissive of this population. It's why Trump won them and I think with the right messaging the GOP will continue to do well with them. This shift is all ready occurring as college-educated folks are trending D while the GOP is losing their majority support from this group. It's why you see Biden win the 200k+ demographic. I don't think those are necessarily an 'either or' situation, though. And if you consider advocating gender and racial equality as identity politics then yeah that does seem to have a lot of media attention. But there is no reason why Democrats couldn't include reasonable job security/unemployment/retraining programs in their platform while keeping the 'identity politics' there too.
Blue collar folks are not your critical theory toting folks. They're trade folks, not college-educated and they're not cosmopolitan. You see Lady Gaga mock these folks. They're also traditionally law and order folks too and that's not a popular position with the D's. The D's also have abandoned all messaging with this demo (Biden is basically the last vestige in the national Party). If you think all blue collar is is unemployment and re-training I can tell you've lost them all ready. Blue collar folks are miners, plumbers, construction workers, etc.
|
Imagine living in a world where the free public healthcare is far left.
|
On November 05 2020 22:03 Neneu wrote:
Imagine living in a world where the free public healthcare is far left.
I dont have to imagine, Im living in it, its awful
|
On November 05 2020 21:53 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2020 21:47 Artisreal wrote:On November 05 2020 21:31 Dante08 wrote:
I don't really see this mentioned here but do you guys feel not all Trump voters necessarily support Trump but hate that the democrat party has swayed so left and hate the left so much that they just voted for Trump? Remind us again what you consider the far left policies the Democratic Party is actively trying to pursue. A not insignificant # of folks campaigned on medicare for all and outlawing private insurance (Harris being one). It was what...Biden and Buttigieg the only ones who didn't. If you see D trends they're moving to Sanders positions on a lot of things and even Germany aren't stupid enough to outlaw their private insurance market.
We have both private and public health insurance companies.
But we do have health care for all. And that isn t dumb, that just insures, that you don t fucking die, because you re poor.
Healthcare for all isn t left, it s normal in pretty much all other developed western countries
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
