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Well this was indeed quiet disapointing but it is what it is.
Trump is a weaker then in 2016 vs hillary as someone else already said,both kinda did look like the old man that they both are but biden did quiet a bit better then i did expect. Overall this debate probably didnt change much for most of the voters.
The mike,s i think should not be muted but maybe the debate leader should have the option to mute a mike.
There should be an option for interuption,that imo is kinda essantial in debates.
Harris vs pence should be a lot better and i do expect harris to "win" with a huge margin.
In the end most people watch the debate from their own perspective. Republican voters will think their candidate did fine and the democrats will think the same about their candidate. Harris should do far better then pence when it comes to apealing to the still undecided voters though,if only because she is younger. 3 old man and a relatively young women,she will look good and apeal to the people in the centre who are still undecided.
Undecided i think are still quiet a few people even though i have read analyzis which claim undecided is only a very small group.
Biden i think will win the election and i doubt i will have to change that opinion again.
From here on the epidemic will get worse towards the election,a vaccine might be announced but that will be far to late to really make an impact. Trump winning would be far worse for the polarization in the country then biden winning and i dont see how anyone would benefit from that,the republicans got their judges so it wouldnt be the end of the world for them i guess.
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On September 30 2020 17:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2020 12:14 Starlightsun wrote:On September 30 2020 12:10 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2020 12:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
CNN accurately referred to this debate as a shitshow. Does anyone disagree that the debate being a shitshow is anything other than a huge win for Biden? I do. Biden made a very disappointing showing. Nobody expected Biden to do well.He came off as weak.Imagine him doing deals with world leaders in his current state? not going to happen.
Unlike Trump I trust that Biden will make use of experienced diplomats and our state apparatus rather than try to singlehandedly "make deals". For all Trump's bluster he has been incredibly soft towards both dictators abroad and domestic terrorists in our own country that belong to his base.
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All this makes me think, that the USA realy should reform their election process. It is pretty much unchanged for hundreds of years and needs a serious overhaul.
The german democracy was implemented after WW2 and his way more thought out and gives a single person way less power. (For example our equivalent for the supreme court isn t appointed by the chancelor and they don t serve untill they die)
Disclaimer: didn t see more than 5 second clips from the debate, but from what I ve read here, both options are pretty bad for the voters.
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Theres no real incentive for those in power to change our election system though, I mean Lesser of Two Evilism keeps mediocre Democrats like Biden in power, and Republicans are generally looking to suffer from anything where they cant rely heavily on a loyal base.
Unfortunately I don't think we're going to see any real changes to the way the US operates. The US is operating more or less as the people in power want it to, and wresting power from them is just not going to happen without some sort of serious breakpoint that probably would mean violence.
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Once again, those debates are the most useless shit ever. The moderators have to fact check and keep in line the candidates. 4 years later, clowns are clowning.
This is a fucking joke
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Genuine question: do you see Trump as "strong"?
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On September 30 2020 12:00 vult wrote:
Confiscating his mic would be shown as a liberal gag-order. An argument only accepted by his cult followers, who will never change anyway. Its not relevant.
On September 30 2020 12:43 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2020 12:36 CorsairHero wrote:On September 30 2020 12:06 Introvert wrote:On September 30 2020 12:03 Mohdoo wrote:Curious how people feel about this on TL: Poll: Should the microphone of who isn't the designated speaker be muted?Yes (35) 78% No (10) 22% 45 total votes Your vote: Should the microphone of who isn't the designated speaker be muted? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Absolutely not, let us see these men for who they are. Why not law and order for a debate that has rules? Wondering the same thing. Why can't a presidential debate be focused on the content of ideas and ability to express oneself, like a normal debate, instead of focusing on which one can shout everyone down the most? Sounds like the best way to see them for who they are in my book. Being an obnoxious asshole who doesn't let other people speak does reveal something about a man, but it's probably something best kept a secret. Because this is America and American voters evidently don't care about policy and the content of idea's. I thought we learned that the hard way 4 years ago.
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On September 30 2020 17:37 Zambrah wrote:
Theres no real incentive for those in power to change our election system though, I mean Lesser of Two Evilism keeps mediocre Democrats like Biden in power, and Republicans are generally looking to suffer from anything where they cant rely heavily on a loyal base.
Unfortunately I don't think we're going to see any real changes to the way the US operates. The US is operating more or less as the people in power want it to, and wresting power from them is just not going to happen without some sort of serious breakpoint that probably would mean violence.
Pretty much. Even if Biden wins there's no way for him to implement any of his purported policy plans other than the stuff that Republicans want (so nothing good imo).
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On September 30 2020 12:43 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2020 12:36 CorsairHero wrote:On September 30 2020 12:06 Introvert wrote:On September 30 2020 12:03 Mohdoo wrote:Curious how people feel about this on TL: Poll: Should the microphone of who isn't the designated speaker be muted?Yes (35) 78% No (10) 22% 45 total votes Your vote: Should the microphone of who isn't the designated speaker be muted? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Absolutely not, let us see these men for who they are. Why not law and order for a debate that has rules? Wondering the same thing. Why can't a presidential debate be focused on the content of ideas and ability to express oneself, like a normal debate, instead of focusing on which one can shout everyone down the most? Sounds like the best way to see them for who they are in my book. Being an obnoxious asshole who doesn't let other people speak does reveal something about a man, but it's probably something best kept a secret.
Normally, that should be self-correcting. In a sane world, someone who shouts down the opposition in a debate would be viewed as an idiot whom one shouldn't elect. So politicians wouldn't act that way, because it would be basically conceding the debate.
But for some reason, in the US stuff doesn't work that way. As can be seen that the US managed to elect Donald Trump, the single most obviously unfit person one can imagine.
He is probably not the most unfit ruler in history, because there were some really unfit people when monarchies were all the rage. But he has to be somewhere close to the top there.
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On September 30 2020 18:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Genuine question: do you see Trump as "strong"?
At least even far leftists can agree, he has united the republican party in a way that it has not been for a long time.He has changed the republican party and has the support of many former democrats in rust belt blue collar areas (hence him winning michigan, PA,WI....) and the support of so many police unions and other unions who were traditionally democrat.
Biden is currently leading a totally broken democrat party split between the declining center & working class (who are going to Trump as seen with unions and aforementioned rust belt working class states) and the radical left led by people like AOC.Democrat party is wholly more fractured than the republican party, who can even argue this point right now?
Nobody here wanted Biden as the nominee.People didn't really even want Harris.Polls here had Sanders well out in front with Gabbard also strong.As far as leading a united party with a clear voice Trump is well in front.Thats why Biden couldn't answer basic questions like will he pack the court or who are his nominees for the court, he has to tread a fine line between radical left and the declining democrat middle and he cannot win that battle.We're watching the rapid decline of the democrat party in action, right now.
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Here's a pretty cool breakdown of the current polling information between Biden and Trump. Obligatory reminder that polls are probabilistic models and not claims of certainty. In other words, someone with an 80% chance of winning can still lose, just like how it's possible for you to roll a 1 on a standard six-sided die, even though it's less likely than you *not* rolling a 1.
TL;DR - Biden is currently winning, but there are still several weeks before the election, things can change, and "currently winning" doesn't equal "guaranteed winner".
https://ig.ft.com/us-election-2020/
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On September 30 2020 19:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2020 18:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Genuine question: do you see Trump as "strong"? At least even far leftists can agree, he has united the republican party in a way that it has not been for a long time.He has changed the republican party and has the support of many former democrats in rust belt blue collar areas (hence him winning michigan, PA,WI....) and the support of so many police unions and other unions who were traditionally democrat. Biden is currently leading a totally broken democrat party split between the declining center & working class (who are going to Trump as seen with unions and aforementioned rust belt working class states) and the radical left led by people like AOC.Democrat party is wholly more fractured than the republican party, who can even argue this point right now? Nobody here wanted Biden as the nominee.People didn't really even want Harris.Polls here had Sanders well out in front with Gabbard also strong.As far as leading a united party with a clear voice Trump is well in front.Thats why Biden couldn't answer basic questions like will he pack the court or who are his nominees for the court, he has to tread a fine line between radical left and the declining democrat middle and he cannot win that battle.We're watching the rapid decline of the democrat party in action, right now.
Ok but I am asking if you think of Trump as a strong person and leader? I am not trying to corner you, just to understand the psychology of people who support him.
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On September 30 2020 19:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2020 18:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Genuine question: do you see Trump as "strong"? At least even far leftists can agree, he has united the republican party in a way that it has not been for a long time.
Why do you think this? Do his polling numbers regarding Republican support far outweigh support that previous Republican presidents/candidates had within their own party?
Anecdotally, I have at least 3 long-time-conservative friends who just voted all blue, including for Biden, because (in their paraphrased words) Trump doesn't represent their core conservative values and he's made a mockery of their party.
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Next debate there should be only one microphone and whoever get's a question/speaking time has to move to it.
At it'll cut out when the time is over.
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Norway28875 Posts
On September 30 2020 19:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2020 19:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On September 30 2020 18:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Genuine question: do you see Trump as "strong"? At least even far leftists can agree, he has united the republican party in a way that it has not been for a long time. Why do you think this? Do his polling numbers regarding Republican support far outweigh support that previous Republican presidents/candidates had within their own party? Anecdotally, I have at least 3 long-time-conservative friends who just voted all blue, including for Biden, because (in their paraphrased words) Trump doesn't represent their core conservative values and he's made a mockery of their party.
He has united the republican party through being so repugnant that he pushed out the more moderate conservatives. That is imo quite fair.
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I just can't imagine being an adult human that can listen to Trump shout and complain on and off for 1.5 hours, and think this is IT right here, this is the person I want to represent me and the county I live in. That's straight bonkers.
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Trump looked like he actually cared, Biden just stood there as an empty shell saying practiced lines.
But from what I've seen of this shitshow, it looked to me that Biden won this debate, and the whole "shut up man" is blown out of porpotion. He just got tired of Trumps shit
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On September 30 2020 21:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2020 19:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 30 2020 19:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On September 30 2020 18:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Genuine question: do you see Trump as "strong"? At least even far leftists can agree, he has united the republican party in a way that it has not been for a long time. Why do you think this? Do his polling numbers regarding Republican support far outweigh support that previous Republican presidents/candidates had within their own party? Anecdotally, I have at least 3 long-time-conservative friends who just voted all blue, including for Biden, because (in their paraphrased words) Trump doesn't represent their core conservative values and he's made a mockery of their party. He has united the republican party through being so repugnant that he pushed out the more moderate conservatives. That is imo quite fair.
I feel like that's a tautology / No True Scotsman argument, right? I assume you're being sarcastic lol... of course Trump has the support of his supporters, and of course if we label his dissenters as *not real Republicans*, then no *real Republicans* dissent from him! XD
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Lol no one "won." That's what everyone is missing here - it's not really about "winning" and "losing" - its about empowering an effective government. Instead of meaningful policy debate we get two people shouting at each other for an hour and a half. It's pretty sad. Americans are dumb, they are satisfied as long as they can scream and froth at the mouth for their favorite sportsball team. Why do you think the NFL, NBA etc are so successful? It doesn't matter which team you support, it all supports the organization. Similarly - the electorate doesn't really care about having a legitimate government as long as they can frenzy the populace enough to get paid. There is no meaningful policy, it's just a few intellectuals clawing to keep basic human rights above water while everyone else loads their pockets with gold.
On a related note, TL.net is a pretty international community, anyone have any immigration advice? Thanks!
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On September 30 2020 22:08 Timebon3s wrote:
Trump looked like he actually cared, Biden just stood there as an empty shell saying practiced lines.
I think Trump "cared" that he's facing possible jail time if he doesn't win. He struck me as a scared and desperate man with his back to the wall. I do agree that Biden's platitudes felt hollow, but not that he's an empty shell. He seemed genuinely pained at various points, especially when Trump kept going after his sons.
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EPT
