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Zurich15355 Posts
On July 28 2022 01:49 NewSunshine wrote:
As for me, I caught COVID last weekend. Was still waiting for the latest booster to be approved for folks under 50, but no dice. Felt like hell for a few days, and then for the last week or so just run down, congested, feeling kinda not great. That sore throat it gives you is no joke. Felt like I was swallowing glass for 3 days.
My example: I caught Covid 8 months after my booster and had almost no symptoms. The only thing was a itchy throat, but not nearly as bad as you are describing it. Really I only noticed the itching when I didn't drink something for a while, so just with a glass of water nearby I had virtually no impact from Covid. No congestion, no fatigue, no headaches, no fever, no coughing, nothing. Thanks Moderna!
Then again I also had zero side effects from the vaccines where other people reported feeling pretty beat the day after.
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On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too.
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They were less safe around people who had not been vaccinated.
duh
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Still doesn't explain anti-vaxx people. If that bullshit didn't exist in the first place, vaccine mandates would not have been necessary.
So the reason it is being a thing is not vaccine mandates. Anti-vaxx bullshit predates vaccine mandates.
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On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too. Except those who chose not to get the vaccine are still an increased drain on the healthcare system which, atleast in certain places, was under enough pressure to impact the ability to treat the normal flow of patients.
Instead of a mandate you could have everyone that refuses the vaccine sign a contract that they will not receive healthcare if they got ill and would have to sort it out with god.
Fortunately we live in a society where such contracts would be frowned upon and where healthcare exists for all in need.
(and as said, being around others who are not vaccinated IS actually less safe because they are more likely to get sick. And since the vaccine doesn't provide full immunity, the more sick people your exposed to, the greater the chance one slips through and infects yourself)
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On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too.
It isn't a "feeling", it's a fact.
True, some governments did go overboard with the mandates. They should have just stuck with the "if you are vaxxed you can do this and that, if your are not vaxxed you are not allowed to. The choice is yours"
This, plus the "I don't need healthcare if I get infected-waiver" would have made things a lot easier.
I mean the amount of money and time some people spend on getting fake vaxx IDs and stuff is just mindblowing
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On July 29 2022 17:04 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too. It isn't a "feeling", it's a fact. True, some governments did go overboard with the mandates. They should have just stuck with the "if you are vaxxed you can do this and that, if your are not vaxxed you are not allowed to. The choice is yours" This, plus the "I don't need healthcare if I get infected-waiver" would have made things a lot easier. I mean the amount of money and time some people spend on getting fake vaxx IDs and stuff is just mindblowing
There are thousands of things you can do to lower your risk to COVID. I’d suggest people try some other things before the one that overrides peoples bodily autonomy for a very marginal benefit to others. It’s a simple concept. Either the vaccine offers you good protection or it doesn’t. If it does then you shouldn’t feel that threatened by the unvaccinated. If it doesn’t then you shouldn’t compel people to take a shitty vaccine.
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On July 29 2022 17:39 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 17:04 Harris1st wrote:On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too. It isn't a "feeling", it's a fact. True, some governments did go overboard with the mandates. They should have just stuck with the "if you are vaxxed you can do this and that, if your are not vaxxed you are not allowed to. The choice is yours" This, plus the "I don't need healthcare if I get infected-waiver" would have made things a lot easier. I mean the amount of money and time some people spend on getting fake vaxx IDs and stuff is just mindblowing There are thousands of things you can do to lower your risk to COVID. I’d suggest people try some other things before the one that overrides peoples bodily autonomy for a very marginal benefit to others. It’s a simple concept. Either the vaccine offers you good protection or it doesn’t. If it does then you shouldn’t feel that threatened by the unvaccinated. If it doesn’t then you shouldn’t compel people to take a shitty vaccine.
If the unvaccinated overload healthcare systems/ hospitals then I most definitetly feel most threatened by them. It's basically failure to provide assistance and at least in Germany that's very illegal and very shitty
And that's why they did get compelled to take a vaccine or were barred from some activites
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On July 29 2022 17:39 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 17:04 Harris1st wrote:On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too. It isn't a "feeling", it's a fact. True, some governments did go overboard with the mandates. They should have just stuck with the "if you are vaxxed you can do this and that, if your are not vaxxed you are not allowed to. The choice is yours" This, plus the "I don't need healthcare if I get infected-waiver" would have made things a lot easier. I mean the amount of money and time some people spend on getting fake vaxx IDs and stuff is just mindblowing There are thousands of things you can do to lower your risk to COVID. I’d suggest people try some other things before the one that overrides peoples bodily autonomy for a very marginal benefit to others. It’s a simple concept. Either the vaccine offers you good protection or it doesn’t. If it does then you shouldn’t feel that threatened by the unvaccinated. If it doesn’t then you shouldn’t compel people to take a shitty vaccine.
There are many things that are mandatory override peoples bodily autonomy, such as ban on drink driving. Do you agree we should remove those regulations as well?
We all known un-vaccinated person are more likely to have a higher viral load if infected, thus more readily to infect others.
Also, Is it really only marginal benefit to do something to lower the number of cases when the disease is able to overload the whole medical system?
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I welcome back our most established anti-vaxxer. Throwing a party right now, so very happy.
Claim: vaccination doesn't reduce transmissibility
Fact: vaccine boosters reduce transmissibility of the known variants including Omicron, despite differences in Omicron infections
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0
PS: policy still applies, I won't respond to any questions or comments, i.e. every anti-vaxxer is free to post wild misinterpretations of the text.
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On July 29 2022 17:39 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 17:04 Harris1st wrote:On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too. It isn't a "feeling", it's a fact. True, some governments did go overboard with the mandates. They should have just stuck with the "if you are vaxxed you can do this and that, if your are not vaxxed you are not allowed to. The choice is yours" This, plus the "I don't need healthcare if I get infected-waiver" would have made things a lot easier. I mean the amount of money and time some people spend on getting fake vaxx IDs and stuff is just mindblowing There are thousands of things you can do to lower your risk to COVID. I’d suggest people try some other things before the one that overrides peoples bodily autonomy for a very marginal benefit to others. It’s a simple concept. Either the vaccine offers you good protection or it doesn’t. If it does then you shouldn’t feel that threatened by the unvaccinated. If it doesn’t then you shouldn’t compel people to take a shitty vaccine.
There's nothing marginal about taking a vaccine to protect yourself and others. If you don't understand by now how infectious diseases and vaccines work that's a you problem. In the meantime you can stuff the shitty false dichotomy.
You're looking at a global situation where tons of people aren't vaccinated, and the disease continues to spread, and concluding that the vaccine doesn't work? Is that your final answer?
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On July 29 2022 19:04 Magic Powers wrote:I welcome back our most established anti-vaxxer. Throwing a party right now, so very happy. Claim: vaccination doesn't reduce transmissibility Fact: vaccine boosters reduce transmissibility of the known variants including Omicron, despite differences in Omicron infections https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0PS: policy still applies, I won't respond to any questions or comments, i.e. every anti-vaxxer is free to post wild misinterpretations of the text.
Literally nobody made that claim but good job nonetheless
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On July 30 2022 01:57 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 19:04 Magic Powers wrote:I welcome back our most established anti-vaxxer. Throwing a party right now, so very happy. Claim: vaccination doesn't reduce transmissibility Fact: vaccine boosters reduce transmissibility of the known variants including Omicron, despite differences in Omicron infections https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0PS: policy still applies, I won't respond to any questions or comments, i.e. every anti-vaxxer is free to post wild misinterpretations of the text. Literally nobody made that claim but good job nonetheless
You ignored the benefit of vaccines reducing spread.
Whether deliberately only you can tell us
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On July 30 2022 00:21 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 17:39 BlackJack wrote:On July 29 2022 17:04 Harris1st wrote:On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too. It isn't a "feeling", it's a fact. True, some governments did go overboard with the mandates. They should have just stuck with the "if you are vaxxed you can do this and that, if your are not vaxxed you are not allowed to. The choice is yours" This, plus the "I don't need healthcare if I get infected-waiver" would have made things a lot easier. I mean the amount of money and time some people spend on getting fake vaxx IDs and stuff is just mindblowing There are thousands of things you can do to lower your risk to COVID. I’d suggest people try some other things before the one that overrides peoples bodily autonomy for a very marginal benefit to others. It’s a simple concept. Either the vaccine offers you good protection or it doesn’t. If it does then you shouldn’t feel that threatened by the unvaccinated. If it doesn’t then you shouldn’t compel people to take a shitty vaccine. There's nothing marginal about taking a vaccine to protect yourself and others. If you don't understand by now how infectious diseases and vaccines work that's a you problem. In the meantime you can stuff the shitty false dichotomy. You're looking at a global situation where tons of people aren't vaccinated, and the disease continues to spread, and concluding that the vaccine doesn't work? Is that your final answer?
I read your 2nd paragraph there like 8 times and I’m still not sure what point you’re trying to make. COVID is spreading where tons of people aren’t vaccinated? If you want to know how well the vaccine is working to stop the spread shouldn’t you be looking at places that ARE heavily vaccinated? Japan has pretty good coverage and their new cases graph is basically a vertical line.
“There’s nothing marginal about taking a vaccine to protect yourself and others”
Yes that’s very sweet although you should actually phrase it this way: There’s nothing marginal about forcing others to get vaccinated to make myself slightly safer.
How much safer do you think you are with vaccine mandates? Most people happily got vaccinated voluntarily. Another group refuses the vaccine no matter what you threaten them with. Studies on the mandates show they boost a populations coverage by roughly 10%. That’s not 10% fewer people that will infect you because we know COVID is still spreading like wildfire in heavily vaccinated populations. So you might have some small fraction of that already small fraction less likely to give you COVID with your vaccine mandates. Those 10% are also not equally likely to give me COVID. Most people get COVID through close contact with friends and family. Almost everyone in my inner circle is triple vaccinated. I’m far more likely to get it from one of them than from an unvaxxed stranger.
So yeah as an already triple vaxxed healthy adult my odds of becoming severely ill or dying of COVID are already super rare. Maybe 1 in a million. The odds that I get COVID from one of the unvaxxed strangers that would have been swayed to get vaccinated due to mandates but also wouldn’t have been a breakthrough case anyway is beyond remote. At the end of the day I’m probably 0.00001% less likely to die thanks to vaccine mandates. Even if you’re 1,000 more likely to die of COVID than me it’s still pretty marginal. Most people here seem to understand this simple estimation which is why they have long moved on this “threat to others” argument towards “taxpayer money” or “strain on the system” arguments.
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Please replace vaccine with seat belt and ask yourself how you sound.
On a more capitalist note, if you die from covid - more likely without the vaxx - chances are hospital costs are socialized (i.e. everyone else has to pay). There’s nothing marginal about forcing others to get vaccinated to make myself slightly safer. pay for my hospital bill because my ideology says not to get vaxxed.
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On July 30 2022 03:25 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 00:21 NewSunshine wrote:On July 29 2022 17:39 BlackJack wrote:On July 29 2022 17:04 Harris1st wrote:On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too. It isn't a "feeling", it's a fact. True, some governments did go overboard with the mandates. They should have just stuck with the "if you are vaxxed you can do this and that, if your are not vaxxed you are not allowed to. The choice is yours" This, plus the "I don't need healthcare if I get infected-waiver" would have made things a lot easier. I mean the amount of money and time some people spend on getting fake vaxx IDs and stuff is just mindblowing There are thousands of things you can do to lower your risk to COVID. I’d suggest people try some other things before the one that overrides peoples bodily autonomy for a very marginal benefit to others. It’s a simple concept. Either the vaccine offers you good protection or it doesn’t. If it does then you shouldn’t feel that threatened by the unvaccinated. If it doesn’t then you shouldn’t compel people to take a shitty vaccine. There's nothing marginal about taking a vaccine to protect yourself and others. If you don't understand by now how infectious diseases and vaccines work that's a you problem. In the meantime you can stuff the shitty false dichotomy. You're looking at a global situation where tons of people aren't vaccinated, and the disease continues to spread, and concluding that the vaccine doesn't work? Is that your final answer? I read your 2nd paragraph there like 8 times and I’m still not sure what point you’re trying to make. COVID is spreading where tons of people aren’t vaccinated? If you want to know how well the vaccine is working to stop the spread shouldn’t you be looking at places that ARE heavily vaccinated? Japan has pretty good coverage and their new cases graph is basically a vertical line. “There’s nothing marginal about taking a vaccine to protect yourself and others” Yes that’s very sweet although you should actually phrase it this way: There’s nothing marginal about forcing others to get vaccinated to make myself slightly safer.
That's my point. You're talking that we shouldn't be forcing people to get a "shitty vaccine" if it doesn't offer absolute protection, which is a stupid argument that's been debunked like a billion times. I'm referring to that fact that of course the vaccine can't completely do its job, because not everybody has gotten it. The huge chunk of the population who want to think they know better and refuse the vaccine because they think it has 5G microchips are directly responsible for the cascade of infection, death, re-mutation, and re-infection that we've been enduring. So yeah, they should get the fucking vaccine.
Also, don't put words in my mouth. I worded it the way I did, thanks but no thanks. If everyone got the vaccine, people wouldn't still be dying of COVID. Dying vs. not dying. Not "slightly safer", whatever the fuck you think that means. What's the current death toll of COVID in the US now? Tell all the families who lost loved ones that the vaccine only makes a "marginal difference".
Don't downplay the benefits of the vaccine. That's how we can beat it.
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On July 30 2022 04:05 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 03:25 BlackJack wrote:On July 30 2022 00:21 NewSunshine wrote:On July 29 2022 17:39 BlackJack wrote:On July 29 2022 17:04 Harris1st wrote:On July 29 2022 04:06 BlackJack wrote:On July 27 2022 20:21 Simberto wrote:
I am soo fucking tired of this discussion. Why is anti vaxx even/still a thing?
Getting vaccinated is better than getting covid. Getting vaccinated and then getting covid is better than not getting vaccinated and getting covid. All of these have been very obvious, and the only way not to see them is willfull ignorance.
And i don't even fucking get why. What do you gain by being anti-vaxx? It is just such a fucking stupid position to have.
The reason it’s so heavily discussed is because of vaccine mandates. We could have just let everyone who wants the vaccine get the vaccine and everyone who doesn’t want the vaccine doesn’t get the vaccine. Very simple. Unfortunately some people that took the vaccine still don’t feel safe around others and they demanded everyone else needs to take the vaccine too. It isn't a "feeling", it's a fact. True, some governments did go overboard with the mandates. They should have just stuck with the "if you are vaxxed you can do this and that, if your are not vaxxed you are not allowed to. The choice is yours" This, plus the "I don't need healthcare if I get infected-waiver" would have made things a lot easier. I mean the amount of money and time some people spend on getting fake vaxx IDs and stuff is just mindblowing There are thousands of things you can do to lower your risk to COVID. I’d suggest people try some other things before the one that overrides peoples bodily autonomy for a very marginal benefit to others. It’s a simple concept. Either the vaccine offers you good protection or it doesn’t. If it does then you shouldn’t feel that threatened by the unvaccinated. If it doesn’t then you shouldn’t compel people to take a shitty vaccine. There's nothing marginal about taking a vaccine to protect yourself and others. If you don't understand by now how infectious diseases and vaccines work that's a you problem. In the meantime you can stuff the shitty false dichotomy. You're looking at a global situation where tons of people aren't vaccinated, and the disease continues to spread, and concluding that the vaccine doesn't work? Is that your final answer? I read your 2nd paragraph there like 8 times and I’m still not sure what point you’re trying to make. COVID is spreading where tons of people aren’t vaccinated? If you want to know how well the vaccine is working to stop the spread shouldn’t you be looking at places that ARE heavily vaccinated? Japan has pretty good coverage and their new cases graph is basically a vertical line. “There’s nothing marginal about taking a vaccine to protect yourself and others” Yes that’s very sweet although you should actually phrase it this way: There’s nothing marginal about forcing others to get vaccinated to make myself slightly safer. That's my point. You're talking that we shouldn't be forcing people to get a "shitty vaccine" if it doesn't offer absolute protection, which is a stupid argument that's been debunked like a billion times. I'm referring to that fact that of course the vaccine can't completely do its job, because not everybody has gotten it. The huge chunk of the population who want to think they know better and refuse the vaccine because they think it has 5G microchips are directly responsible for the cascade of infection, death, re-mutation, and re-infection that we've been enduring. So yeah, they should get the fucking vaccine. Also, don't put words in my mouth. I worded it the way I did, thanks but no thanks. If everyone got the vaccine, people wouldn't still be dying of COVID. Dying vs. not dying. Not "slightly safer", whatever the fuck you think that means. What's the current death toll of COVID in the US now? Tell all the families who lost loved ones that the vaccine only makes a "marginal difference". Don't downplay the benefits of the vaccine. That's how we can beat it.
Okay enjoy living in your own version of reality. Not a single reputable scientist still believes “if everyone got the vaccine people wouldn’t still be dying of COVID.”
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EPT
