EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 593
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6199 Posts
![[image loading]](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/immunity.png) Natural immunity is great, sure. Nearing 40% of the people in my closest circle have gotten covid in the last 2 months, but everyone's been at minimum 2 dosed, and pretty much everyone boosted at this point. No one I know has caught it twice, yet. My personal experience with Covid (about a month ago now) The acute phase was mild-flu/bad cold. I had a fever for ~12h, severe sore throat for ~1.5 weeks, cough for ~4 weeks (still lingering). I also had around 3 weeks of reduced cardio. I could do a single sprint (anaerobic), and then I'd be gasping for air the second I hit the anaerobic exercise stage/recovery. Running out of oxygen is a nasty bad feeling, and I was 3x vax'd at that point. Covid is not a disease you want to catch without at minimum two doses. I can see long covid being a thing, and with far more detrimental impacts than I received. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23314 Posts
I still think isolating when you’re unwell is a restriction worth keeping, and indeed culturally I’d hoped that a tendency to drag ourselves to work at all non-bedridden levels of illness might be reevaluated by folks. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
Edit: On February 22 2022 02:09 WombaT wrote: Not sure if we’ll follow, but England are to end all restrictions from Thursday. I still think isolating when you’re unwell is a restriction worth keeping, and indeed culturally I’d hoped that a tendency to drag ourselves to work at all non-bedridden levels of illness might be reevaluated by folks. I think that those who can stay at home when sick should (eg if you can work fine at home), hopefully it will be more common and acceptable now. Sometimes it might not always be possible and it’s up to those that can stay home to ease the overall burden/ rate of infection. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23314 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11249 Posts
On February 22 2022 03:05 emperorchampion wrote: I think Northern Ireland also Edit: I think that those who can stay at home when sick should (eg if you can work fine at home), hopefully it will be more common and acceptable now. Sometimes it might not always be possible and it’s up to those that can stay home to ease the overall burden/ rate of infection. People should generally stay at home when they are sick, no matter if it is covid or not. Going to your workplace when sick is stupid, because that just leads to everyone at your workplace becoming sick next week. That is why you should have a setup where workers do not feel pressured into coming to work when sick. Also, you recover faster from almost every illness if you are not working. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On February 22 2022 01:49 Lmui wrote: In light of recent discussion, it seems prudent to post this again: Natural immunity is great, sure. Nearing 40% of the people in my closest circle have gotten covid in the last 2 months, but everyone's been at minimum 2 dosed, and pretty much everyone boosted at this point. No one I know has caught it twice, yet. My personal experience with Covid (about a month ago now) The acute phase was mild-flu/bad cold. I had a fever for ~12h, severe sore throat for ~1.5 weeks, cough for ~4 weeks (still lingering). I also had around 3 weeks of reduced cardio. I could do a single sprint (anaerobic), and then I'd be gasping for air the second I hit the anaerobic exercise stage/recovery. Running out of oxygen is a nasty bad feeling, and I was 3x vax'd at that point. Covid is not a disease you want to catch without at minimum two doses. I can see long covid being a thing, and with far more detrimental impacts than I received. Why do you assume getting COVID with no vaccines is worse? Almost everyone I know who got infected without being vaccinated had from no symptoms to nothing near your experience, only one dude had a bad experience and just because he got the wrong treatment.. twice!! (thank you doctor). If everything had to do with personal experiences then yours against someone not vaccinated with milder symptoms would result in not being vaccinated being far better. Maybe most people I know got lucky. I guess that is why statistics exists, but given how biased and manipulated numbers have been the last year I do not trust them anymore. The only numbers I "could" get behind (and not fully because they are not trustworthy enough for me either) are those of the first year of this pandemic. Have you checked how likely you are of getting COVID for your age group, if you get COVID how likely you are of having symptoms, if you have symptoms how likely you are of being hospitalized, if you are hospitalized of ending up in ICU, if you end up in ICU of dying? And finally, if after having symptoms and then recovering, how likely you are of having long COVID? It is for me puzzling why people talk like "if I weren't vaxxed I would be worse/dead", where does this come from? TV/internet? I would recommend everyone to stop believing whatever you hear/see and first check things out for yourselves, even scientific articles and studies, those are also full of shit. Just as a reminder, millions and millions of people over 55 years got vaxxed based on a study where less than 500 people in that age group got vaxxed, extrapolating n=500 to millions and assuming all is good, could not be more wrong. I trust science, but not that kind of science. | ||
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Slydie
1860 Posts
On February 22 2022 01:49 Lmui wrote: In light of recent discussion, it seems prudent to post this again: Natural immunity is great, sure. Nearing 40% of the people in my closest circle have gotten covid in the last 2 months, but everyone's been at minimum 2 dosed, and pretty much everyone boosted at this point. No one I know has caught it twice, yet. My personal experience with Covid (about a month ago now) The acute phase was mild-flu/bad cold. I had a fever for ~12h, severe sore throat for ~1.5 weeks, cough for ~4 weeks (still lingering). I also had around 3 weeks of reduced cardio. I could do a single sprint (anaerobic), and then I'd be gasping for air the second I hit the anaerobic exercise stage/recovery. Running out of oxygen is a nasty bad feeling, and I was 3x vax'd at that point. Covid is not a disease you want to catch without at minimum two doses. I can see long covid being a thing, and with far more detrimental impacts than I received. It is an interesting paradox that the way out of the pandemic is also what governments are fighting with abnormal measures. When "not overloading the healthcare system" isn't an argument anymore, you might as well return to normal life and let nature take care of the problem, which we have always done with colds and flus. The Scandinavian governments all agree with me, but I am disappointed about how slow others are to do the obvious. The "what if" arguments are nearing the level of cancelling a vacation because the plane might crash. You can also easily turn it around: the measures do damage as well, and that passing on Omnicron as a mass-immunizer can leave the population more vulnerable to worse future strains of COVID. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9233 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6199 Posts
On February 22 2022 16:40 Racket wrote: Why do you assume getting COVID with no vaccines is worse? Almost everyone I know who got infected without being vaccinated had from no symptoms to nothing near your experience, only one dude had a bad experience and just because he got the wrong treatment.. twice!! (thank you doctor). If everything had to do with personal experiences then yours against someone not vaccinated with milder symptoms would result in not being vaccinated being far better. Maybe most people I know got lucky. I guess that is why statistics exists, but given how biased and manipulated numbers have been the last year I do not trust them anymore. The only numbers I "could" get behind (and not fully because they are not trustworthy enough for me either) are those of the first year of this pandemic. Have you checked how likely you are of getting COVID for your age group, if you get COVID how likely you are of having symptoms, if you have symptoms how likely you are of being hospitalized, if you are hospitalized of ending up in ICU, if you end up in ICU of dying? And finally, if after having symptoms and then recovering, how likely you are of having long COVID? It is for me puzzling why people talk like "if I weren't vaxxed I would be worse/dead", where does this come from? TV/internet? I would recommend everyone to stop believing whatever you hear/see and first check things out for yourselves, even scientific articles and studies, those are also full of shit. Just as a reminder, millions and millions of people over 55 years got vaxxed based on a study where less than 500 people in that age group got vaxxed, extrapolating n=500 to millions and assuming all is good, could not be more wrong. I trust science, but not that kind of science. It's not even close, nor is it up for discussion. If you are not vaccinated, you have a far worse time with covid when you catch it. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/bccdc/viz/BCCDCCOVID-19SurveillanceDashboard/Introduction My province's statistics dashboard. You can find similar data for any relevantly large population. Vaccines work extremely well at preventing severe disease. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15898 Posts
I've had this discussion plenty of times with real life people, and it always ends up with that. | ||
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Razyda
524 Posts
On February 23 2022 01:32 Lmui wrote: It's not even close, nor is it up for discussion. If you are not vaccinated, you have a far worse time with covid when you catch it. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/bccdc/viz/BCCDCCOVID-19SurveillanceDashboard/Introduction My province's statistics dashboard. You can find similar data for any relevantly large population. Vaccines work extremely well at preventing severe disease. Of course it is lol. The link you provided is amazing actually (This is how you manipulate public opinion) and it seems to prove his point more than yours  .There are 3 tabs that are of interest for us: 1 Outcome by vax 1 2 Outcome by vax 2 3 Vax Donut charts 1 - First thing we see is per100k rates for Hospitalisation, CC and Death. Funnily enough what we dont see is Vaccinated with 3 doses there, by quick look at tab 3 we can see that those would put vaccinated very close to unvaccinated and in cases of deaths would probably surpass them. 2 - first thing we see is that in by age rates 70+ are not included for unvaccinated ?? 3 - numbers here do not seem to work with rates presented in tab 1?? Does anyone know how they calculated it? calculating it in standard way using data from tab 3 comes at around 93 for unvaccinated hospitalisations?? Edit: Never mind only now noticed that those are Age standardized rates and cant be asked to check those. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6199 Posts
On February 23 2022 03:30 Razyda wrote: Of course it is lol. The link you provided is amazing actually (This is how you manipulate public opinion) and it seems to prove his point more than yours .There are 3 tabs that are of interest for us: 1 Outcome by vax 1 2 Outcome by vax 2 3 Vax Donut charts 1 - First thing we see is per100k rates for Hospitalisation, CC and Death. Funnily enough what we dont see is Vaccinated with 3 doses there, by quick look at tab 3 we can see that those would put vaccinated very close to unvaccinated and in cases of deaths would probably surpass them. 2 - first thing we see is that in by age rates 70+ are not included for unvaccinated ?? 3 - numbers here do not seem to work with rates presented in tab 1?? Does anyone know how they calculated it? calculating it in standard way using data from tab 3 comes at around 93 for unvaccinated hospitalisations?? Edit: Never mind only now noticed that those are Age standardized rates and cant be asked to check those. I don't see what you're reading. The rates, despite the drop in testing over the last month for anyone who is vaccinated and healthy (If you are not displaying severe symptoms, or in a vulnerable category, you do not get a test) are still in favour of being vaccinated. For hospitalizations + critical care, all rate based numbers (especially obvious in Outcomes by Vax 2), are extremely skewed in favour of being vaccinated, with more doses being better. Not sure why 70+ doesn't have unvax'd numbers, but presumably the sample size in that age group is too small. 60-69+ is a pretty good analogy for what the numbers look like though. If you're boosted and under 60yo, you aren't going to the hospital because of covid. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5934 Posts
On February 23 2022 01:32 Lmui wrote: It's not even close, nor is it up for discussion. If you are not vaccinated, you have a far worse time with covid when you catch it. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/bccdc/viz/BCCDCCOVID-19SurveillanceDashboard/Introduction My province's statistics dashboard. You can find similar data for any relevantly large population. Vaccines work extremely well at preventing severe disease. I wish people like Racket would spend 80 hours with physicians in the ICU for 1 week. I think it will change their minds rather quickly. Then again...after this pandemic, my faith in humanity is at an all time low. This is not a personal attack btw, I just feel so emotionally tired and pessimistic about where we are as a society, and how disconnected we are from reality. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5934 Posts
On February 23 2022 05:58 JimmiC wrote: It is sad with the wealth of information and the extreme percentages of health providers that agree globally that there is still such a large amount of people actively ignoring and sharing their own made up reasons. It also strange that once sick, with covid or a million other things, they head to the hospital and take the same practicioners advice. Yes I completely agree. I have been asking the same question "why the hell do you come to the hospital if you don't think anything we do is correct?" It makes no sense to me; just stay home, it would be less work for me and less stress for you | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
1- Official numbers faked/biased? Noo, how in the..? What? No, just no. Lets see, when you begin to read between the lines, spot the little changes, you start seeing things you rather not see. For instance, Germany changed, somewhere along the way, the categorization for positive tests of vaccinated+symptomatic belonging to the unvaccinated category, why? because... somehow they have to fake numbers to match the narrative. How it is now, I don't know nor care, not anymore after seeing that and many other maneuvers showing how much numbers did not support them and how they manipulated everything so they could keep going. 2- There is mountains of data... yeah of manipulated, bad sampled data, poorly analyzed data. Take the study I linked for instance, which is no CNBC article but a study used to get an emergency authorization for a vaccine..., if you find extrapolating the results of 500 test subjects to millions and millions of people... oh god, yes please, keep at it, you are doing great work, you are doing "science". That CNBC link is about a study yet to be peer reviewed about a subvariant of omicron, WHAT THE!!! Nice comparison, eh... Like when omicron first started, you could read everywhere that the unvaccinated were driving the pandemic, a few weeks later vaccinated were just as if not more susceptible. Please, do not rush it. Also regarding numbers and statistics, the moment they started doing separate categories for vaxxed and unvaxxed, but kept using 100k population you can completely throw that into the garbage bin. As the unvaxxed population wanes, its 100k population numbers rise (and for the vaxxed its the other way around). You cannot keep using those and compare both, it does not work that way, like it or not you have to start using different values, even proportion and percentage are better for comparison in that situations. Test positivity was always way better because it includes the amount of testing done in itself, but as it does not support the narrative, better use number of positive tests instead. Germany had more deaths overall in 2021 than in 2020, being 2021 the year you cannot say it caught you unprepared or you are waiting on the vaccines rollout. The best part is that the relation between positives and COVID deaths is far less than in 2020, so what did people die from? Never ask question you would not like to hear the answer. 3- Why would I have to spend 80 hours in the ICU for 1 week? So I can tunnel vision and lose sight of my surroundings? So I can ignore whatever could actually make me think for myself and question whether my reality is actually the whole of reality or rather an aspect of it, which does not equate to the totality of reality? No thanks, why don't you go to Africa, India, Asia and see what we are doing to those people just by living the way we live? I know, no need, it is their fault for being born there. I am sorry guys, I am not on your boat, the figures for World Death Rate do not match the narrative you are believing to be true, the so called pandemic had no more impact on the world the first year (2020) than the year before that (2019). Of course, we managed it, right???? Laughable. Take a look also in EuroMomo's excess mortality, how well vaccines are working, it seems we are saving a lot of 85+ folks, whatever happened to the 15-75 guys in 2021 had nothing to do with it, I guess I will have to wait until the WHO tells me what to repeat. Good night. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11249 Posts
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