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Northern Ireland27272 Posts
Well they didn’t pick and choose if you read the article. If it’s to be believed and there was no pressure, two separate medical practitioners granted Djokovic the OK for an exemption, blind to it being him they were assessing.
On the other hand, you are correct that it is not a good a look. Djokovic while existing in that ‘has not revealed their vaccination status’ hinterland is considered very much to be vaccine skeptical, hosted an ill-advised tournament where a bunch of the players contracted Covid etc.
And if you’re going to draw a ‘no unvaxxed’ line in the sand, Djokovic who seems to have as much a vaccine skeptic perspective as a purely medical out playing is pretty silly.
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I think we’ve reached a point where any mask that isn’t full face coverage is not preventing omicron. Totally insane. I’m going to start wearing my respirator to the grocery store. I legitimately think we’ll have herd immunity within a month. Anyone who works around anyone else will likely have omicron within the next 2 weeks.
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If they are not going to list the medical reason for his exemption then people are going to assume his exemption was purely for him to play and not for medical reasons.
Exemption rules here are strict, given for a reaction to prior covid vaccines, people with autoimmune conditions or those recovering from serious illness.The final and most likely is a positive PCR test for covid within the past 6 months, he had covid back in August 2020 but it’s possible he had it again.If it was an honest medical exemption details should be released, people are quite angry about this situation here.
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yeah djokovic being granted an exemption is complete bullshit and makes a mockery of the 2 years australians have had to spend in this fucking prison of a country.
if there was a genuine medical condition that justified the exemption, not only would djokovic have revealed such a condition way back when he first chose to not get vaccinated, but the entire process should have been made transparent.
instead we have a 34 yr old athlete who manages to compete in a tough sport and hold his no.1 ranking make the claim that he is somehow immuno compromised and therefore deserves an exemption whilst we were actively blocking citizens from returning to the country at some point. this whole thing is a farce.
its not even the fact that djokovic gets to play that makes me mad. i couldnt care less whether he plays in the aus open or not and in a vacuum i actually dont care if he is granted an exemption or not. its just the inconsistency of the decision making, the shameless back pedalling and the blatant special treatment that gives me the shits.
i mean im not going to pretend like this hasnt happened before because it has, but the other exemptions were nowhere near as high profile and the government didnt spend weeks prior to granting the exemption taking the hard stance that they wouldnt grant it. if the government is going to hide behind privacy laws and show no evidence of the justification for the exemption, all it does is make the government look weak and incompetent. what a fking joke
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Plus Djokovic's past behaviour has been rather irresponsible (eg throwing parties / gatherings with other tennis pros during peak COVID). He has been rather vocal on the right to not be vaccinated. His riches can buy him access to medical advisers who can craft a solid exemption application that the average Joe can't afford.
People are right to feel infuriated.
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On January 05 2022 15:32 RKC wrote:
Plus Djokovic's past behaviour has been rather irresponsible (eg throwing parties / gatherings with other tennis pros during peak COVID). He has been rather vocal on the right to not be vaccinated. His riches can buy him access to medical advisers who can craft a solid exemption application that the average Joe can't afford.
People are right to feel infuriated.
and the fine details of the assessment process havent been revealed but the least we know is 2 "independent panels" assessed his application blind.
to me it seems like this very process is flawed because theres huge potential for fraud. he could put in his fucking grandma's health details for all we know and who could call him out on it? the people qualified to notice any possible strange anomalies in the data supposedly belonging to a guy in peak fitness shape have no idea to whom the data even belongs to.
a panel which didnt even exist a month ago is created last minute for the sole purpose of granting exemptions, and like a miracle djokovic is one of the very few that is actually granted an exemption out of an already small application pool (26). if i were to believe that this entire process was legit i may as well believe epsteins suicide was legit too.
i hope at least the federal government saves some face and djokovic is blocked at the airport by border security. unvaccinated travellers are required to undertake mandatory quarantine for 2 weeks. would be sweet to see djokovic have to forfeit a match because hes in quarantine or if theres no scheduling issue, at least he loses fitness over the 2 weeks hes trapped in a hotel room somewhere. if he gets a free pass through border control also then the shitstorm would be crazy
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On January 05 2022 11:26 Mohdoo wrote:
I think we’ve reached a point where any mask that isn’t full face coverage is not preventing omicron. Totally insane. I’m going to start wearing my respirator to the grocery store. I legitimately think we’ll have herd immunity within a month. Anyone who works around anyone else will likely have omicron within the next 2 weeks.
Yeah pretty much expecting to get it before I can get my booster unfortunately. I have to survive this week before my eligibility date comes up (6 months), and then have to play the booking slot machine to get a dose ASAP if I'm even allowed to book. I've managed to go more than 2 years now without catching it (several incidents at work), but no one in my closest friend group has caught it yet.
Parents just got theirs today, so they need to make it a couple more days for protection, but they'll have a head start if they catch it now.
My workplace has decided everybody needs to be in the office because their plan from 8 months ago is still in effect to end the WFH in 2022. (basically before even the delta wave. Literally was the highest point of the delta wave when they ordered people to come in MWF from WFH if possible). Our health officer has also said that workplaces should prepare to have 1/3 or more of the staff on Covid related leave over the next month, so I guess work just wants us all to catch it and get it out of the way.
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On January 05 2022 15:47 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2022 11:26 Mohdoo wrote:
I think we’ve reached a point where any mask that isn’t full face coverage is not preventing omicron. Totally insane. I’m going to start wearing my respirator to the grocery store. I legitimately think we’ll have herd immunity within a month. Anyone who works around anyone else will likely have omicron within the next 2 weeks. Yeah pretty much expecting to get it before I can get my booster unfortunately. I have to survive this week before my eligibility date comes up (6 months), and then have to play the booking slot machine to get a dose ASAP if I'm even allowed to book. I've managed to go more than 2 years now without catching it (several incidents at work), but no one in my closest friend group has caught it yet. Parents just got theirs today, so they need to make it a couple more days for protection, but they'll have a head start if they catch it now. My workplace has decided everybody needs to be in the office because their plan from 8 months ago is still in effect to end the WFH in 2022. (basically before even the delta wave. Literally was the highest point of the delta wave when they ordered people to come in MWF from WFH if possible). Our health officer has also said that workplaces should prepare to have 1/3 or more of the staff on Covid related leave over the next month, so I guess work just wants us all to catch it and get it out of the way.
6 Months? Here in Germany, when the "Boosterhype" started I think it was 5 months ... and people got angry about it! It is now basically everywhere at three! There was a short time where a county said one(1!) month is enough, but they paddled backward because it was quite the "wtf!?"
I still wait for the Omikron-vaccination. Biontech/Moderna say that it should be ready in March/April
> https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/omikron-impfstoffe-anpassungen-100.html
(German)
Don't see a reason to speed things up. My vaccination is good enough to keep me "safe", No need to change anything in my life! (well maybe I get fed up with having to test myself when I go to the gym...)
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Northern Ireland27272 Posts
On January 05 2022 15:17 evilfatsh1t wrote:
yeah djokovic being granted an exemption is complete bullshit and makes a mockery of the 2 years australians have had to spend in this fucking prison of a country.
if there was a genuine medical condition that justified the exemption, not only would djokovic have revealed such a condition way back when he first chose to not get vaccinated, but the entire process should have been made transparent.
instead we have a 34 yr old athlete who manages to compete in a tough sport and hold his no.1 ranking make the claim that he is somehow immuno compromised and therefore deserves an exemption whilst we were actively blocking citizens from returning to the country at some point. this whole thing is a farce.
its not even the fact that djokovic gets to play that makes me mad. i couldnt care less whether he plays in the aus open or not and in a vacuum i actually dont care if he is granted an exemption or not. its just the inconsistency of the decision making, the shameless back pedalling and the blatant special treatment that gives me the shits.
i mean im not going to pretend like this hasnt happened before because it has, but the other exemptions were nowhere near as high profile and the government didnt spend weeks prior to granting the exemption taking the hard stance that they wouldnt grant it. if the government is going to hide behind privacy laws and show no evidence of the justification for the exemption, all it does is make the government look weak and incompetent. what a fking joke
This is how you get non-compliance.
People can tolerate quite a lot of shit being thrown at them, provided it’s for a good reason and most everyone else is also getting the same treatment.
What is particularly infuriating about Djokovic is, this whole privacy thing.
While I don’t feel I have the right to people’s health status, his vaccine pronouncements in the past, his behaviour etc indicate he’s vaccine hesitant for whatever reason. Never confirmed but seems highly likely he’s not vaccinated.
We don’t know (for sure, it seems likely) that he’s vaccinated. But we know there’s an exemption granted, making the former even more likely. But we don’t know why the exemption was granted? :S
There seems little other explanation than ‘Djokovic doesn’t want the vaccine but we gave him an exemption so he can play’,
He’s a pretty forthright bloke, I’ve always quite liked the guy, if there was a non bullshit reason I don’t see why he’d have let it be known.
I’d be fucking pissed off if something similar happened over here (well, many things have), and you Aussies have had way tougher restrictions on your lives than most of us here.
For the sake of argument let’s assume there is a legitimate reason, and Djokovic’s case was assessed blind by two separate medical practitioners, the most benign scenario.
If I’m a member of the Aussie government, first thing I’m doing is calling up Djokovic and saying, look Novak we’ve made a huge deal over being strict in this domain, fair enough you do have a legitimate exemption but if you want to play you’re going to have to hold a press conference and tell people why, or people are going to be really, really fucking pissed.
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Djokovic isn't a likeable player in many parts. But AO is where he's won most of his Grand Slams, so maybe he's a fan favourite in Melbourne. Will be interesting to see the crowd reception if he really does step into the court...
(I'm just waiting for good 'ol Nick Kyrgios to say his piece)
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On January 05 2022 18:07 RKC wrote:
Djokovic isn't a likeable player in many parts. But AO is where he's won most of his Grand Slams, so maybe he's a fan favourite in Melbourne. Will be interesting to see the crowd reception if he really does step into the court...
(I'm just waiting for good 'ol Nick Kyrgios to say his piece)
if sports betting is accepting bets for odds on djokovic getting booed and jeered, id put my life savings on that bet at the moment.
On January 05 2022 17:47 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2022 15:17 evilfatsh1t wrote:
yeah djokovic being granted an exemption is complete bullshit and makes a mockery of the 2 years australians have had to spend in this fucking prison of a country.
if there was a genuine medical condition that justified the exemption, not only would djokovic have revealed such a condition way back when he first chose to not get vaccinated, but the entire process should have been made transparent.
instead we have a 34 yr old athlete who manages to compete in a tough sport and hold his no.1 ranking make the claim that he is somehow immuno compromised and therefore deserves an exemption whilst we were actively blocking citizens from returning to the country at some point. this whole thing is a farce.
its not even the fact that djokovic gets to play that makes me mad. i couldnt care less whether he plays in the aus open or not and in a vacuum i actually dont care if he is granted an exemption or not. its just the inconsistency of the decision making, the shameless back pedalling and the blatant special treatment that gives me the shits.
i mean im not going to pretend like this hasnt happened before because it has, but the other exemptions were nowhere near as high profile and the government didnt spend weeks prior to granting the exemption taking the hard stance that they wouldnt grant it. if the government is going to hide behind privacy laws and show no evidence of the justification for the exemption, all it does is make the government look weak and incompetent. what a fking joke This is how you get non-compliance. People can tolerate quite a lot of shit being thrown at them, provided it’s for a good reason and most everyone else is also getting the same treatment. What is particularly infuriating about Djokovic is, this whole privacy thing. While I don’t feel I have the right to people’s health status, his vaccine pronouncements in the past, his behaviour etc indicate he’s vaccine hesitant for whatever reason. Never confirmed but seems highly likely he’s not vaccinated. We don’t know (for sure, it seems likely) that he’s vaccinated. But we know there’s an exemption granted, making the former even more likely. But we don’t know why the exemption was granted? :S There seems little other explanation than ‘Djokovic doesn’t want the vaccine but we gave him an exemption so he can play’, He’s a pretty forthright bloke, I’ve always quite liked the guy, if there was a non bullshit reason I don’t see why he’d have let it be known. I’d be fucking pissed off if something similar happened over here (well, many things have), and you Aussies have had way tougher restrictions on your lives than most of us here. For the sake of argument let’s assume there is a legitimate reason, and Djokovic’s case was assessed blind by two separate medical practitioners, the most benign scenario. If I’m a member of the Aussie government, first thing I’m doing is calling up Djokovic and saying, look Novak we’ve made a huge deal over being strict in this domain, fair enough you do have a legitimate exemption but if you want to play you’re going to have to hold a press conference and tell people why, or people are going to be really, really fucking pissed.
i completely agree on the non-compliance point.
who wants to listen to any of the rules surrounding quarantine, testing etc. that force people to lose work, be unable to see family or friends, cant take holidays or make further sacrifices when we've already wasted 2 years of our lives in basically a plus sized guantanamo bay whilst anti-vax nutjobs casually fly in to play some tennis. fuck that shit
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This (NJ exemption) looks like bullshit to me. Same rules for everyone, otherwise it doesn't make sense. If he has legitimate reason and doesn't want to make it public, Aus gov can always make it public themselves (or deny him entry anyway). I mean, public trust in government and health system is more important than some tennis player privacy.
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Northern Ireland27272 Posts
On January 05 2022 18:07 RKC wrote:
Djokovic isn't a likeable player in many parts. But AO is where he's won most of his Grand Slams, so maybe he's a fan favourite in Melbourne. Will be interesting to see the crowd reception if he really does step into the court...
(I'm just waiting for good 'ol Nick Kyrgios to say his piece)
Prior to his you know, ‘not anti-vax’ shenanigans he seemed to suffer a lot for the high crime of not being Federer or Nadal and approaching their records.
Always found him pretty likeable, if you have a few spare minutes and are reasonably into tennis I’d recommend YouTubing Djokovic’s rather hilarious and spot on impressions of some of the other players on tour.
@Evil I imagine him being booed is not a betting market, the betting is going to be on how many decibels it hits.
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On January 05 2022 23:46 JimmiC wrote:More positive news coming on Omicron, from actual people who know. Interview called "the case for COVID optimism, despite sky high infection rates", from doctor Dr. Bob Wachter, chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. You did not see this kind of thing before, we might actually be in endemic stage by spring! Show nested quote +"So the short-term risk, and we're seeing it all over the country, is the hospitals will get filled with patients with omicron. A fair number of doctors and nurses will be out sick with omicron. And so we have a pretty miserable month, even though the average patient has a lower chance of ending up in the hospital than he or she would have had if they had a case of delta, particularly if they're vaccinated," he explained.
"But very importantly, for the people that chose not to be vaccinated — I think a very terrible choice — but who made that choice, there's a pretty good chance they're going to get a case of omicron, which will give them some immunity. And it's those two things combined — the fact that the average case is going to be milder and more and more people are going to be immune to this virus — that gets us out of this pickle, I think, in February." https://one.npr.org/?sharedMediaId=1070338045:1070338046 So what's the word on Omicron reinfection rate for the unvaccinated?
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Interested to see what will happen iwth the Novak situation now, he applied for the wrong type of visa (medical exemption was not available for that visa) and was not allowed to pass through customs at Melbourne airport.What a disaster.Will they just send him back home? Or will the government grant him an exemption on the spot?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/novak-djokovic-granted-medical-exemption-to-play-in-australian-open-dx6gss525?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1641393397
Novak Djokovic has been denied entry to Australia after an extraordinary mix-up with his visa application.
The 20-times grand-slam champion landed in Melbourne this afternoon amid a furious backlash at the decision to grant him a medical exemption from a Covid-19 vaccine, allowing him to compete in the Australian Open later this month.
But Djokovic is unable to proceed through passport control after a member of his support team made a critical mistake in requesting a sub-class of visa that does not apply to those who have received medical exemptions from a Covid-19 vaccine. The error had been discovered by the Australian border force while Djokovic was already travelling on a 14-hour commercial flight from Dubai to Melbourne.
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On January 06 2022 00:16 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2022 00:06 Gorsameth wrote:On January 05 2022 23:46 JimmiC wrote:More positive news coming on Omicron, from actual people who know. Interview called "the case for COVID optimism, despite sky high infection rates", from doctor Dr. Bob Wachter, chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. You did not see this kind of thing before, we might actually be in endemic stage by spring! "So the short-term risk, and we're seeing it all over the country, is the hospitals will get filled with patients with omicron. A fair number of doctors and nurses will be out sick with omicron. And so we have a pretty miserable month, even though the average patient has a lower chance of ending up in the hospital than he or she would have had if they had a case of delta, particularly if they're vaccinated," he explained.
"But very importantly, for the people that chose not to be vaccinated — I think a very terrible choice — but who made that choice, there's a pretty good chance they're going to get a case of omicron, which will give them some immunity. And it's those two things combined — the fact that the average case is going to be milder and more and more people are going to be immune to this virus — that gets us out of this pickle, I think, in February." https://one.npr.org/?sharedMediaId=1070338045:1070338046 So what's the word on Omicron reinfection rate for the unvaccinated? I'm not sure that I've seen a firm number and that really depends on whether its 2 shots or boosted and whether you mix in a natural infection or not. What seems pretty clear at this point is that it is less severe (I've read ranged from 1/3-2/3) and that if vaccinated it continues to be a factor of x7 for hospitalization and x11 for death so you are talking it being actually like the Flu if you are vaccinated. So after this massive wave between the vaccinations and infections everyone should have some form a immunity and our hospitals shouldn't feel the pressure and we should be back to "normal". Even a new variant shouldn't hit as hard with immunity existing in most. That being said if Covid hits you like it did me it was a incredibly miserable 2 weeks so I'm hoping to just avoid Omicron all together. Same reason I got the flu shot every year, why get sick if you don't have to, being sick fucking sucks. That's about vaccines. I said unvaccinated.
The idea that Omicron is so infectious that soon all unvaccinated will have had it and then the problem magically solved itself only works if getting Omicron and not having any sort of vaccination is sufficient to stop you from getting Omicron a second time in the future, or atleast being significant more resistant to severe symptoms then baseline unvaccinated.
For Delta the advise was to get vaccinated even if you previously recovered because it was much more effective then only relying on natural immunity. With how even more infectious Omicron appears to be then the already very infectious Delta I wonder how effective natural immunity will actually be for Omicron.
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