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On October 12 2019 19:19 Penev wrote:
The hypocrisy of the West is exactly what people are upset about. This particular outrage is against Blizzards' hypocritical stance of growth prospects (money) over human rights, freedom of speech and other such values.
I wonder what an act of protest like this would look like in China.
In fact, they also boycotted weibo as Westerners did on Twitter.Criticize the relevant government units under the relevant news.@somebody to said something.
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On October 12 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 17:23 opisska wrote:
There is one important thing that people who defend Blizzard and/or China here are missing. Especially when they try to play the "this is a sensitive topic for the Chinese" card. The thing is that this is a sensitive topic for anyone who values western democracy. The reason why this is such a shitstorm is in a large part that it is about China. Because we are basically at war with China at this point. It's a war that is not fought with weapons (so fat) but with money.
China is systematically trying to impose their authoritarian views on the world using their money. So when this happens in a field we care about, we get angry. Nobody can demand that we judge China "fairly" or look at this incident in a vacuum and compare it to othsr aimilar incidents and react the same. No, China is the enemy right now and we should treat it like that. It's not about the fact that they ignore human rights and torture minorities, it's personal.
It's almost ironic that at the very same time of this fiasco, there is another China story in my hometown - the new mayor decided that he wants to exclude "we support one China" from the partnership agreement between Prague and Beijing. China went ballistic, the ambassador made official threats of withdrawing.this and that investment and everything with "Prague" in the name has been banned in china - concerts cancelled and similar stuff. What is even worse, the Czech president is deep in the ass of China, so he started even more threats - luckily he has no leverage on the city council.
This is how China works. Just recently they bought Solomon Islands by a lit of promise of investment to stop recongizing ROC. And worse things are happening in places we don't even see, such as Africa, which is poor enough that they buy it left and right. They are not only buying economical influence, but political and they insist that nobody who gets their money criticises them. This is simply not acceptable, I refuse to bow to a totalitarian regime again after my country suffered under some for the better part of the 20th century.
This is why it is OK to overreact here and why none of the "genuine chinese citizens showing us their views" should be given any consideration. This is a war and propaganda is a key weapon in it, let's treat it as such. It's a shitstorm, because you consider China an enemy now. But when trade agreement is sign are you gonna become friends again? China since long ago is considered an enemy by the west, but because the past 10 years they are threatening to overtake the US as the world top economy that's why the rhetoric has been lifted. You say people should ignore the views of 1.4 billion people, because you consider them the enemy, does not mean that everyone here does. I guess because people label someone an enemy and others as friends, is why westerners don't get as aggressive when their allies like Israel or Saudi Arabia inflict as great or greater abuse of human rights then China.
What are you talking about, Westerners as in governments or general Westerners?
Boycott Divestment and Sanctions as a movement has been going for a long time and adherents boycott and pressure people having anything to do with Israel, such as performing concerts there etc. It’s far more pronounced and sustained than anything most Westerners do regarding China. As for the Saudis fuck them but their money doesn’t come from consumer products in the same way, kind of hard for any individual person to boycott oil.
I don’t think many people here consider China an enemy at all just because they’re becoming an economic powerhouse, nobody outside of ardent nationalists overly cares about that in and of itself.
It’s the fact it does what it does AND is an economic powerhouse with the power to make other people play ball that concerns many people.
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On October 12 2019 19:24 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 19:16 aSpeaker wrote:On October 12 2019 19:08 Silvanel wrote:On October 12 2019 18:22 aSpeaker wrote:On October 12 2019 18:16 Silvanel wrote:
I am kinda wondering if we will have any incidents during the ongoing LoL Worlds Championship. Riot games is owned by Tencent but the championship is played in Europe (Paris, Berlin, Madrid). We also have one Hong-Kong team (2 players from KH 2 from Taiwan and 1 Korean) and 3 Chinese teams playing. It is unlikely they will play each other though. Riot games has issued a related announcement.In fact, HK、TW and CN games are common, as long as no one shouts political slogans in this sensitive period. I know they are common, but given the latest surge of emotions and political climate i am wondering if someone will do something. Particularly someone from audience since its in Europe. First of all, they certainly won't punish the audience.If it had been broadcast in real time, Chinese audiences might not have seen it. Of course, they should skip this section by director. Nobody want to get into small trouble.Weibo is no cool than twitter.Tencent is sure to make some announcements.Generally speaking, it will cause trouble to others. Don't do it.Just enjoy game. I suspect anyone in the audience holding up a Hong Kong sign to be removed by security. They cant do much more then that but they can throw you out of the building.
I guess with signs it depends on the law in particular country, but what if someone has a shirt or blouse with HK support sign or with Winnie the Pooh??? I guess best they can do is avoid showing it on stream.
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On October 12 2019 19:08 aSpeaker wrote:
Western-style democracy and freedom always exist when western need them and be forgotten when they are unfavorable to the West.It's really hypocritical.That's why most Chinese don't believe West.
I think that is just too dumbed down.
"Values" are often used or surpressed at to support ones causes if you have to . And every day people have to balance between them.
What values are to be uphold ? It's a decision to make everyday, in every situation.
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On October 12 2019 19:36 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 19:24 Gorsameth wrote:On October 12 2019 19:16 aSpeaker wrote:On October 12 2019 19:08 Silvanel wrote:On October 12 2019 18:22 aSpeaker wrote:On October 12 2019 18:16 Silvanel wrote:
I am kinda wondering if we will have any incidents during the ongoing LoL Worlds Championship. Riot games is owned by Tencent but the championship is played in Europe (Paris, Berlin, Madrid). We also have one Hong-Kong team (2 players from KH 2 from Taiwan and 1 Korean) and 3 Chinese teams playing. It is unlikely they will play each other though. Riot games has issued a related announcement.In fact, HK、TW and CN games are common, as long as no one shouts political slogans in this sensitive period. I know they are common, but given the latest surge of emotions and political climate i am wondering if someone will do something. Particularly someone from audience since its in Europe. First of all, they certainly won't punish the audience.If it had been broadcast in real time, Chinese audiences might not have seen it. Of course, they should skip this section by director. Nobody want to get into small trouble.Weibo is no cool than twitter.Tencent is sure to make some announcements.Generally speaking, it will cause trouble to others. Don't do it.Just enjoy game. I suspect anyone in the audience holding up a Hong Kong sign to be removed by security. They cant do much more then that but they can throw you out of the building. I guess with signs it depends on the law in particular country, but what if someone has a shirt or blouse with HK support sign or with Winnie the Pooh??? I guess best they can do is avoid showing it on stream. The venue is a private building, they can remove you whenever they want and for whatever reason.
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On October 12 2019 19:24 aSpeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 19:19 Penev wrote:
The hypocrisy of the West is exactly what people are upset about. This particular outrage is against Blizzards' hypocritical stance of growth prospects (money) over human rights, freedom of speech and other such values.
I wonder what an act of protest like this would look like in China. In fact, they also boycotted weibo as Westerners did on Twitter.Criticize the relevant government units under the relevant news.@somebody to said something.
On October 12 2019 19:21 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
We know what it looks like; it looks like Tiananmen Square.
Come on！Don't talk about that as only you know it.We can talk about it about 1989.6.4.That's really not a very good thing to do.We will certainly learn from it.But that is a color revolution.It's like what happened in Eastern Europe and today in HK.
In fact, there are direct democratic elections below the county level.And these people will elect more senior leaders.And I seriously doubt that the power of domestic public opinion can easily influence most domestic policies.Moving out of the factory because of environmentalist protests.Re-investigation of the case by listening to public opinion.This may not be strictly Western-style democracy, but it works. You can enjoy these democracies in exchange for life, and earlier Britain is not as democratic as it is now.
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On October 12 2019 12:06 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision.
We have these rules to keep the focus on the game and on the tournament to the benefit of a global audience, and that was the only consideration in the actions we took. Immediately taking away the prize money, doling out a one-year ban, and firing the casters is proof this wasn't decided for some nebulous concept of the "benefit of a global audience." Bad job covering your ass. Show nested quote +In the tournament itself blitzchung *played* fair. We now believe he should receive his prizing. We understand that for some this is not about the prize, and perhaps for others it is disrespectful to even discuss it. That is not our intention. This is corporatese for seeing the size of the backlash, and realizing that the company's interest lay with pleasing its fans. Good good fun at this sudden realization that the prize should never had been on the line for his post-match support of the Hong Kong protesters. Show nested quote +One of our goals at Blizzard is to make sure that every player, everywhere in the world, regardless of political views, religious beliefs, race, gender, or any other consideration always feels safe and welcome both competing in and playing our games. If this was really a legitimate goal, the bare minimum is weighing the consequences for a few days, and punishment in proportion to the crime. That's something in the neighborhood of a suspension of a couple weeks to a month, and a small fine, if we grant for the sake of argument that Blizzard has been consistent on political statements of any kind. I'm kind of happy that they even made an overture to mea culpa. It acknowledges a mistake, albeit obfuscating the reason it was made and the repercussions to the broader community.
Indeed, what should have happened was wait a few days then something akin to this statement, if the goal was to keep broadcasts and tournaments relatively apolitical.
That it happened so quickly and the punishments were harsh as they were really makes the ‘this has nothing to do with China’ line (paraphrasing) absolutely laughable.
For me personally it’s too little too late, their motivations and values were laid bare the first time round, very clearly.
This is how corporates enact bad practice all the time. They go with their full intent to begin with, there’s a backlash and a subsequent ‘we hear you guys’ statement, then they pull back slightly from the egregious action. Then that placates people but in absolute terms the company has still done something unacceptable, they’ve just shifted how people feel about it by making it look like they’re reasonable and responsive.
See it with loot boxes for example. Gamers like myself have been against them for a myriad of reasons for many years, then a company pushes that bit too far and they retract back merely to what they were doing a few months prior, which I was already against anyway, but the outrage is defused.
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On October 12 2019 19:48 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 12:06 Danglars wrote:The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision.
We have these rules to keep the focus on the game and on the tournament to the benefit of a global audience, and that was the only consideration in the actions we took. Immediately taking away the prize money, doling out a one-year ban, and firing the casters is proof this wasn't decided for some nebulous concept of the "benefit of a global audience." Bad job covering your ass. In the tournament itself blitzchung *played* fair. We now believe he should receive his prizing. We understand that for some this is not about the prize, and perhaps for others it is disrespectful to even discuss it. That is not our intention. This is corporatese for seeing the size of the backlash, and realizing that the company's interest lay with pleasing its fans. Good good fun at this sudden realization that the prize should never had been on the line for his post-match support of the Hong Kong protesters. One of our goals at Blizzard is to make sure that every player, everywhere in the world, regardless of political views, religious beliefs, race, gender, or any other consideration always feels safe and welcome both competing in and playing our games. If this was really a legitimate goal, the bare minimum is weighing the consequences for a few days, and punishment in proportion to the crime. That's something in the neighborhood of a suspension of a couple weeks to a month, and a small fine, if we grant for the sake of argument that Blizzard has been consistent on political statements of any kind. I'm kind of happy that they even made an overture to mea culpa. It acknowledges a mistake, albeit obfuscating the reason it was made and the repercussions to the broader community. Indeed, what should have happened was wait a few days then something akin to this statement, if the goal was to keep broadcasts and tournaments relatively apolitical. That it happened so quickly and the punishments were harsh as they were really makes the ‘this has nothing to do with China’ line (paraphrasing) absolutely laughable. For me personally it’s too little too late, their motivations and values were laid bare the first time round, very clearly. This is how corporates enact bad practice all the time. They go with their full intent to begin with, there’s a backlash and a subsequent ‘we hear you guys’ statement, then they pull back slightly from the egregious action. Then that placates people but in absolute terms the company has still done something unacceptable, they’ve just shifted how people feel about it by making it look like they’re reasonable and responsive. See it with loot boxes for example. Gamers like myself have been against them for a myriad of reasons for many years, then a company pushes that bit too far and they retract back merely to what they were doing a few months prior, which I was already against anyway, but the outrage is defused.
I may know something about this. In fact, someone posted relevant videos on Weibo the same day and @Netease and Blizzard China. Then Blizzard China said it would feed back to Blizzard Headquarters, and after a day they made the decision.As for how they decided to deal with it, you've seen it. You can only say that nationalists are too enthusiastic, or that some people just want to make trouble for others.
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Just read the statement. Wow, what an amazingly large pile of horseshit. They somehow managed to be unapologetic, lie, and call human rights a "divisive topic" all in the same letter.
The letter is also gramatically super weird, not at all how a native English speaker would word things, leaving a strong impression that it was probably handed back and forth between Blizzard and China before being finalized (which would also explain what took them so long).
You have to be pretty gullible to sincerly believe anything that was stated in that letter.
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This Blizzard statement parallels China's actions to Hong Kong, trying to appease protesters by giving a little but too late and not enough. Reducing the suspension to 6 months is not enough. I still plan to protest and to boycott Blizzard. F$%* Blizzard.
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Blizzard are still digging. People keep saying that they hit the rock bottom, but they keep defying expectations.
At this point it doesn't really matter what lie will J.Allen Brack say... Nobody believes a word from his mouth. Personally I'm not touching their products anymore.
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On October 12 2019 19:16 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:On October 12 2019 17:23 opisska wrote:
There is one important thing that people who defend Blizzard and/or China here are missing. Especially when they try to play the "this is a sensitive topic for the Chinese" card. The thing is that this is a sensitive topic for anyone who values western democracy. The reason why this is such a shitstorm is in a large part that it is about China. Because we are basically at war with China at this point. It's a war that is not fought with weapons (so fat) but with money.
China is systematically trying to impose their authoritarian views on the world using their money. So when this happens in a field we care about, we get angry. Nobody can demand that we judge China "fairly" or look at this incident in a vacuum and compare it to othsr aimilar incidents and react the same. No, China is the enemy right now and we should treat it like that. It's not about the fact that they ignore human rights and torture minorities, it's personal.
It's almost ironic that at the very same time of this fiasco, there is another China story in my hometown - the new mayor decided that he wants to exclude "we support one China" from the partnership agreement between Prague and Beijing.c
This is how China works. Just recently they bought Solomon Islands by a lit of promise of investment to stop recongizing ROC. And worse things are happening in places we don't even see, such as Africa, which is poor enough that they buy it left and right. They are not only buying economical influence, but political and they insist that nobody who gets their money criticises them. This is simply not acceptable, I refuse to bow to a totalitarian regime again after my country suffered under some for the better part of the 20th century.
This is why it is OK to overreact here and why none of the "genuine chinese citizens showing us their views" should be given any consideration. This is a war and propaganda is a key weapon in it, let's treat it as such. It's a shitstorm, because you consider China an enemy now. But when trade agreement is sign are you gonna become friends again? China since long ago is considered an enemy by the west, but because the past 10 years they are threatening to overtake the US as the world top economy that's why the rhetoric has been lifted. You say people should ignore the views of 1.4 billion people, because you consider them the enemy, does not mean that everyone here does. I guess because people label someone an enemy and others as friends, is why westerners don't get as aggressive when their allies like Israel or Saudi Arabia inflict as great or greater abuse of human rights then China. You did notice he is talking about Prague (which is in Czech Republic) so why are You dragging Isreal and Saudi Arabia into this? Are Czechs going around bombing other countries? Is Isreal or SA ally of Czech republic?
I was referring to the part where he mentions that we should ignore the views of the chinese, because "we consider them as enemies". Chinese have the right to be offended if someone supports Hong Kong separation from China... I myself don't consider China as an enemy, for one thing it's provided business opportunities for poor countries in eastern Europe, while Europe countries choose to invest in Turkey or somewhere else.
One China policy on Taiwan on the other hand every nation should choose for themselves, most countries support one china policy officially, but act otherwise. I don't have a problem with that, every country has the right to consider their diplomatic and business ties like Czechs. I respect the Czechs republic for their choice even though they could lose business because of it and that would suck... Czechs has some business ties with chinese companies... most of the 3D printers from Creality and Anycubic I order come from a warehouse in the Czechs somewhere... China has a political agenda, and everyone chooses for themselves if they would follow it and do business with China or condemn it and face sanctions, just like with the US and Iran sanctions...
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On October 12 2019 19:47 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 19:36 Silvanel wrote:On October 12 2019 19:24 Gorsameth wrote:On October 12 2019 19:16 aSpeaker wrote:On October 12 2019 19:08 Silvanel wrote:On October 12 2019 18:22 aSpeaker wrote:On October 12 2019 18:16 Silvanel wrote:
I am kinda wondering if we will have any incidents during the ongoing LoL Worlds Championship. Riot games is owned by Tencent but the championship is played in Europe (Paris, Berlin, Madrid). We also have one Hong-Kong team (2 players from KH 2 from Taiwan and 1 Korean) and 3 Chinese teams playing. It is unlikely they will play each other though. Riot games has issued a related announcement.In fact, HK、TW and CN games are common, as long as no one shouts political slogans in this sensitive period. I know they are common, but given the latest surge of emotions and political climate i am wondering if someone will do something. Particularly someone from audience since its in Europe. First of all, they certainly won't punish the audience.If it had been broadcast in real time, Chinese audiences might not have seen it. Of course, they should skip this section by director. Nobody want to get into small trouble.Weibo is no cool than twitter.Tencent is sure to make some announcements.Generally speaking, it will cause trouble to others. Don't do it.Just enjoy game. I suspect anyone in the audience holding up a Hong Kong sign to be removed by security. They cant do much more then that but they can throw you out of the building. I guess with signs it depends on the law in particular country, but what if someone has a shirt or blouse with HK support sign or with Winnie the Pooh??? I guess best they can do is avoid showing it on stream. The venue is a private building, they can remove you whenever they want and for whatever reason.
Are You sure You are from Europe and not from US? If the event is open then its covered by mass gathering laws (at least in Poland, which are very specific about when and how participant can be removed by force from the event and it is mostly limited to safety reasons. And if event its ticketed then You bought the ticket and have right to be there. The event regulations are exactly as EULA, just because something is there doesnt mean shit. It has to be in accordance with country law.
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On October 12 2019 20:31 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 19:16 Silvanel wrote:On October 12 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:On October 12 2019 17:23 opisska wrote:
There is one important thing that people who defend Blizzard and/or China here are missing. Especially when they try to play the "this is a sensitive topic for the Chinese" card. The thing is that this is a sensitive topic for anyone who values western democracy. The reason why this is such a shitstorm is in a large part that it is about China. Because we are basically at war with China at this point. It's a war that is not fought with weapons (so fat) but with money.
China is systematically trying to impose their authoritarian views on the world using their money. So when this happens in a field we care about, we get angry. Nobody can demand that we judge China "fairly" or look at this incident in a vacuum and compare it to othsr aimilar incidents and react the same. No, China is the enemy right now and we should treat it like that. It's not about the fact that they ignore human rights and torture minorities, it's personal.
It's almost ironic that at the very same time of this fiasco, there is another China story in my hometown - the new mayor decided that he wants to exclude "we support one China" from the partnership agreement between Prague and Beijing.c
This is how China works. Just recently they bought Solomon Islands by a lit of promise of investment to stop recongizing ROC. And worse things are happening in places we don't even see, such as Africa, which is poor enough that they buy it left and right. They are not only buying economical influence, but political and they insist that nobody who gets their money criticises them. This is simply not acceptable, I refuse to bow to a totalitarian regime again after my country suffered under some for the better part of the 20th century.
This is why it is OK to overreact here and why none of the "genuine chinese citizens showing us their views" should be given any consideration. This is a war and propaganda is a key weapon in it, let's treat it as such. It's a shitstorm, because you consider China an enemy now. But when trade agreement is sign are you gonna become friends again? China since long ago is considered an enemy by the west, but because the past 10 years they are threatening to overtake the US as the world top economy that's why the rhetoric has been lifted. You say people should ignore the views of 1.4 billion people, because you consider them the enemy, does not mean that everyone here does. I guess because people label someone an enemy and others as friends, is why westerners don't get as aggressive when their allies like Israel or Saudi Arabia inflict as great or greater abuse of human rights then China. You did notice he is talking about Prague (which is in Czech Republic) so why are You dragging Isreal and Saudi Arabia into this? Are Czechs going around bombing other countries? Is Isreal or SA ally of Czech republic? I was referring to the part where he mentions that we should ignore the views of the chinese, because "we consider them as enemies". Chinese have the right to be offended if someone supports Hong Kong separation from China... I myself don't consider China as an enemy, for one thing it's provided business opportunities for poor countries in eastern Europe, while Europe countries choose to invest in Turkey or somewhere else.
this isn't a separation movement........
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On October 12 2019 20:31 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 19:16 Silvanel wrote:On October 12 2019 18:40 raga4ka wrote:On October 12 2019 17:23 opisska wrote:
There is one important thing that people who defend Blizzard and/or China here are missing. Especially when they try to play the "this is a sensitive topic for the Chinese" card. The thing is that this is a sensitive topic for anyone who values western democracy. The reason why this is such a shitstorm is in a large part that it is about China. Because we are basically at war with China at this point. It's a war that is not fought with weapons (so fat) but with money.
China is systematically trying to impose their authoritarian views on the world using their money. So when this happens in a field we care about, we get angry. Nobody can demand that we judge China "fairly" or look at this incident in a vacuum and compare it to othsr aimilar incidents and react the same. No, China is the enemy right now and we should treat it like that. It's not about the fact that they ignore human rights and torture minorities, it's personal.
It's almost ironic that at the very same time of this fiasco, there is another China story in my hometown - the new mayor decided that he wants to exclude "we support one China" from the partnership agreement between Prague and Beijing.c
This is how China works. Just recently they bought Solomon Islands by a lit of promise of investment to stop recongizing ROC. And worse things are happening in places we don't even see, such as Africa, which is poor enough that they buy it left and right. They are not only buying economical influence, but political and they insist that nobody who gets their money criticises them. This is simply not acceptable, I refuse to bow to a totalitarian regime again after my country suffered under some for the better part of the 20th century.
This is why it is OK to overreact here and why none of the "genuine chinese citizens showing us their views" should be given any consideration. This is a war and propaganda is a key weapon in it, let's treat it as such. It's a shitstorm, because you consider China an enemy now. But when trade agreement is sign are you gonna become friends again? China since long ago is considered an enemy by the west, but because the past 10 years they are threatening to overtake the US as the world top economy that's why the rhetoric has been lifted. You say people should ignore the views of 1.4 billion people, because you consider them the enemy, does not mean that everyone here does. I guess because people label someone an enemy and others as friends, is why westerners don't get as aggressive when their allies like Israel or Saudi Arabia inflict as great or greater abuse of human rights then China. You did notice he is talking about Prague (which is in Czech Republic) so why are You dragging Isreal and Saudi Arabia into this? Are Czechs going around bombing other countries? Is Isreal or SA ally of Czech republic? I was referring to the part where he mentions that we should ignore the views of the chinese, because "we consider them as enemies". Chinese have the right to be offended if someone supports Hong Kong separation from China... I myself don't consider China as an enemy, for one thing it's provided business opportunities for poor countries in eastern Europe, while Europe countries choose to invest in Turkey or somewhere else. One China policy on Taiwan on the other hand every nation should choose for themselves, most countries support one china policy officially, but act otherwise. I don't have a problem with that, every country has the right to consider their diplomatic and business ties like Czechs. I respect the Czechs republic for their choice even though they could lose business because of it and that would suck... Czechs has some business ties with chinese companies... most of the 3D printers from Creality and Anycubic I order come from a warehouse in the Czechs somewhere... China has a political agenda, and everyone chooses for themselves if they would follow it and do business with China or condemn it and face sanctions, just like with the US and Iran sanctions...
Yes, each country can only choose one of the RPC and ROC as their legitimate Chinese government. In the final analysis, this is a legacy of history. He is not like North Korea and South Korea, although he looks very similar.I think the civil war is not over because there is no truce agreement.
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I don't want to get too caught up in this discussion, but let me clarify: my key problem with China is that it is actively meddling in the affairs the western world. Chinese government and corporations are deeply linked and they are using their market power to silence people on the other side of the world. I am well aware that Asia is culturally different and I give them the full right to be, which however stops at the point where they try to enforce it on me. And I am led to conclude that here again we see an example of that, China influencing the actions of a majorly western company and that is the topic of the thread, thus I believe this problem is relevant here.
Someone mentioned Israel and that is a great example - a lot of people in Europe criticize Israel (while others support it) but there is not this kind of pressure by the state Israel trying to shut the discussion up - yes, there are still interest groups and influences, but it is incomparable to the outright blackmail China employs just to silence opponents. The concept "we have a lot of money and if you want to trade with us you are not allow to say this and that" is absolutely appalling to me.
As for the charge that I have said that "opinion of the Chinese doesn't matter" - I meant especially the "new" posters in this thread. I simply do not believe they represent views of normal Chinese people - to be honest I have problems believing that those accounts represent actual people, or that those people present their actual views and those paid for by the propaganda machine, that's all. I have to admit that my pesronal contacts with Chinese people are limited to emigrants, but at least their views are generally not like this.
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On October 12 2019 20:46 opisska wrote:
I don't want to get too caught up in this discussion, but let me clarify: my key problem with China is that it is actively meddling in the affairs the western world. Chinese government and corporations are deeply linked and they are using their market power to silence people on the other side of the world. I am well aware that Asia is culturally different and I give them the full right to be, which however stops at the point where they try to enforce it on me. And I am led to conclude that here again we see an example of that, China influencing the actions of a majorly western company and that is the topic of the thread, thus I believe this problem is relevant here.
Someone mentioned Israel and that is a great example - a lot of people in Europe criticize Israel (while others support it) but there is not this kind of pressure by the state Israel trying to shut the discussion up - yes, there are still interest groups and influences, but it is incomparable to the outright blackmail China employs just to silence opponents. The concept "we have a lot of money and if you want to trade with us you are not allow to say this and that" is absolutely appalling to me.
As for the charge that I have said that "opinion of the Chinese doesn't matter" - I meant especially the "new" posters in this thread. I simply do not believe they represent views of normal Chinese people - to be honest I have problems believing that those accounts represent actual people, or that those people present their actual views and those paid for by the propaganda machine, that's all. I have to admit that my pesronal contacts with Chinese people are limited to emigrants, but at least their views are generally not like this.
I think there are two reasons for this.
First of all, Chinese people tend to prefer to communicate with Chinese people, and secondly, most Chinese English is not very good.
As a non-native speaker of English, I communicate with you by inputting Chinese, translating it into English, and modifying it slightly. In this process, a lot of "information" will be lost, so most Chinese people are more accustomed to using Chinese. That's why you can see a lot of Chinatown around the world and they like to live together. And you rarely see mainlanders on Twitter (the wall is one of the reasons), as if you opened an app with all Chinese on it, your first reaction might be to give up using it. Most of the Chinese you can see on non-academic websites are not mainlanders.
As you can see, I'm also a new poster, because I didn't intend to join the exchange before today. I only use TL's wiki about SC2.
As for the so-called Chinese influence that you are worried about, don't you think Is the same for the United States and Russia?
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On October 12 2019 21:02 aSpeaker wrote:
As for the so-called Chinese influence that you are worried about, don't you think Is the same for the United States and Russia?
There is a severe difference in quality and quantity of said influence on the affair of others from US/Russia compared to China.
So no, it is not the same at all.
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Seems like you either approve of Blizzard's actions and you are with China or vice versa. at least that's where most people sit on this topic. Well, I approve of Blizzard's decision, but I fully support Honk Kong in their conflict with China. I don't think these two things should be mutually exclusive. Blizzard has a rule and they enforced it, its as simple as that. Pretty sure they would ban a player saying 'Support China'. They want to have neutral position and that's the right thing to do for a game developing company.
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EPT
