EPT1. The amount of Tlers who are with Blizzard / China on this are exceptionally high, compared to other forums.
2. The audacity of Blizzard to say politics have no place in their games.
Blizzard bans HS Pro for political statement - Page 25
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Blizzard’s Official Statement: https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/blizzard/23185888/regarding-last-weekend-s-hearthstone-grandmasters-tournament Comment by JJR in case Blizzard tries to pull off a ninja edit: https://tl.net/forum/general/551816-blizzard-bans-hs-pro-for-political-statement?page=27#529 | ||
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just-pick-warren
1 Post
1. The amount of Tlers who are with Blizzard / China on this are exceptionally high, compared to other forums. 2. The audacity of Blizzard to say politics have no place in their games. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On October 11 2019 18:09 kmh wrote: It's a tad bit more nuanced than that. Hong Kong has no extradition treaty with e.g. Taiwan, meaning that recently a young man living in Hong Kong murdered his girlfriend in Taiwan and fled to HK, where he can't be prosecuted for the crime. That's not exactly a great state of affairs either. Taiwan doesn't have an extradition treaty with China either. Taiwan, nor Hong Kong isn't the one pushing for the extradition from Hong Kong to China, it's China that is pushing for it. The murder business is solely China's justification for it as pushed solely by their own state own media, and it doesn't even make sense as China has no extradition treaty with Taiwan anyways. On October 11 2019 18:49 raga4ka wrote:Hong Kong is not as important at this point in time to force the CCP to impose it's sovereignty over Hong Kong. Yet it is important enough to abduct booksellers and only approved by Beijing committe members are allowed to stand, and they remove those who do not swear an oath to China? | ||
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Excludos
Norway7942 Posts
On October 11 2019 18:50 just-pick-warren wrote: Two things I find surprising here: 1. The amount of Tlers who are with Blizzard / China on this are exceptionally high, compared to other forums. 2. The audacity of Blizzard to say politics have no place in their games. On nr 1: You find them elsewhere as well. The unique thing about TL is that there's no downvote system like on Reddit, so posts that goes against the majority opinion are equally as visible as those who don't. That's not a bad thing by any stretch, but it does often end in the derailment of a thread or topic by a minority few. In 2: It's impressively hypocritical, yes. However there are a large amount of people who share this opinion, and would have sided with Blizzard had they not gone completely overboard in their protection of the Chinese market. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On October 11 2019 18:49 raga4ka wrote: I know the difference, between the political system that both countries use. What does it matter? In the end the Catalonian leader was also hunted by Spain government for having separatist and anti government agenda. Everyone knows that human rights are not China's strong point, but they are improving non the less. There was never democracy in Hong Kong not with British nor Chinese reign. Hong Kong is a declining economy, already surpassed by Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen, soon to be surpassed by Taiwan, Guangzhou and Chongqing if it continues like this. Economic instability is the main reason why protests broke out so easily, but that's not the CCP's fault. Low GDP growth, high living costs, no reforms on the country's economy, high competition from Asian economies, as well as democracy activists that fuel hate for CCP and China is the main reasons... People especially those outside of China seem to ignore this factors. And let me tell you that the CCP and China want to improve the economic instability and livelihood of Hong Kongers by integrating it in to the countries economy, through projects like the Greater Bay Area. Hong Kong is not as important at this point in time to force the CCP to impose it's sovereignty over Hong Kong. That's a nice article portraying western views from the author on Hong Kong's situation: "Given it recognises no legal or other constraints on its behaviour, Xi’s regime will now feel free to deal with the Hong Kong unrest as it sees fit. The signs are ominous. Whether or not the violence was deliberately orchestrated by Beijing, as Martin Lee, the respected pro-democracy activist and former legislator, has suggested, China seems determined to exploit the opportunity it has created to tighten its grip and accelerate the process of forcible political assimilation." So far I don't see the tanks rolling in to Hong Kong Tiananmen square style. You do indeed seem well educated in the topic but I strongly disagree with your opinion. I feel many of us westerners don't know how good we have it, life with limited freedom like the citizens of China and North Korea struggle with is hard to imagine for those in our position. Therefore it is easy to adopt a "it can't be that bad" mentality, while in reality we have no bloody clue. I don't have a clue and you don't have a clue, you know who does, probably the people struggligt for freedom HK right now. Seems you will sit there, in your relative comfortable safety saying they don't have it so bad, the tanks haven't rolled in yet. What would YOU do when the tanks roll in, would you actually do something? Because it seems you are saying there is no point even discussing the matter right now because not enough people have died, when people do die it will be too late. Also the only way of conquest and repression isn't through violence, China is assimilating HK one small step at a time, and a million steps makes a mile and at that point it will be too late. But sure, you sit there in your comforts raging at other people raging at injustices you personally don't think are serious enough yet. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 11 2019 18:49 raga4ka wrote: Hong Kong is...already surpassed by Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen, soon to be surpassed by Taiwan, Guangzhou and Chongqing if it continues like this. This statement is so false and stupid, it blows my mind that someone can be this blatantly ignorant. Hong Kong is a frickin tiny population, so of course in terms of sheer GDP it is behind those big chinese cities. In terms of GDP per capita, it's leagues above any of those cities, and even Taiwan. Your statement also implies that Taiwan is behind those big chinese cities. Taiwan has a GDP per capita of nearly twice that of Shanghai, and enjoys far higher living standards. Taiwan, Japan, and S. Korea are the top 3 nations in Asia in terms of the quality of their manufacturing. Funny how the capitalist neighbors of china are enjoying far richer lives. Stop spreading false info, and do more research. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On October 11 2019 16:58 raga4ka wrote: "Century of humiliation". Wow. When someone parrots the Chinese narrative it become obvious. Because there was a "Century of humiliation", it becomes right for PRC to do anything they like in order to not be "humiliated" including destroying their people. Apparently the poeople of Hong Kong shouldn't have the principles of self determination becuase of "century of humiliation". This thread has become an insight into how the Chinese state media controls the Chinese population. You think supporting separatism in China after they've had over a century of humiliation starting with the opium wars, the eight nation alliance of Japan, Russia, Britain, France, the United States, Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary occupation and plundering of China, colonialism of Hong Kong and Macao, occupation and humiliation by Japan in the second world war and the Civil war between the communists and imperalists who fled to Taiwan with China's riches is smart? You think that after all the plundering other nations did to China they would accept foreign entities supporting separatism in their country. It's just a taboo topic, people here should be able to understand this | ||
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KT_Elwood
688 Posts
1) Hong Kong Protestors are criminals and terrorist who hate the mainlanders 2) They do want Hong Kong to be seperate of china, but they are a very very very small group 3) china has honored all the promisses 4) china only wants to help poor struggeling hong kong Tanks will show that china has lost control of the sitiuation and needs to exert force to get it back. Tanks will force western governments and especially companies to at least take a stand against beijing politcs. Xi does not fear rioters and umbrellas. He fears mass loads of people unhappy with a declining or even less fast growing economy. And let's face it. main chinese business modell still is the production of consumer goods for the west. Their production capabilities can not operate of the domestic market alone and all the advances china made - without the constraints of democratic processes, workers or basic human rights, protection of enviroment - would be at risk. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On October 11 2019 19:06 Shuffleblade wrote: You do indeed seem well educated in the topic but I strongly disagree with your opinion. I feel many of us westerners don't know how good we have it, life with limited freedom like the citizens of China and North Korea struggle with is hard to imagine for those in our position. Therefore it is easy to adopt a "it can't be that bad" mentality, while in reality we have no bloody clue. I don't have a clue and you don't have a clue, you know who does, probably the people struggligt for freedom HK right now. Seems you will sit there, in your relative comfortable safety saying they don't have it so bad, the tanks haven't rolled in yet. What would YOU do when the tanks roll in, would you actually do something? Because it seems you are saying there is no point even discussing the matter right now because not enough people have died, when people do die it will be too late. Also the only way of conquest and repression isn't through violence, China is assimilating HK one small step at a time, and a million steps makes a mile and at that point it will be too late. But sure, you sit there in your comforts raging at other people raging at injustices you personally don't think are serious enough yet. I support Hong Kongers peaceful protests over human rights violation, like the 2 million march at the start. I however don't support violence and rioting. It's not ok to ruin someone's business that he build his entire life or inflicting billions of damage to your city's economy, just to show that you are angry and someone doesn't share your political views. Tiananmen square won't happen again, China is not the same as 30 years ago, 3 leaders changed, lessons have been learned. But protesters, at this point we should call them rioters are hoping to escalate the situation... Violence and riots won't earn them democracy and freedom nor any foreign support could ever do so. On October 11 2019 19:19 Dangermousecatdog wrote: "Century of humiliation". Wow. When someone parrots the Chinese narrative it become obvious. Because there was a "Century of humiliation", it becomes right for PRC to do anything they like in order to not be "humiliated" including destroying their people. Apparently the poeople of Hong Kong shouldn't have the principles of self determination becuase of "century of humiliation". This thread has become an insight into how the Chinese state media controls the Chinese population. I just like to read on Asian culture, history and politics. Chinese state media don't post embarrassing facts about their history, but it is a thing among their people as you may know from the NBA fiasco, people feel offended. I'm just gonna post Joe Tsai's message here: https://www.facebook.com/100001583307192/posts/2653378931391524?sfns=mo There is no need to read Chinese state media, SCMP is enough for current somewhat unbiased information and I lke to read books on such topics. [QUOTE]On October 11 2019 19:14 tigon_ridge wrote: [QUOTE]On October 11 2019 18:49 raga4ka wrote: [QUOTE]On October 11 2019 17:52 Shuffleblade wrote: [QUOTE]On October 11 2019 16:58 raga4ka wrote: This statement is so false and stupid, it blows my mind that someone can be this blatantly ignorant. Hong Kong is a frickin tiny population, so of course in terms of sheer GDP it is behind those big chinese cities. In terms of GDP per capita, it's leagues above any of those cities, and even Taiwan. Your statement also implies that Taiwan is behind those big chinese cities. Taiwan has a GDP per capita of nearly twice that of Shanghai, and enjoys far higher living standards. Taiwan, Japan, and S. Korea are the top 3 nations in Asia in terms of the quality of their manufacturing. Funny how the capitalist neighbors of china are enjoying far richer lives. Stop spreading false info, and do more research. [/QUOTE] Well of course China is a developing economy, you can't magically lift a population of 1,4b to their standarts... The point was that Hong Kong's protests are fueled mainly by high living costs and economical slowdown, not something that China and the CCP are responsible in Hong Kong. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Hopefully Tiananmen Square massacre wouldn't happen again. Meanwhile, China is posting videos of a massive military build up just across the border. One can only wonder why. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On October 11 2019 19:25 raga4ka wrote: I support Hong Kongers peaceful protests over human rights violation, like the 2 million march at the start. I however don't support violence and rioting. It's not ok to ruin someone's business that he build his entire life or inflicting billions of damage to your city's economy, just to show that you are angry and someone doesn't share your political views. Tiananmen square won't happen again, China is not the same as 30 years ago, 3 leaders changed, lessons have been learned. But protesters, at this point we should call them rioters are hoping to escalate the situation... Violence and riots won't earn them democracy and freedom nor any foreign support could ever do so. If you didn't know afte rthe peaceful protest the politicans still went through with the bill, they just changed it a bit to apeace the masses. That is what triggered the riots, when massive people protest peacefully and yet it does not change the outcome meaningfully then what should the people do. Obviously I don't condone rampant violence towards anyone nor destruction but I understand the reason for it. There is always an easy way for HK to quell the anger, just cancell or remove the bill, problem solved but they seem unwilling to do that. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On October 11 2019 19:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote: So you are saying that nothing will ever "earn" Hong Kong democracy and freedom and so they shouldn't even try. Nice. Hopefully Tiananmen Square massacre wouldn't happen again. Meanwhile, China is posting videos of a massive military build up just across the border. One can only wonder why. Hong Kong is already part of China it's not a sovereign entity, some kind of democracy can happen there until 2047, but unless China itself becomes a democratic country, the chances are very little at this point. Only when China changes it's political system it could happen. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
Tiananmen square won't happen again, China is not the same as 30 years ago, 3 leaders changed, lessons have been learned. The Uighur genocode is orders of magnitude more egregious than the Tiananmen square massacre | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On October 11 2019 16:58 raga4ka wrote: Well you do understand that supporting separatism like chanting freedom to Hong Kong it's kind of a big deal politically in China and not just the government, the people are against it and will boycott your products and services... I don't think even the majority of the 7.5 million population of Hong Kong want to separate from China, although there is big hate for the CCP and mainland China in the young generations it seems. You think supporting separatism in China after they've had over a century of humiliation starting with the opium wars, the eight nation alliance of Japan, Russia, Britain, France, the United States, Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary occupation and plundering of China, colonialism of Hong Kong and Macao, occupation and humiliation by Japan in the second world war and the Civil war between the communists and imperalists who fled to Taiwan with China's riches is smart? You think that after all the plundering other nations did to China they would accept foreign entities supporting separatism in their country. It's just a taboo topic, people here should be able to understand this... Just like you can't go to California and chant any kind of racism and support white supremacists you can't expect not to have an outrage, you can't go to China and chant freedom to Hong Kong... It's funny because no one supported Catalonia to this extent when they after a referendum voted to leave Spain... It's not like CCP oppressed Hong Kong like a middle east dictatorship, they wanted to have an extradition deal with Hong Kong government which is normal for countries like the US and Canada to have. In the end they backtracked, but protests became more violent with separatism as main objective. Hong Kong is part of China, not a sovereign entity, just with more autonomy compared to mainland China. Majority of Chinese also support their government oppressive as it is. China’s obsession with ‘humiliation’ is absolutely part of the problem here, it crops up all the time and it extends beyond the understandable sentiment you’re talking about here. Most Westerners of my age aren’t hypocritical on this matter at all, we’ve seen the destruction wrought by national pride in our own recent history. The breakup of the former Yugoslavia being more recent and close to home than many Europeans consciously think of admittedly. As for Catalonia, that’s to me up for the Catalans to decide and for the rest of Spain to honour, and I wouldn’t support separatism in and of itself, it has to fall within certain parameters. Pep Guardiola, the football manager of Catalan descent wore some item of solidarity with Catalan independence in interviews for quite some period, he got a continual bunch of fines and said he’d continue to do so regardless. He wasn’t banned from football for a year and made to return his winnings. The majority of the Chinese support the government for legitimate reasons of economic improvement etc, but it’s not as if they get open access to information on particular topics. Which is the Chinese’s business and something we can’t really break through from the outside, but we shouldn’t be facilitating that control on information when it comes to the rest of the world. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17183 Posts
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Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
On October 11 2019 19:25 KT_Elwood wrote: Tanks will show that china has lost control of the sitiuation The opposite is true, tanks show that they are in control and are willing to hold up the rule of (their) law. As long as they win the civil war only, of course, if they are repelled, the province may well secede. | ||
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KT_Elwood
688 Posts
:https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/df52sw/blizzard_employees_standing_with_hk/ | ||
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KT_Elwood
688 Posts
On October 11 2019 20:43 Haukinger wrote: The opposite is true, tanks show that they are in control and are willing to hold up the rule of (their) law. As long as they win the civil war only, of course, if they are repelled, the province may well secede. Through history almost every exertion of violence was framed as "unevitable reaction". Nazi Germany faked an attack of polish forces to start WW2 over. August 4, 1964 Tonkin incident startet US full scale engagement in Vietnam conflict - while never happend Bush sr. Administration faked stories about "babies being murdered in hospitals" to raid Iraq Bush jr. administration faked evidence of WoD to raid Iraq again and kill Hussein Erdogan fakes and exaggerats kurdish terrorist attacks to attack YPG in Syria Israeli government orders airstrikes on occupied territory - only in "revenge" The list goes on, and does not start in 1939. Even if you have a powerful military, you can't just go around and start killing people. If you want, you have to fabricate a reason first to give at least your footmen a reason to follow.That reason has to make you look good and the cause right. That what assholes apparently have in comon, be them nazis, israelis, democrats, republicans, muslims or whatever. And if even Hitler needed a fucking cover up story, Xi JingPing needs one too, and a good one. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2590 Posts
On October 11 2019 20:59 KT_Elwood wrote: Through history almost every exertion of violence was framed as "unevitable reaction". Nazi Germany faked an attack of polish forces to start WW2 over. August 4, 1964 Tonkin incident startet US full scale engagement in Vietnam conflict - while never happend Bush sr. Administration faked stories about "babies being murdered in hospitals" to raid Iraq Bush jr. administration faked evidence of WoD to raid Iraq again and kill Hussein Erdogan fakes and exaggerats kurdish terrorist attacks to attack YPG in Syria Israeli government orders airstrikes on occupied territory - only in "revenge" The list goes on, and does not start in 1939. Even if you have a powerful military, you can't just go around and start killing people. If you want, you have to fabricate a reason first to give at least your footmen a reason to follow.That reason has to make you look good and the cause right. That what assholes apparently have in comon, be them nazis, israelis, democrats, republicans, muslims or whatever. And if even Hitler needed a fucking cover up story, Xi JingPing needs one too, and a good one. You're comparing whatever potential response to internal unrest that's also now being supported by outside forces to full on attacks on sovereign nations. Not nearly the same thing. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On October 11 2019 21:56 Salazarz wrote: You're comparing whatever potential response to internal unrest that's also now being supported by outside forces to full on attacks on sovereign nations. Not nearly the same thing. And yes, perhaps Bush Sr. exaggerated certain things around the first Gulf War, but Hussein did also provably gas people and use military force. | ||
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