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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5928

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
misirlou
Profile Joined June 2010
Portugal3313 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-26 15:34:48
7 hours ago
#118541
JJR, I think the point is that if you're trying to educate yourself (or someone else) you shouldn't be reading/watching a novelization/dramatization of the thing when real historical and factual pieces about it exist and are as easy to get your hands on.

otherwise startrek next generation gonna become mandatory watching for international relations courses
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17785 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-26 15:36:03
7 hours ago
#118542
I think if you want insight you can not get out of a text book about how Americans felt about the Vietnam War... Then the movie MASH provides that.

Which is why it won 8 zillion awards and lives on today as a timeless classic.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
misirlou
Profile Joined June 2010
Portugal3313 Posts
7 hours ago
#118543
On August 27 2026 00:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Which is why it won 8 zillion awards and lives on today as a timeless classic.


so did/is startrek next generation...
PoulsenB
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland7755 Posts
7 hours ago
#118544
Didnt that movie have a "joke" where the main characters commit sexual assault by tearing down a wall of a women's shower, exposing their naked female coworkers?
IdrA fan forever <3 || the clueless one || Marci must be protected at all costs
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22547 Posts
7 hours ago
#118545
Once again JJR proves he is not a person but an AI chatbot trained on the full collection of Asmongold vods.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
misirlou
Profile Joined June 2010
Portugal3313 Posts
7 hours ago
#118546
On August 27 2026 00:41 PoulsenB wrote:
Didnt that movie have a "joke" where the main characters commit sexual assault by tearing down a wall of a women's shower, exposing their naked female coworkers?

Timeless classic
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3088 Posts
6 hours ago
#118547
On August 27 2026 00:38 misirlou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2026 00:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Which is why it won 8 zillion awards and lives on today as a timeless classic.


so did/is startrek next generation...


No other TV show or movie ever made (except possibly the Original Series) has inspired so many people with hope for a better future based on science and reason. There's an argument to be made that it ought to be a mandatory viewing in schools.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States636 Posts
6 hours ago
#118548
On August 27 2026 00:41 PoulsenB wrote:
Didnt that movie have a "joke" where the main characters commit sexual assault by tearing down a wall of a women's shower, exposing their naked female coworkers?
Authentic historical preservation of demeaning and sexualizing humor of the Vietnam War era.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12159 Posts
6 hours ago
#118549
On August 27 2026 00:41 PoulsenB wrote:
Didnt that movie have a "joke" where the main characters commit sexual assault by tearing down a wall of a women's shower, exposing their naked female coworkers?


Is that a counterargument? If that is moral or not has little to do with if it is accurate in spirit of the war it is portraying. I personally don't know if that was considered normal behavior but don't see why it could not have happened in that period or even the current one.
misirlou
Profile Joined June 2010
Portugal3313 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-26 16:28:46
6 hours ago
#118550
On August 27 2026 01:12 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2026 00:38 misirlou wrote:
On August 27 2026 00:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Which is why it won 8 zillion awards and lives on today as a timeless classic.


so did/is startrek next generation...


No other TV show or movie ever made (except possibly the Original Series) has inspired so many people with hope for a better future based on science and reason. There's an argument to be made that it ought to be a mandatory viewing in schools.


If the argument to be made is lying and hiding about the progress we're making and what our leaders really view as an ideal society, sure, great argument. The curriculum doesn't lie enough about reality already

(Im not saying this to put it down. It's just a great source of depression for me and my SO seeing what we could be, what so many people want us to be, and what our leaders are doing)
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-26 16:39:08
6 hours ago
#118551
On August 27 2026 01:12 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2026 00:38 misirlou wrote:
On August 27 2026 00:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Which is why it won 8 zillion awards and lives on today as a timeless classic.


so did/is startrek next generation...


No other TV show or movie ever made (except possibly the Original Series) has inspired so many people with hope for a better future based on science and reason. There's an argument to be made that it ought to be a mandatory viewing in schools.


As one of those people it's been incredibly depressing to see the world going in that (rough) direction for a bit and then pulling the handbrake, doing a 180 and going all the way back into the age of disinformation, conspiracies, distrust of science and fellow human beings, jingoism and nationalism.

I'm sure that guys like GH would claim that this kind of thinking for us millennials is basically just white/western privilege, but up until around 2015 being an asshole, claiming empathy was a weakness and trying to take away rights from people wasn't really something that people were proud of, and I liked that world much more then this one.

On August 27 2026 01:26 misirlou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2026 01:12 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 27 2026 00:38 misirlou wrote:
On August 27 2026 00:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Which is why it won 8 zillion awards and lives on today as a timeless classic.


so did/is startrek next generation...


No other TV show or movie ever made (except possibly the Original Series) has inspired so many people with hope for a better future based on science and reason. There's an argument to be made that it ought to be a mandatory viewing in schools.


If the argument to be made is lying and hiding about the progress we're making and what our leaders really view as an ideal society, sure, great argument. The curriculum doesn't lie enough about reality already

(Im not saying this to put it down. It's just a great source of depression for me and my SO seeing what we could be, what so many people want us to be, and what our leaders are doing)


Oh, but it does. There are deliberate and systematic efforts to whitewash US history, remove monuments, books and mentions of heroic people of color, to try to sweep America's ugly history under the rug, the whole anti-DEI movement is a big part of MAGA culture and it's been pushed in to schools all across the USA.

That Interstellar scene with the kid being suspended for not buying that Moon landing is fake has been quite prophetic, in my opinion.
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3088 Posts
6 hours ago
#118552
That's entirely valid and I'm not telling anyone to feel differently. I choose to be optimistic only because it motivates me to work for positive change (and conversely, despair saps that energy away), and anecdotally it seems most people are the same in that regard. Purely on a tactical level it seems to be at least an equally good use of time to let people dream of a brighter long-term future, as it is to cudgel them into resisting a worse short-term future.
"don't try to pull a LightSpectra-Trumper"
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24292 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-26 16:47:58
6 hours ago
#118553
On August 27 2026 01:35 Jankisa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2026 01:12 LightSpectra wrote:
On August 27 2026 00:38 misirlou wrote:
On August 27 2026 00:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Which is why it won 8 zillion awards and lives on today as a timeless classic.


so did/is startrek next generation...


No other TV show or movie ever made (except possibly the Original Series) has inspired so many people with hope for a better future based on science and reason. There's an argument to be made that it ought to be a mandatory viewing in schools.


As one of those people it's been incredibly depressing to see the world going in that (rough) direction for a bit and then pulling the handbrake, doing a 180 and going all the way back into the age of disinformation, conspiracies, distrust of science and fellow human beings, jingoism and nationalism.

I'm sure that guys like GH would claim that this kind of thinking for us millennials is basically just white/western privilege, but up until around 2015 being an asshole, claiming empathy was a weakness and trying to take away rights from people wasn't really something that people were proud of, and I liked that world much more then this one.

There's certainly an element of a repeat of Nazi Germany where colonialism basically came back to Europe and Europeans suddenly realized how bad what they had been doing to the countries they raped and pillaged for hundreds of years (and funding their society with the loot) actually was.

Trump is a mask-off representation of the US tradition that goes back to the affluent, genocidal, land stealing, rapist, slavers that founded the country.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1095 Posts
5 hours ago
#118554
Hi, MASH was a representation of the Korean War, not Vietnam.

It’d be nice if people even vaguely knew what they were talking about before they all had an opinion on it.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6418 Posts
4 hours ago
#118555
On August 27 2026 00:41 PoulsenB wrote:
Didnt that movie have a "joke" where the main characters commit sexual assault by tearing down a wall of a women's shower, exposing their naked female coworkers?

Yes some of the male leads who were drafted into the army made a prank on the bodily autonomy of the female lead.

On August 27 2026 02:58 RenSC2 wrote:
Hi, MASH was a representation of the Korean War, not Vietnam.

It’d be nice if people even vaguely knew what they were talking about before they all had an opinion on it.

JimmyJRaynor's point goes beyond the setting on purpose. The book is just Korea. The film is different. It's literally about Korea but widely interpreted as an allegory for Vietnam due to how it connected with the zeitgeist and the fact that the director said that's what he wanted. In a more specific way than simply like how All Quiet on the Western Front is anti-war in a universalist way.

There's no specific reason to pick on MASH, except maybe JimmyJRaynor is still upset Trapper left without saying goodbye. Everything explicitly or implicitly about Vietnam had the same underpinnings. The stark ironies, wanton brutality, contradictions, nihilism, basically doomerism. It took until the late 80s with Hamburger Hill and Tour of Duty before there was anything that treated Vietnam from any angle other than that.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17785 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-26 19:48:47
3 hours ago
#118556
On August 27 2026 02:58 RenSC2 wrote:
Hi, MASH was a representation of the Korean War, not Vietnam.

It’d be nice if people even vaguely knew what they were talking about before they all had an opinion on it.

you think i don't know that? huh? read my past posts.
the MASH movie came out in 1970 and was both a reflection of and a influence on how Americans viewed the Vietnam War because the Vietnam War was going on in 1970. The Korean War took place ~1950.

it'd be nice if you read my posts.
here you go.
On April 25 2026 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
MASH* is considered one of the biggest and most significant television shows in US history. Running for 11 seasons (1972–1983). In that show, they'd sometimes made a big deal about American surgeons saving the lives of Communist North Koreans. Welp, no need for the drama of a fake TV show folks... it still happens in 2026 ... in reality.

https://tl.net/forum/entertainment/87868-movie-discussion?page=393#7856

so, of course, i knew MASH took place during the Korean war. However, if oyu want... hop on Discord and you can quiz me about the show or the movie or both. I've seen the movie prolly 10 times. Like I said, it is an all time classic.

Now let's see how unusual my opinion is about the 1970 movie MASH.
Q:"would you say the 1970 movie MASH was both a reflection of and an influence on how Americans viewed the vietnam war"

+ Show Spoiler +
Yes, the 1970 movie MASH* was both a profound reflection of and a major influence on how Americans viewed the Vietnam War.Even though the movie is explicitly set during the Korean War, audiences and critics in 1970 universally understood it as a thinly veiled satire of the ongoing conflict in Vietnam.How it Reflected the Vietnam WarAnti-Authoritarian Tone: By 1970, American public support for the Vietnam War had plummeted. MASH* reflected this growing cynicism by portraying military brass and institutional authority as incompetent, bureaucratic, and out of touch.De-Romanticizing Combat: Traditional Hollywood war films celebrated patriotism and heroism. MASH* reflected the grim, chaotic reality of modern warfare by focusing on the bloody, conveyor-belt nature of the surgical tents.Draft-Era Counterculture: The main characters (Hawkeye and Trapper John) embodied the drafted American youth of the late 1960s—disrespectful of military posture, fond of counterculture rebellion, and just trying to survive an absurd situation.How it Influenced American ViewsMainstreaming Dissent: The movie used dark comedy to make anti-war sentiment accessible and highly entertaining. It grossed over $80 million, bringing anti-establishment skepticism into mainstream American theaters.Shifting Media Tropes: MASH* helped shift the cultural narrative of the American soldier from a flawless patriot to a flawed, traumatized victim of a broken system. This paved the way for later, darker Vietnam films like Platoon and Apocalypse Now.The TV Show Legacy: The movie's massive success directly spawned the MASH* television series (1972–1983). The show spent over a decade filtering the fatigue, grief, and moral ambiguity of the Vietnam era into American living rooms every week.If you are interested, we can explore how the original book's author felt about the movie's anti-war tone, or look into other 1970s films that directly addressed Vietnam.

So there you have it. My opinion is pretty much just the common consensus. Pretty much dead straight ahead right down the middle.

Sources:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/MASH-film-by-Altman
https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/history/mash-reflects-antiwar-sentiments
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/mash/

I highly recommend watching the movie. I'm in good company with that opinion though.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1643 Posts
3 hours ago
#118557
On August 27 2026 01:46 LightSpectra wrote:
That's entirely valid and I'm not telling anyone to feel differently. I choose to be optimistic only because it motivates me to work for positive change (and conversely, despair saps that energy away), and anecdotally it seems most people are the same in that regard. Purely on a tactical level it seems to be at least an equally good use of time to let people dream of a brighter long-term future, as it is to cudgel them into resisting a worse short-term future.


Oh, I don't disagree that being optimistic and trying to instill these values to next generation is a bad thing, at all, I'm just trying to lay out my path of disillusionment.

For me, it's hard to choose optimism, but I don't let it "get to me", I try to live like the Star Trek future is still ahead of us, I plan to have a child, I work and try to advance in my career to give it a better future, I plant trees that I hope their kid will one day also be able to play under.

It's just kind of hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when the walls that kept the tunnel up apparently keep on falling with no end in sight.
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46303 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-08-26 22:17:11
2 hours ago
#118558
On August 27 2026 04:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2026 02:58 RenSC2 wrote:
Hi, MASH was a representation of the Korean War, not Vietnam.

It’d be nice if people even vaguely knew what they were talking about before they all had an opinion on it.

you think i don't know that? huh? read my past posts.
the MASH movie came out in 1970 and was both a reflection of and a influence on how Americans viewed the Vietnam War because the Vietnam War was going on in 1970. The Korean War took place ~1950.

it'd be nice if you read my posts.
here you go.
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2026 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
MASH* is considered one of the biggest and most significant television shows in US history. Running for 11 seasons (1972–1983). In that show, they'd sometimes made a big deal about American surgeons saving the lives of Communist North Koreans. Welp, no need for the drama of a fake TV show folks... it still happens in 2026 ... in reality.

https://tl.net/forum/entertainment/87868-movie-discussion?page=393#7856

so, of course, i knew MASH took place during the Korean war. However, if oyu want... hop on Discord and you can quiz me about the show or the movie or both. I've seen the movie prolly 10 times. Like I said, it is an all time classic.

That's quite an ask, since the post you pasted is from several months ago. In contrast, RenSC2 was likely referring to the post you just wrote a few hours ago on this very thread and exact same page:
On August 27 2026 00:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
I think if you want insight you can not get out of a text book about how Americans felt about the Vietnam War... Then the movie MASH provides that.

Which is why it won 8 zillion awards and lives on today as a timeless classic.

P.S. - Your link is from 2017... and in the movie forum thread.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
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