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I've been reading "conservative" sources/message boards
(r/conservative, some people on x etc) as a part of my weekly digest to get a feel for how various groups think about stuff.
Why is there such a hyperfixation on Europe? And why is it getting worse?
We are really living rent free in the MAGA heads. Of course they also don't know anything about Europe.
But mostly the US is in news and discussions when it has recently done something. But even then it's quite minimal.
Meanwhile it feels like half of the topics are about Europe at any given time on conservative media.
Is there some kind of organized bot campaign from Russia or China something? It used to be that American discussions and news were very insular and US centric.
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They need to demonize the European continent to make sure their followers don't idealize the working conditions over there. Things like free healthcare, a month of vacation, parental leave, public transport.
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I think it’s that things are going bad in the US, you can’t blame the government when dear leader controls all the levels of government and the judiciary. A new scape goat is needed and Europe has liberal values, which are bad for reasons, so they picked them.
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United States44372 Posts
On May 28 2026 00:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
I've been reading "conservative" sources/message boards
(r/conservative, some people on x etc) as a part of my weekly digest to get a feel for how various groups think about stuff.
Why is there such a hyperfixation on Europe? And why is it getting worse?
We are really living rent free in the MAGA heads. Of course they also don't know anything about Europe.
But mostly the US is in news and discussions when it has recently done something. But even then it's quite minimal.
Meanwhile it feels like half of the topics are about Europe at any given time on conservative media.
Is there some kind of organized bot campaign from Russia or China something? It used to be that American discussions and news were very insular and US centric.
Fascism requires an enemy and they don’t want it to be conservative totalitarian states because the fascists get most of their funding from those. Ideologically they need the enemy to not be led by a hyper masculine parody strongman.
It’s an ideology built on hate of a perceived weak feminine other. They can’t just do their own thing and succeed on their own merits because they haven’t got an own thing and they have no merits. They need to be fixated on Europe to avoid attention on the vacuum where values should be.
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On May 28 2026 00:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
Why is there such a hyperfixation on Europe? And why is it getting worse?
I talked to my MAGA relatives about that a few years ago. Essentially they think of Europe as a parallel America where the majority aren't Christian anymore and they're overly tolerant of Muslims and gay people. So any bad things that happen in Europe are consequent of those two things. On the other hand, they think good things happen in Europe because they don't have as many black people (that's where the "the Nordic model only works because there's less multiculturalism there" nonsense comes from).
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Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On May 28 2026 02:20 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2026 00:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
Why is there such a hyperfixation on Europe? And why is it getting worse? I talked to my MAGA relatives about that a few years ago. Essentially they think of Europe as a parallel America where the majority aren't Christian anymore and they're overly tolerant of Muslims and gay people. So any bad things that happen in Europe are consequent to that. On the other hand, good things happening in Europe is because they don't have as many black people (that's where the "the Nordic model only works because there's less multiculturalism there" nonsense comes from).
This tracks
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On May 27 2026 00:08 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2026 08:16 Razyda wrote:On May 26 2026 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 23 2026 00:51 Dan HH wrote:On May 22 2026 23:05 WombaT wrote:
Has anyone tried to model this, or similarly radical tax reform policies on a facsimile of a big modern economy?
I’m sure it’s fabulously complicated and would require a hefty chunk of computing power, but curious if any of you have encountered anything in this domain + Show Spoiler +We're far off from being able to properly simulate something so behaviorally complex, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to have a new economic system that entirely relies on the very same metric (total transaction value) it torpedoes. The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah. I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being. You putting cart in front of the horse, once critical threshold is reached people will organise just fine. Organising before would be actually detrimental to your cause. On May 26 2026 07:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 26 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2026 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 23 2026 00:51 Dan HH wrote:On May 22 2026 23:05 WombaT wrote:
Has anyone tried to model this, or similarly radical tax reform policies on a facsimile of a big modern economy?
I’m sure it’s fabulously complicated and would require a hefty chunk of computing power, but curious if any of you have encountered anything in this domain + Show Spoiler +We're far off from being able to properly simulate something so behaviorally complex, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to have a new economic system that entirely relies on the very same metric (total transaction value) it torpedoes. The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah. I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being. What are you basing that belief on? A variety of factors. Including but not limited to: A far more equitable wealth distribution already has ~90%+ support in the US. My own anecdotal political organizing experiences. There's plenty of urgency and will, but most people I encounter feel like what they are lacking is a clear organization they can join with meaningful ways they can actualize their goals/ideals/etc. Various economic indicators show increasing numbers of people are reaching breaking points and being forced to make tough decisions they never expected to have to make. History. Organizing smaller groups of already mostly like-minded people to take direct action in order to seize and use various types of power/leverage in order to force the status quo that is maintained by everyone else to change is how pretty much all the good stuff has been accomplished in the US. I think you make rather wild assumption here. This 90% may support more equitable wealth distribution, but that doesnt mean their solution is the same, so it is rather hard to organise them. I mean, there may be KKK members or neo nazis supporting "A far more equitable wealth distribution", however their solution is probably drastically different than yours. I actually agree with you for once! I kid, I do sometimes on other occasions :p If I were to hazard a guess a lot of people would love a better distribution, but for them. Pensioners in the UK love the pension triple lock that safeguards them against economic shocks, it doesn’t mean many don’t consistently vote for tickets that say theyre going to cut welfare/benefits for other groups Then there’s the mechanisms. My personal position is capitalism gonna capitalism, especially in a culture that broadly buys in wholesale. However, I imagine many respondents wanna keep it, just with the rough edges filed off.
Considering the first anti-organizing part is completely asinine and nonsensical, and you didn't mention it specifically, I have to believe you ignored it so you could say you agreed with the rest of Razyda's post.
As for the reality that people vote against their own interests because they have been propagandized to believe that's their best/only choice, that is part of what organizing is meant to address.
As for racists and bigots being selfishly motivated, that's what got us "The New Deal", which iirc is the biggest accomplishment Democrats can claim.
Republican voters want a far more equitable wealth distribution than the US has but they have no idea how to make it happen, same goes for Democrat voters (neither realize how bad it actually is). What is clear is that voting for them isn't going to get it, and it's only getting worse until it finally breaks. Without organization at the community level, it'll be a chaotic mess where those that are still holding wealth and power will reconsolidate under a new (likely worse) regime.
This all isn't unrelated to the description lightspectra just provided about both parties' fixation on Europe as a model or warning sign depending on the topic/country.
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On May 28 2026 02:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 00:08 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2026 08:16 Razyda wrote:On May 26 2026 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 23 2026 00:51 Dan HH wrote:On May 22 2026 23:05 WombaT wrote:
Has anyone tried to model this, or similarly radical tax reform policies on a facsimile of a big modern economy?
I’m sure it’s fabulously complicated and would require a hefty chunk of computing power, but curious if any of you have encountered anything in this domain + Show Spoiler +We're far off from being able to properly simulate something so behaviorally complex, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to have a new economic system that entirely relies on the very same metric (total transaction value) it torpedoes. The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah. I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being. You putting cart in front of the horse, once critical threshold is reached people will organise just fine. Organising before would be actually detrimental to your cause. On May 26 2026 07:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 26 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2026 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 23 2026 00:51 Dan HH wrote:On May 22 2026 23:05 WombaT wrote:
Has anyone tried to model this, or similarly radical tax reform policies on a facsimile of a big modern economy?
I’m sure it’s fabulously complicated and would require a hefty chunk of computing power, but curious if any of you have encountered anything in this domain + Show Spoiler +We're far off from being able to properly simulate something so behaviorally complex, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to have a new economic system that entirely relies on the very same metric (total transaction value) it torpedoes. The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah. I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being. What are you basing that belief on? A variety of factors. Including but not limited to: A far more equitable wealth distribution already has ~90%+ support in the US. My own anecdotal political organizing experiences. There's plenty of urgency and will, but most people I encounter feel like what they are lacking is a clear organization they can join with meaningful ways they can actualize their goals/ideals/etc. Various economic indicators show increasing numbers of people are reaching breaking points and being forced to make tough decisions they never expected to have to make. History. Organizing smaller groups of already mostly like-minded people to take direct action in order to seize and use various types of power/leverage in order to force the status quo that is maintained by everyone else to change is how pretty much all the good stuff has been accomplished in the US. I think you make rather wild assumption here. This 90% may support more equitable wealth distribution, but that doesnt mean their solution is the same, so it is rather hard to organise them. I mean, there may be KKK members or neo nazis supporting "A far more equitable wealth distribution", however their solution is probably drastically different than yours. I actually agree with you for once! I kid, I do sometimes on other occasions :p If I were to hazard a guess a lot of people would love a better distribution, but for them. Pensioners in the UK love the pension triple lock that safeguards them against economic shocks, it doesn’t mean many don’t consistently vote for tickets that say theyre going to cut welfare/benefits for other groups Then there’s the mechanisms. My personal position is capitalism gonna capitalism, especially in a culture that broadly buys in wholesale. However, I imagine many respondents wanna keep it, just with the rough edges filed off. Considering the first anti-organizing part is completely asinine and nonsensical, and you didn't mention it specifically, I have to believe you ignored it so you could say you agreed with the rest of Razyda's post. As for the reality that people vote against their own interests because they have been propagandized to believe that's their best/only choice, that is part of what organizing is meant to address. As for racists and bigots being selfishly motivated, that's what got us "The New Deal", which iirc is the biggest accomplishment Democrats can claim. Republican voters want a far more equitable wealth distribution than the US has but they have no idea how to make it happen, same goes for Democrat voters (neither realize how bad it actually is). What is clear is that voting for them isn't going to get it, and it's only getting worse until it finally breaks. Without organization at the community level, it'll be a chaotic mess where those that are still holding wealth and power will reconsolidate under a new (likely worse) regime. This all isn't unrelated to the description lightspectra just provided about both parties' fixation on Europe as a model or warning sign depending on the topic/country.
It is only nonsensical if your end goal is to grab the power (which btw I am confident it is), not if your goal is to actually implement changes.
On a side note, while you may be correct that Wombat only agreed with second part of my post, then idea that he did only to agree with his (apparently) new found guru Razyda is comical.
"Republican voters want a far more equitable wealth distribution than the US has but they have no idea how to make it happen, same goes for Democrat voters (neither realize how bad it actually is)."
They do have ideas, it just that their ideas are different than yours. Given that your idea is socialism theirs are better by default.
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I've been sounding the alarms ever since the Trump re-election that there is an actual axis of evil in the world, and they fucking HATE EU and Europe in general.
I'm bored of myself especially since no one seems to really care and I referred to it in half a dozen posts over the last year, but official USA National Security Strategy section on Europe calls for a culture war and overthrowing overly liberal governments, it completely tracks with JD Vance's Munich conference speech and the lipstick on a pig version that Rubio gave this year that had our resident "centrist" posters here loved.
When it comes to human and worker rights, EU is the "shining city on the hill" and Xi, Putin and Trump hate it because it's a horrible contrast to what they are doing to people at home.
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On May 28 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:
When it comes to human and worker rights, EU is the "shining city on the hill" and Xi, Putin and Trump hate it because it's a horrible contrast to what they are doing to people at home.
They dont hate it, they hold it in contempt, and not because of the reasons you mentioned, but because Europe is essentially non factor and yet it keep acting all high and mighty.
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Is it normal to hold non-factors in contempt? That doesn't sound like a completed train of thought.
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On May 28 2026 05:09 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:
When it comes to human and worker rights, EU is the "shining city on the hill" and Xi, Putin and Trump hate it because it's a horrible contrast to what they are doing to people at home. They dont hate it, they hold it in contempt, and not because of the reasons you mentioned, but because Europe is essentially non factor and yet it keep acting all high and mighty.
Can you please explain in which way Europe is essentially a non factor. Because I keep hearing it but never with actual reasons.
Secondly 95% of Europeans think way less about the US than the average MAGA seems to think about us. Most countries on earth have their own foreign policy and voice their opinion about it. I keep in touch and it's rarely "high and mighty". But maybe it doesn't always suck off Trump either.
There does seem to be a weird habit of conservative sites to take some very fringe voices from Europe (Greta Thunberg as one obvious Swedish example) and equate them to the rest of the continent.
For the people who keep up with the US their opinions might generally be lowering. When I grew up there were a lot of people who wanted to move to America and the view of it was that life "over there" was quite amazing.
Nowadays life for many Americans seem quite dystopian.
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On May 28 2026 05:09 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:
When it comes to human and worker rights, EU is the "shining city on the hill" and Xi, Putin and Trump hate it because it's a horrible contrast to what they are doing to people at home. They dont hate it, they hold it in contempt, and not because of the reasons you mentioned, but because Europe is essentially non factor and yet it keep acting all high and mighty. Right-wing ideology: The EU boasts of the gentler and kinder liberal society, all the while the US is subsidizing their defense budgets through NATO, and thus their welfare state by extension. All the while, they’ve exchanged core freedoms and justice for the promise of safety and security. Their domestic policy is flawed. They are overly dependent on Russian energy. They should be regarded as on a diverging path from the US and subject to less partnership.
The more stringent right-wingers will use europoor and caretaker governments of tourist destinations.
(I take it that Europeans, for their part, also think America is backwards or uncultured.
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On May 28 2026 05:33 LightSpectra wrote:
Is it normal to hold non-factors in contempt? That doesn't sound like a completed train of thought.
Non Factors which act high and mighty? Yes.
On May 28 2026 05:48 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2026 05:09 Razyda wrote:On May 28 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:
When it comes to human and worker rights, EU is the "shining city on the hill" and Xi, Putin and Trump hate it because it's a horrible contrast to what they are doing to people at home. They dont hate it, they hold it in contempt, and not because of the reasons you mentioned, but because Europe is essentially non factor and yet it keep acting all high and mighty. Can you please explain in which way Europe is essentially a non factor. Because I keep hearing it but never with actual reasons. Secondly 95% of Europeans think way less about the US than the average MAGA seems to think about us. Most countries on earth have their own foreign policy and voice their opinion about it. I keep in touch and it's rarely "high and mighty". But maybe it doesn't always suck off Trump either. There does seem to be a weird habit of conservative sites to take some very fringe voices from Europe (Greta Thunberg as one obvious Swedish example) and equate them to the rest of the continent. For the people who keep up with the US their opinions might generally be lowering. When I grew up there were a lot of people who wanted to move to America and the view of it was that life "over there" was quite amazing. Nowadays life for many Americans seem quite dystopian.
Prettty much in any way which matter. Is it a source of rare minerals? Big Tech? Military strength? Food exporter? Oil is I believe pretty much limited to Norway and UK. Pretty much what EU have is roughly 500kk customers which it carefully shepherd what they can buy from whom. Sad truth is that if Europe disappeared from the world tomorrow it would result only in financial crisis, because it doesnt supply anything necessary to keep world rolling and it also isnt any sort of stabilising force. Being Polish (so European) I am not exactly happy about it, but it is what it is.
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That was possibly the dumbest thing you've ever written in this thread. Take a victory lap.
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Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On May 28 2026 02:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2026 00:08 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2026 08:16 Razyda wrote:On May 26 2026 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 23 2026 00:51 Dan HH wrote:On May 22 2026 23:05 WombaT wrote:
Has anyone tried to model this, or similarly radical tax reform policies on a facsimile of a big modern economy?
I’m sure it’s fabulously complicated and would require a hefty chunk of computing power, but curious if any of you have encountered anything in this domain + Show Spoiler +We're far off from being able to properly simulate something so behaviorally complex, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to have a new economic system that entirely relies on the very same metric (total transaction value) it torpedoes. The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah. I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being. You putting cart in front of the horse, once critical threshold is reached people will organise just fine. Organising before would be actually detrimental to your cause. On May 26 2026 07:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 26 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2026 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 23 2026 00:51 Dan HH wrote:On May 22 2026 23:05 WombaT wrote:
Has anyone tried to model this, or similarly radical tax reform policies on a facsimile of a big modern economy?
I’m sure it’s fabulously complicated and would require a hefty chunk of computing power, but curious if any of you have encountered anything in this domain + Show Spoiler +We're far off from being able to properly simulate something so behaviorally complex, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to have a new economic system that entirely relies on the very same metric (total transaction value) it torpedoes. The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah. I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being. What are you basing that belief on? A variety of factors. Including but not limited to: A far more equitable wealth distribution already has ~90%+ support in the US. My own anecdotal political organizing experiences. There's plenty of urgency and will, but most people I encounter feel like what they are lacking is a clear organization they can join with meaningful ways they can actualize their goals/ideals/etc. Various economic indicators show increasing numbers of people are reaching breaking points and being forced to make tough decisions they never expected to have to make. History. Organizing smaller groups of already mostly like-minded people to take direct action in order to seize and use various types of power/leverage in order to force the status quo that is maintained by everyone else to change is how pretty much all the good stuff has been accomplished in the US. I think you make rather wild assumption here. This 90% may support more equitable wealth distribution, but that doesnt mean their solution is the same, so it is rather hard to organise them. I mean, there may be KKK members or neo nazis supporting "A far more equitable wealth distribution", however their solution is probably drastically different than yours. I actually agree with you for once! I kid, I do sometimes on other occasions :p If I were to hazard a guess a lot of people would love a better distribution, but for them. Pensioners in the UK love the pension triple lock that safeguards them against economic shocks, it doesn’t mean many don’t consistently vote for tickets that say theyre going to cut welfare/benefits for other groups Then there’s the mechanisms. My personal position is capitalism gonna capitalism, especially in a culture that broadly buys in wholesale. However, I imagine many respondents wanna keep it, just with the rough edges filed off. Considering the first anti-organizing part is completely asinine and nonsensical, and you didn't mention it specifically, I have to believe you ignored it so you could say you agreed with the rest of Razyda's post. As for the reality that people vote against their own interests because they have been propagandized to believe that's their best/only choice, that is part of what organizing is meant to address. As for racists and bigots being selfishly motivated, that's what got us "The New Deal", which iirc is the biggest accomplishment Democrats can claim. Republican voters want a far more equitable wealth distribution than the US has but they have no idea how to make it happen, same goes for Democrat voters (neither realize how bad it actually is). What is clear is that voting for them isn't going to get it, and it's only getting worse until it finally breaks. Without organization at the community level, it'll be a chaotic mess where those that are still holding wealth and power will reconsolidate under a new (likely worse) regime. This all isn't unrelated to the description lightspectra just provided about both parties' fixation on Europe as a model or warning sign depending on the topic/country.
It’s all fanciful bollocks tbh, projecting that the US is ripe for genuine left wing politics based on one poll is about as sensible as predicting that OnlyFans users will become models of chastity
You don’t seem to actually live on this planet, or if you do you certainly don’t understand it very well
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Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On May 28 2026 07:26 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2026 05:09 Razyda wrote:On May 28 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:
When it comes to human and worker rights, EU is the "shining city on the hill" and Xi, Putin and Trump hate it because it's a horrible contrast to what they are doing to people at home. They dont hate it, they hold it in contempt, and not because of the reasons you mentioned, but because Europe is essentially non factor and yet it keep acting all high and mighty. Right-wing ideology: The EU boasts of the gentler and kinder liberal society, all the while the US is subsidizing their defense budgets through NATO, and thus their welfare state by extension. All the while, they’ve exchanged core freedoms and justice for the promise of safety and security. Their domestic policy is flawed. They are overly dependent on Russian energy. They should be regarded as on a diverging path from the US and subject to less partnership. The more stringent right-wingers will use europoor and caretaker governments of tourist destinations. (I take it that Europeans, for their part, also think America is backwards or uncultured.
That right wing ideological take is utterly fucking stupid though, it’s beyond asinine. It’s not even worth entertaining
European states choose to enact welfare states of various forms. That’s all there is to it
The US has more than enough fucking money to do it and doesn’t, where there’s a will there’s a way
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On May 28 2026 07:26 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2026 05:09 Razyda wrote:On May 28 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:
When it comes to human and worker rights, EU is the "shining city on the hill" and Xi, Putin and Trump hate it because it's a horrible contrast to what they are doing to people at home. They dont hate it, they hold it in contempt, and not because of the reasons you mentioned, but because Europe is essentially non factor and yet it keep acting all high and mighty. Right-wing ideology: The EU boasts of the gentler and kinder liberal society, all the while the US is subsidizing their defense budgets through NATO, and thus their welfare state by extension. All the while, they’ve exchanged core freedoms and justice for the promise of safety and security. Their domestic policy is flawed. They are overly dependent on Russian energy. They should be regarded as on a diverging path from the US and subject to less partnership. The more stringent right-wingers will use europoor and caretaker governments of tourist destinations. (I take it that Europeans, for their part, also think America is backwards or uncultured.
Don't forget mass migration.
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On May 28 2026 09:19 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2026 02:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2026 00:08 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2026 08:16 Razyda wrote:On May 26 2026 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 23 2026 00:51 Dan HH wrote:On May 22 2026 23:05 WombaT wrote:
Has anyone tried to model this, or similarly radical tax reform policies on a facsimile of a big modern economy?
I’m sure it’s fabulously complicated and would require a hefty chunk of computing power, but curious if any of you have encountered anything in this domain + Show Spoiler +We're far off from being able to properly simulate something so behaviorally complex, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to have a new economic system that entirely relies on the very same metric (total transaction value) it torpedoes. The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah. I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being. You putting cart in front of the horse, once critical threshold is reached people will organise just fine. Organising before would be actually detrimental to your cause. On May 26 2026 07:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 26 2026 07:15 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2026 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 23 2026 00:51 Dan HH wrote:On May 22 2026 23:05 WombaT wrote:
Has anyone tried to model this, or similarly radical tax reform policies on a facsimile of a big modern economy?
I’m sure it’s fabulously complicated and would require a hefty chunk of computing power, but curious if any of you have encountered anything in this domain + Show Spoiler +We're far off from being able to properly simulate something so behaviorally complex, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to have a new economic system that entirely relies on the very same metric (total transaction value) it torpedoes. The main issue with fixing inequality / the tax burden on regular people is the lack of will and urgency, rather than a lack of potential solutions that are better and more predictable than flat tax and inshallah. I believe it is increasingly becoming a lack of functional organization. I believe the number of people with the will and that are feeling the urgency is reaching a critical mass, but I also believe organizing is a critical factor in where that threshold ends up being. What are you basing that belief on? A variety of factors. Including but not limited to: A far more equitable wealth distribution already has ~90%+ support in the US. My own anecdotal political organizing experiences. There's plenty of urgency and will, but most people I encounter feel like what they are lacking is a clear organization they can join with meaningful ways they can actualize their goals/ideals/etc. Various economic indicators show increasing numbers of people are reaching breaking points and being forced to make tough decisions they never expected to have to make. History. Organizing smaller groups of already mostly like-minded people to take direct action in order to seize and use various types of power/leverage in order to force the status quo that is maintained by everyone else to change is how pretty much all the good stuff has been accomplished in the US. I think you make rather wild assumption here. This 90% may support more equitable wealth distribution, but that doesnt mean their solution is the same, so it is rather hard to organise them. I mean, there may be KKK members or neo nazis supporting "A far more equitable wealth distribution", however their solution is probably drastically different than yours. I actually agree with you for once! I kid, I do sometimes on other occasions :p If I were to hazard a guess a lot of people would love a better distribution, but for them. Pensioners in the UK love the pension triple lock that safeguards them against economic shocks, it doesn’t mean many don’t consistently vote for tickets that say theyre going to cut welfare/benefits for other groups Then there’s the mechanisms. My personal position is capitalism gonna capitalism, especially in a culture that broadly buys in wholesale. However, I imagine many respondents wanna keep it, just with the rough edges filed off. Considering the first anti-organizing part is completely asinine and nonsensical, and you didn't mention it specifically, I have to believe you ignored it so you could say you agreed with the rest of Razyda's post. As for the reality that people vote against their own interests because they have been propagandized to believe that's their best/only choice, that is part of what organizing is meant to address. As for racists and bigots being selfishly motivated, that's what got us "The New Deal", which iirc is the biggest accomplishment Democrats can claim. Republican voters want a far more equitable wealth distribution than the US has but they have no idea how to make it happen, same goes for Democrat voters (neither realize how bad it actually is). What is clear is that voting for them isn't going to get it, and it's only getting worse until it finally breaks. Without organization at the community level, it'll be a chaotic mess where those that are still holding wealth and power will reconsolidate under a new (likely worse) regime. This all isn't unrelated to the description lightspectra just provided about both parties' fixation on Europe as a model or warning sign depending on the topic/country. It’s all fanciful bollocks tbh, projecting that the US is ripe for genuine left wing politics based on one poll is about as sensible as predicting that OnlyFans users will become models of chastity You don’t seem to actually live on this planet, or if you do you certainly don’t understand it very well
Your assertion that I'm "projecting that the US is ripe for genuine left wing politics based on one poll" is certainly "fanciful bollocks".
FWIW wanting a far more equitable society than the US currently is isn't unique to party, time, or even country.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5233831
https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/asap.12397
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287000663_American's_desire_for_less_wealth_inequality_does_not_depend_on_how_you_ask_them
It's quite literally an issue of organizing the people that want it (~90%+ of the country) around an actual way to do it despite the other ~10%'s best efforts to stop them. Which includes but is not limited to:
Amplifying our disagreements and idiocies among and against each other.
The ratchet effect.
Nihilism/hopelessness/"pragmatism"
Bread and Circus
etc...
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