EPTI don't see how it relates to the new deal particularly.
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
I don't see how it relates to the new deal particularly. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 01 2018 10:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: FDR sought a third term because the Fall of France scared the fuck out of everyone and the Democrats didn’t think anyone else could win. And even with that popularity, he still only got 55% of the popular vote. FDR won because he was charismatic, people trusted him and his policies supported working class American. Don’t discount those first two.How did you get that I believed that FDR died due to the New Deal? He rode his New Deal policies for 8 years. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On August 01 2018 10:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: How did you get that I believed that FDR died due to the New Deal? He rode his New Deal policies for 8 years. I'm guessing Plansix meant that "FDR remained in office for that long because of WW2". | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 01 2018 11:24 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: FDR was so popular that after he died Republicans passed term limits, had he not died and lived he could have easily seen the presidency till at least the early 50's. FDR's polices were what kept getting him elected, yet here in 2018 we have the same party running from positions far less "radical" than what saved this country from tearing itself apart during the depression. Holy shit, can we not abuse American history this badly? They amended this constitution because 2 terms is enough. That takes two thirds of the House and senate. It was popular too, because Americans were uncomfortable with breaking the two term tradition. Even democrats were uncomfortable with with someone holding office for that long. The two things Americans of all parties dislike is single party rule and presidents serving more than two terms. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On August 01 2018 09:22 Simberto wrote: The problem with accepting that kind of money is twofold: A) Money is addicting. If you have the money now, you will want to have it in the future, too. You might even tell yourself that it doesn't influence you. But at some point you will think "If i do a), i will no longer get that money, better do b) instead. B) Even if you somehow dodge A, the impression that is still that of you being a corrupt person. People will speculate about what you give them money people in return. Which is bad for you, and undermines the trust in a democratic system, which is also bad. ah right money is addicting but not righteous homegrown power. its pretty easy to change the impression. what if koch gave money to a true socialist just to spite trump? does the socialist now appear to be a closet koch libertarian? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 01 2018 11:30 Aquanim wrote: I'm guessing Plansix meant that "FDR remained in office for that long because of WW2". The fall of France was a super power falling like a house of cards. There is no touchstone to use as and example for what that would be like if it happened today. France just ceased to exist as a nation. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On August 01 2018 11:40 Plansix wrote: The fall of France was a super power falling like a house of cards. There is no touchstone to use as and example for what that would be like if it happened today. France just ceased to exist as a nation. The government of my country was looking pretty shaky around the turn of the millennium; 9/11 and one or two local events (not terrorist attacks, other stuff) gave them gas for two more terms. Not quite as dramatic as the fall of France, and the effect wasn't as large either, but the general principle holds. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23459 Posts
On August 01 2018 10:48 Nebuchad wrote: I wish articles stopped pretending that Third Way is thinking strategically about this and just happens to think that the best strategy is to do x. Third Way wants to do x, and then does everything it can to manipulate reality so that it looks like x is the right thing to do (see this article where they go in Wisconsin to figure out what Americans want and magically deduce that they want the policies of Third Way even though they've heard the opposite during the whole trip). All this stuff like "moderates are warning that ignoring them will lead the party to disaster in the midterm elections and the 2020 presidential contest." "And they worry the angry left will cost Democrats a rare chance to win over those kind of voters, including Republicans who no longer want to be part of Trump's GOP"... No that's bullshit, you're just voicing disagreement and pretending that it's about strategy when it's about policy. What's funny is statistic and metric after metric shows they are dead wrong about this but it didn't stop them in 2016 and it wont stop them in 2018 or 2020 and they'll still be blaming us because we don't want a coalition with Bill Kristol and Henry Kissinger. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
Prosecution is releasing evidence from the Manafort trail on a per-day basis. Most of this will be financial fraud (Manafort's 2nd trial will deal with conspiracy with a Russian agent, set for later this year), so not too politically interesting yet. But, one interesting thing from today. In 2014, working for Ukraine's Pro-Russia movement, this was the primary talking-point: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/j96ZOWT.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/v45BtOc.jpg) "Make Ukraine Work Again". Sounds so familiar... edit: also worth noting a lot of this, such as the images I posted, is actually from Tad Devine. Who, in this e-mail, was communicating with Konstantin Kilimnik, Putin's main guy in Ukraine. This is actually also very interesting. Put all this in context. The campaign manager running against Hillary Clinton in the primary -- Tad Devine. Then in the general, she was running against Trump's campaign manager -- Paul Manafort. Both of them having previously just worked, together, in a Putin-led endeavor in Ukraine. I wonder how hard Tad Devine was pushing Bernie, and what his true motives were with the Bernie campaign. Was he just using Bernie to pick away at Hillary? Without condemning or suspecting Bernie in any way, one has to admit there is a possibility he was being used. I mean, his campaign manager just happens to be this one guy Manafort was working with in Ukraine -- which by the way, was a right-wing campaign, not at all reflective of Bernie Sanders. "Small world". | ||
KwarK
United States43210 Posts
On August 01 2018 11:40 Plansix wrote: The fall of France was a super power falling like a house of cards. There is no touchstone to use as and example for what that would be like if it happened today. France just ceased to exist as a nation. Buddy, you need to reread your WW2 history. This was not the dissolution of the HRE, it was a rerun of 1870 with extra occupation. The shocking historical events you’re describing didn’t happen. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On August 01 2018 10:19 Plansix wrote: It appears several other unregistered foreign agents have been referred to other District attorneys offices for prosecution of necessary. It will be interesting to see where this goes next. But the drum beat of collusion is not a crime makes me think someone has talked and the Trump team knows it. I need Mueller to indict Tony podesta. What in the world would Trump tweet??? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23459 Posts
On August 01 2018 14:30 KwarK wrote: Buddy, you need to reread your WW2 history. This was not the dissolution of the HRE, it was a rerun of 1870 with extra occupation. The shocking historical events you’re describing didn’t happen. Pretty sure he learned all he needed to know about WW2 in 10th grade US schools. Surely they couldn't have led him astray? | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On August 01 2018 14:30 KwarK wrote: Buddy, you need to reread your WW2 history. This was not the dissolution of the HRE, it was a rerun of 1870 with extra occupation. The shocking historical events you’re describing didn’t happen. As far as I can tell you're missing Plansix's point. What is it you are saying did not happen? In some technical sense the claim that "France ceased to exist as a nation" is hyperbole but, I mean... are you claiming that what did happen to France did not shock the world? | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On August 01 2018 14:30 KwarK wrote: Buddy, you need to reread your WW2 history. This was not the dissolution of the HRE, it was a rerun of 1870 with extra occupation. The shocking historical events you’re describing didn’t happen. It was and it was not. Prussians left France after a few weeks in 1870 and France transitionned from a corrupt dictatorial empire to a sovereign republic, minus alsace. The whole thing was Bismark trying to find a way to unite Germany and Napoleon III being, as usual, a complete tool. Nazi germany occupied half of France for five years in 1940, destroyed the Republic (that ironically they had helped to create 70 years before) and installed a fascist puppet government under military control in the other half before annexing it too because total war. The whole thing was a world war of annexation and world domination. How the f... is that a rerun, except for the part where France collapsed and the germans entered Paris? Plansix is correct and your parallel is only relevant in the narrowest way (narrow like, ignoring the context and all consequences). France, which was a superpower, did in effect ceased to exist as a sovereign nation in 1940 and the event shocked the whole world. I don’t want to speculate on the effects it had on FDR reelection but i struggle to see what you are trying to say. On August 01 2018 14:48 GreenHorizons wrote: Pretty sure he learned all he needed to know about WW2 in 10th grade US schools. Surely they couldn't have led him astray? I don’t think you have ever displayed anything that approached the level of historical knowledge required to be so unsufferably condescending, buddy. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On August 01 2018 11:24 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: FDR was so popular that after he died Republicans passed term limits, had he not died and lived he could have easily seen the presidency till at least the early 50's. FDR's polices were what kept getting him elected, yet here in 2018 we have the same party running from positions far less "radical" than what saved this country from tearing itself apart during the depression. term limits weren't just passed by republicans, they were passed by democrats too. the republicans alone did not have the votes to pass them. and they were passed because it had been a norm for a very very long time, and nobody bothered to codify it into a formal rule until somebody broke the norm. waiting until someone breaks it to fix it is fairly common in politics sadly. FDR's reelection could've been more about the man himself doing well, plus favorable circumstances, rather than the policies (though those helped some). What basis do you have for claiming the country would've torn itself apart otherwise? sure depressions are terrible, but they do end in time one way or the other anyways, it's only a question of how bad and how long. Also, the great depression is what ALLOWED the radical policies to be implemented. When people feel things are very bad, they're far more willing to accept radical solutions than they otherwise would be. I think you overestimate how well the progressive policies would go over in this country right now. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14047 Posts
I can see people surprised but another nation falling shouldn't have shocked anyone. FDR stayed in office beacuse of ww2 not some quasi socialist policy that republicans can now take credit for beacuse they switched sides. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 01 2018 21:58 Sermokala wrote: France wasn't really a superpower in an age of so many other powers that surpassed them. Nothing about france was really exceptional and it was still recovering from a large section of its nation being reduced to wasteland. I can see people surprised but another nation falling shouldn't have shocked anyone. FDR stayed in office beacuse of ww2 not some quasi socialist policy that republicans can now take credit for beacuse they switched sides. Yes, in hindsight the fall of France was not that surprising. But for the average US citizen in a pre-internet, pre-television era, the complete collapse of long standing world power was a shock. Especially coupled with Great Depression and its aftermath. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
This may have something to do with evidence intended to be presented at day 2 of the Manafort trial | ||
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