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On October 17 2025 03:37 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 03:24 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:21 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:19 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:12 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 01:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 01:17 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 00:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it. "covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism "Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats) "dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable "celebrating murder" = ??? "idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats "riots" = you mean like January 6th? "attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo? "government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats I would take issue with your thoughts on all of those but that last one is just embarrassing subjugation of reason to partisanship. If I hadn't been reading your posts for years I would think it was just dishonesty. Almost all Republicans in both houses voted for the CR, it's just not possible to be mostly their fault. It's not the 2010s anymore, blindly assigning blame to the GOP makes no sense. Idk why this of all things in the last weeks bothers me but it's just obviously *absurd* I guess. Edit: without dems filibustering it, it would have passed. It just can't be the GOPs fault, ppl claiming it is should just lean into it like some dems are instead of this rediculous and embarrassing pretense The Republicans - who have control of all branches of government - decided to shut down the government because they got caught removing healthcare from Americans. Or, as Razyda would put it, they're behaving "like a bunch of spoiled brats". Did you forget the filibuster or do you need it explained to you? The CR passed the House and got more than GOP senators. The second half of that sentence is wrong too. The increased subsidies expire at the end of the year, per a law Democrats passed during COVID. It's their expiration date, it isn't happening right now, and it doesn't have anything to do with keeping the government open. Your argument doesn't even follow logically. Somehow them "getting caught" caused them to shut down the govenment??? As an aside this is why I laugh at accusations of "bad faith" by posters here. The people making such an accusation are either acting without the slightest bit of good faith themselves or are so deep into the mire that they can't see the sun anymore. Complete long shot but have they tried passing a budget that doesn't result in millions of Americans losing their healthcare? The fact that this is the best you can muster means you should probably just bite the bullet and say that "Republicans wanting to make healthcare more expensive for millions is a good reason to shut down the government 3 months before subsidies expire" then try to blame them instead. Indeed, some dems have said that. But I get the problem, dems have spent years, nay, decades, saying government shutdowns are awful events that cause so much pain for eveyone that it's hard to reconcile that with what they are doing now. But it literally is a good reason. Ok? Then maybe we can both agree that the statement "Republicans shut down the government" is false? I think it is more complicated than that. You can presumably imagine something that would be a complete dealbreaker for the Republicans were the Democrats to insist upon it. This is like that, but substitute the parties.
But the CR they voted against doesn't say anything either way about the issue they supposedly filibustering it for. At least in the Obama years many (not all) of the shutdowns were about the actual levels of government funding and debt. What happened here is, Dems knew their image was in the tank even with Dems, so they picked a fight on what they think is their strongest ground and are hoping for the best. Appropriations happen evey year at the same time, it makes no sense to start making random demands, vote no on cloture, and then blame your opponents for not doing what you want. People are trying to have it both ways here. Dems are being heroic and also it's not their doing. As oBlade said, it's hard to see how you square this circle. Republicans aren't "taking" anything away, and yet that's how it's being framed. Just own it I say. "Yes, we democrats believe shutting down the government is a terrible thing. But we care so much about subsidies that it's worth it! We fight!"
On October 17 2025 03:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 01:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 01:17 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 00:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it. "covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism "Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats) "dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable "celebrating murder" = ??? "idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats "riots" = you mean like January 6th? "attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo? "government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats I would take issue with your thoughts on all of those but that last one is just embarrassing subjugation of reason to partisanship. If I hadn't been reading your posts for years I would think it was just dishonesty. Almost all Republicans in both houses voted for the CR, it's just not possible to be mostly their fault. It's not the 2010s anymore, blindly assigning blame to the GOP makes no sense. Idk why this of all things in the last weeks bothers me but it's just obviously *absurd* I guess. Edit: without dems filibustering it, it would have passed. It just can't be the GOPs fault, ppl claiming it is should just lean into it like some dems are instead of this rediculous and embarrassing pretense The Republicans - who have control of all branches of government - decided to shut down the government because they got caught removing healthcare from Americans. Or, as Razyda would put it, they're behaving "like a bunch of spoiled brats". Did you forget the filibuster or do you need it explained to you? The CR passed the House and got more than GOP senators. The second half of that sentence is wrong too. The increased subsidies expire at the end of the year, per a law Democrats passed during COVID. It's their expiration date, it isn't happening right now, and it doesn't have anything to do with keeping the government open. Your argument doesn't even follow logically. Somehow them "getting caught" caused them to shut down the govenment??? As an aside this is why I laugh at accusations of "bad faith" by posters here. The people making such an accusation are either acting without the slightest bit of good faith themselves or are so deep into the mire that they can't see the sun anymore. I didn't forget about the filibuster. Democrats are not in the wrong here; Republicans are. Just because Republicans overwhelmingly voted for something terrible doesn't mean Democrats are the bad guys for not allowing it to pass. Republicans have been pushing and pushing forever, and finally Democrats have started to slightly resist. Congressional Democrats have been cowards for years, as Republicans pull whatever strings they need to do to win over and over again. Do you realize just how absurdly detrimental this bill needed to be for even Congressional Democrats to say "okay this is too much, even for me"!? Republicans are the reason the government is shut down, because they pushed too far. They overplayed their hand, for once. Dial it back even a small amount, and the Democrats would resume their usual "yes you can steamroll us".
Maybe reading oBlade's post has helped, but Republicans didn't vote "for" anything. The subsidies expire at the end of the year, and dems set the date. The CR they voted against says absolutely nothing about subsidies eithe way. You seem to think Republicans voted to revoke something and Democrats are stopping that. But that's not what is happening.
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On October 17 2025 06:28 Hat Trick of Today wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 06:07 Sermokala wrote:On October 17 2025 05:55 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
Can someone explain why the US would even want to bail out Argentina to a sum of $20 billion and potentially provide a backstop to an additional $20 billion?
If I got my timeline right, the US is promising to hand over the billions if Milei’s government wins the election. But Argentina needs money now so they’ve basically pared back export tariffs on soy so multinationals who control most of the supply chain are incentivised to export more soy.
So the current situation is that China is getting cheap soy at the detriment of local Argentinian farmers (since multinationals are the ones exporting) and American farmers who have expensive soy that China doesn’t need.
Is this $20 billion (and maybe +$20 billion more) there in hopes that Argentina is going to reverse course and so in a roundabout way save American farmers by indirectly intervening in another country’s economic policy? But Milei wants to do this so why wouldn’t he just keep policy the same and just take the $20 billion to continue exporting soy to China while American farmers still eat shit. The order of operations is that argentina needed $20 billion to stablize its currency, it got it then removed tariffs beacuse its currency was stable, china came in and bought soybeans to replace the american farmers who had that market before. Now beacuse of that chinese purchase their currency is unstable again and turmp needs to throw $20 billion more into the hole or the first 20 is wasted. But the election hasn’t happened so has the US handed the first $20 billion over yet? They’re being coy about the actual reasoning but I’m fairly sure they’re holding the funds until Milei wins. As far as I know, people don’t trust the Argentinian government so the peso still sucks compared to the dollar. Is the goal the dollarisation of Argentina of all places? Of course I can just stop thinking and just assume grift and theft because of course these guys would do that.
What? You can't just say that you're buying pesos and just not do that. You can track that very easily, even if it wasn't its the perception of the $20Billion that the market reacts to.
Yes the idealized goal would be to dollarize Argentina, but the trump admin can't negotiate for shit so they waste money on stupid shit like buying pesos. Argentina could double their GDP with the kinds of natural resources and human capital that they have with a stable currency.
The grift is that hes bailing out the hedge funds like blackrock who are buying into argentina hopeing to cash in when/if they do dollarize. if the currency collapses and they dollarize off of the collapse things are much much worse for the common people.
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On October 17 2025 07:54 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 03:37 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:24 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:21 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:19 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:12 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 01:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 01:17 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 00:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
"covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism
"Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats)
"dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable
"celebrating murder" = ???
"idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats
"riots" = you mean like January 6th?
"attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo?
"government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats I would take issue with your thoughts on all of those but that last one is just embarrassing subjugation of reason to partisanship. If I hadn't been reading your posts for years I would think it was just dishonesty. Almost all Republicans in both houses voted for the CR, it's just not possible to be mostly their fault. It's not the 2010s anymore, blindly assigning blame to the GOP makes no sense. Idk why this of all things in the last weeks bothers me but it's just obviously *absurd* I guess. Edit: without dems filibustering it, it would have passed. It just can't be the GOPs fault, ppl claiming it is should just lean into it like some dems are instead of this rediculous and embarrassing pretense The Republicans - who have control of all branches of government - decided to shut down the government because they got caught removing healthcare from Americans. Or, as Razyda would put it, they're behaving "like a bunch of spoiled brats". Did you forget the filibuster or do you need it explained to you? The CR passed the House and got more than GOP senators. The second half of that sentence is wrong too. The increased subsidies expire at the end of the year, per a law Democrats passed during COVID. It's their expiration date, it isn't happening right now, and it doesn't have anything to do with keeping the government open. Your argument doesn't even follow logically. Somehow them "getting caught" caused them to shut down the govenment??? As an aside this is why I laugh at accusations of "bad faith" by posters here. The people making such an accusation are either acting without the slightest bit of good faith themselves or are so deep into the mire that they can't see the sun anymore. Complete long shot but have they tried passing a budget that doesn't result in millions of Americans losing their healthcare? The fact that this is the best you can muster means you should probably just bite the bullet and say that "Republicans wanting to make healthcare more expensive for millions is a good reason to shut down the government 3 months before subsidies expire" then try to blame them instead. Indeed, some dems have said that. But I get the problem, dems have spent years, nay, decades, saying government shutdowns are awful events that cause so much pain for eveyone that it's hard to reconcile that with what they are doing now. But it literally is a good reason. Ok? Then maybe we can both agree that the statement "Republicans shut down the government" is false? I think it is more complicated than that. You can presumably imagine something that would be a complete dealbreaker for the Republicans were the Democrats to insist upon it. This is like that, but substitute the parties. But the CR they voted against doesn't say anything either way about the issue they supposedly filibustering it for. At least in the Obama years many (not all) of the shutdowns were about the actual levels of government funding and debt. What happened here is, Dems knew their image was in the tank even with Dems, so they picked a fight on what they think is their strongest ground and are hoping for the best. Appropriations happen evey year at the same time, it makes no sense to start making random demands, vote no on cloture, and then blame your opponents for not doing what you want. People are trying to have it both ways here. Dems are being heroic and also it's not their doing. As oBlade said, it's hard to see how you square this circle. Republicans aren't "taking" anything away, and yet that's how it's being framed. Just own it I say. "Yes, we democrats believe shutting down the government is a terrible thing. But we care so much about subsidies that it's worth it! We fight!" Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 03:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 01:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 01:17 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 00:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it. "covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism "Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats) "dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable "celebrating murder" = ??? "idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats "riots" = you mean like January 6th? "attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo? "government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats I would take issue with your thoughts on all of those but that last one is just embarrassing subjugation of reason to partisanship. If I hadn't been reading your posts for years I would think it was just dishonesty. Almost all Republicans in both houses voted for the CR, it's just not possible to be mostly their fault. It's not the 2010s anymore, blindly assigning blame to the GOP makes no sense. Idk why this of all things in the last weeks bothers me but it's just obviously *absurd* I guess. Edit: without dems filibustering it, it would have passed. It just can't be the GOPs fault, ppl claiming it is should just lean into it like some dems are instead of this rediculous and embarrassing pretense The Republicans - who have control of all branches of government - decided to shut down the government because they got caught removing healthcare from Americans. Or, as Razyda would put it, they're behaving "like a bunch of spoiled brats". Did you forget the filibuster or do you need it explained to you? The CR passed the House and got more than GOP senators. The second half of that sentence is wrong too. The increased subsidies expire at the end of the year, per a law Democrats passed during COVID. It's their expiration date, it isn't happening right now, and it doesn't have anything to do with keeping the government open. Your argument doesn't even follow logically. Somehow them "getting caught" caused them to shut down the govenment??? As an aside this is why I laugh at accusations of "bad faith" by posters here. The people making such an accusation are either acting without the slightest bit of good faith themselves or are so deep into the mire that they can't see the sun anymore. I didn't forget about the filibuster. Democrats are not in the wrong here; Republicans are. Just because Republicans overwhelmingly voted for something terrible doesn't mean Democrats are the bad guys for not allowing it to pass. Republicans have been pushing and pushing forever, and finally Democrats have started to slightly resist. Congressional Democrats have been cowards for years, as Republicans pull whatever strings they need to do to win over and over again. Do you realize just how absurdly detrimental this bill needed to be for even Congressional Democrats to say "okay this is too much, even for me"!? Republicans are the reason the government is shut down, because they pushed too far. They overplayed their hand, for once. Dial it back even a small amount, and the Democrats would resume their usual "yes you can steamroll us". Maybe reading oBlade's post has helped, but Republicans didn't vote "for" anything. The subsidies expire at the end of the year, and dems set the date. The CR they voted against says absolutely nothing about subsidies eithe way. You seem to think Republicans voted to revoke something and Democrats are stopping that. But that's not what is happening.
The subsidies need to eventually be renewed. They can't just pass a funding bill that makes them last for all eternity. Not renewing them is a huge problem, and Republicans are the ones who don't want to renew them. You seem to be trying to make the semantics argument that what the Republicans are doing is fine because they're passively letting things die, as opposed to actively killing them, but the result is the same: millions of Americans will be screwed:
"Democrats say they won't budge until they get a guarantee on extending subsidies for health plans offered under Affordable Care Act marketplaces. They warned that millions of Americans who buy their own health insurance — such as small business owners, farmers and contractors — will see large increases when premium prices go out in the coming weeks. ... When they controlled Congress during the pandemic, Democrats boosted subsidies for Affordable Care Act health plans. It pushed enrollment under President Barack Obama's signature health care law to new levels and drove the rate of uninsured people to a historic low. Nearly 24 million people currently get their health insurance from subsidized marketplaces, according to health care research nonprofit KFF." https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/senate-democrats-to-reject-government-funding-bill-for-10th-time/4002787/
And the Democrats are correct that millions of Americans are going to be screwed because Republicans are unwilling to include the extension:
"States are worried Congress missed its opportunity to extend enhanced ACA subsidies and lower premiums before consumers start picking plans in a few weeks. Time is quickly running out to shield Obamacare customers from explosive sticker shock. State insurance officials are warning that the longer Congress waits to extend enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies, which help low- and middle-income people afford premiums, the more difficult it will be to update rates before consumers start shopping for 2026 coverage on Nov. 1. As a result, they said, some enrollees — particularly young and healthy people — could be frightened off by the higher rates and drop coverage, even if the rates can be adjusted later. This would further undermine Obamacare by worsening the risk pool, driving up ACA costs even more. The dire warnings come as no deal on the subsidies is in sight, stretching the government shutdown into a third week." https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/16/its-too-late-to-extend-aca-subsidies-without-major-disruptions-some-states-and-lawmakers-say-00612001
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Adressed better while I was making this post
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I'm not sure how I missed this because it was apparently in August. But Trump somehow manages to surprise me with how dumb he is. How do people think he is smart when he has worse math skills than an elementary student?
This is a real quote.
Trump said " We have something coming up, favored nations, where I'm going to be reducing drig prices by 1400 to 1500%. Were gonna be reducing drug prices down to a level that nobody - not by 20%, 30%- by like 1,000%. Because, you know, we're paying sometimes 10 times more than other nations, and were not doing it anymore." " We have something else called 'favored nations, where I'm going to be reducing drug prices by 1000% - by 900, 600, 500, 1,200."
Being this dumb should be disqualifying from running a country. Or look forward to all the really sick people in the US to get really really rich!
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On October 17 2025 00:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it. "covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism "Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats) "dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable "celebrating murder" = ??? "idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats "riots" = you mean like January 6th? "attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo? "government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats
"covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism
No, it was massive attack on civil liberties, shutdown of any discussion and strongarming population.
"Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats)
Laptop story was hushed just before election it plain and simply was election interference, I seem to recall that you believe Trump hush money case was election interference? Let me put it simply - if you can agree with latter but not former, then you are either lying, brainwashed, or dont know what interference is.
"dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable
I surely hope you will stand by that, in cases like Comey, Letitia James and any more likely to come.
"celebrating murder" = ???
It is Kirk case. You seem to not understand that representation works both ways, Democrat party represent its voters, but also voters represent Democratic party.
"idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats
Just... please. Trump rally = nazi rally, Kirk vigil = nazi rally, list goes on and I havent heard single conservative reffering to those as nazi.
"riots" = you mean like January 6th?
Yes exactly. What happened to Trump approval after those? Do you think Trump response to current ones, should be equivalent to the response Biden had for January 6 rioters?
"attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo?
Are you republican? just couple lines above you were claiming that nazi rhetoric is republican thing?
No I mean like those:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/08/texas-ice-agents-ambush
"Ten charged with attempted murder after allegedly ambushing Texas Ice agents"
or those
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/grand-jury-marimar-martinez-shot-by-federal-agents-brighton-park-chicago/
"A grand jury has indicted a woman shot by federal agents in Chicago's Brighton Park neighborhood after allegedly ramming agents carrying out immigration operations last weekend."
Not to mention the guy who tried to terrorize ice agents and with usual liberal efficacy killed the very people he tried to protect.
"government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats
Republicans cant pass continuing resolution without Dems. Dems didnt got what they want so they threw a fit, took their toys, and went home, very on brand.
I'll tell you now - if Democrats continue down that road they will loose midterms.
On October 17 2025 03:35 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it.
No centre person get behind this kind of stuff and fact that democrats behave like a bunch of spoiled brats doesnt help. Wait, Democratic politicians are trying to make ICE agents hard?
Thank you for pointing it out. It should be:
democrats politicians going out of their way to make work of said federal agents harder.
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On October 17 2025 08:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 07:54 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:37 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:24 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:21 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:19 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:12 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 01:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 01:17 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
I would take issue with your thoughts on all of those but that last one is just embarrassing subjugation of reason to partisanship. If I hadn't been reading your posts for years I would think it was just dishonesty. Almost all Republicans in both houses voted for the CR, it's just not possible to be mostly their fault. It's not the 2010s anymore, blindly assigning blame to the GOP makes no sense. Idk why this of all things in the last weeks bothers me but it's just obviously *absurd* I guess.
Edit: without dems filibustering it, it would have passed. It just can't be the GOPs fault, ppl claiming it is should just lean into it like some dems are instead of this rediculous and embarrassing pretense The Republicans - who have control of all branches of government - decided to shut down the government because they got caught removing healthcare from Americans. Or, as Razyda would put it, they're behaving "like a bunch of spoiled brats". Did you forget the filibuster or do you need it explained to you? The CR passed the House and got more than GOP senators. The second half of that sentence is wrong too. The increased subsidies expire at the end of the year, per a law Democrats passed during COVID. It's their expiration date, it isn't happening right now, and it doesn't have anything to do with keeping the government open. Your argument doesn't even follow logically. Somehow them "getting caught" caused them to shut down the govenment??? As an aside this is why I laugh at accusations of "bad faith" by posters here. The people making such an accusation are either acting without the slightest bit of good faith themselves or are so deep into the mire that they can't see the sun anymore. Complete long shot but have they tried passing a budget that doesn't result in millions of Americans losing their healthcare? The fact that this is the best you can muster means you should probably just bite the bullet and say that "Republicans wanting to make healthcare more expensive for millions is a good reason to shut down the government 3 months before subsidies expire" then try to blame them instead. Indeed, some dems have said that. But I get the problem, dems have spent years, nay, decades, saying government shutdowns are awful events that cause so much pain for eveyone that it's hard to reconcile that with what they are doing now. But it literally is a good reason. Ok? Then maybe we can both agree that the statement "Republicans shut down the government" is false? I think it is more complicated than that. You can presumably imagine something that would be a complete dealbreaker for the Republicans were the Democrats to insist upon it. This is like that, but substitute the parties. But the CR they voted against doesn't say anything either way about the issue they supposedly filibustering it for. At least in the Obama years many (not all) of the shutdowns were about the actual levels of government funding and debt. What happened here is, Dems knew their image was in the tank even with Dems, so they picked a fight on what they think is their strongest ground and are hoping for the best. Appropriations happen evey year at the same time, it makes no sense to start making random demands, vote no on cloture, and then blame your opponents for not doing what you want. People are trying to have it both ways here. Dems are being heroic and also it's not their doing. As oBlade said, it's hard to see how you square this circle. Republicans aren't "taking" anything away, and yet that's how it's being framed. Just own it I say. "Yes, we democrats believe shutting down the government is a terrible thing. But we care so much about subsidies that it's worth it! We fight!" On October 17 2025 03:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 01:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 01:17 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 00:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it. "covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism "Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats) "dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable "celebrating murder" = ??? "idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats "riots" = you mean like January 6th? "attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo? "government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats I would take issue with your thoughts on all of those but that last one is just embarrassing subjugation of reason to partisanship. If I hadn't been reading your posts for years I would think it was just dishonesty. Almost all Republicans in both houses voted for the CR, it's just not possible to be mostly their fault. It's not the 2010s anymore, blindly assigning blame to the GOP makes no sense. Idk why this of all things in the last weeks bothers me but it's just obviously *absurd* I guess. Edit: without dems filibustering it, it would have passed. It just can't be the GOPs fault, ppl claiming it is should just lean into it like some dems are instead of this rediculous and embarrassing pretense The Republicans - who have control of all branches of government - decided to shut down the government because they got caught removing healthcare from Americans. Or, as Razyda would put it, they're behaving "like a bunch of spoiled brats". Did you forget the filibuster or do you need it explained to you? The CR passed the House and got more than GOP senators. The second half of that sentence is wrong too. The increased subsidies expire at the end of the year, per a law Democrats passed during COVID. It's their expiration date, it isn't happening right now, and it doesn't have anything to do with keeping the government open. Your argument doesn't even follow logically. Somehow them "getting caught" caused them to shut down the govenment??? As an aside this is why I laugh at accusations of "bad faith" by posters here. The people making such an accusation are either acting without the slightest bit of good faith themselves or are so deep into the mire that they can't see the sun anymore. I didn't forget about the filibuster. Democrats are not in the wrong here; Republicans are. Just because Republicans overwhelmingly voted for something terrible doesn't mean Democrats are the bad guys for not allowing it to pass. Republicans have been pushing and pushing forever, and finally Democrats have started to slightly resist. Congressional Democrats have been cowards for years, as Republicans pull whatever strings they need to do to win over and over again. Do you realize just how absurdly detrimental this bill needed to be for even Congressional Democrats to say "okay this is too much, even for me"!? Republicans are the reason the government is shut down, because they pushed too far. They overplayed their hand, for once. Dial it back even a small amount, and the Democrats would resume their usual "yes you can steamroll us". Maybe reading oBlade's post has helped, but Republicans didn't vote "for" anything. The subsidies expire at the end of the year, and dems set the date. The CR they voted against says absolutely nothing about subsidies eithe way. You seem to think Republicans voted to revoke something and Democrats are stopping that. But that's not what is happening. The subsidies need to eventually be renewed. They can't just pass a funding bill that makes them last for all eternity. Not renewing them is a huge problem, and Republicans are the ones who don't want to renew them. You seem to be trying to make the semantics argument that what the Republicans are doing is fine because they're passively letting things die, as opposed to actively killing them, but the result is the same: millions of Americans will be screwed: "Democrats say they won't budge until they get a guarantee on extending subsidies for health plans offered under Affordable Care Act marketplaces. They warned that millions of Americans who buy their own health insurance — such as small business owners, farmers and contractors — will see large increases when premium prices go out in the coming weeks. ... When they controlled Congress during the pandemic, Democrats boosted subsidies for Affordable Care Act health plans. It pushed enrollment under President Barack Obama's signature health care law to new levels and drove the rate of uninsured people to a historic low. Nearly 24 million people currently get their health insurance from subsidized marketplaces, according to health care research nonprofit KFF." https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/senate-democrats-to-reject-government-funding-bill-for-10th-time/4002787/ And the Democrats are correct that millions of Americans are going to be screwed because Republicans are unwilling to include the extension: "States are worried Congress missed its opportunity to extend enhanced ACA subsidies and lower premiums before consumers start picking plans in a few weeks. Time is quickly running out to shield Obamacare customers from explosive sticker shock. State insurance officials are warning that the longer Congress waits to extend enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies, which help low- and middle-income people afford premiums, the more difficult it will be to update rates before consumers start shopping for 2026 coverage on Nov. 1. As a result, they said, some enrollees — particularly young and healthy people — could be frightened off by the higher rates and drop coverage, even if the rates can be adjusted later. This would further undermine Obamacare by worsening the risk pool, driving up ACA costs even more. The dire warnings come as no deal on the subsidies is in sight, stretching the government shutdown into a third week." https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/16/its-too-late-to-extend-aca-subsidies-without-major-disruptions-some-states-and-lawmakers-say-00612001
Wow, that sounds like something Democrats should shut down the government for! Too bad they can't though, since Republicans already did. For some reason. Apparently.
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On October 17 2025 08:28 Billyboy wrote:I'm not sure how I missed this because it was apparently in August. But Trump somehow manages to surprise me with how dumb he is. How do people think he is smart when he has worse math skills than an elementary student? This is a real quote. Show nested quote +Trump said " We have something coming up, favored nations, where I'm going to be reducing drig prices by 1400 to 1500%. Were gonna be reducing drug prices down to a level that nobody - not by 20%, 30%- by like 1,000%. Because, you know, we're paying sometimes 10 times more than other nations, and were not doing it anymore." " We have something else called 'favored nations, where I'm going to be reducing drug prices by 1000% - by 900, 600, 500, 1,200." Being this dumb should be disqualifying from running a country. Or look forward to all the really sick people in the US to get really really rich!
It would be pretty funny if Trump was right - if drug companies started paying consumers to acquire their medicine lol. Medication isn't just free, but you also receive hundreds of dollars alongside that medication, instead of you needing to pay anything for them!
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On October 17 2025 08:39 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 08:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 07:54 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:37 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:24 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:21 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:19 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 03:12 KwarK wrote:On October 17 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 01:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
The Republicans - who have control of all branches of government - decided to shut down the government because they got caught removing healthcare from Americans. Or, as Razyda would put it, they're behaving "like a bunch of spoiled brats". Did you forget the filibuster or do you need it explained to you? The CR passed the House and got more than GOP senators. The second half of that sentence is wrong too. The increased subsidies expire at the end of the year, per a law Democrats passed during COVID. It's their expiration date, it isn't happening right now, and it doesn't have anything to do with keeping the government open. Your argument doesn't even follow logically. Somehow them "getting caught" caused them to shut down the govenment??? As an aside this is why I laugh at accusations of "bad faith" by posters here. The people making such an accusation are either acting without the slightest bit of good faith themselves or are so deep into the mire that they can't see the sun anymore. Complete long shot but have they tried passing a budget that doesn't result in millions of Americans losing their healthcare? The fact that this is the best you can muster means you should probably just bite the bullet and say that "Republicans wanting to make healthcare more expensive for millions is a good reason to shut down the government 3 months before subsidies expire" then try to blame them instead. Indeed, some dems have said that. But I get the problem, dems have spent years, nay, decades, saying government shutdowns are awful events that cause so much pain for eveyone that it's hard to reconcile that with what they are doing now. But it literally is a good reason. Ok? Then maybe we can both agree that the statement "Republicans shut down the government" is false? I think it is more complicated than that. You can presumably imagine something that would be a complete dealbreaker for the Republicans were the Democrats to insist upon it. This is like that, but substitute the parties. But the CR they voted against doesn't say anything either way about the issue they supposedly filibustering it for. At least in the Obama years many (not all) of the shutdowns were about the actual levels of government funding and debt. What happened here is, Dems knew their image was in the tank even with Dems, so they picked a fight on what they think is their strongest ground and are hoping for the best. Appropriations happen evey year at the same time, it makes no sense to start making random demands, vote no on cloture, and then blame your opponents for not doing what you want. People are trying to have it both ways here. Dems are being heroic and also it's not their doing. As oBlade said, it's hard to see how you square this circle. Republicans aren't "taking" anything away, and yet that's how it's being framed. Just own it I say. "Yes, we democrats believe shutting down the government is a terrible thing. But we care so much about subsidies that it's worth it! We fight!" On October 17 2025 03:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 01:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 01:17 Introvert wrote:On October 17 2025 00:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it. "covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism "Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats) "dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable "celebrating murder" = ??? "idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats "riots" = you mean like January 6th? "attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo? "government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats I would take issue with your thoughts on all of those but that last one is just embarrassing subjugation of reason to partisanship. If I hadn't been reading your posts for years I would think it was just dishonesty. Almost all Republicans in both houses voted for the CR, it's just not possible to be mostly their fault. It's not the 2010s anymore, blindly assigning blame to the GOP makes no sense. Idk why this of all things in the last weeks bothers me but it's just obviously *absurd* I guess. Edit: without dems filibustering it, it would have passed. It just can't be the GOPs fault, ppl claiming it is should just lean into it like some dems are instead of this rediculous and embarrassing pretense The Republicans - who have control of all branches of government - decided to shut down the government because they got caught removing healthcare from Americans. Or, as Razyda would put it, they're behaving "like a bunch of spoiled brats". Did you forget the filibuster or do you need it explained to you? The CR passed the House and got more than GOP senators. The second half of that sentence is wrong too. The increased subsidies expire at the end of the year, per a law Democrats passed during COVID. It's their expiration date, it isn't happening right now, and it doesn't have anything to do with keeping the government open. Your argument doesn't even follow logically. Somehow them "getting caught" caused them to shut down the govenment??? As an aside this is why I laugh at accusations of "bad faith" by posters here. The people making such an accusation are either acting without the slightest bit of good faith themselves or are so deep into the mire that they can't see the sun anymore. I didn't forget about the filibuster. Democrats are not in the wrong here; Republicans are. Just because Republicans overwhelmingly voted for something terrible doesn't mean Democrats are the bad guys for not allowing it to pass. Republicans have been pushing and pushing forever, and finally Democrats have started to slightly resist. Congressional Democrats have been cowards for years, as Republicans pull whatever strings they need to do to win over and over again. Do you realize just how absurdly detrimental this bill needed to be for even Congressional Democrats to say "okay this is too much, even for me"!? Republicans are the reason the government is shut down, because they pushed too far. They overplayed their hand, for once. Dial it back even a small amount, and the Democrats would resume their usual "yes you can steamroll us". Maybe reading oBlade's post has helped, but Republicans didn't vote "for" anything. The subsidies expire at the end of the year, and dems set the date. The CR they voted against says absolutely nothing about subsidies eithe way. You seem to think Republicans voted to revoke something and Democrats are stopping that. But that's not what is happening. The subsidies need to eventually be renewed. They can't just pass a funding bill that makes them last for all eternity. Not renewing them is a huge problem, and Republicans are the ones who don't want to renew them. You seem to be trying to make the semantics argument that what the Republicans are doing is fine because they're passively letting things die, as opposed to actively killing them, but the result is the same: millions of Americans will be screwed: "Democrats say they won't budge until they get a guarantee on extending subsidies for health plans offered under Affordable Care Act marketplaces. They warned that millions of Americans who buy their own health insurance — such as small business owners, farmers and contractors — will see large increases when premium prices go out in the coming weeks. ... When they controlled Congress during the pandemic, Democrats boosted subsidies for Affordable Care Act health plans. It pushed enrollment under President Barack Obama's signature health care law to new levels and drove the rate of uninsured people to a historic low. Nearly 24 million people currently get their health insurance from subsidized marketplaces, according to health care research nonprofit KFF." https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/senate-democrats-to-reject-government-funding-bill-for-10th-time/4002787/ And the Democrats are correct that millions of Americans are going to be screwed because Republicans are unwilling to include the extension: "States are worried Congress missed its opportunity to extend enhanced ACA subsidies and lower premiums before consumers start picking plans in a few weeks. Time is quickly running out to shield Obamacare customers from explosive sticker shock. State insurance officials are warning that the longer Congress waits to extend enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies, which help low- and middle-income people afford premiums, the more difficult it will be to update rates before consumers start shopping for 2026 coverage on Nov. 1. As a result, they said, some enrollees — particularly young and healthy people — could be frightened off by the higher rates and drop coverage, even if the rates can be adjusted later. This would further undermine Obamacare by worsening the risk pool, driving up ACA costs even more. The dire warnings come as no deal on the subsidies is in sight, stretching the government shutdown into a third week." https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/16/its-too-late-to-extend-aca-subsidies-without-major-disruptions-some-states-and-lawmakers-say-00612001 Wow, that sounds like something Democrats should shut down the government for! Too bad they can't though, since Republicans already did. For some reason. Apparently.
Since you didn't respond to the fact that Republicans are the ones destroying the lives of millions of Americans, I'm happy to ask a tangential question: What is your position on renewing the subsidies? Do you believe they should be extended? Why or why not?
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Huge NYC mayoral general debate tonight:
"The Democratic nominee, Zohran Mamdani, is leading polls by double digits. Immediately behind him is Andrew Cuomo, the former governor who’s running as an independent after losing the Democratic primary in stunning fashion. Curtis Sliwa, the Republican nominee, will be on the stage as well. He’s polling behind the two Democrats in the deep blue metropolis."
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/16/nyc-mayoral-debate-questions-00610716
"Three contenders for New York City’s top job—Andrew Cuomo, Zohran Mamdani, and Curtis Sliwa—are facing off in the first general election debate of the 2025 mayoral race. The event is airing live from NBC’s 30 Rockefeller Center studios.
What to Know:
Major candidates: Andrew Cuomo (independent), Zohran Mamdani (Democrat), Curtis Sliwa (Republican)
First general election debate of the 2025 NYC mayoral race
Hosted by NBC 4 New York, Telemundo 47, and Politico New York
No live audience; broadcast from NBC’s Midtown Manhattan studio
Airs live at 7 p.m. ET on WNBC-TV and streaming platforms
The second and final New York City mayoral debate will take place on October 22.
Early voting begins Saturday, October 25, with Election Day set for Tuesday, November 4."
https://www.newsweek.com/nyc-mayor-debate-mamdani-cuomo-sliwa-live-updates-10891413
It's super scummy that Cuomo is running as an independent, which could theoretically be a spoiler candidate for the Democratic nominee, Mamdani.
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On October 17 2025 08:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 08:28 Billyboy wrote:I'm not sure how I missed this because it was apparently in August. But Trump somehow manages to surprise me with how dumb he is. How do people think he is smart when he has worse math skills than an elementary student? This is a real quote. Trump said " We have something coming up, favored nations, where I'm going to be reducing drig prices by 1400 to 1500%. Were gonna be reducing drug prices down to a level that nobody - not by 20%, 30%- by like 1,000%. Because, you know, we're paying sometimes 10 times more than other nations, and were not doing it anymore." " We have something else called 'favored nations, where I'm going to be reducing drug prices by 1000% - by 900, 600, 500, 1,200." Being this dumb should be disqualifying from running a country. Or look forward to all the really sick people in the US to get really really rich! It would be pretty funny if Trump was right - if drug companies started paying consumers to acquire their medicine lol. Medication isn't just free, but you also receive hundreds of dollars alongside that medication, instead of you needing to pay anything for them!
Bonkers that a guy who would fail grade 3 math is negotiating trade deals and running your economy. All the intelligent Republican's that are happy to support Trump because he brings them the dumb vote are going to be in the same mess as the rest of us at some point here. #winning
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On October 17 2025 08:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Huge NYC mayoral general debate tonight: "The Democratic nominee, Zohran Mamdani, is leading polls by double digits. Immediately behind him is Andrew Cuomo, the former governor who’s running as an independent after losing the Democratic primary in stunning fashion. Curtis Sliwa, the Republican nominee, will be on the stage as well. He’s polling behind the two Democrats in the deep blue metropolis." https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/16/nyc-mayoral-debate-questions-00610716 "Three contenders for New York City’s top job—Andrew Cuomo, Zohran Mamdani, and Curtis Sliwa—are facing off in the first general election debate of the 2025 mayoral race. The event is airing live from NBC’s 30 Rockefeller Center studios. What to Know: Major candidates: Andrew Cuomo (independent), Zohran Mamdani (Democrat), Curtis Sliwa (Republican) First general election debate of the 2025 NYC mayoral race Hosted by NBC 4 New York, Telemundo 47, and Politico New York No live audience; broadcast from NBC’s Midtown Manhattan studio Airs live at 7 p.m. ET on WNBC-TV and streaming platforms The second and final New York City mayoral debate will take place on October 22. Early voting begins Saturday, October 25, with Election Day set for Tuesday, November 4." https://www.newsweek.com/nyc-mayor-debate-mamdani-cuomo-sliwa-live-updates-10891413 It's super scummy that Cuomo is running as an independent, which could theoretically be a spoiler candidate for the Democratic nominee, Mamdani.
Cuomo will likely only take the vote of the Dems that would have voted for a Rep over Mamdani. I think it might actually help Zohran.
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On October 17 2025 08:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
It's super scummy that Cuomo is running as an independent, which could theoretically be a spoiler candidate for the Democratic nominee, Mamdani.
There's a precedent for that from New York's second-most populous city, and Cuomo is probably taking a page from the 2021 Buffalo mayoral election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Buffalo_mayoral_election
Piece of shit Byron Brown lost to Bernie sis India Walton in the Democratic primary, only for him to come back like a cockroach as an "Independent" write-in candidate (taking Republican donations btw), and beating her in the general election just based on name recognition alone. Fuck that guy.
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United States43978 Posts
Razyda has a point about Obama’s lockdowns and how the Democrats took freedoms and destroyed civil liberties.
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I don't get why you guys believe that the dems are needed to keep the government open. Republicans have already overruled the filibuster this term they can do it again. If they want Democratic votes they need to negotiate with the democrats for that, they don't own the privilege of their votes just because they demand them.
If the republicans want to keep government shut down until midterms it'll be a bold argument that they should still hold power over all three branches of government.
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On October 17 2025 09:07 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 08:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Huge NYC mayoral general debate tonight: "The Democratic nominee, Zohran Mamdani, is leading polls by double digits. Immediately behind him is Andrew Cuomo, the former governor who’s running as an independent after losing the Democratic primary in stunning fashion. Curtis Sliwa, the Republican nominee, will be on the stage as well. He’s polling behind the two Democrats in the deep blue metropolis." https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/16/nyc-mayoral-debate-questions-00610716 "Three contenders for New York City’s top job—Andrew Cuomo, Zohran Mamdani, and Curtis Sliwa—are facing off in the first general election debate of the 2025 mayoral race. The event is airing live from NBC’s 30 Rockefeller Center studios. What to Know: Major candidates: Andrew Cuomo (independent), Zohran Mamdani (Democrat), Curtis Sliwa (Republican) First general election debate of the 2025 NYC mayoral race Hosted by NBC 4 New York, Telemundo 47, and Politico New York No live audience; broadcast from NBC’s Midtown Manhattan studio Airs live at 7 p.m. ET on WNBC-TV and streaming platforms The second and final New York City mayoral debate will take place on October 22. Early voting begins Saturday, October 25, with Election Day set for Tuesday, November 4." https://www.newsweek.com/nyc-mayor-debate-mamdani-cuomo-sliwa-live-updates-10891413 It's super scummy that Cuomo is running as an independent, which could theoretically be a spoiler candidate for the Democratic nominee, Mamdani. Cuomo will likely only take the vote of the Dems that would have voted for a Rep over Mamdani. I think it might actually help Zohran.
I'm not in NY, so I'm irrelevant, but I almost definitely would not have voted for Mamdani in the primary. Would have done more research if I lived there, but likely would have voted for one of the other candidates and may have even put Cuomo over Mamdani. However, after what Cuomo has done post primary, he's politically dead to me and I hope he gets about 0% of the vote and never runs for office again. I'm probably about the type of person Cuomo hopes to get votes from... I was even willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the sex pest accusations as it mostly sounded like he gave hugs to women who thought it was awkward. No benefit of the doubt for him any more.
Would 100% vote for Mamdani now even though I'm against some of his ideas.
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United States24772 Posts
He was the brilliant mastermind for shutting down Indian Point Nuclear Powerpoint at a time when States need to increase their portfolio of non-fossil fuel energy. Dead to me even before seeing his post-primary behavior, but I don't vote in New York anymore so that doesn't really matter.
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Republicans controlling both halves of Congress and the Presidency and blaming the Democrats for the shutdown seems very odd. How exactly does that work? Why would anyone buy that excuse?
Why is it the responsibility of the Democrats to vote for the Republican's shitty bill? The Republicans did not negotiate at all with the Democrats, so they get 0 Democrat support. They wrote their own bill based on Trump's desires and then demanded the Democrats vote for it. No, that's not how negotiations work and if the Republicans can't understand that, then they shouldn't be in charge of anything. This shutdown is 100% on them.
Having said that, they could continue to totally ignore the Democrats and just get rid of the filibuster or change it to giving Senators time to talk on the floor as originally intended. It should never have been a permanent block that requires 60 votes to overcome, merely a time for everyone to have their say. I'm totally okay with that and think the filibuster should go back to its original intention. Then the Democrats can actually pass some legislation when they get back in power with slim margins.
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On October 17 2025 11:56 micronesia wrote:
He was the brilliant mastermind for shutting down Indian Point Nuclear Powerpoint at a time when States need to increase their portfolio of non-fossil fuel energy. Dead to me even before seeing his post-primary behavior, but I don't vote in New York anymore so that doesn't really matter.
It is really werid. I think I saw that they reopened three mile island for AI purposes. Minnesota is going to start its battery capacity buildout next year but everyone is going to be raided for AI center energy.
We need to mandate that the Data centers have a battery capacity in order to lessen their damage to communities energy costs.
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On October 17 2025 08:36 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 00:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it. "covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism "Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats) "dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountable "celebrating murder" = ??? "idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the Democrats "riots" = you mean like January 6th? "attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo? "government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than Democrats "covid" = exacerbated by Republicans through their anti-vax rhetoric and disease denialism No, it was massive attack on civil liberties, shutdown of any discussion and strongarming population. "Hunter laptop" = an irrelevant issue that Republicans were hyperfocused on (not Democrats) Laptop story was hushed just before election it plain and simply was election interference, I seem to recall that you believe Trump hush money case was election interference? Let me put it simply - if you can agree with latter but not former, then you are either lying, brainwashed, or dont know what interference is. "dragging Trump through courts" = he committed dozens of felonies and should be held accountableI surely hope you will stand by that, in cases like Comey, Letitia James and any more likely to come. "celebrating murder" = ???It is Kirk case. You seem to not understand that representation works both ways, Democrat party represent its voters, but also voters represent Democratic party. "idiotic nazi rhetoric" = that's the Republicans, not the DemocratsJust... please. Trump rally = nazi rally, Kirk vigil = nazi rally, list goes on and I havent heard single conservative reffering to those as nazi. "riots" = you mean like January 6th?Yes exactly. What happened to Trump approval after those? Do you think Trump response to current ones, should be equivalent to the response Biden had for January 6 rioters? "attacks on federal agents" = you mean like Portland residents dancing in front of the ICE gestapo?Are you republican? just couple lines above you were claiming that nazi rhetoric is republican thing? No I mean like those: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/08/texas-ice-agents-ambush"Ten charged with attempted murder after allegedly ambushing Texas Ice agents" or those https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/grand-jury-marimar-martinez-shot-by-federal-agents-brighton-park-chicago/"A grand jury has indicted a woman shot by federal agents in Chicago's Brighton Park neighborhood after allegedly ramming agents carrying out immigration operations last weekend." Not to mention the guy who tried to terrorize ice agents and with usual liberal efficacy killed the very people he tried to protect. "government shutdown" = Republicans are more to blame for this than DemocratsRepublicans cant pass continuing resolution without Dems. Dems didnt got what they want so they threw a fit, took their toys, and went home, very on brand. I'll tell you now - if Democrats continue down that road they will loose midterms. Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 03:35 Jankisa wrote:On October 17 2025 00:29 Razyda wrote:
I do agree that democrats only chance is to appeal to centrist. Thing is current iteration of democratic party lost them.
Covid, Hunter laptop, dragging Trump through courts entire election, celebrating murder, idiotic nazi rhetoric. On top of that they keep going, riots, attacks on federal agents (which are, whether you like it or not, officers of the law) and on top of that democrats politicians going out of their way to make said federal agents harder. Add government shutdown to it.
No centre person get behind this kind of stuff and fact that democrats behave like a bunch of spoiled brats doesnt help. Wait, Democratic politicians are trying to make ICE agents hard? Thank you for pointing it out. It should be: democrats politicians going out of their way to make work of said federal agents harder.
Re: Civil Liberty - You do not have the right to make other people sick.
Re: Hunter vs. Trump - Only one of them ran for president.
Re: Felonies - Anyone who commits a felony should be held accountable.
Re: Kirk - Obligatory reminder that almost all political violence comes from the right.
Re: Nazi Rhetoric/Actions - Republicans were just caught (again) making pro-Nazi statements.
Re: Riots - Nothing comes even remotely close to Trump's January 6th insurrection attempt.
Re: More Nazis, I Guess - Calling out a Nazi is not the same thing as being a Nazi.
Re: Government Shutdown - Republican leaders should care about millions of Americans' healthcare.
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EPT
