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On October 10 2025 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is pretty basic stuff. But, I'll outline it here any way. The problems with a fiat money system are
#1. They can create new money at any time. This devalues the current money supply and hits savers the hardest. (b). as stated here earlier by another poster.... every dollar created corresponds to a liability somewhere in the system. and (iii): large institutions can behave recklessly knowing they'll be bailed out. In 2008 and 2020, trillions were printed to stabilize financial markets. the wealthy saw huge gains and wealth inequality skyrocketed.
The average american got totally fucked over in 2008 and 2020.
On October 10 2025 01:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 10 2025 00:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On October 10 2025 00:50 Sadist wrote: Gold is just as arbitrary as paper.
no, gold has objective value as a universal metal that can do 83759378 different things. Gold is not as arbitrary as paper.
There is no such thing as a material having objective value. Value is subjective, by definition.
no, gold has many uses. that gives it value.
it is used in the making of cars. it is an anti inflammatory. it is very useful in a plethora of medical devices , ortho implants.
Gold is amazing.
They didn’t get fucked by Fiat currency though did they? That wasn’t the problem in those epochs
He's talking about the expansion of the money supply in response to the CDO crash/COVID virus. Obviously the main problem with COVID was the virus but he's saying that in addition to all the dying the average American got fucked by the expanded money supply.
It's not really an argument though. I could equally argue that the existence of bad drivers makes the case for not having any hands on the steering wheel at all. The potential mismanagement of the money supply is not an argument for refusing to manage the money supply at all, it is an argument for better management.
The argument is that mismanagement is inevitable. That's a valid argument. It's one of the reasons for an independent central bank. The incentive for politicians is to lower rates to boost short term growth at the cost of inflation. The gold standard does not fix the mismanagement though. History is full of inflationary and deflationary periods without fiat currency.
On October 10 2025 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is pretty basic stuff. But, I'll outline it here any way. The problems with a fiat money system are
#1. They can create new money at any time. This devalues the current money supply and hits savers the hardest. (b). as stated here earlier by another poster.... every dollar created corresponds to a liability somewhere in the system. and (iii): large institutions can behave recklessly knowing they'll be bailed out. In 2008 and 2020, trillions were printed to stabilize financial markets. the wealthy saw huge gains and wealth inequality skyrocketed.
The average american got totally fucked over in 2008 and 2020.
On October 10 2025 01:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 10 2025 00:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On October 10 2025 00:50 Sadist wrote: Gold is just as arbitrary as paper.
no, gold has objective value as a universal metal that can do 83759378 different things. Gold is not as arbitrary as paper.
There is no such thing as a material having objective value. Value is subjective, by definition.
no, gold has many uses. that gives it value.
it is used in the making of cars. it is an anti inflammatory. it is very useful in a plethora of medical devices , ortho implants.
Gold is amazing.
They didn’t get fucked by Fiat currency though did they? That wasn’t the problem in those epochs
He's talking about the expansion of the money supply in response to the CDO crash/COVID virus. Obviously the main problem with COVID was the virus but he's saying that in addition to all the dying the average American got fucked by the expanded money supply.
It's not really an argument though. I could equally argue that the existence of bad drivers makes the case for not having any hands of the steering wheel at all. The potential mismanagement of the money supply is not an argument for refusing to manage the money supply at all, it is an argument for better management.
Ok but I had a good time hanging around with Italian Americans and being an honorary guido in the 1980s, have you thought about that?
The element I don’t really understand is critics of fiat currency, are almost invariably big proponents of capitalism
I’ve long found that a bit incongruous, if anything I’d expect it to be more of a left position, or at least more likely to be
With the current monetary system you're putting the government in control of the money supply. Less government involvement into the economy and money supply is consistent. The gold standard is just the wrong way to achieve that. A standard rule like Friedman's k-plus rule or free banking would make more sense.
On October 10 2025 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is pretty basic stuff. But, I'll outline it here any way. The problems with a fiat money system are
#1. They can create new money at any time. This devalues the current money supply and hits savers the hardest. (b). as stated here earlier by another poster.... every dollar created corresponds to a liability somewhere in the system. and (iii): large institutions can behave recklessly knowing they'll be bailed out. In 2008 and 2020, trillions were printed to stabilize financial markets. the wealthy saw huge gains and wealth inequality skyrocketed.
The average american got totally fucked over in 2008 and 2020.
On October 10 2025 01:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 10 2025 00:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On October 10 2025 00:50 Sadist wrote: Gold is just as arbitrary as paper.
no, gold has objective value as a universal metal that can do 83759378 different things. Gold is not as arbitrary as paper.
There is no such thing as a material having objective value. Value is subjective, by definition.
no, gold has many uses. that gives it value.
it is used in the making of cars. it is an anti inflammatory. it is very useful in a plethora of medical devices , ortho implants.
Gold is amazing.
They didn’t get fucked by Fiat currency though did they? That wasn’t the problem in those epochs
He's talking about the expansion of the money supply in response to the CDO crash/COVID virus. Obviously the main problem with COVID was the virus but he's saying that in addition to all the dying the average American got fucked by the expanded money supply.
It's not really an argument though. I could equally argue that the existence of bad drivers makes the case for not having any hands on the steering wheel at all. The potential mismanagement of the money supply is not an argument for refusing to manage the money supply at all, it is an argument for better management.
The argument is that mismanagement is inevitable. That's a valid argument. It's one of the reasons for an independent central bank. The incentive for politicians is to lower rates to boost short term growth at the cost of inflation. The gold standard does not fix the mismanagement though. History is full of inflationary and deflationary periods without fiat currency.
On October 10 2025 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is pretty basic stuff. But, I'll outline it here any way. The problems with a fiat money system are
#1. They can create new money at any time. This devalues the current money supply and hits savers the hardest. (b). as stated here earlier by another poster.... every dollar created corresponds to a liability somewhere in the system. and (iii): large institutions can behave recklessly knowing they'll be bailed out. In 2008 and 2020, trillions were printed to stabilize financial markets. the wealthy saw huge gains and wealth inequality skyrocketed.
The average american got totally fucked over in 2008 and 2020.
On October 10 2025 01:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 10 2025 00:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On October 10 2025 00:50 Sadist wrote: Gold is just as arbitrary as paper.
no, gold has objective value as a universal metal that can do 83759378 different things. Gold is not as arbitrary as paper.
There is no such thing as a material having objective value. Value is subjective, by definition.
no, gold has many uses. that gives it value.
it is used in the making of cars. it is an anti inflammatory. it is very useful in a plethora of medical devices , ortho implants.
Gold is amazing.
They didn’t get fucked by Fiat currency though did they? That wasn’t the problem in those epochs
He's talking about the expansion of the money supply in response to the CDO crash/COVID virus. Obviously the main problem with COVID was the virus but he's saying that in addition to all the dying the average American got fucked by the expanded money supply.
It's not really an argument though. I could equally argue that the existence of bad drivers makes the case for not having any hands of the steering wheel at all. The potential mismanagement of the money supply is not an argument for refusing to manage the money supply at all, it is an argument for better management.
Ok but I had a good time hanging around with Italian Americans and being an honorary guido in the 1980s, have you thought about that?
The element I don’t really understand is critics of fiat currency, are almost invariably big proponents of capitalism
I’ve long found that a bit incongruous, if anything I’d expect it to be more of a left position, or at least more likely to be
With the current monetary system you're putting the government in control of the money supply. Less government involvement into the economy and money supply is consistent. The gold standard is just the wrong way to achieve that. A standard rule like Friedman's k-plus rule or free banking would make more sense.
Interesting, would like to learn more of yourself or if other posters wanna chip in.
Not really my area of particular expertise, I’ve only ever really encountered anti-fiat points, basically exclusively being packaged with a return to the gold standard, or something similar.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of her's got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of hers got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
Is this surprising to you?
This is the program, this is the direction of travel. It’s been blatantly signposted.
I will give you credit as a fellow human being who sees such things as unjust, you’re obviously not an uncaring monster. But this hasn’t come from nowhere, people were warning you this exact kind of thing would happen.
On October 10 2025 23:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
This has not been my experience. The certainty of getting paid didn't happen until after the 2019 shutdown, when it was codified into law as a guarantee. We all generally expected the law ending each shutdown would include a statement to pay everyone for the missed days of pay, whether furloughed or essential.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of hers got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
The administration is terrorizing federal employees by breeding uncertainty, even in cases where the law is clear. It's true that taking leave, or even taking Monday off for the federal holiday, is increasing risk of the administration trying to get positions eliminated, but I don't expect that to stand up once the dust settles. Many of the administration's previous illegal firings from earlier this year were overturned.
On October 10 2025 23:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: A co-worker of hers got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
The administration is terrorizing federal employees by breeding uncertainty, even in cases where the law is clear. It's true that taking leave, or even taking Monday off for the federal holiday, is increasing risk of the administration trying to get positions eliminated, but I don't expect that to stand up once the dust settles. Many of the administration's previous illegal firings from earlier this year were overturned.
you are probably right. however, in the past there was far more certainty than "you are probably right". someone in her office thinks she might not get paid and no one is stepping up and saying "that's BS, you will get paid".
On October 10 2025 23:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
This has not been my experience. The certainty of getting paid didn't happen until after the 2019 shutdown, when it was codified into law as a guarantee. We all generally expected the law ending each shutdown would include a statement to pay everyone for the missed days of pay, whether furloughed or essential.
my sister-in-law was chillin like a villian during the 2019 shutdown and she was absolutely certain she was getting paid. she is deemed "essential". I distinctly remember it. She worked through it like nothing was going on.
On October 10 2025 23:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: this is just nasty man... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyld9qqgv8o my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown. She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown. A co-worker of hers got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
Is this surprising to you? This is the program, this is the direction of travel. It’s been blatantly signposted. I will give you credit as a fellow human being who sees such things as unjust, you’re obviously not an uncaring monster. But this hasn’t come from nowhere, people were warning you this exact kind of thing would happen.
this didn't happen during the last shutdown that occurred during a Trump presidency. I don't work for the US Navy so I'm not tuned in enough to make a projection. i didn't think much about it. i just figured it'd be similar to 2019.. . and IT AIN'T.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of her's got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
That's terrible news.
Trump is partially in charge of the federal government, and Trump notoriously doesn't pay his employees. Congressional Republicans are also partially in charge of the federal government, and they notoriously don't care about paying Americans a living wage.
It shouldn't be a surprise that none of those people are fighting to make sure that workers get paid properly.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of her's got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
That's terrible news.
Trump is partially in charge of the federal government, and Trump notoriously doesn't pay his employees. Congressional Republicans are also partially in charge of the federal government, and they notoriously don't care about paying Americans a living wage.
It shouldn't be a surprise that none of those people are fighting to make sure that workers get paid properly.
tellin' ya dawg... my sister-in-law was born and raised in the USA in a Republican family. She played softball//baseball of the University of Virginia. By the end of this thing she might end up about as patriotic as I am. My patriotism level is 0.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of her's got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
That's terrible news.
Trump is partially in charge of the federal government, and Trump notoriously doesn't pay his employees. Congressional Republicans are also partially in charge of the federal government, and they notoriously don't care about paying Americans a living wage.
It shouldn't be a surprise that none of those people are fighting to make sure that workers get paid properly.
tellin' ya dawg... my sister-in-law was born and raised in the USA in a Republican family. She played softball//baseball of the University of Virginia. By the end of this thing she might end up about as patriotic as I am. My patriotism level is 0.
I mean this is the entire problem with your worldview encapsulated in one post.
It’s a problem if my all-American softball playing sister in law is affected.
Or the Italian-Americans who gave me honorary guido status or whoever.
You didn’t, nor haven’t given a shit about anyone else affected, that people have warned you was coming.
one of the first things that came to my mind as Elon and Doge went on their misguided, Ketamine-fueled failure of an "anti government spree" was Maoist struggle sessions.
"we are the new cool kids in town on a revolution and FU and your "old ways" of doing things, we are burning this moving train down - because I won capitalism ergo I can do ANYTHING."
the interesting consequence might be that through their callousness and transparent ineptitude Americans might come to care and like their government more.
decades of anti-government crusade undone because they simply went too far and tried to make their campaign rhetoric a reality? I actually see a chance of that happening. when things get so lopsided and "the trains are not just unpunctual, but getting derailed and are on flames"... people inevitably take a closer look as to the how and why.
I don't think Republicans and billionaire donors will like what they might find.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of her's got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
That's terrible news.
Trump is partially in charge of the federal government, and Trump notoriously doesn't pay his employees. Congressional Republicans are also partially in charge of the federal government, and they notoriously don't care about paying Americans a living wage.
It shouldn't be a surprise that none of those people are fighting to make sure that workers get paid properly.
tellin' ya dawg... my sister-in-law was born and raised in the USA in a Republican family. She played softball//baseball of the University of Virginia. By the end of this thing she might end up about as patriotic as I am. My patriotism level is 0.
I mean this is the entire problem with your worldview encapsulated in one post. It’s a problem if my all-American softball playing sister in law is affected. Or the Italian-Americans who gave me honorary guido status or whoever. You didn’t, nor haven’t given a shit about anyone else affected, that people have warned you was coming. Fucking hell
Just because I believe in self responsibility doesn't mean I do not care about people. Self responsibility is the cornerstone of a happy, fulfilling life.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of her's got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
That's terrible news.
Trump is partially in charge of the federal government, and Trump notoriously doesn't pay his employees. Congressional Republicans are also partially in charge of the federal government, and they notoriously don't care about paying Americans a living wage.
It shouldn't be a surprise that none of those people are fighting to make sure that workers get paid properly.
tellin' ya dawg... my sister-in-law was born and raised in the USA in a Republican family. She played softball//baseball of the University of Virginia. By the end of this thing she might end up about as patriotic as I am. My patriotism level is 0.
I mean this is the entire problem with your worldview encapsulated in one post. It’s a problem if my all-American softball playing sister in law is affected. Or the Italian-Americans who gave me honorary guido status or whoever. You didn’t, nor haven’t given a shit about anyone else affected, that people have warned you was coming. Fucking hell
Just because I believe in self responsibility doesn't mean I do not care about people. Self responsibility is the cornerstone of a happy, fulfilling life.
Has your sister in law tried taking personal responsibility in this instance?
On October 10 2025 23:52 Doublemint wrote: the interesting consequence might be that through their callousness and transparent ineptitude Americans might come to care and like their government more.
decades of anti-government crusade undone because they simply went too far and tried to make their campaign rhetoric a reality? I actually see a chance of that happening. when things get so lopsided and "the trains are not just unpunctual, but getting derailed and are on flames"... people inevitably take a closer look as to the how and why.
I don't think Republicans and billionaire donors will like what they might find.
interesting times.
Republicans do lots of talking about reducing government. They never actually do it though. its great for getting votes.
During the BUsh era the # of government employees stayed the same with the composition of the federal work force changing. During the Reagan years the # of government employees went up slightly.
You can be against the concept of the government interfering in the economy and at the same time not hate every dentist that works for free at a state run clinic.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of her's got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
That's terrible news.
Trump is partially in charge of the federal government, and Trump notoriously doesn't pay his employees. Congressional Republicans are also partially in charge of the federal government, and they notoriously don't care about paying Americans a living wage.
It shouldn't be a surprise that none of those people are fighting to make sure that workers get paid properly.
tellin' ya dawg... my sister-in-law was born and raised in the USA in a Republican family. She played softball//baseball of the University of Virginia. By the end of this thing she might end up about as patriotic as I am. My patriotism level is 0.
I mean this is the entire problem with your worldview encapsulated in one post. It’s a problem if my all-American softball playing sister in law is affected. Or the Italian-Americans who gave me honorary guido status or whoever. You didn’t, nor haven’t given a shit about anyone else affected, that people have warned you was coming. Fucking hell
Just because I believe in self responsibility doesn't mean I do not care about people. Self responsibility is the cornerstone of a happy, fulfilling life.
Why was your sister in law not exercising self responsibility by not recognising what Trump was doing and getting another job?
This isn’t my view, I’m parroting yours back at you.
On October 10 2025 23:52 Doublemint wrote: the interesting consequence might be that through their callousness and transparent ineptitude Americans might come to care and like their government more.
decades of anti-government crusade undone because they simply went too far and tried to make their campaign rhetoric a reality? I actually see a chance of that happening. when things get so lopsided and "the trains are not just unpunctual, but getting derailed and are on flames"... people inevitably take a closer look as to the how and why.
I don't think Republicans and billionaire donors will like what they might find.
interesting times.
Republicans do lots of talking about reducing government. They never actually do it though. its great for getting votes.
During the BUsh era the # of government employees stayed the same with the composition of the federal work force changing. During the Reagan years the # of government employees went up slightly.
You can be against the concept of the government interfering in the economy and at the same time not hate every dentist that works for free at a state run clinic.
Yes Clinton was the last to successfully trim the federal workforce.
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of her's got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
That's terrible news.
Trump is partially in charge of the federal government, and Trump notoriously doesn't pay his employees. Congressional Republicans are also partially in charge of the federal government, and they notoriously don't care about paying Americans a living wage.
It shouldn't be a surprise that none of those people are fighting to make sure that workers get paid properly.
tellin' ya dawg... my sister-in-law was born and raised in the USA in a Republican family. She played softball//baseball of the University of Virginia. By the end of this thing she might end up about as patriotic as I am. My patriotism level is 0.
I mean this is the entire problem with your worldview encapsulated in one post. It’s a problem if my all-American softball playing sister in law is affected. Or the Italian-Americans who gave me honorary guido status or whoever. You didn’t, nor haven’t given a shit about anyone else affected, that people have warned you was coming. Fucking hell
Just because I believe in self responsibility doesn't mean I do not care about people. Self responsibility is the cornerstone of a happy, fulfilling life.
Why was your sister in law not exercising self responsibility by not recognising what Trump was doing and getting another job?
She anticipated some of these shenanigans and can get a job at the FDIC or as a day trader. She has enough savings to last 8 months so she'll be fine. She makes about 70% of her open market value right now. She is more self responsible than I am. She lived through a far more difficult childhood than I did. Its been a walk in the park for me.
EPT
