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On October 10 2025 02:28 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2025 02:20 WombaT wrote:On October 10 2025 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:This is pretty basic stuff. But, I'll outline it here any way. The problems with a fiat money system are #1. They can create new money at any time. This devalues the current money supply and hits savers the hardest. (b). as stated here earlier by another poster.... every dollar created corresponds to a liability somewhere in the system. and (iii): large institutions can behave recklessly knowing they'll be bailed out. In 2008 and 2020, trillions were printed to stabilize financial markets. the wealthy saw huge gains and wealth inequality skyrocketed. The average american got totally fucked over in 2008 and 2020. On October 10 2025 01:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 10 2025 00:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 10 2025 00:50 Sadist wrote:
Gold is just as arbitrary as paper.
no, gold has objective value as a universal metal that can do 83759378 different things. Gold is not as arbitrary as paper. There is no such thing as a material having objective value. Value is subjective, by definition. no, gold has many uses. that gives it value. it is used in the making of cars. it is an anti inflammatory. it is very useful in a plethora of medical devices , ortho implants. Gold is amazing. They didn’t get fucked by Fiat currency though did they? That wasn’t the problem in those epochs He's talking about the expansion of the money supply in response to the CDO crash/COVID virus. Obviously the main problem with COVID was the virus but he's saying that in addition to all the dying the average American got fucked by the expanded money supply. It's not really an argument though. I could equally argue that the existence of bad drivers makes the case for not having any hands on the steering wheel at all. The potential mismanagement of the money supply is not an argument for refusing to manage the money supply at all, it is an argument for better management.
The argument is that mismanagement is inevitable. That's a valid argument. It's one of the reasons for an independent central bank. The incentive for politicians is to lower rates to boost short term growth at the cost of inflation. The gold standard does not fix the mismanagement though. History is full of inflationary and deflationary periods without fiat currency.
On October 10 2025 02:50 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2025 02:28 KwarK wrote:On October 10 2025 02:20 WombaT wrote:On October 10 2025 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:This is pretty basic stuff. But, I'll outline it here any way. The problems with a fiat money system are #1. They can create new money at any time. This devalues the current money supply and hits savers the hardest. (b). as stated here earlier by another poster.... every dollar created corresponds to a liability somewhere in the system. and (iii): large institutions can behave recklessly knowing they'll be bailed out. In 2008 and 2020, trillions were printed to stabilize financial markets. the wealthy saw huge gains and wealth inequality skyrocketed. The average american got totally fucked over in 2008 and 2020. On October 10 2025 01:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 10 2025 00:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 10 2025 00:50 Sadist wrote:
Gold is just as arbitrary as paper.
no, gold has objective value as a universal metal that can do 83759378 different things. Gold is not as arbitrary as paper. There is no such thing as a material having objective value. Value is subjective, by definition. no, gold has many uses. that gives it value. it is used in the making of cars. it is an anti inflammatory. it is very useful in a plethora of medical devices , ortho implants. Gold is amazing. They didn’t get fucked by Fiat currency though did they? That wasn’t the problem in those epochs He's talking about the expansion of the money supply in response to the CDO crash/COVID virus. Obviously the main problem with COVID was the virus but he's saying that in addition to all the dying the average American got fucked by the expanded money supply. It's not really an argument though. I could equally argue that the existence of bad drivers makes the case for not having any hands of the steering wheel at all. The potential mismanagement of the money supply is not an argument for refusing to manage the money supply at all, it is an argument for better management. Ok but I had a good time hanging around with Italian Americans and being an honorary guido in the 1980s, have you thought about that? The element I don’t really understand is critics of fiat currency, are almost invariably big proponents of capitalism I’ve long found that a bit incongruous, if anything I’d expect it to be more of a left position, or at least more likely to be
With the current monetary system you're putting the government in control of the money supply. Less government involvement into the economy and money supply is consistent. The gold standard is just the wrong way to achieve that. A standard rule like Friedman's k-plus rule or free banking would make more sense.
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Inflation doesn't bother you if you are already rich, since you will make your money based on your now "more dollars worth" assets.
I want back markets and capitalism. The Wealth-Aristocracy is pissing me off.
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Northern Ireland25853 Posts
On October 10 2025 15:47 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2025 02:28 KwarK wrote:On October 10 2025 02:20 WombaT wrote:On October 10 2025 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:This is pretty basic stuff. But, I'll outline it here any way. The problems with a fiat money system are #1. They can create new money at any time. This devalues the current money supply and hits savers the hardest. (b). as stated here earlier by another poster.... every dollar created corresponds to a liability somewhere in the system. and (iii): large institutions can behave recklessly knowing they'll be bailed out. In 2008 and 2020, trillions were printed to stabilize financial markets. the wealthy saw huge gains and wealth inequality skyrocketed. The average american got totally fucked over in 2008 and 2020. On October 10 2025 01:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 10 2025 00:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 10 2025 00:50 Sadist wrote:
Gold is just as arbitrary as paper.
no, gold has objective value as a universal metal that can do 83759378 different things. Gold is not as arbitrary as paper. There is no such thing as a material having objective value. Value is subjective, by definition. no, gold has many uses. that gives it value. it is used in the making of cars. it is an anti inflammatory. it is very useful in a plethora of medical devices , ortho implants. Gold is amazing. They didn’t get fucked by Fiat currency though did they? That wasn’t the problem in those epochs He's talking about the expansion of the money supply in response to the CDO crash/COVID virus. Obviously the main problem with COVID was the virus but he's saying that in addition to all the dying the average American got fucked by the expanded money supply. It's not really an argument though. I could equally argue that the existence of bad drivers makes the case for not having any hands on the steering wheel at all. The potential mismanagement of the money supply is not an argument for refusing to manage the money supply at all, it is an argument for better management. The argument is that mismanagement is inevitable. That's a valid argument. It's one of the reasons for an independent central bank. The incentive for politicians is to lower rates to boost short term growth at the cost of inflation. The gold standard does not fix the mismanagement though. History is full of inflationary and deflationary periods without fiat currency. Show nested quote +On October 10 2025 02:50 WombaT wrote:On October 10 2025 02:28 KwarK wrote:On October 10 2025 02:20 WombaT wrote:On October 10 2025 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:This is pretty basic stuff. But, I'll outline it here any way. The problems with a fiat money system are #1. They can create new money at any time. This devalues the current money supply and hits savers the hardest. (b). as stated here earlier by another poster.... every dollar created corresponds to a liability somewhere in the system. and (iii): large institutions can behave recklessly knowing they'll be bailed out. In 2008 and 2020, trillions were printed to stabilize financial markets. the wealthy saw huge gains and wealth inequality skyrocketed. The average american got totally fucked over in 2008 and 2020. On October 10 2025 01:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 10 2025 00:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 10 2025 00:50 Sadist wrote:
Gold is just as arbitrary as paper.
no, gold has objective value as a universal metal that can do 83759378 different things. Gold is not as arbitrary as paper. There is no such thing as a material having objective value. Value is subjective, by definition. no, gold has many uses. that gives it value. it is used in the making of cars. it is an anti inflammatory. it is very useful in a plethora of medical devices , ortho implants. Gold is amazing. They didn’t get fucked by Fiat currency though did they? That wasn’t the problem in those epochs He's talking about the expansion of the money supply in response to the CDO crash/COVID virus. Obviously the main problem with COVID was the virus but he's saying that in addition to all the dying the average American got fucked by the expanded money supply. It's not really an argument though. I could equally argue that the existence of bad drivers makes the case for not having any hands of the steering wheel at all. The potential mismanagement of the money supply is not an argument for refusing to manage the money supply at all, it is an argument for better management. Ok but I had a good time hanging around with Italian Americans and being an honorary guido in the 1980s, have you thought about that? The element I don’t really understand is critics of fiat currency, are almost invariably big proponents of capitalism I’ve long found that a bit incongruous, if anything I’d expect it to be more of a left position, or at least more likely to be With the current monetary system you're putting the government in control of the money supply. Less government involvement into the economy and money supply is consistent. The gold standard is just the wrong way to achieve that. A standard rule like Friedman's k-plus rule or free banking would make more sense.
Interesting, would like to learn more of yourself or if other posters wanna chip in.
Not really my area of particular expertise, I’ve only ever really encountered anti-fiat points, basically exclusively being packaged with a return to the gold standard, or something similar.
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this is just nasty man...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyld9qqgv8o
my sister in law has worked for the US Navy for 20+ years. She is deemed "essential" and not getting paid. For every other shutdown she got paid for the time she worked during the shutdown once the shutdown ended. Every time there has been a shutdown it was 100% absolutely, beyond doubt that everyone got paid all the time they worked for $0 once the shutdown ended. This is not the case with this government shutdown.
She has been given a bunch of "non-information" from HR and the people who run her Naval Command. Stuff that says " we know there are a lot of media reports and we can not confirm or deny them". Basically, "we know that we know nothing". Under particular threat is anyone who takes any form of "leave" for any reason. Doesn't matter if you got hit by a bus or have a sore throat. Any "leave" can result in having your "essential" status removed and you will not get paid for the rest of the shutdown.
A co-worker of hers got sick the day the shut down was announced. After digging through all the various pieces of info on how this shut down works her co-worker declared in her office in front a 10+ people "well guys i'm back but i might be working for free right now". This woman had no idea taking a day off for an illness would result in this outcome. The shutdown and the details of its execution had not been given. That day she was not even certain a shutdown would happen at all.
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EPT
