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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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BlackJack
United States10418 Posts
On June 17 2025 05:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Why don't you ask Serm instead of claiming that posters are generally equating the right (though "not literally every single person on the right") with Nazis? Because the criteria obvious enough we can skip that step, at least for me. You can ask if you are unsure. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44125 Posts
On June 17 2025 05:31 BlackJack wrote: Because the criteria obvious enough we can skip that step, at least for me. You can ask if you are unsure. Uh, okay. Serm, BJ believes that you think that most people on the right are Nazis because you called out a tweet posted by a Republican who BJ was unfamiliar with. Setting aside the massive non sequitur, do you think most people on the right are Nazis? Maybe BJ is correct about your position, but I haven't seen sufficient evidence yet that that's your position, Serm. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20010 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21596 Posts
On June 17 2025 06:35 decafchicken wrote: Not for atleast another 3.5 years...Just dropped in to see if we were done discussing the semantics of nazis yet but i guess not | ||
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Vivax
21960 Posts
On June 17 2025 06:35 decafchicken wrote: Just dropped in to see if we were done discussing the semantics of nazis yet but i guess not *distant Godwin laughing noises* Maybe if the US had more than two parties it wouldn‘t mean that everyone who really was a nazi voted republican by default. As it is in Europe having center variations of right wing parties leads to nazis picking the extreme right because they don‘t have alternatives. Moderate right wingers can exist. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10418 Posts
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Billyboy
799 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8970 Posts
On June 17 2025 07:04 BlackJack wrote: At some point someone’s going to say “you’re falling for BJs trap by letting him turn this into a discussion about nazism instead of talking about serious issues” all while ignoring that it’s other people that just can’t stop bringing up Nazism. and On June 16 2025 15:46 BlackJack wrote: Apparently her last political action was to be the only Democrat to side with Republicans to strip access to healthcare for undocumented migrants. I'm glad you think the woman who collaborates with Nazis and who has blood on her hands from denying people access to healthcare is sooooooo amazing. Has Luigi taught you nothing? You were literally the first person to bring it up after the discussions turned to the assassinations. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24897 Posts
On June 17 2025 04:40 oBlade wrote: Yes, there's over 250 in Congress and laymen would be hard pressed to name 5. So fuck lmao? It’s a pretty bloody prominent political office, that Joe or Jane Public don’t know the guy is utterly irrelevant to my point. I know a fraction of our 600ish MPs, and I follow politics closer than most. I am close to 100% sure that if anyone sitting in Westminster, or even a local councillor was posting anything in the ballpark after one of their colleagues was killed, there would be consequences coming from their party for doing so. I’m pretty sure the same goes for most Western nations. Not this GOP though. On June 17 2025 05:17 BlackJack wrote: I actually meant to write “random Republican senator” and I thought I did until I reread my post after you pointed that out. The point is I don’t know who that guy is. I doubt Serm knows who that guy is or knows anything about his life, or his voting record. Why don’t you tell me what criteria you think Serm is using to relate this guy to Nazism besides “he’s a right winger and he made a tweet I don’t like” and I’ll retract my previous statement. I don’t overly care. Serm can clear that up if he so desires. Rhetoric getting more and more charged is hardly news, but on the auld sliding scale, it coming from a Senator, worse. His own party seemingly not rebuking or censoring him, worse again. Things were pretty fractious from as far back as the Bush era, and I imagine before, but that was when I started actively following US politics. I can’t recall seeing much of the kind of things outlined in this link before. Also quite interesting polling results on rhetoric and politically-motivated violence. There seems a real bipartisan blindness to the motivations of folks committing (IMO) pretty obviously politically-motivated violence, informed by increasingly charged rhetoric with a healthy dose of misinformation. I mean it makes sense, can’t be a problem with the culture, or our ‘team’ and how it contributes. Then that may require some rather uncomfortable introspection and wider criticism, easier for the auld brain to just write it off as crazy people doing crazy things. I’m just not personally interested in re-litigating ‘the left are too quick to scream Nazi’ for the 15000th time unless its forming a part of more holistic discussion. Especially right after what appears to be a politically motivated set of killings and shootings that very much appears to come from the right side of the aisle. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11454 Posts
On June 17 2025 07:28 WombaT wrote: So fuck lmao? It’s a pretty bloody prominent political office, that Joe or Jane Public don’t know the guy is utterly irrelevant to my point. I know a fraction of our 600ish MPs, and I follow politics closer than most. I am close to 100% sure that if anyone sitting in Westminster, or even a local councillor was posting anything in the ballpark after one of their colleagues was killed, there would be consequences coming from their party for doing so. I’m pretty sure the same goes for most Western nations. Not this GOP though. Also, there are exactly 100 senators. Not "over 250". And about half of them are not republicans. There are currently exactly 53 republican senators. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44125 Posts
On June 17 2025 07:04 BlackJack wrote: At some point someone’s going to say “you’re falling for BJs trap by letting him turn this into a discussion about nazism instead of talking about serious issues” all while ignoring that it’s other people that just can’t stop bringing up Nazism. It's other people *and* you. A lot of people are perpetuating the Nazi discussion, including you. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24897 Posts
On June 17 2025 04:54 LightSpectra wrote: Polls do show that progressive policies seem to be very popular. On the other hand, people often don't turn out to actually vote for progressives espousing those policies, otherwise Bernie should've won big in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries. And moreover, if you look at approval ratings, centrist Republicans like Charlie Baker and Chris Sununu consistently poll at the top, and their popularity actually does translate to huge electoral wins. I say this as someone passionately for universal healthcare and rapid decarbonization: swing voters get scared by bold spending plans. Kamala Harris promising $25k to first-time home buyers probably lost her more votes than not denouncing Israel hard enough. It doesn't actually matter that Trump's tax cuts for the rich were projected to cost orders of magnitude more. The main driving force to the polls is fear, not hope. It’s just not a very left-wing country. I mean fuck just look at the right side of the ledger in recent years. The Dem’s best shot is probably broad church, with a big focus on policies that the progressive wing champion that are actually more broadly popular. Be compassionate but not full ‘woke’ (god I hate that word nowadays), but I think people are broadly correct that it turns off the centre. Equally, throw the left some policy bones. And some of those policies are pretty bloody popular, not just thru the centre but sometimes even out to the right. I’m very left wing, more than I let on in my postings here probably. I feel broadly the same about the UK. Do vested interests poison the well? Absolutely. But that only can do so much. It can do a lot, of course I’m not an idiot. But unless you’ve a majority, or a plurality of folks who are actually left wing in your country that are being stifled by various mechanisms, you’re not going suddenly be able to do this big transformative program. I don’t think that’s the case in the UK, and it sure as fuck ain’t in the States. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23094 Posts
On June 17 2025 06:35 decafchicken wrote: Just dropped in to see if we were done discussing the semantics of nazis yet but i guess not Think it is pretty definitive that they do this compulsively and can't help themselves. | ||
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Introvert
United States4719 Posts
On June 17 2025 04:38 Zambrah wrote: We should take advantage of the fact that most Democrats are Vote Blue No Matter Who Centrists, and those sort of centrists are the ones who take issue with the more principle focused progressive/leftist voters. We can safely say that the Vote Blue No Matter Who types arent worth pandering too because theyve said time and time again that theyll just always vote for Democrats, so instead of trying to pander to them, Democrats should pander to the left, particularly the left's very popular policies. Stop appealing to Republicans, stop moderating and conservatizing, be bold, be optimistic, appeal to the popular policies that the left espouses, universal healthcare, stomping down big business, big tech, all of these abusive corporations, money in politics, fight for the working class, and get people excited for a brighter, better future instead of depressing people by compromising with fascists who your voting base vehemently understands as fascists. Dont pretend the world around people doesn't feel bad, that just "its not as bad as it could be" is inspiring, or makes people actually feel any better about their circumstances. Christ, if Democrats could just do anything but double down on their same-old same-old lost to Donald Trump's awful ass two times playbook. I'm going to repsond because I know there are other people who believe this, but it's a crazy thing to think after the last decade of elections. Twice Trump breaks the blue wall and along the way in 2025 sees a massive swing his way in from Hispanic moderate voters and younger voters in particular. yet the myth of "we just need to energize our base" won't die. The 2000s called and want their taking point back. Dems now win the single most consistent voting block(s): white college graduates and the older subset of Boomers. Meanwhile, Biden the "moderate" (as he was portrayed) actually won against Trump. Some people are stuck in the same political fantasy land Dems were in almost two decades ago. And saying that Dems moderated when voters viewed Harris as further to the left than Trump to the right is also going to need a better argument. Trump broke with Republican orthodoxy on key points and it's helped him every time, but somehow a hard left swing will do the job. Remember, when Kamala was waffling on her record in 2024 it's not thst her "moderating" lost her votes, it's that no one believed her. | ||
micronesia
United States24653 Posts
https://www.aol.com/pete-hegseths-incredibly-problematic-pentagon-112157089.html I got a wide-dissemination e-mail invite to attend or stream tomorrow's session. No thanks. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10418 Posts
On June 17 2025 07:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: and You were literally the first person to bring it up after the discussions turned to the assassinations. Evidently you missed the post just above the one you’re quoting where serm says On June 16 2025 08:50 Sermokala wrote: These are the people whos feelings blackjack wants to defend from being called nazies. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24897 Posts
On June 17 2025 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote: Think it is pretty definitive that they do this compulsively and can't help themselves. It’s a political discussion thread, people will discuss things. | ||
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Billyboy
799 Posts
On June 17 2025 08:56 micronesia wrote: I wasn't aware until today that Hegseth is holding Christian prayer sessions in the Pentagon during work hour in the auditorium. But it's okay because it's voluntary. https://www.aol.com/pete-hegseths-incredibly-problematic-pentagon-112157089.html I got a wide-dissemination e-mail invite to attend or stream tomorrow's session. No thanks. It is strange to me that is often the alcoholic womanizers that do these things to show how "Christian" they are. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24897 Posts
On June 17 2025 08:38 Introvert wrote: I'm going to repsond because I know there are other people who believe this, but it's a crazy thing to think after the last decade of elections. Twice Trump breaks the blue wall and along the way in 2025 sees a massive swing his way in from Hispanic moderate voters and younger voters in particular. yet the myth of "we just need to energize our base" won't die. The 2000s called and want their taking point back. Dems now win the single most consistent voting block(s): white college graduates and the older subset of Boomers. Meanwhile, Biden the "moderate" (as he was portrayed) actually won against Trump. Some people are stuck in the same political fantasy land Dems were in almost two decades ago. And saying that Dems moderated when voters viewed Harris as further to the left than Trump to the right is also going to need a better argument. Trump broke with Republican orthodoxy on key points and it's helped him every time, but somehow a hard left swing will do the job. Remember, when Kamala was waffling on her record in 2024 it's not thst her "moderating" lost her votes, it's that no one believed her. Yeah I’d broadly agree although, I’m not sure it’s a myth so much as an untested hypothetical. Strategy A may be the best strategy, but if you don’t try strategy B well, assuming it’s not insane on paper, how do you know? In the British context this was much of my frustration about Corbyn winning the Labour leadership contest and getting relentlessly sandbagged by the centre of the party. He’s got a mandate, play ball. It’s always the demand when it’s a centrist, give him a fair crack and if he fails, it’s a pretty big indicator that pivoting left doesn’t work in that context. The US context is different again of course. Trump broke with Republican orthodoxy every time because for a decent chunk of those voters it’s a cult. The Dems don’t have any comparable figure. While technically not a Dem anyway, Sanders has some leftist credentials and some popularity amongst that cohort. But he only has that so long as he maintains his bona fides. Integrity is his main appeal. I would agree that Harris, not a great candidate in terms of the intangibles. Maybe unfair, maybe not but perception counts for a lot and I never really liked her, she doesn’t feel especially sincere as a person. I think Hillary Clinton had that problem as well, but unlike Harris (your mileage may vary), I think Clinton at least had competent technocrat going for her. Was an odd campaign anyway, Democratic strategists and staffers are fucking stealing a living if you ask me. Even if we entirely sidestep the whole Biden competence question. I did not know Walz before the campaign. He got introduced, political disagreements aside I found him quite bloody likeable, and kinda the perfect guy for the job. Something of the everyman about him, moral without being too lecturing or pious, competent without seeming elitist. After a strong start he seemed to get shelved for, some reason? It felt like ‘hey here’s Tim’ and people quite liked the lad. Rather than run with that they decided, not to? For some reason. It’s fucking bizarre. Whole campaign was. Not even from my own personal politics, if we assume the winning ground is the centre with a little room leftwards, and the usual bullshit optics count, awful campaign. Stealing a living as I said. Really shouldn’t be that difficult. You can run from the centre if you want, just do it competently. Throw the left a bone or two, say idk Bernie Sanders will get a health gig, Elizabeth Warren some financial regulatory gig, things they’ve got bona fides on. Democratic strategy is fucking awful, to an almost inexplicable degree. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44125 Posts
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