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On June 17 2025 01:38 LightSpectra wrote:
We're in our tenth year of Republicans flagrantly lying about everything all the time, is anyone still surprised?
Been longer than 10 years but yeah.
I don't know, this all feels sorta fitting for the times.
DFL leadership compromised with Republicans to do something depraved for the sake of "order" only for some Republican that Democrats have helped empower to kill DFL's leader that helped them pass their legislation anyway. Then Republicans laugh about how stupid and weak Democrats/DFL are.
I hope libs/Dems/ilk are at least learning from this, but I can't summon much optimism they will.
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On June 17 2025 01:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 01:38 LightSpectra wrote:
We're in our tenth year of Republicans flagrantly lying about everything all the time, is anyone still surprised? Been longer than 10 years but yeah. I don't know, this all feels sorta fitting for the times. DFL leadership compromised with Republicans to do something depraved for the sake of "order" only for some Republican that Democrats have helped empower to kill DFL's leader that helped them pass their legislation anyway. Then Republicans laugh about how stupid and weak Democrats/DFL are. I hope libs/Dems/ilk are at least learning from this, but I can't summon much optimism they will.
lol. lmao, even.
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Compromise is a must in a democracy.
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I don't think they are learning, but I do think the left as a whole is evolving. I think this situation is identical to the right wing beginning to embrace the tea party. The only difference is democrats have designed their party to be a lot more immune to populism and democracy as a whole. As silly as that sounds, lol.
I think the state of the democratic party is very offset from the state of the left as a whole. I think republican party is a lot more adaptive and sensitive to changes in their voters.
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On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though.
Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing. Celebrating Luigi Mangione for shooting a guy in the back and heartbroken that the Trump shooter was a couple inches off. There’s plenty of politicians on the other side of the aisle where if something like this happened they would be using their obituary as masturbatory material. They don’t have an issue with political violence they just have an issue with it towards anyone with a D by their name. Or if that’s wrong maybe they should spend less time calling out the actual posts condoning political violence instead of my post pointing out the absurdity of it all.
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On June 17 2025 03:13 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though. Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing.
Could you please elaborate on who said that anyone on the right is a Nazi?
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I have never found it helpful to frame Democratic voters as being overwhelmingly progressive and elected Democrats as being overwhelmingly liberal centrists. The reality seems to consistently be that about half the voters are centrists and a little over half of elected Democrats are centrists. There genuinely were a lot of people excited about Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden and afraid Bernie Sanders was too radical.
We can just pretend those people don't exist and blame the DNC/donors for everything wrong with Democrats, but why?
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On June 17 2025 03:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 03:13 BlackJack wrote:On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though. Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing. Could you please elaborate on who said that anyone on the right is a Nazi?
Have you been keeping up with the thread? It’s been talking about Nazis for weeks now. Sermokala just posted a tweet from some random republican and said something like ‘these are the people that blackjack doesn’t want us to call Nazis.’ Kwark has said this is why you never let Nazis in charge because you’re never too aryan. They are not calling out specific people as Nazis, are they? They are using the term quite vaguely to refer to some “them” of people on the right.
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On June 17 2025 03:27 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 03:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 17 2025 03:13 BlackJack wrote:On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though. Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing. Could you please elaborate on who said that anyone on the right is a Nazi? Have you been keeping up with the thread? It’s been talking about Nazis for weeks now. Sermokala just posted a tweet from some random republican and said something like ‘these are the people that blackjack doesn’t want us to call Nazis.’ Kwark has said this is why you never let Nazis in charge because you’re never too aryan. They are not calling out specific people as Nazis, are they? They are using the term quite vaguely to refer to some “them” of people on the right.
And you believe those are examples of claiming that basically any person on the right is a Nazi?
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If we want to be pedantic about it, no, not literally every single person on the right. Thanks for clearing that up
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On June 17 2025 04:23 BlackJack wrote:
If we want to be pedantic about it, no, not literally every single person on the right. Thanks for clearing that up
So what would you say is the difference between people on the right who get called Nazis, and the people on the right who don't?
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Northern Ireland26037 Posts
On June 17 2025 03:27 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 03:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 17 2025 03:13 BlackJack wrote:On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though. Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing. Could you please elaborate on who said that anyone on the right is a Nazi? Have you been keeping up with the thread? It’s been talking about Nazis for weeks now. Sermokala just posted a tweet from some random republican and said something like ‘these are the people that blackjack doesn’t want us to call Nazis.’ Kwark has said this is why you never let Nazis in charge because you’re never too aryan. They are not calling out specific people as Nazis, are they? They are using the term quite vaguely to refer to some “them” of people on the right.
Can we really call a sitting Senator a ‘random Republican’?
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On June 17 2025 03:21 LightSpectra wrote:
I have never found it helpful to frame Democratic voters as being overwhelmingly progressive and elected Democrats as being overwhelmingly liberal centrists. The reality seems to consistently be that about half the voters are centrists and a little over half of elected Democrats are centrists. There genuinely were a lot of people excited about Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden and afraid Bernie Sanders was too radical.
We can just pretend those people don't exist and blame the DNC/donors for everything wrong with Democrats, but why?
We should take advantage of the fact that most Democrats are Vote Blue No Matter Who Centrists, and those sort of centrists are the ones who take issue with the more principle focused progressive/leftist voters. We can safely say that the Vote Blue No Matter Who types arent worth pandering too because theyve said time and time again that theyll just always vote for Democrats, so instead of trying to pander to them, Democrats should pander to the left, particularly the left's very popular policies.
Stop appealing to Republicans, stop moderating and conservatizing, be bold, be optimistic, appeal to the popular policies that the left espouses, universal healthcare, stomping down big business, big tech, all of these abusive corporations, money in politics, fight for the working class, and get people excited for a brighter, better future instead of depressing people by compromising with fascists who your voting base vehemently understands as fascists. Dont pretend the world around people doesn't feel bad, that just "its not as bad as it could be" is inspiring, or makes people actually feel any better about their circumstances.
Christ, if Democrats could just do anything but double down on their same-old same-old lost to Donald Trump's awful ass two times playbook.
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On June 17 2025 04:29 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 03:27 BlackJack wrote:On June 17 2025 03:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 17 2025 03:13 BlackJack wrote:On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though. Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing. Could you please elaborate on who said that anyone on the right is a Nazi? Have you been keeping up with the thread? It’s been talking about Nazis for weeks now. Sermokala just posted a tweet from some random republican and said something like ‘these are the people that blackjack doesn’t want us to call Nazis.’ Kwark has said this is why you never let Nazis in charge because you’re never too aryan. They are not calling out specific people as Nazis, are they? They are using the term quite vaguely to refer to some “them” of people on the right. Can we really call a sitting Senator a ‘random Republican’?
Yes, there's over 250 in Congress and laymen would be hard pressed to name 5.
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On June 17 2025 04:23 BlackJack wrote:
If we want to be pedantic about it, no, not literally every single person on the right. Thanks for clearing that up
"Not literally every single person on the right [is a Nazi]" gives you quite a range, from 0% to about 99.999%. Can you be more specific? Do you think people here are saying that 99% of people on the right are Nazis? 75%? 50%? 10%? 1%?
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United States43232 Posts
On June 17 2025 03:13 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though. Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing. Celebrating Luigi Mangione for shooting a guy in the back and heartbroken that the Trump shooter was a couple inches off. There’s plenty of politicians on the other side of the aisle where if something like this happened they would be using their obituary as masturbatory material. They don’t have an issue with political violence they just have an issue with it towards anyone with a D by their name. Or if that’s wrong maybe they should spend less time calling out the actual posts condoning political violence instead of my post pointing out the absurdity of it all.
Eh, I don't know that violence against Nazis should be celebrated. It'd be kind of weird, like meeting a vet that really enjoys putting down the sick animals. It shouldn't be the favourite part of anyone's day. It should be done seriously and with a full knowledge of the act.
It's like the Kyle Rittenhouse issue. He was on camera weeks before killing all those people saying he fantasized about taking his gun and killing shoplifters and other lawbreakers. He longed to take life and was seeking out ways to create scenarios in which he could kill people. The people harming Nazis shouldn't want to harm Nazis, they shouldn't want to harm anyone, it should be a burden that is fulfilled reluctantly when other options are exhausted.
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On June 17 2025 04:38 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 03:21 LightSpectra wrote:
I have never found it helpful to frame Democratic voters as being overwhelmingly progressive and elected Democrats as being overwhelmingly liberal centrists. The reality seems to consistently be that about half the voters are centrists and a little over half of elected Democrats are centrists. There genuinely were a lot of people excited about Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden and afraid Bernie Sanders was too radical.
We can just pretend those people don't exist and blame the DNC/donors for everything wrong with Democrats, but why? We should take advantage of the fact that most Democrats are Vote Blue No Matter Who Centrists, and those sort of centrists are the ones who take issue with the more principle focused progressive/leftist voters. We can safely say that the Vote Blue No Matter Who types arent worth pandering too because theyve said time and time again that theyll just always vote for Democrats, so instead of trying to pander to them, Democrats should pander to the left, particularly the left's very popular policies. Stop appealing to Republicans, stop moderating and conservatizing, be bold, be optimistic, appeal to the popular policies that the left espouses, universal healthcare, stomping down big business, big tech, all of these abusive corporations, money in politics, fight for the working class, and get people excited for a brighter, better future instead of depressing people by compromising with fascists who your voting base vehemently understands as fascists. Dont pretend the world around people doesn't feel bad, that just "its not as bad as it could be" is inspiring, or makes people actually feel any better about their circumstances. Christ, if Democrats could just do anything but double down on their same-old same-old lost to Donald Trump's awful ass two times playbook.
Polls do show that progressive policies seem to be very popular. On the other hand, people often don't turn out to actually vote for progressives espousing those policies, otherwise Bernie should've won big in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries. And moreover, if you look at approval ratings, centrist Republicans like Charlie Baker and Chris Sununu consistently poll at the top, and their popularity actually does translate to huge electoral wins.
I say this as someone passionately for universal healthcare and rapid decarbonization: swing voters get scared by bold spending plans. Kamala Harris promising $25k to first-time home buyers probably lost her more votes than not denouncing Israel hard enough. It doesn't actually matter that Trump's tax cuts for the rich were projected to cost orders of magnitude more. The main driving force to the polls is fear, not hope.
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On June 17 2025 04:54 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 04:38 Zambrah wrote:On June 17 2025 03:21 LightSpectra wrote:
I have never found it helpful to frame Democratic voters as being overwhelmingly progressive and elected Democrats as being overwhelmingly liberal centrists. The reality seems to consistently be that about half the voters are centrists and a little over half of elected Democrats are centrists. There genuinely were a lot of people excited about Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden and afraid Bernie Sanders was too radical.
We can just pretend those people don't exist and blame the DNC/donors for everything wrong with Democrats, but why? We should take advantage of the fact that most Democrats are Vote Blue No Matter Who Centrists, and those sort of centrists are the ones who take issue with the more principle focused progressive/leftist voters. We can safely say that the Vote Blue No Matter Who types arent worth pandering too because theyve said time and time again that theyll just always vote for Democrats, so instead of trying to pander to them, Democrats should pander to the left, particularly the left's very popular policies. Stop appealing to Republicans, stop moderating and conservatizing, be bold, be optimistic, appeal to the popular policies that the left espouses, universal healthcare, stomping down big business, big tech, all of these abusive corporations, money in politics, fight for the working class, and get people excited for a brighter, better future instead of depressing people by compromising with fascists who your voting base vehemently understands as fascists. Dont pretend the world around people doesn't feel bad, that just "its not as bad as it could be" is inspiring, or makes people actually feel any better about their circumstances. Christ, if Democrats could just do anything but double down on their same-old same-old lost to Donald Trump's awful ass two times playbook. Polls do show that progressive policies seem to be very popular. On the other hand, people often don't turn out to actually vote for progressives espousing those policies, otherwise Bernie should've won big in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries. And moreover, if you look at approval ratings, centrist Republicans like Charlie Baker and Chris Sununu consistently poll at the top, and their popularity actually does translate to huge electoral wins. I say this as someone passionately for universal healthcare and rapid decarbonization: swing voters get scared by bold spending plans. Kamala Harris promising $25k to first-time home buyers probably lost her more votes than not denouncing Israel hard enough. It doesn't actually matter that Trump's tax cuts for the rich were projected to cost orders of magnitude more. The main driving force to the polls is fear, not hope.
Swing voters are dumb and worthless, its infinitely more important to energize your base, imo. Stats on people who swing vote show they mostly don't matter, Republicans are always going to vote for Republicans, Democrats are always going to vote for Democrats.
Kamala Harris hanging out with the Cheneys and promising to have Republicans in her cabinet didnt swing any voters to her, it just depressed the people who might have voted for her if voting for Democrats wasnt such a routine exercise in depression. Democrats win when turnout is high and people feel excited and energized to go out and vote for them. Republicans win when Democrats arent excited or energized because the Republican base is smaller but extremely consistent.
Democrats also regularly make every effort to quash and snub their progressive wing, which again depresses that voting bloc since they arent Vote Blue No Matter Who'ers so much. They snub people who might actually contribute to a victory in order to appeal to people who will never vote for them.
Centrist Republicans havent been president in nearly 20 years, so Im not really convinced that centrism is doing anyone any favors on any side of the US political aisle.
Democrats will continue their inability to look inwards at their own electoral needs and make changes that would address those needs, instead they will continue to either lose to fascists, win once in a while, and be, at their absolute peak, a mild stopper for radical change, be it negative or positive. Given the Republicans have fully embraced their form of radical change all that really leaves us with is more fascism as far as I can tell.
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On June 17 2025 04:29 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 03:27 BlackJack wrote:On June 17 2025 03:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 17 2025 03:13 BlackJack wrote:On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though. Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing. Could you please elaborate on who said that anyone on the right is a Nazi? Have you been keeping up with the thread? It’s been talking about Nazis for weeks now. Sermokala just posted a tweet from some random republican and said something like ‘these are the people that blackjack doesn’t want us to call Nazis.’ Kwark has said this is why you never let Nazis in charge because you’re never too aryan. They are not calling out specific people as Nazis, are they? They are using the term quite vaguely to refer to some “them” of people on the right. Can we really call a sitting Senator a ‘random Republican’?
I actually meant to write “random Republican senator” and I thought I did until I reread my post after you pointed that out. The point is I don’t know who that guy is. I doubt Serm knows who that guy is or knows anything about his life, or his voting record.
Why don’t you tell me what criteria you think Serm is using to relate this guy to Nazism besides “he’s a right winger and he made a tweet I don’t like” and I’ll retract my previous statement.
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On June 17 2025 05:17 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2025 04:29 WombaT wrote:On June 17 2025 03:27 BlackJack wrote:On June 17 2025 03:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 17 2025 03:13 BlackJack wrote:On June 16 2025 22:33 oBlade wrote:
There are a nonzero amount of people here who hope for, and a lesser but nonzero amount who advocate for blowing up and shooting people they don't like. The way I read BlackJack's comment is with her voting record on that day, change the letter in front of her name and she'd be another deserving part of the fascist blob by those people's fickle reckoning. That's hard to look in and admit though. Exactly. There are people here advocating for violence against Nazis, and oh yeah, a nazi is basically anyone right wing. Could you please elaborate on who said that anyone on the right is a Nazi? Have you been keeping up with the thread? It’s been talking about Nazis for weeks now. Sermokala just posted a tweet from some random republican and said something like ‘these are the people that blackjack doesn’t want us to call Nazis.’ Kwark has said this is why you never let Nazis in charge because you’re never too aryan. They are not calling out specific people as Nazis, are they? They are using the term quite vaguely to refer to some “them” of people on the right. Can we really call a sitting Senator a ‘random Republican’? I actually meant to write “random Republican senator” and I thought I did until I reread my post after you pointed that out. The point is I don’t know who that guy is. I doubt Serm knows who that guy is or knows anything about his life, or his voting record. Why don’t you tell me what criteria you think Serm is using to relate this guy to Nazism besides “he’s a right winger and he made a tweet I don’t like” and I’ll retract my previous statement.
Why don't you ask Serm instead of claiming that posters are generally equating the right (though "not literally every single person on the right") with Nazis?
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