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On June 12 2025 06:47 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 06:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 12 2025 04:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 11 2025 21:39 oBlade wrote:
I am not conservative What sets you apart from American conservatives? Just think of him as the GH of conservatives, way further down the rabbit hole but they are nice to him because he is on their side. Are people especially nice to GH here? I must have missed that memo. Regardless. GH is clearly some flavour of socialist, and is happy with that label. Perhaps oBlade isn’t some flavour of conservative, but if he isn’t I’m somewhat confused as to what his ideology actually is.
Some are overly, some are super sick of his schtick. Some ignore him being condescending to everyone, having all the Russian talking points, non stop talking about people being complicit in genocide, while supporting a nation that has open government policies of genocide to their own population. They find him to have an interesting position, whereas the people annoyed see him as having such a binary position (everything US is bad, anyone associated with US bad, any enemy of the US good) that he is boring and also quite frankly mean to most, even those nice to him.
Oblade considers himself conservative, it is just that he is so far down the rabbit hole that he has no realized that Trump is not a conservative. Just a populist who changes his position more often then most change their clothes and has no actual political position but rather just whatever suits him in the moment.
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Northern Ireland26035 Posts
On June 12 2025 07:01 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 06:47 WombaT wrote:On June 12 2025 06:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 12 2025 04:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 11 2025 21:39 oBlade wrote:
I am not conservative What sets you apart from American conservatives? Just think of him as the GH of conservatives, way further down the rabbit hole but they are nice to him because he is on their side. Are people especially nice to GH here? I must have missed that memo. Regardless. GH is clearly some flavour of socialist, and is happy with that label. Perhaps oBlade isn’t some flavour of conservative, but if he isn’t I’m somewhat confused as to what his ideology actually is. Some are overly, some are super sick of his schtick. Some ignore him being condescending to everyone, having all the Russian talking points, non stop talking about people being complicit in genocide, while supporting a nation that has open government policies of genocide to their own population. They find him to have an interesting position, whereas the people annoyed see him as having such a binary position (everything US is bad, anyone associated with US bad, any enemy of the US good) that he is boring and also quite frankly mean to most, even those nice to him. Oblade considers himself conservative, it is just that he is so far down the rabbit hole that he has no realized that Trump is not a conservative. Just a populist who changes his position more often then most change their clothes and has no actual political position but rather just whatever suits him in the moment.
Any neutral observer would IMO conclude that GH gets a ton of flak in the political threads. More than most.
You’re free to personally think he’s full of shit, I don’t think the idea that the idea ‘people are nice to him because he’s on their side’ remotely stands up to objective scrutiny. Even amongst the further left posters, of which I’d consider myself amongst.
I highly, highly doubt if I linked a couple of threads and had my partner browse and asked them to assess if GH was overly indulged and treated atypically nicely, that they’d conclude in the affirmative.
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I think it greatly depends on the topic.
GH is an annoying cosplayer who is completely uninterested in having any sort of a real discussion because he thinks he's above it, all of us who engage in any realpolitk are morons who don't understand that his way is the only way and doing anything that he doesn't agree with is a big waste of time, ironically, he's not really doing anything so there's that.
The split personality saga was so annoying that it might paint people here as overly aggressive and angry at him, to me, at least in this thread he's relatively benign, pushing his own little agendas and criticisms and living his best far leftie life. On the other hand, his takes in the Palestine and Ukraine threads are extremely obnoxious and aggravating.
oBlade is just a weird little dude who much like him thinks he's the only one who figured things out, in a really weird twist he gets most of his takes from Tucker Carlson who might be the most fake person in the history of media so there's that.
Also, as a personal pet peeve, oBlade thinks he's funny which makes him much worse. Also, fascist bootlicking.
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On June 12 2025 07:19 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 07:01 Billyboy wrote:On June 12 2025 06:47 WombaT wrote:On June 12 2025 06:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 12 2025 04:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 11 2025 21:39 oBlade wrote:
I am not conservative What sets you apart from American conservatives? Just think of him as the GH of conservatives, way further down the rabbit hole but they are nice to him because he is on their side. Are people especially nice to GH here? I must have missed that memo. Regardless. GH is clearly some flavour of socialist, and is happy with that label. Perhaps oBlade isn’t some flavour of conservative, but if he isn’t I’m somewhat confused as to what his ideology actually is. Some are overly, some are super sick of his schtick. Some ignore him being condescending to everyone, having all the Russian talking points, non stop talking about people being complicit in genocide, while supporting a nation that has open government policies of genocide to their own population. They find him to have an interesting position, whereas the people annoyed see him as having such a binary position (everything US is bad, anyone associated with US bad, any enemy of the US good) that he is boring and also quite frankly mean to most, even those nice to him. Oblade considers himself conservative, it is just that he is so far down the rabbit hole that he has no realized that Trump is not a conservative. Just a populist who changes his position more often then most change their clothes and has no actual political position but rather just whatever suits him in the moment. Any neutral observer would IMO conclude that GH gets a ton of flak in the political threads. More than most. You’re free to personally think he’s full of shit, I don’t think the idea that the idea ‘people are nice to him because he’s on their side’ remotely stands up to objective scrutiny. Even amongst the further left posters, of which I’d consider myself amongst. I highly, highly doubt if I linked a couple of threads and had my partner browse and asked them to assess if GH was overly indulged and treated atypically nicely, that they’d conclude in the affirmative.
Happy to agree to disagree, but I will give you that the tide is turning with posts in the Ukraine thread. That being said I think it will go back just as Musk will be back with Trump.
The timing of this getting escalated is sure in Trumps favor. Instead of rightwing news outlets talking about the Musk Trump feud, or the massive deficit increasing bill they are back on to the evils of the radical left and how all the problems in the US are because of immigrants.
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On June 12 2025 01:24 Jankisa wrote:
1. Introvert:
Re: The immigration bill.
I asked you why would a party and their leader that is actually motivated by fixing this problem not work it through legislature, as the founders have intended and you completely ignored it, for the, well, I lost count at this point. Then you went for some more hand wringing about civility.
The ICE raids have broken numerous laws, which is another thing you are ignoring. There are 0 precedents of masked "law enforcement" officers disappearing people from the streets and "mistakenly" deporting people in any country, including USA of 7 months ago, which is another thing you keep ignoring. Again, this is fine to you because you hate brown people so fuck them and fuck their due process.
2. oBlade:
You spend inordinate amount of time defending Trump and his policies, including the ones that are "gray area" and that were never used in the way that he's using them because you want to see brown people suffer, because you are, just like him a racist and a bad person.
I'm calling you a racist because you are a Tucker Carlson super-fan who spreads white replacement theory bullshit thinly veiled as "protecting sovereignty".
Also, just as a side note on your most hilarious and obvious omissions or non answers, SF school board voting = attack on sovereignty and lack of answering if you believe Trump's 2020 lies.
Both:
You guys should start a circus!
I told you, the executive already had the tools he needed, given to him by the legislature, under already existing laws. The point of bringing the legislature into it again was for the exact purpose of making a mess, not fixing the problem.
Things having no precedent are not illegal on that basis. I assume ICE is wearing masks to avoid doxxing. "Disappearing" people is primarily just another way to say "arrest" or "detain" things they are allowed to do. I'm already on record against deporting people to where they shouldn't go (although the government is not REQUIRED to deport people to their home country). Again it seems to be you don't want any enforcement at all. In LA, ICE got a warrant and executed on it. There was nothing underhanded in the raid so far as I'm aware. You are being (purposefully?) unclear here, I'm still left trying to figure out exactly what it is you are for or what you are at least ok with. While under some administrations it happens more or less than others, things like workplace raids are not illegal or unexpected.
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On June 12 2025 07:47 Jankisa wrote:I think it greatly depends on the topic. GH is an annoying cosplayer who is completely uninterested in having any sort of a real discussion because he thinks he's above it, all of us who engage in any realpolitk are morons who don't understand that his way is the only way and doing anything that he doesn't agree with is a big waste of time, ironically, he's not really doing anything so there's that. The split personality saga was so annoying that it might paint people here as overly aggressive and angry at him, to me, at least in this thread he's relatively benign, pushing his own little agendas and criticisms and living his best far leftie life. On the other hand, his takes in the Palestine and Ukraine threads are extremely obnoxious and aggravating. + Show Spoiler +oBlade is just a weird little dude who much like him thinks he's the only one who figured things out, in a really weird twist he gets most of his takes from Tucker Carlson who might be the most fake person in the history of media so there's that.
Also, as a personal pet peeve, oBlade thinks he's funny which makes him much worse. Also, fascist bootlicking.
Your emotionally lashing out with personal attacks is pretty standard around here.
There's actually a wide spectrum of ideas that I have mixed feelings about and would be thrilled to have a real discussion on. They just aren't really reformism/electoralism for reasons I've laid out at length. That said, no one wants to develop/contribute to the best plan for Democrats to win electorally anyway.
Lots of people here are better educated and probably more capable in a host of intellectual tasks than I am. We all literally think the politics we have are the best we can have (maybe you guys intentionally have shitty politics?).
I'm sure people have noticed I post significantly less than I did at my peak, in part, because I'm doing more in my communities that aren't TL. You guys can keep your little mean girl routine up as long as you'd like though.
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On June 12 2025 08:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 07:47 Jankisa wrote:I think it greatly depends on the topic. GH is an annoying cosplayer who is completely uninterested in having any sort of a real discussion because he thinks he's above it, all of us who engage in any realpolitk are morons who don't understand that his way is the only way and doing anything that he doesn't agree with is a big waste of time, ironically, he's not really doing anything so there's that. The split personality saga was so annoying that it might paint people here as overly aggressive and angry at him, to me, at least in this thread he's relatively benign, pushing his own little agendas and criticisms and living his best far leftie life. On the other hand, his takes in the Palestine and Ukraine threads are extremely obnoxious and aggravating. + Show Spoiler +oBlade is just a weird little dude who much like him thinks he's the only one who figured things out, in a really weird twist he gets most of his takes from Tucker Carlson who might be the most fake person in the history of media so there's that.
Also, as a personal pet peeve, oBlade thinks he's funny which makes him much worse. Also, fascist bootlicking. Your emotionally lashing out with personal attacks is pretty standard around here. There's actually a wide spectrum of ideas that I have mixed feelings about and would be thrilled to have a real discussion on. They just aren't really reformism/electoralism for reasons I've laid out at length. That said, no one wants to develop/contribute to the best plan for Democrats to win electorally anyway. Lots of people here are better educated and probably more capable in a host of intellectual tasks than I am. We all literally think the politics we have are the best we can have (maybe you guys intentionally have shitty politics?). I'm sure people have noticed I post significantly less than I did at my peak, in part, because I'm doing more in my communities that aren't TL. You guys can keep your little mean girl routine up as long as you'd like though.
People did not want to engage with you because no one likes inauthentic people. It did not matter the topic, that was a horrible train wreck of an idea and you should let it die and not remind people of it.
He is a good poster, brings his opinion, is willing to listen and respond. Even takes constructive feedback from people when it comes to him without malice. He is a good addition because you can have a differing view with him and no be attacked if you do not attack.
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Northern Ireland26035 Posts
On June 12 2025 08:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 07:47 Jankisa wrote:I think it greatly depends on the topic. GH is an annoying cosplayer who is completely uninterested in having any sort of a real discussion because he thinks he's above it, all of us who engage in any realpolitk are morons who don't understand that his way is the only way and doing anything that he doesn't agree with is a big waste of time, ironically, he's not really doing anything so there's that. The split personality saga was so annoying that it might paint people here as overly aggressive and angry at him, to me, at least in this thread he's relatively benign, pushing his own little agendas and criticisms and living his best far leftie life. On the other hand, his takes in the Palestine and Ukraine threads are extremely obnoxious and aggravating. + Show Spoiler +oBlade is just a weird little dude who much like him thinks he's the only one who figured things out, in a really weird twist he gets most of his takes from Tucker Carlson who might be the most fake person in the history of media so there's that.
Also, as a personal pet peeve, oBlade thinks he's funny which makes him much worse. Also, fascist bootlicking. Your emotionally lashing out with personal attacks is pretty standard around here. There's actually a wide spectrum of ideas that I have mixed feelings about and would be thrilled to have a real discussion on. They just aren't really reformism/electoralism for reasons I've laid out at length. That said, no one wants to develop/contribute to the best plan for Democrats to win electorally anyway. Lots of people here are better educated and probably more capable in a host of intellectual tasks than I am. We all literally think the politics we have are the best we can have (maybe you guys intentionally have shitty politics?). I'm sure people have noticed I post significantly less than I did at my peak, in part, because I'm doing more in my communities that aren't TL. You guys can keep your little mean girl routine up as long as you'd like though.
Discuss them then, nobody is stopping you.
I don’t especially disagree with your critiques of reformism at all. I think the problem with your ‘best plan’ is it’s not couched in reality. I’m more team Kwark on this. If Obamacare is too socialist for many, and you’ve voted in a Fascist strongman twice, then said nation to me would not be a prime candidate for me to flip to genuine left wing politics. I don’t think a polity can simultaneously be primed for a leftist revolution, while being Fascist-adjacent at the same time.
If attempts to do so keep on losing, then at some point one has to accept you’re a leftist living in an avowedly right wing country. If there’s some signs of the opposite, great maybe not.
Myself, I’m waiting for the dust to settle a bit. If leftist candidates start making inroads, even if they’re merely performing better than expected and don’t actually win, you’re getting some data that there’s some receptiveness there.
If they aren’t, consistently then I’d find it hard to argue that, at least pragmatically that it’s a good plan to pivot left.
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On June 12 2025 07:59 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 01:24 Jankisa wrote:
1. Introvert:
Re: The immigration bill.
I asked you why would a party and their leader that is actually motivated by fixing this problem not work it through legislature, as the founders have intended and you completely ignored it, for the, well, I lost count at this point. Then you went for some more hand wringing about civility.
The ICE raids have broken numerous laws, which is another thing you are ignoring. There are 0 precedents of masked "law enforcement" officers disappearing people from the streets and "mistakenly" deporting people in any country, including USA of 7 months ago, which is another thing you keep ignoring. Again, this is fine to you because you hate brown people so fuck them and fuck their due process.
2. oBlade:
You spend inordinate amount of time defending Trump and his policies, including the ones that are "gray area" and that were never used in the way that he's using them because you want to see brown people suffer, because you are, just like him a racist and a bad person.
I'm calling you a racist because you are a Tucker Carlson super-fan who spreads white replacement theory bullshit thinly veiled as "protecting sovereignty".
Also, just as a side note on your most hilarious and obvious omissions or non answers, SF school board voting = attack on sovereignty and lack of answering if you believe Trump's 2020 lies.
Both:
You guys should start a circus! I told you, the executive already had the tools he needed, given to him by the legislature, under already existing laws. The point of bringing the legislature into it again was for the exact purpose of making a mess, not fixing the problem. Things having no precedent are not illegal on that basis. I assume ICE is wearing masks to avoid doxxing. "Disappearing" people is primarily just another way to say "arrest" or "detain" things they are allowed to do. I'm already on record against deporting people to where they shouldn't go (although the government is not REQUIRED to deport people to their home country). Again it seems to be you don't want any enforcement at all. In LA, ICE got a warrant and executed on it. There was nothing underhanded in the raid so far as I'm aware. You are being (purposefully?) unclear here, I'm still left trying to figure out exactly what it is you are for or what you are at least ok with. While under some administrations it happens more or less than others, things like workplace raids are not illegal or unexpected.
I think it's clear and fair that trust has been frayed, if not broken entirely. Between cited incidents of ICE conducting illegal raids (last few pages of posts should have examples, though I've not personally vetted them) and the president insisting that nonexistent tattoos exist, it's reasonable to not trust that ICE is operating above board. If police in my neighborhood were known to arrest people without cause and sentence them without process, I too would mistrust the police and join in protest against them. If the police's response was to go masked and plainclothes, that would not help my suspicion.
I'm not against the police arresting people, but my hypothetical should show it's pretty easy to imagine scenarios I would be against the police arresting people. It seems those scenarios are happening in your country. Protesting that (with equivalent violence) seems reasonable to me, honestly.
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Northern Ireland26035 Posts
On June 12 2025 09:00 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 07:59 Introvert wrote:On June 12 2025 01:24 Jankisa wrote:
1. Introvert:
Re: The immigration bill.
I asked you why would a party and their leader that is actually motivated by fixing this problem not work it through legislature, as the founders have intended and you completely ignored it, for the, well, I lost count at this point. Then you went for some more hand wringing about civility.
The ICE raids have broken numerous laws, which is another thing you are ignoring. There are 0 precedents of masked "law enforcement" officers disappearing people from the streets and "mistakenly" deporting people in any country, including USA of 7 months ago, which is another thing you keep ignoring. Again, this is fine to you because you hate brown people so fuck them and fuck their due process.
2. oBlade:
You spend inordinate amount of time defending Trump and his policies, including the ones that are "gray area" and that were never used in the way that he's using them because you want to see brown people suffer, because you are, just like him a racist and a bad person.
I'm calling you a racist because you are a Tucker Carlson super-fan who spreads white replacement theory bullshit thinly veiled as "protecting sovereignty".
Also, just as a side note on your most hilarious and obvious omissions or non answers, SF school board voting = attack on sovereignty and lack of answering if you believe Trump's 2020 lies.
Both:
You guys should start a circus! I told you, the executive already had the tools he needed, given to him by the legislature, under already existing laws. The point of bringing the legislature into it again was for the exact purpose of making a mess, not fixing the problem. Things having no precedent are not illegal on that basis. I assume ICE is wearing masks to avoid doxxing. "Disappearing" people is primarily just another way to say "arrest" or "detain" things they are allowed to do. I'm already on record against deporting people to where they shouldn't go (although the government is not REQUIRED to deport people to their home country). Again it seems to be you don't want any enforcement at all. In LA, ICE got a warrant and executed on it. There was nothing underhanded in the raid so far as I'm aware. You are being (purposefully?) unclear here, I'm still left trying to figure out exactly what it is you are for or what you are at least ok with. While under some administrations it happens more or less than others, things like workplace raids are not illegal or unexpected. I think it's clear and fair that trust has been frayed, if not broken entirely. Between cited incidents of ICE conducting illegal raids (last few pages of posts should have examples, though I've not personally vetted them) and the president insisting that nonexistent tattoos exist, it's reasonable to not trust that ICE is operating above board. If police in my neighborhood were known to arrest people without cause and sentence them without process, I too would mistrust the police and join in protest against them. If the police's response was to go masked and plainclothes, that would not help my suspicion. I'm not against the police arresting people, but my hypothetical should show it's pretty easy to imagine scenarios I would be against the police arresting people. It seems those scenarios are happening in your country. Protesting that (with equivalent violence) seems reasonable to me, honestly.
You’ll still have some people who will innately distrust the police, but I broadly agree here.
In my country, policing is quite charged. Historically it was Protestant/British dominated, and in many meaningful ways biased against Catholics/Irish.
They’ve tried to shift that in the past few decades, and I’d say outside of extremes on each divide, largely managed it.
Some holdouts will never flip, as would no doubt be the case here. But if you don’t try, you’re never going to flip anyone.
In this example, you’ll have a cohort of people who innately oppose ICE on principle, and those who will give them carte blanche whatever.
I’d wager quite a lot of people occupy some kind of middle ground here. They’ve gotta exist in some capacity, but they need to operate within certain constraints.
Running around in masks, raids of seeming dubious legality etc don’t exactly help things here.
There are some concerns and perceptions that could be easily addressed, and I think see both better policing, as well as a better relationship between the public and that arm of law enforcement. Easily. It doesn’t solve all problems, it solves some.
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On June 12 2025 03:41 LightSpectra wrote:‘I can't fight back; I'm pregnant': U.S. citizen detained by ICE in Hawthorne We built a wholeass surveillance state just so ICE could abduct people for looking too Latino. Incidentally this is why everything is happening at breakneck speed. There's slim approval for mass deportations at the moment but the far-right is well aware that'll degrade as more incidents like this pile up.
ICE arrests two undocumented migrants for being in the country without authorization and a 3rd person who obstructed them during the arrests. Why is this newsworthy?
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"obstruction" she was nine months pregnant and telling them it was private property lmao. is asking for your lawyer also obstructing arrest? (Don't answer that, you know Bondi is going to affirm that with a Yes in the near future.)
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The problem with GH's "solutions", when he finally comes up to discuss them, end up being "yeah just burn the whole thing down and start from scratch" and the conversation never gets past how to actually reform or actually make the system better.
Hes not interested in the very real problems with things like policeing that makes it a job that ruins good people and enables bad people, he just wants to sit on his ivory tower and never get the mud of reality on his hands. Do you think if he gets a text to join a flash protest to an ICE raid, and finds that the hells angels are there to protest the raid as well, what will GH do? Hes not interested in learning about his local politics enough to know that slavery was on the ballot, and therefore couldn't fight for the issue. I went around my community to make sure the lottery take the state government gets is constitutionally mandated to go to nature initiatives, and my community is hella conservative.
Its a very real issue of leftism in America, the midwest actually got things done, organized well, won elections, and fought for reforms, only to get shit on by coastal leftists who were more than willing to burn everything down than compromise on their principles once. Good socialism is when you have a cabal of unelected technocrats with taxing authority running the economic development of your state. Its when you give free education on two year colleges. It's giving free health insurance to the poorest. Have you heard GH mention any of these things?
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On June 12 2025 09:52 LightSpectra wrote:
"obstruction" she was nine months pregnant and telling them it was private property lmao. is asking for your lawyer also obstructing arrest? (Don't answer that, you know Bondi is going to affirm that with a Yes in the near future.)
What's your argument? That the crime of obstruction can't be committed by very pregnant people or that blocking the officers from making an arrest doesn't constitute obstruction? I guess it doesn't matter. Either one is so ridiculous that it doesn't merit a response.
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On June 12 2025 10:03 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 09:52 LightSpectra wrote:
"obstruction" she was nine months pregnant and telling them it was private property lmao. is asking for your lawyer also obstructing arrest? (Don't answer that, you know Bondi is going to affirm that with a Yes in the near future.) What's your argument? That the crime of obstruction can't be committed by very pregnant people or that blocking the officers from making an arrest doesn't constitute obstruction? I guess it doesn't matter. Either one is so ridiculous that it doesn't merit a response.
Have you seen a woman who is nine months pregnant before? How much can she actually obstruct? What damage was done to the soon-to-be-born child in her womb?
Man if you can't see the problem with treating a woman whos nine months pregnant like that you've got issues man.
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The only obstruction was she told ICE they needed a warrant, so they detained her. The Constitution is a joke at this point.
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The news story says she confronted the officers and she was blocking the doors. If you get in between officers and someone they are trying to arrest you are obstructing them. It's fairly straightforward.
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Thoughts on the no kings rallies? Anyone attending?
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On June 12 2025 09:00 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2025 07:59 Introvert wrote:On June 12 2025 01:24 Jankisa wrote:
1. Introvert:
Re: The immigration bill.
I asked you why would a party and their leader that is actually motivated by fixing this problem not work it through legislature, as the founders have intended and you completely ignored it, for the, well, I lost count at this point. Then you went for some more hand wringing about civility.
The ICE raids have broken numerous laws, which is another thing you are ignoring. There are 0 precedents of masked "law enforcement" officers disappearing people from the streets and "mistakenly" deporting people in any country, including USA of 7 months ago, which is another thing you keep ignoring. Again, this is fine to you because you hate brown people so fuck them and fuck their due process.
2. oBlade:
You spend inordinate amount of time defending Trump and his policies, including the ones that are "gray area" and that were never used in the way that he's using them because you want to see brown people suffer, because you are, just like him a racist and a bad person.
I'm calling you a racist because you are a Tucker Carlson super-fan who spreads white replacement theory bullshit thinly veiled as "protecting sovereignty".
Also, just as a side note on your most hilarious and obvious omissions or non answers, SF school board voting = attack on sovereignty and lack of answering if you believe Trump's 2020 lies.
Both:
You guys should start a circus! I told you, the executive already had the tools he needed, given to him by the legislature, under already existing laws. The point of bringing the legislature into it again was for the exact purpose of making a mess, not fixing the problem. Things having no precedent are not illegal on that basis. I assume ICE is wearing masks to avoid doxxing. "Disappearing" people is primarily just another way to say "arrest" or "detain" things they are allowed to do. I'm already on record against deporting people to where they shouldn't go (although the government is not REQUIRED to deport people to their home country). Again it seems to be you don't want any enforcement at all. In LA, ICE got a warrant and executed on it. There was nothing underhanded in the raid so far as I'm aware. You are being (purposefully?) unclear here, I'm still left trying to figure out exactly what it is you are for or what you are at least ok with. While under some administrations it happens more or less than others, things like workplace raids are not illegal or unexpected. I think it's clear and fair that trust has been frayed, if not broken entirely. Between cited incidents of ICE conducting illegal raids (last few pages of posts should have examples, though I've not personally vetted them) and the president insisting that nonexistent tattoos exist, it's reasonable to not trust that ICE is operating above board. If police in my neighborhood were known to arrest people without cause and sentence them without process, I too would mistrust the police and join in protest against them. If the police's response was to go masked and plainclothes, that would not help my suspicion. I'm not against the police arresting people, but my hypothetical should show it's pretty easy to imagine scenarios I would be against the police arresting people. It seems those scenarios are happening in your country. Protesting that (with equivalent violence) seems reasonable to me, honestly.
Sure, Trump's not the most reliable or truthful person. But I also think some people would oppose any ICE action. Maybe part of it confusion and/or ignorance of what they were actually allowed to do (even if they don't do it very often or it's not publicized). And of course people should get all the protections the law entitles them too, but some people seem confused on that, too. Protesting for a change in the law, fine, destruction of property, not fine.
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United States43222 Posts
On June 12 2025 10:27 BlackJack wrote:
The news story says she confronted the officers and she was blocking the doors. If you get in between officers and someone they are trying to arrest you are obstructing them. It's fairly straightforward.
If the door is the entrance to a building and they have no warrant then she's not obstructing them because they have no right to enter the building in the first place.
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EPT
