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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On December 08 2024 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Did oblade just try to justify the American Healthcare insurance agency by saying it wasn't the holocaust?
oBlade tried to file a medical claim for some common sense, but sadly it was out-of-network.
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What good are rules if they apply only sometimes.
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On December 08 2024 00:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Did oblade just try to justify the American Healthcare insurance agency by saying it wasn't the holocaust? oBlade tried to file a medical claim for some common sense, but sadly it was out-of-network.
The stupidest facet of when leftists take the stance of being apologists for political violence and terrorism is not realizing that when push comes to shove they don't have a leg up in that world.
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On December 07 2024 23:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Your arguments are not very good, magic powers.
We have the rule of law to avoid people taking Justice into their own hands, and to avoid that everyone who think someone else is terrible just go and kill them. Today it’s an evil CEO, tomorrow it’s a presidential candidate, or a journalist or whoever.
That guy was awful, but if we start cheering on people getting gunned down, we are no longer living in a civilized society, we are living in a war. Liberal democracy is based on the idea that we coexist, argue, fight, and debate within a frame and that we don’t just eliminate each other. There are other ways of addressing corporate greed and healthcare that butchering the bad guy, even if that’s a very American thing to do.
This argument falls apart when the Health insurance industry spends millions and millions to block any kind of reform effort to fix the healthcare system in this country.
They have bought the lawmakers to keep themselves in power. There's no legal or legitimate way to fight them in this country anymore.
The very fact that this is being so celebrated on both sides of the political aisle just tells you how much anger there is towards the health insurance industry in this country. If there's so much anger why isn't anything being done about it in Washington? The public support is clearly there. You'd have a hard time finding an American who DOESN'T have a horror story about dealing with health insurance companies. But because they've spent more money than the poor and middle class people of this country can ever match to keep the system broken so it benefits them.
It doesn't matter who you vote for, Republican or Democrat, both parties take HUGE sums of campaign contributions from them. Any candidate that garners popular support speaking about these issues gets blackballed from their party.
The public's faith that anything that can resolved legally and peacefully at the legislative level on this issue is gone. So now we're cheering for vigilantes. The very fact we are cheering for this vigilante is proof that the legal system in this area has failed. There should NEVER be such a unanimous approval of a crime like this. The fact that there is, tells you that something critical has failed in our political system. And if politicians will not fix it, someone else will step in the void to do what they won't.
That's how it works. Across history that's ALWAYS how it has worked. Politicians need to hear full well how much anger there is on this topic and they need to act on it. If they won't, more people will follow this guy's example.
It happened in France after all. You guys should know better than anyone, what happens when people's faith in the government erodes.
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On December 08 2024 00:29 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 00:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 08 2024 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Did oblade just try to justify the American Healthcare insurance agency by saying it wasn't the holocaust? oBlade tried to file a medical claim for some common sense, but sadly it was out-of-network. The stupidest facet of when leftists take the stance of being apologists for political violence and terrorism is not realizing that when push comes to shove they don't have a leg up in that world.
The elite is already ruining our lives. It'll get worse, don't worry about it. You're on their list, too. You just don't know it yet.
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Oblade everything you say about private insurance covering more people and allowing less people to be left in the cold could be handled with single payer/medicare for all with negotiaton to enter the US market.
We negotiate as a single block to get the best price for everyone. You want access to the US market, this is our rate. It would be cheaper for everyone. This already happens on a small scale between insurance companies and healthcare networks. Whoever has leverage (ie more customers or a more popular service/geographic monopoly) gets better rates.
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United States43821 Posts
On December 08 2024 00:18 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2024 23:57 KwarK wrote:On December 07 2024 20:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
For the people supporting this, feel like compiling a list of jobs/positions in companies that are bad enough to justify being shot for doing?
*note that i recognize that being indifferent (this was just one guy being murdered and 170k people die every day and many of those deaths are certainly more tragic than this one) is an entirely different beast from being supportive.
I’ll play. HR people/company lawyers/religious elders that target the victims of sexual abuse for coming forwards rather than the perpetrators can get on the list. Corrupt cops. Police union chiefs who protect corrupt cops which, as I understand it, is all of them. Essentially the problem is the perverse incentives of capitalism. What we want is the profit motive to encourage a company to minimize their sexual harassment by applying penalties to companies doing sexual harassment. The big brain play is to not hire sexual predators and to have a strong culture against them. The galaxy brain play is to not get caught. What we want is a profit motive to drive insurance companies to provide medicine at the lowest cost. The big brain play is bulk buying, cost effectiveness studies etc. The galaxy brain play is to switch the medicine out with low cost sugar pills. Has the whole world gone CRAZY!?!? AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE RULES?!?! It’s not Nam, Kwark, there are rules.
Sure, and the shooters can be prosecuted under the rules. All I'm saying is that if one of those gets shot then I'm going to understand.
It's consistent with what I've previously said about how the rules on proper conduct aren't there to protect us from abuse, they're to protect those in power from what happens when there is unchecked improper conduct. The solution to removing someone from a lifetime SCOTUS appointment is literally in the description. The flipside of "don't be a SCOTUS and take bribes" is "don't force someone to deal with that problem". When Thomas decides that there's technically no rule against taking bribes then he's making the mistake of assuming that the rules will protect him when all that protected his position was the belief in a just system, something that he invalidated.
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United States43821 Posts
On December 08 2024 00:29 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 00:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 08 2024 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Did oblade just try to justify the American Healthcare insurance agency by saying it wasn't the holocaust? oBlade tried to file a medical claim for some common sense, but sadly it was out-of-network. The stupidest facet of when leftists take the stance of being apologists for political violence and terrorism is not realizing that when push comes to shove they don't have a leg up in that world.
The USSR/PRC were never bad at political violence. It's liberals that are committed to order. The extreme left have always felt that the social fabric was never worth protecting and that a better world could be built in the ashes.
There are tens of millions of ghosts who will testify that to how not squeamish the left is. This is not a good thing, but it is a thing.
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On December 08 2024 00:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 00:29 oBlade wrote:On December 08 2024 00:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 08 2024 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Did oblade just try to justify the American Healthcare insurance agency by saying it wasn't the holocaust? oBlade tried to file a medical claim for some common sense, but sadly it was out-of-network. The stupidest facet of when leftists take the stance of being apologists for political violence and terrorism is not realizing that when push comes to shove they don't have a leg up in that world. The USSR/PRC were never bad at political violence. It's liberals that are committed to order. The extreme left have always felt that the social fabric was never worth protecting and that a better world could be built in the ashes. There are tens of millions of ghosts who will testify that to how not squeamish the left is. This is not a good thing, but it is a thing.
If the 'extreme left' never got to the point where they felt like 'the social fabric' was not worth protecting, we'd still be building pyramids for the pharaoh.
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On December 07 2024 23:44 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2024 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 07 2024 06:51 BlackJack wrote:
What if we find out the assassin is actually GH who was spurred on by all of Kwark's badgering that he's a wanna-be revolutionary and he needs to man up and take action Wouldn't be enough for Kwark to stop anyway. His petulance isn't rational. It absolutely would be. If you took direct action I would stop accusing you of not taking direct action. + Show Spoiler + My issue is that you exist in a nonexistent sweet spot where you’ve given up on elections but you’ve also not committed to actually taking power outside of elections. It’s a spot that does less than anyone but insists that doing nothing is a virtue.
Mmhmm... Are you familiar with any other direct action besides shooting and blowing people up?
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On December 08 2024 00:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2024 23:54 Magic Powers wrote:On December 07 2024 23:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Your arguments are not very good, magic powers.
We have the rule of law to avoid people taking Justice into their own hands, and to avoid that everyone who think someone else is terrible just go and kill them. Today it’s an evil CEO, tomorrow it’s a presidential candidate, or a journalist or whoever.
That guy was awful, but if we start cheering on people getting gunned down, we are no longer living in a civilized society, we are living in a war. Liberal democracy is based on the idea that we coexist, argue, fight, and debate within a frame and that we don’t just eliminate each other. There are other ways of addressing corporate greed and healthcare that butchering the bad guy, even if that’s a very American thing to do. The rule of law has not prevented UnitedHealth from mass murdering people. The rule of law has failed and a correction was made. This also puts UH into the spotlight and millions of people who previously weren't aware of the mass murder are now aware of it, so something might be done to prevent it. There's a reasonable chance now, when before there was no chance. The idea that these assassinations are gonna spiral out of control if we cheer for one instance is unsubstantiated. If anything, CEOs are nowhere near scared enough. Ok but then you are saying we are in a civil war, and we give up on pretending we are in a liberal democracy. Everyone takes his gun and go shoot the perceived enemy. I am not really ready or willing to live a civil war quite yet personally.
Your opinion should not be controversial. The rule of law is one of the primary things that separates Western liberal democracies from authoritarian countries. It's essential to build and maintain inclusive institutions as opposed to the extractive institutions of authoritarian countries. That it's even a point of discussion says a lot about the state of the thread.
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United States43821 Posts
On December 08 2024 01:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2024 23:44 KwarK wrote:On December 07 2024 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 07 2024 06:51 BlackJack wrote:
What if we find out the assassin is actually GH who was spurred on by all of Kwark's badgering that he's a wanna-be revolutionary and he needs to man up and take action Wouldn't be enough for Kwark to stop anyway. His petulance isn't rational. It absolutely would be. If you took direct action I would stop accusing you of not taking direct action. + Show Spoiler + My issue is that you exist in a nonexistent sweet spot where you’ve given up on elections but you’ve also not committed to actually taking power outside of elections. It’s a spot that does less than anyone but insists that doing nothing is a virtue. Mmhmm... Are you familiar with any other direct action besides shooting and blowing people up?
Who wins?
1. MLK with a following of millions.
2. A man with a shooty stick.
How is MLK's quest to dismantle economic imperialism and exploitative capitalism going? Well? But at least people still remember that that was at the heart of his message, right?
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On December 08 2024 01:02 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 00:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 07 2024 23:54 Magic Powers wrote:On December 07 2024 23:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Your arguments are not very good, magic powers.
We have the rule of law to avoid people taking Justice into their own hands, and to avoid that everyone who think someone else is terrible just go and kill them. Today it’s an evil CEO, tomorrow it’s a presidential candidate, or a journalist or whoever.
That guy was awful, but if we start cheering on people getting gunned down, we are no longer living in a civilized society, we are living in a war. Liberal democracy is based on the idea that we coexist, argue, fight, and debate within a frame and that we don’t just eliminate each other. There are other ways of addressing corporate greed and healthcare that butchering the bad guy, even if that’s a very American thing to do. The rule of law has not prevented UnitedHealth from mass murdering people. The rule of law has failed and a correction was made. This also puts UH into the spotlight and millions of people who previously weren't aware of the mass murder are now aware of it, so something might be done to prevent it. There's a reasonable chance now, when before there was no chance. The idea that these assassinations are gonna spiral out of control if we cheer for one instance is unsubstantiated. If anything, CEOs are nowhere near scared enough. Ok but then you are saying we are in a civil war, and we give up on pretending we are in a liberal democracy. Everyone takes his gun and go shoot the perceived enemy. I am not really ready or willing to live a civil war quite yet personally. Your opinion should not be controversial. The rule of law is one of the primary things that separates Western liberal democracies from authoritarian countries. It's essential to build and maintain inclusive institutions as opposed to the extractive institutions of authoritarian countries. That it's even a point of discussion says a lot about the state of the thread. It isn't though.Trump/Israel are demonstrative of this fact.
On December 08 2024 01:07 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 01:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 07 2024 23:44 KwarK wrote:On December 07 2024 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 07 2024 06:51 BlackJack wrote:
What if we find out the assassin is actually GH who was spurred on by all of Kwark's badgering that he's a wanna-be revolutionary and he needs to man up and take action Wouldn't be enough for Kwark to stop anyway. His petulance isn't rational. It absolutely would be. If you took direct action I would stop accusing you of not taking direct action. + Show Spoiler + My issue is that you exist in a nonexistent sweet spot where you’ve given up on elections but you’ve also not committed to actually taking power outside of elections. It’s a spot that does less than anyone but insists that doing nothing is a virtue. Mmhmm... Are you familiar with any other direct action besides shooting and blowing people up? Who wins? 1. MLK with a following of millions. 2. A man with a shooty stick. How is MLK's quest to dismantle economic imperialism and exploitative capitalism going? Well? But at least people still remember that that was at the heart of his message, right?
Is that a no?
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On December 08 2024 00:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2024 23:54 Magic Powers wrote:On December 07 2024 23:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Your arguments are not very good, magic powers.
We have the rule of law to avoid people taking Justice into their own hands, and to avoid that everyone who think someone else is terrible just go and kill them. Today it’s an evil CEO, tomorrow it’s a presidential candidate, or a journalist or whoever.
That guy was awful, but if we start cheering on people getting gunned down, we are no longer living in a civilized society, we are living in a war. Liberal democracy is based on the idea that we coexist, argue, fight, and debate within a frame and that we don’t just eliminate each other. There are other ways of addressing corporate greed and healthcare that butchering the bad guy, even if that’s a very American thing to do. The rule of law has not prevented UnitedHealth from mass murdering people. The rule of law has failed and a correction was made. This also puts UH into the spotlight and millions of people who previously weren't aware of the mass murder are now aware of it, so something might be done to prevent it. There's a reasonable chance now, when before there was no chance. The idea that these assassinations are gonna spiral out of control if we cheer for one instance is unsubstantiated. If anything, CEOs are nowhere near scared enough. Ok but then you are saying we are in a civil war, and we give up on pretending we are in a liberal democracy. Everyone takes his gun and go shoot the perceived enemy. I am not really ready or willing to live a civil war quite yet personally.
I mean, I'd suspect this isn't the first time you've been introduced to the following idea, or am I mistaken? The idea that many members of the elite have been fighting against the people for a very long time. Killing thousands, even millions of people for the sake of profit. For "productivity". For another house and a car. And then for another house and another car. Kill a hundred people, receive a bigger paycheck. Is this idea foreign to you? I've already understood this during the days when I was yet too blue-eyed to understand why capitalism isn't all its cracked up to be. It just took me a while to realize that things don't have to be this way and that something can actually be done about it. That people don't actually have to die and suffer for profit. I thought the world was big fish vs small fish for all eternity. That's a big part of the capitalist mindset.
So I guess this assassination opens people's eyes to this realization. That this is how it is. But that it doesn't have to be this way.
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The teamliquid proletariat is growing impatient and militant. It is no longer enough to curse the bourgeouisie in mutterings hidden under thick mustaches. They wear goatees and wield guns now, and demand the prompt execution of the enemies of the working class while explaining to the general public that they aren‘t trained assassins. Their idol‘s busts haphazardly hidden under makeshift coverings in their libraries.
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On December 08 2024 01:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 01:02 RvB wrote:On December 08 2024 00:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 07 2024 23:54 Magic Powers wrote:On December 07 2024 23:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Your arguments are not very good, magic powers.
We have the rule of law to avoid people taking Justice into their own hands, and to avoid that everyone who think someone else is terrible just go and kill them. Today it’s an evil CEO, tomorrow it’s a presidential candidate, or a journalist or whoever.
That guy was awful, but if we start cheering on people getting gunned down, we are no longer living in a civilized society, we are living in a war. Liberal democracy is based on the idea that we coexist, argue, fight, and debate within a frame and that we don’t just eliminate each other. There are other ways of addressing corporate greed and healthcare that butchering the bad guy, even if that’s a very American thing to do. The rule of law has not prevented UnitedHealth from mass murdering people. The rule of law has failed and a correction was made. This also puts UH into the spotlight and millions of people who previously weren't aware of the mass murder are now aware of it, so something might be done to prevent it. There's a reasonable chance now, when before there was no chance. The idea that these assassinations are gonna spiral out of control if we cheer for one instance is unsubstantiated. If anything, CEOs are nowhere near scared enough. Ok but then you are saying we are in a civil war, and we give up on pretending we are in a liberal democracy. Everyone takes his gun and go shoot the perceived enemy. I am not really ready or willing to live a civil war quite yet personally. Your opinion should not be controversial. The rule of law is one of the primary things that separates Western liberal democracies from authoritarian countries. It's essential to build and maintain inclusive institutions as opposed to the extractive institutions of authoritarian countries. That it's even a point of discussion says a lot about the state of the thread. It isn't though.Trump/Israel are demonstrative of this fact. Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 01:07 KwarK wrote:On December 08 2024 01:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 07 2024 23:44 KwarK wrote:On December 07 2024 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 07 2024 06:51 BlackJack wrote:
What if we find out the assassin is actually GH who was spurred on by all of Kwark's badgering that he's a wanna-be revolutionary and he needs to man up and take action Wouldn't be enough for Kwark to stop anyway. His petulance isn't rational. It absolutely would be. If you took direct action I would stop accusing you of not taking direct action. + Show Spoiler + My issue is that you exist in a nonexistent sweet spot where you’ve given up on elections but you’ve also not committed to actually taking power outside of elections. It’s a spot that does less than anyone but insists that doing nothing is a virtue. Mmhmm... Are you familiar with any other direct action besides shooting and blowing people up? Who wins? 1. MLK with a following of millions. 2. A man with a shooty stick. How is MLK's quest to dismantle economic imperialism and exploitative capitalism going? Well? But at least people still remember that that was at the heart of his message, right? Is that a no?
No Israel and Trump aren't demonstrative of this fact. The opposite in fact. Their conduct would be much worse without the constrains put on them by our societies. It's not even close to authoritarian countries like China and Russia. Your criticism rings pretty hollow considering your apologism for Putin and Maduro.
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I find it really funny that draining the swamp apparently meant hiring as many lobbyists as possible into the administration. Has anyone every hire more? I'm sure these are the "good" lobbyists though...
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On December 08 2024 01:43 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 01:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 08 2024 01:02 RvB wrote:On December 08 2024 00:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 07 2024 23:54 Magic Powers wrote:On December 07 2024 23:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Your arguments are not very good, magic powers.
We have the rule of law to avoid people taking Justice into their own hands, and to avoid that everyone who think someone else is terrible just go and kill them. Today it’s an evil CEO, tomorrow it’s a presidential candidate, or a journalist or whoever.
That guy was awful, but if we start cheering on people getting gunned down, we are no longer living in a civilized society, we are living in a war. Liberal democracy is based on the idea that we coexist, argue, fight, and debate within a frame and that we don’t just eliminate each other. There are other ways of addressing corporate greed and healthcare that butchering the bad guy, even if that’s a very American thing to do. The rule of law has not prevented UnitedHealth from mass murdering people. The rule of law has failed and a correction was made. This also puts UH into the spotlight and millions of people who previously weren't aware of the mass murder are now aware of it, so something might be done to prevent it. There's a reasonable chance now, when before there was no chance. The idea that these assassinations are gonna spiral out of control if we cheer for one instance is unsubstantiated. If anything, CEOs are nowhere near scared enough. Ok but then you are saying we are in a civil war, and we give up on pretending we are in a liberal democracy. Everyone takes his gun and go shoot the perceived enemy. I am not really ready or willing to live a civil war quite yet personally. Your opinion should not be controversial. The rule of law is one of the primary things that separates Western liberal democracies from authoritarian countries. It's essential to build and maintain inclusive institutions as opposed to the extractive institutions of authoritarian countries. That it's even a point of discussion says a lot about the state of the thread. It isn't though.Trump/Israel are demonstrative of this fact. On December 08 2024 01:07 KwarK wrote:On December 08 2024 01:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 07 2024 23:44 KwarK wrote:On December 07 2024 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 07 2024 06:51 BlackJack wrote:
What if we find out the assassin is actually GH who was spurred on by all of Kwark's badgering that he's a wanna-be revolutionary and he needs to man up and take action Wouldn't be enough for Kwark to stop anyway. His petulance isn't rational. It absolutely would be. If you took direct action I would stop accusing you of not taking direct action. + Show Spoiler + My issue is that you exist in a nonexistent sweet spot where you’ve given up on elections but you’ve also not committed to actually taking power outside of elections. It’s a spot that does less than anyone but insists that doing nothing is a virtue. Mmhmm... Are you familiar with any other direct action besides shooting and blowing people up? Who wins? 1. MLK with a following of millions. 2. A man with a shooty stick. How is MLK's quest to dismantle economic imperialism and exploitative capitalism going? Well? But at least people still remember that that was at the heart of his message, right? Is that a no? No Israel and Trump aren't demonstrative of this fact. The opposite in fact. Their conduct would be much worse without the constrains put on them by our societies. It's not even close to authoritarian countries like China and Russia. + Show Spoiler +Your criticism rings pretty hollow considering your apologism for Putin and Maduro.
China and Russia would also potentially be worse without the constraints put on them by our societies. That's not a distinguishing feature of liberal democracies.
So yeah, they are demonstrative of the fact that "the rule of law" is NOT one of the primary things that separates Western liberal democracies from authoritarian countries
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On December 08 2024 01:02 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 00:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 07 2024 23:54 Magic Powers wrote:On December 07 2024 23:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Your arguments are not very good, magic powers.
We have the rule of law to avoid people taking Justice into their own hands, and to avoid that everyone who think someone else is terrible just go and kill them. Today it’s an evil CEO, tomorrow it’s a presidential candidate, or a journalist or whoever.
That guy was awful, but if we start cheering on people getting gunned down, we are no longer living in a civilized society, we are living in a war. Liberal democracy is based on the idea that we coexist, argue, fight, and debate within a frame and that we don’t just eliminate each other. There are other ways of addressing corporate greed and healthcare that butchering the bad guy, even if that’s a very American thing to do. The rule of law has not prevented UnitedHealth from mass murdering people. The rule of law has failed and a correction was made. This also puts UH into the spotlight and millions of people who previously weren't aware of the mass murder are now aware of it, so something might be done to prevent it. There's a reasonable chance now, when before there was no chance. The idea that these assassinations are gonna spiral out of control if we cheer for one instance is unsubstantiated. If anything, CEOs are nowhere near scared enough. Ok but then you are saying we are in a civil war, and we give up on pretending we are in a liberal democracy. Everyone takes his gun and go shoot the perceived enemy. I am not really ready or willing to live a civil war quite yet personally. Your opinion should not be controversial. The rule of law is one of the primary things that separates Western liberal democracies from authoritarian countries. It's essential to build and maintain inclusive institutions as opposed to the extractive institutions of authoritarian countries. That it's even a point of discussion says a lot about the state of the thread. I think it says a lot about the state of the world and the growing discontent among the population that the systems are no longer functioning as they should and exist to protect the rich, rather then the weak.
We see this in elections (almost) everywhere with the voters rapidly veering towards whoever is perceived to be an outsider. Because the 'in' are the problem and voters no longer believe that voting for them will actually lead to things getting fixed.
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EPT
