EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4642
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Byo
Canada209 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14023 Posts
The guy is responsible for widespread deaths and suffering, presiding over the highest rejection rate for treatment. His company didn't even have the empathy of canceling the meeting he was going to or delay the announcement it wasn't going to fund the anesthesia of a surgery that went over its expected time. You should expect people return the attitude you give them. It's why no one gave a shit when trump almost got assassinated. It's why the guy who assassinated Abe in Japan got everything he wanted from the act. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4928 Posts
You don't need to publicly celebrate people dying is all I'm saying. That he was an active force of wealth extraction to the detriment of human health, sure, or at least played a part in it. But if the rules weren't so geared towards playing the game like this, it would happen less. I'm convinced if Belgium was a hyper capitalist shit hole we'd have the same circumstances. Luckily, we've socialized quite a while ago. | ||
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brian
United States9628 Posts
On December 06 2024 23:34 Uldridge wrote: Yeah Serm, people so didn't care about Trump being shot at that he became president. You don't need to publicly celebrate people dying is all I'm saying. That he was an active force of wealth extraction to the detriment of human health, sure, or at least played a part in it. But if the rules weren't so geared towards playing the game like this, it would happen less. I'm convinced if Belgium was a hyper capitalist shit hole we'd have the same circumstances. Luckily, we've socialized quite a while ago. an excellent point, but the people most profiting from the game have little incentive to change the rules. if more ruthless capitalists start lead injections suddenly there’s an external incentive that trumps greed. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9708 Posts
Try explaining to shareholders that they could be making more money, but you'd have to harm alot of people so you won't do it. See how that goes down. Its not like the next CEO is all of a sudden going to put human well being above profit. Its cliche now, but what Carlin said was correct. This system only cares about humans until they're born. | ||
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brian
United States9628 Posts
On December 06 2024 23:41 Jockmcplop wrote: Its like I said, as CEO of that company he had no choice but to do what he did. Try explaining to shareholders that they could be making more money, but you'd have to harm alot of people so you won't do it. See how that goes down. Its not like the next CEO is all of a sudden going to put human well being above profit. that’s nonsense. if we could raise his corpse from the grave and ask if he’d do it all over again, surely he says no. | ||
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Vivax
22068 Posts
On December 06 2024 23:43 brian wrote: that’s nonsense. if we could raise his corpse from the grave and ask if he’d do it all over again, surely he says no. I thought that answer applied to everyone. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11588 Posts
On December 06 2024 23:41 Jockmcplop wrote: Its like I said, as CEO of that company he had no choice but to do what he did. Try explaining to shareholders that they could be making more money, but you'd have to harm alot of people so you won't do it. See how that goes down. Its not like the next CEO is all of a sudden going to put human well being above profit. Its cliche now, but what Carlin said was correct. This system only cares about humans until they're born. That is insane. You can just not take the job. Or behave like a human being and get fired. Or whatever. No one forces you to harm people for profit. It is possible to make ethical decisions, especially regarding your own actions. Some people just choose not to for personal gain. As a German, i cannot accept that kind of "I had no choice, i was just following orders/the rules" as an excuse for horrific behaviour. Else working at Auschwitz would also have been completely fine. After all, they were just following the law and the orders given to them. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4928 Posts
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oBlade
United States5740 Posts
Every revolutionary psychopath celebrating this, intimating this is progress, or implying this should happen more or be threatened to - is completely lost - every single "argument" in favor of assassinating this person can be copy and pasted to support the assassination of Obama or Biden or hundreds of others. Civilized people have realized you do not make progress in an environment where people assassinate each other, you simply select for people good at assassinating, which doesn't tend to lead society in a good direction, which is why we instead rationally select against assassination. Speaking of Obama, the people who scoffed at the idea Obamacare would result in "death panels" would be the ones cheering this guy being excuted for being part of an insurance company... under Obamacare. But any case of a judicial killing or self-defense or punishing a criminal is despotic fascist overreach, we need to be lenient and sympathetic when it comes to crime, except when guillotining the bourgeoisie. Sure. There was not one single post here about this guy or the alleged issues of United Healthcare before he got shot. This is how much people cared about the Stalinesque figure of healthcare genocide. Because they realized one day that the world isn't perfect, sick people die, and not everyone gets treatment that they need or don't need. Nobody knew who the fuck he was but the Daily Show communists are immediately able to know enough about everything to conclude hanging a CEO, of course, that must always be a good thing. There are thousands of people dying waiting in the UK and Canada. There are thousands more in Canada that simply get killed instead of waiting. Want to switch to universal healthcare so you can switch to assassinating public figures in government responsible for that instead of people near the top of large companies? Because if you put the government in charge and change the name to "universal" that automatically means there's unlimited free resources for everyone who wants them - right? - whoops, no, it's still the same doctors and same hospitals servicing the same population. Completely absurd and anyone espousing any support for this murder should be permanently disenfranchised and sent somewhere where psychologists can study what went wrong to cause them to get such assbackwards perspectives. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11588 Posts
On December 07 2024 00:00 Uldridge wrote: That's not insane, that's anti social personality disorder. The feeling of sympathy or empathy is literally alien to them. I mean that the argument is insane. "I was just following orders" doesn't work when doing horrific crimes against mankind. There was not one single post here about this guy or the alleged issues of United Healthcare before he got shot. This is how much people cared about the Stalinesque figure of healthcare genocide. Because they realized one day that the world isn't perfect, sick people die, and not everyone gets treatment that they need or don't need. Nobody knew who the fuck he was but the Daily Show communists are immediately able to know enough about everything to conclude hanging a CEO, of course, that must always be a good thing. I made a lot of posts about US healthcare being shitty in general. Sorry that i didn't talk about this specific guy and this specific company. | ||
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oBlade
United States5740 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23412 Posts
On December 06 2024 23:57 Simberto wrote: That is insane. You can just not take the job. Or behave like a human being and get fired. Or whatever. No one forces you to harm people for profit. It is possible to make ethical decisions, especially regarding your own actions. Some people just choose not to for personal gain. As a German, i cannot accept that kind of "I had no choice, i was just following orders/the rules" as an excuse for horrific behaviour. Else working at Auschwitz would also have been completely fine. After all, they were just following the law and the orders given to them. You have to remember that libs/Dems don't have that line. They would work at Auschwitz while rationalizing it as "lesser evil harm reduction". Don't be surprised to see them working Trump's concentration camps soon enough. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4928 Posts
On December 07 2024 00:06 GreenHorizons wrote: You have to remember that libs/Dems don't have that line. They would work at Auschwitz while rationalizing it as "lesser evil harm reduction". Don't be surprised to see them working Trump's concentration camps soon enough. The great slippery slope downward. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11588 Posts
On December 07 2024 00:07 Uldridge wrote: Personally I think the entire idea behind insurance - at least privatized - is a crime against humanity (just like commercials are), but hey, money gonna money. Some insurances are reasonable to have as an institution, even from private companies. (As long as they are reglemented in such a way that they cannot just fuck you over instead of paying out). But healthcare isn't one of those. Spreading the risk of a low occurence, high risk event onto a lot of people is a useful service, and the people providing that service need to be paid for it. But that doesn't work with a system like healthcare. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4928 Posts
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Vivax
22068 Posts
On December 07 2024 00:07 Uldridge wrote: Personally I think the entire idea behind insurance - at least privatized - is a crime against humanity (just like commercials are), but hey, money gonna money. The great slippery slope downward. The difference between US and EU is that the US printing press bails out private companies owned by super rich entities while EU social security systems can get bailed out in favour of the citizens. I might be paying relatively high taxes but at least I don‘t need to insure everything in private. Especially healthcare. SoCiaLiSm | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9708 Posts
On December 06 2024 23:57 Simberto wrote: That is insane. You can just not take the job. Or behave like a human being and get fired. Or whatever. No one forces you to harm people for profit. It is possible to make ethical decisions, especially regarding your own actions. Some people just choose not to for personal gain. As a German, i cannot accept that kind of "I had no choice, i was just following orders/the rules" as an excuse for horrific behaviour. Else working at Auschwitz would also have been completely fine. After all, they were just following the law and the orders given to them. I said the words 'as CEO' Everyone immediately jumps down my throat and says he could not take the job, quit or refuse to do his job, all of which make him not a CEO. Engage brains, then reply, people. I agree with the insanity of the situation. The whole of US healthcare is insane. Shooting a CEO doesn't fix it, because the next guy will do the same thing. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On December 06 2024 16:20 Introvert wrote: That's right, this guy is comparable to Stalin. No I don't have sympathy for Stalin, but guy isn't even in that universe and your post is just another disturbing one to add to the pile. I guess sometimes it's good to have a reminder that there are people, often on the left, that view actual violence against people they hate (like punch-a-nazi) as ok or understandable then call speech they don't like "stochastic terrorism." Edit: most of the people posting this stuff probably oppose the death penalty too I only personally oppose it because miscarriages of justice happen, but I view it as morally reasonable in a vacuum for certain categories of crimes. Some on the left think old-fashioned violence is a legitimate part of the toolkit, some do not. So a charge specifically of hypocrisy will only land on one of those cohorts, but they’re frequently conflated. Stochastic terrorism is a thing, it doesn’t need quotation marks. If one doesn’t believe in the concept, there’d be no problem with left Dems taking this story and saying things like ‘eat the rich’ would there? I recognise it hasn’t historically been you denying such phenomena in here. Equally I think for many it’s a lack of sympathy for a thing that happened, versus a particular call for assassinations of such figures. One may find it ghoulish, fair enough. But it’s more a shrug of the shoulders in most quarters than a call to further violence. Such an appetite also does exist but it feels a somewhat small minority position. I still feel for the pain and loss of his nearest and dearest, but as someone who is very detached, I just can’t feel much further sympathy for someone who lived a luxurious life on top of a system I find fundamentally exploitative and inhumane. I’d be bullshitting for the sake of decorum to claim otherwise, and as my ma has said for decades ‘you’re a pain in the arse but you are honest’ so I’m sticking with that | ||
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brian
United States9628 Posts
On December 07 2024 00:01 oBlade wrote: If we could raise corpses from the grave, healthcare would be moot. Every revolutionary psychopath celebrating this, intimating this is progress, or implying this should happen more or be threatened to - is completely lost - every single "argument" in favor of assassinating this person can be copy and pasted to support the assassination of Obama or Biden or hundreds of others. Civilized people have realized you do not make progress in an environment where people assassinate each other, you simply select for people good at assassinating, which doesn't tend to lead society in a good direction, which is why we instead rationally select against assassination. Speaking of Obama, the people who scoffed at the idea Obamacare would result in "death panels" would be the ones cheering this guy being excuted for being part of an insurance company... under Obamacare. But any case of a judicial killing or self-defense or punishing a criminal is despotic fascist overreach, we need to be lenient and sympathetic when it comes to crime, except when guillotining the bourgeoisie. Sure. There was not one single post here about this guy or the alleged issues of United Healthcare before he got shot. This is how much people cared about the Stalinesque figure of healthcare genocide. Because they realized one day that the world isn't perfect, sick people die, and not everyone gets treatment that they need or don't need. Nobody knew who the fuck he was but the Daily Show communists are immediately able to know enough about everything to conclude hanging a CEO, of course, that must always be a good thing. There are thousands of people dying waiting in the UK and Canada. There are thousands more in Canada that simply get killed instead of waiting. Want to switch to universal healthcare so you can switch to assassinating public figures in government responsible for that instead of people near the top of large companies? Because if you put the government in charge and change the name to "universal" that automatically means there's unlimited free resources for everyone who wants them - right? - whoops, no, it's still the same doctors and same hospitals servicing the same population. Completely absurd and anyone espousing any support for this murder should be permanently disenfranchised and sent somewhere where psychologists can study what went wrong to cause them to get such assbackwards perspectives. yea, why should we set the bar at only having the same healthcare failures as other developed countries when we can also inject the additional hurdle of extracting billions in profits at the expense of our citizens health into the mix. That’s America baby! unrelated, anyone got any boots that need cleaning? insinuating that people die all over and that it has nothing to do with the billions of dollars being extracted as a result is ridiculous, its so ridiculous that i refuse to believe you are missing it by accident. in many cases it is a direct result. as you almost correctly point out, not in all cases. but in more than zero cases, where that number should be. morally im on the fence about this guy getting killed. i’m not on the fence about saying this shouldn’t become a trend. targeted individual assassinations aren’t exactly my ideal revolution. | ||
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