EPT1. He is an idiot and a disgrace to America.
2. The media is biased against him.
These two can be both true at the same time.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 464
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
1. He is an idiot and a disgrace to America. 2. The media is biased against him. These two can be both true at the same time. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On July 14 2018 00:34 gobbledydook wrote: If you are politically biased against someone you are investigating for a crime, and you admitted as much in the texts that you sent using a work phone, then I don't see why it isn't a big deal. As an investigator in such a high-profile case, Strzok is expected to uphold not only impartiality, but also the appearance of impartiality. Since he has evidently failed to do so, he should be censured. Mueller removed him from the investigation as soon as he learned of the messages. He already got 100% of what he deserved for what he did, which already wasn't much. What's happening now is Congress attempting to persecute him for having his own political opinion. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12027 Posts
On July 14 2018 00:34 gobbledydook wrote: If you are politically biased against someone you are investigating for a crime, and you admitted as much in the texts that you sent using a work phone, then I don't see why it isn't a big deal. As an investigator in such a high-profile case, Strzok is expected to uphold not only impartiality, but also the appearance of impartiality. Since he has evidently failed to do so, he should be censured. Which is why he was immediately removed from the investigation. I don't think anyone here complains about that. That makes sense and is a proportional response. But it seems really silly to then waste 5+ hours of congress time to have politicians talking at him. That can't be standard procedure. This falls completely in line with republicans fabricating "scandals" from basically nothing and blowing things amazingly absurdly out of proportion. At least in the email case the target was someone that actually mattered, but here he is clearly just some dude who happens to be involved with an investigation that republicans really, really want to discredit. It should also be noted that this is an immense waste of congress time, which is definitively a limited resource. Shouldn't these people do some actual legislating? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Nice, glad to see that racist line of reasoning used on foreign soil, not at all embarrassing. By the way, anyone from the UK would be an immigrant. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On July 14 2018 00:36 gobbledydook wrote: In any case, there are two separate issues that are being contested regarding Trump. 1. He is an idiot and a disgrace to America. 2. The media is biased against him. These two can be both true at the same time. The idea of the media being against him is kind of misleading though. The media was also "against" Shkreli. The media is not against the pope. There are things Shkreli and the pope have each done that determined the way they are treated by the media. It all boils down to the frustration conservatives feel when they are in the spotlight and being judged by their actions. They had such a luxury of yelling from the sidelines as the opposition party that they can't stand being accountable. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On July 14 2018 00:36 gobbledydook wrote: In any case, there are two separate issues that are being contested regarding Trump. 1. He is an idiot and a disgrace to America. 2. The media is biased against him. These two can be both true at the same time. ok, that's a good framing of the topic. which of these propositions are you arguing for/against? | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On July 14 2018 00:34 gobbledydook wrote: If you are politically biased against someone you are investigating for a crime, and you admitted as much in the texts that you sent using a work phone, then I don't see why it isn't a big deal. As an investigator in such a high-profile case, Strzok is expected to uphold not only impartiality, but also the appearance of impartiality. Since he has evidently failed to do so, he should be censured. So are you suggesting that it is completely impossible for someone to hold an opinion and do their job impartially? Should all criminal proceedings against Democrats only be carried out by Democrats? There ain't no impartiality in a two-party system, everyone's left or right whether or not they want to be. He admitted in his texts that he didn't like Trump. He did not admit in those texts that he was allowing that opinion to affect his work, and nobody has proven otherwise. The bloody beating heart of this is the criminalisation of opinions the government doesn't like. And if a fucking Democrat pulled this shit it would be WALL TO WALL cries of exactly what I just said. I understand why things are the way they are. But it makes me genuinely worried for the US. If the Democrats sink to this level when they get their next round, you guys are done. Your political system cannot function correctly without degrees of compromise, all it'll be is the government actively fucking over half of the population, with the half varying depending on the government. Where can that possibly lead but disaster? I have no issue with right wing government. I disagree with the policies and I'm not right wing, but that's fine. Other people get their say as well. I have massive issues with any government that literally considers everyone but it's own voters to be the enemy. And you're maybe ten years away from both political parties viewing the American people in that light. Both parties should push their agenda, yes, but they shouldn't be actively screwing over the other guys. That's wrong. On July 14 2018 00:49 Plansix wrote: Trump in the UK – immigration is bad for the country because it changes our culture. Nice, glad to see that racist line of reasoning used on foreign soil, not at all embarrassing. By the way, anyone from the UK would be an immigrant. Well, the Native Americans probably think immigration changes culture. When all those immigrants arrived. From the UK. *whistles and wanders away* On July 14 2018 00:49 Mohdoo wrote: The idea of the media being against him is kind of misleading though. The media was also "against" Shkreli. The media is not against the pope. There are things Shkreli and the pope have each done that determined the way they are treated by the media. It all boils down to the frustration conservatives feel when they are in the spotlight and being judged by their actions. They had such a luxury of yelling from the sidelines as the opposition party that they can't stand being accountable. I don't disagree with the idea that the media is against Trump. Most outlets pretty clearly hate him and he couldn't buy a positive piece. But plenty of journalists have pointed out how hard it is to cover Trump. He actively attacks them constantly, no matter what they say, unless it's utter brown nosing. He lies and if they report on the lies he accuses them of lying. He lies ALL THE TIME. So what are they supposed to do? They can't just ignore him lying over and over, so they effectively can't do pieces on him that are positive, because they constantly have to correct his lies. How can you not be biased against him when he's flat out called you the enemy and actively called for entire news organisations to be destroyed? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10011 Posts
On July 14 2018 00:49 Plansix wrote: Trump in the UK – immigration is bad for the country because it changes our culture. Nice, glad to see that racist line of reasoning used on foreign soil, not at all embarrassing. By the way, anyone from the UK would be an immigrant. Its ok, we have exactly that brand of racism over here too. Just look at anything Nigel Farage ever said. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Or when they dragged Facebook in front of congress for having a news editorial team. Because it was anti conservative The narrative the House conservatives have been fostering is a false snes that the “establishment” is trying to repress them. Even though they have their own media and reach. And because they use the power of government to do it, sites like Facebook make sure to promote conservative leaning news to avoid the wrath of congress. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On July 14 2018 01:01 Jockmcplop wrote: Its ok, we have exactly that brand of racism over here too. Just look at anything Nigel Farage ever said. If you want to, by the way, I believe you can listen to excerpts from his radio show on TEH INTARWEBZ. Google up LBC and see if you get hits. If you want to. By which I mean if you're drunk or just too damn happy and need some sadness to bring you down a bit. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10011 Posts
On July 14 2018 01:07 iamthedave wrote: If you want to, by the way, I believe you can listen to excerpts from his radio show on TEH INTARWEBZ. Google up LBC and see if you get hits. If you want to. By which I mean if you're drunk or just too damn happy and need some sadness to bring you down a bit. I'd rather glue my lips to a moving car, but thanks  | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
This just released. 12 Russians charged with hacking the DNC and Clinton campaign. This as Trump heads to a meeting with Putin. I can’t help but think they waited until eight before the meeting. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On July 14 2018 00:49 xDaunt wrote: Looks like Mueller is about to indict more people. Rosenstein is starting a press conference imminently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhpEfxO0XEU Looks like a bunch of Russians this time around WASHINGTON — Rod J. Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, on Friday announced new charges against 12 Russian intelligence officers accused of hacking the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton presidential campaign. The announcement came just a few days before President Trump is expected to meet with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia in Helsinki, Finland. The indictments are part of the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential campaign. Russia has denied that its government had any role in the hacks that preceded the presidential election. Mr. Rosenstein discussed the charges during a news conference at the Justice Department in Washington as Mr. Trump met with Queen Elizabeth in Britain, creating a bizarre split screen on cable news of presidential pomp and an ongoing investigation that has ensnared some of the president’s aides. The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, has filed more than 100 criminal counts against 32 people and three companies. Among the people previously charged are fourteen Russians and three Trump associates who have already pleaded guilty. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/politics/mueller-indictment-russian-intelligence-hacking.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=67303137&pgtype=Homepage Let's take a moment to once again appreciate how many people on this board remained firm that Russia did nothing and that this was McCarthyism. I am curious if any of the British press (who actually exist to some level, unlike in the US) will press Trump on this at all. My curiosity also makes me sad, realizing how neutered our press has become. We are in a weird part of history right now. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
It is worth noting that Trump said today that he is going to ask Putin when they meet if he interfered with our election. What a fucking joke. Any conservatives want to defend his refusal to accept Russian interference? I'm sure it's all just a coincidence. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On July 14 2018 01:18 On_Slaught wrote: Some very specific info about hacks of data, including attacking individual voters. Scary stuff how deep they went. It is worth noting that Trump said today that he is going to ask Putin when they meet if he interfered with our election. What a fucking joke. Any conservatives want to defend his refusal to accept Russian interference? I'm sure it's all just a coincidence. https://twitter.com/DavidJollyFL/status/1017803647865016320 You realize that Rosenstein just said that he briefed Trump on this earlier this week, right? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 14 2018 01:20 xDaunt wrote: You realize that Rosenstein just said that he briefed Trump on this earlier this week, right? Trump also said he visited the Scotland and predicted the Brexit vote would succeed the day before it happened. He visited the day after the Brexit vote. Trump isn't really into reality. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On July 14 2018 01:20 xDaunt wrote: You realize that Rosenstein just said that he briefed Trump on this earlier this week, right? Meaning what? | ||
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