|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 07:53 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +This seems to be in stark contrast to the reaction of quite few members of this forum. I think there was a fair amount of irony or else general dismissal of the endorsement from those posters. Basically, I interpreted all of that to mean the endorsements were meaningless and that any attempt to create meaning of it was absurd on its face and they weren't giving it the time of day.
What can I say, if someone is seemingly more interested in finding hypocrisy than finding the truth, I give it somewhat short shrift.
Cheers for the post back from the time, honestly I largely steered clear from interjecting on the whole trucker thing due to ignorance, so didn’t take a position on it, but interesting to read an old account from the coal face as it were.
I’m not remotely a fan of assumed guilt by association, I’ll give a certain subset of libertarians shit on it because they’ll willingly platform complete pieces of shit.
1. I just think the ‘free marketplace of ideas’ is hopelessly naive and doesn’t work in many applications
2. If you’re a libertarian who frequently decries the left, but is OK platforming actual Nazis and having civil streams with them or w/e, I think it’s a reasonable assumption that you prefer their worldview to that of the vague left.
3. Hey, some of my beliefs are antithetical to yours, that happens and is fair enough. But so is much of Fascism so why the fuck are you giving them a fair shake?
Hey it’s a reasonably specific subset, not a majority of declared libertarians, although IMO large enough to be recognisable.
|
If you want to analyze what the endorsements mean for the canidate you can very easily look into why they're endorsing the candidate. I attacked the trucker protest for their white supremist symbols being associated with it because the things they were protesting were in line with what the white supremists wanted, and their only issue was the obvious bad image embracing them publically would be. Cheney Spencer and others are endorsing harris because they think harris isn't a sundowning shitshow and has legitimate policy. She can be trusted with the nuclear codes and act competently when faced with information.
The messaging around how harris has used the endorsement of the Cheneys has been very clear that they don't agree on policy, whereas the truckers protest very much was in line with the anti government conspiracy theory narrative performative nonsense that white supremacists love to preach. They might have disagreed on who or why exactly the conspiracy was being done by or for what but they are both were in agreement that the government was lieing about the vaccine being legitimate for public health and that they should destabilize the government in response. That whole shit was timed so that it would run out of steam just as the prepanned ending of the vaccine mandate would go through to pretend that they had a victory and they were the ones who defeated the government through the power of cruelty.
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 09:09 Sermokala wrote:
If you want to analyze what the endorsements mean for the canidate you can very easily look into why they're endorsing the candidate. I attacked the trucker protest for their white supremist symbols being associated with it because the things they were protesting were in line with what the white supremists wanted, and their only issue was the obvious bad image embracing them publically would be. Cheney Spencer and others are endorsing harris because they think harris isn't a sundowning shitshow and has legitimate policy. She can be trusted with the nuclear codes and act competently when faced with information.
The messaging around how harris has used the endorsement of the Cheneys has been very clear that they don't agree on policy, whereas the truckers protest very much was in line with the anti government conspiracy theory narrative performative nonsense that white supremacists love to preach. They might have disagreed on who or why exactly the conspiracy was being done by or for what but they are both were in agreement that the government was lieing about the vaccine being legitimate for public health and that they should destabilize the government in response. That whole shit was timed so that it would run out of steam just as the prepanned ending of the vaccine mandate would go through to pretend that they had a victory and they were the ones who defeated the government through the power of cruelty.
I’ll sidestep the trucker stuff, not my wheelhouse, not something I know much about.
But as per these recent endorsements, yeah 100%.
These people aren’t flipping parties, or wider platforms. All Cheney, or Arnie or whoever have said is ‘I’m a Republican, I believe in certain values but Donald Trump is so shit I’m reluctantly endorsing the other lot this time.’
|
On November 05 2024 07:53 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +This seems to be in stark contrast to the reaction of quite few members of this forum. I think there was a fair amount of irony or else general dismissal of the endorsement from those posters. Basically, I interpreted all of that to mean the endorsements were meaningless and that any attempt to create meaning of it was absurd on its face and they weren't giving it the time of day.
In all honesty (not sure how acquainted with the thread you are) after reading reactions to Cheney, Bush girl, Arnie and post (edit part: specifically Sermo) after yours, are you still think there " was a fair amount of irony or else general dismissal of the endorsement from those posters"
Honest question not bait.
Edit: some typos
Edit 2: specified poster (dont want to do Wombat injustice) and removed plural form
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 09:55 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 07:53 Falling wrote:This seems to be in stark contrast to the reaction of quite few members of this forum. I think there was a fair amount of irony or else general dismissal of the endorsement from those posters. Basically, I interpreted all of that to mean the endorsements were meaningless and that any attempt to create meaning of it was absurd on its face and they weren't giving it the time of day. In all honesty (not sure how acquainted with the thread you are) after reading reactions to Cheney, Bush girl, Arnie and posts after yours, are you still think there " was a fair amount of irony or else general dismissal of the endorsement from those posters" Honest question not bait. Edit: some typos
What is your question?
Nobody’s going ‘FUCK YEAHHH DICK CHENEY!’
It’s literally just an observation that x individual is someone we largely disagree with, wouldn’t vote for, but that considers Trump to be so deficient that they’ll come out against him.
I’m really unsure what point you’re even making
|
Ok I just read Wombat post before mine and he kinda deserves to be in the pot (so to speak) for this one.
Because while it is true that nobody goes: ‘FUCK YEAHHH DICK CHENEY!’ It is also a true that everybody goes "even Dick Cheney left you" those are kinda the same statements however latter one has "plausible deniability" so to speak.
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 10:22 Razyda wrote:
Ok I just read Wombat post before mine and he kinda deserves to be in the pot (so to speak) for this one.
Because while it is true that nobody goes: ‘FUCK YEAHHH DICK CHENEY!’ It is also a true that everybody goes "even Dick Cheney left you" those are kinda the same statements however latter one has "plausible deniability" so to speak.
Plausible deniability for what?
I said I didn’t understand what your wider point was and I stand by that. Perhaps if I pose the question again I might get some insight.
Are ‘we’ just not supposed to comment on that endorsement or what?
I’m not being deliberately obtuse, I’m genuinely unsure what point you’re trying to make here
|
On November 05 2024 10:34 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 10:22 Razyda wrote:
Ok I just read Wombat post before mine and he kinda deserves to be in the pot (so to speak) for this one.
Because while it is true that nobody goes: ‘FUCK YEAHHH DICK CHENEY!’ It is also a true that everybody goes "even Dick Cheney left you" those are kinda the same statements however latter one has "plausible deniability" so to speak.
Plausible deniability for what? I said I didn’t understand what your wider point was and I stand by that. Perhaps if I pose the question again I might get some insight. Are ‘we’ just not supposed to comment on that endorsement or what? I’m not being deliberately obtuse, I’m genuinely unsure what point you’re trying to make here
I am not sure what you cant understand?
I think I explained what I mean here:
On November 05 2024 07:31 Razyda wrote:
Now if memory serves right Truckers protest is perfect parallel here. If i remember correctly (correct me if I am wrong) truckers chased away hakenkreuz lads? they didnt went: "dudes are kinda bad, but they see the reason, great that they joined us". This seems to be in stark contrast to the reaction of quite few members of this forum.
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 10:51 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 10:34 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 10:22 Razyda wrote:
Ok I just read Wombat post before mine and he kinda deserves to be in the pot (so to speak) for this one.
Because while it is true that nobody goes: ‘FUCK YEAHHH DICK CHENEY!’ It is also a true that everybody goes "even Dick Cheney left you" those are kinda the same statements however latter one has "plausible deniability" so to speak.
Plausible deniability for what? I said I didn’t understand what your wider point was and I stand by that. Perhaps if I pose the question again I might get some insight. Are ‘we’ just not supposed to comment on that endorsement or what? I’m not being deliberately obtuse, I’m genuinely unsure what point you’re trying to make here I am not sure what you cant understand? I think I explained what I mean here: Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 07:31 Razyda wrote:
Now if memory serves right Truckers protest is perfect parallel here. If i remember correctly (correct me if I am wrong) truckers chased away hakenkreuz lads? they didnt went: "dudes are kinda bad, but they see the reason, great that they joined us". This seems to be in stark contrast to the reaction of quite few members of this forum.
Ok so you’re asking me my opinion on a parallel I’ve twice said I don’t know much about (scroll up)
And what is your fucking point? It’s not that hard, people may disagree with me (frequently) but they usually know what I’m asking
Do you want us to disavow Harris because Dick Cheney endorsed her? And if we don’t do that we’re horrible, horrible hypocrites?
Or what is it? Pro tip if people genuinely say they don’t know what your point is, repeating your point with no further explanation doesn’t tend to solve that problem.
|
Both can reject or acept an endorsement and support of a group or people as much as they want. The difference is "Hakenreuz lads" weren't rejected because they disagreed on what they were protesting or what they wanted to do they were rejected because of the bad press they would bring if they didn't. The endorsement of republicans for harris was accepted with the explicit conditions by the campaign on the reasons why they were endorsed. If you like the truckers protest because you think the government is trying to kill people and control them with a fake plauge, but you disagree on who "the government is", you still agree on why you are protesting. If you like harris because she isn't sundowning and understands basic concepts like how a tariff works, the Constitution is good, dictators are bad, that doesn't make harris bad.
|
|
|
On November 05 2024 10:51 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 10:34 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 10:22 Razyda wrote:
Ok I just read Wombat post before mine and he kinda deserves to be in the pot (so to speak) for this one.
Because while it is true that nobody goes: ‘FUCK YEAHHH DICK CHENEY!’ It is also a true that everybody goes "even Dick Cheney left you" those are kinda the same statements however latter one has "plausible deniability" so to speak.
Plausible deniability for what? I said I didn’t understand what your wider point was and I stand by that. Perhaps if I pose the question again I might get some insight. Are ‘we’ just not supposed to comment on that endorsement or what? I’m not being deliberately obtuse, I’m genuinely unsure what point you’re trying to make here I am not sure what you cant understand? I think I explained what I mean here: Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 07:31 Razyda wrote:
Now if memory serves right Truckers protest is perfect parallel here. If i remember correctly (correct me if I am wrong) truckers chased away hakenkreuz lads? they didnt went: "dudes are kinda bad, but they see the reason, great that they joined us". This seems to be in stark contrast to the reaction of quite few members of this forum.
Fwiw I've heard loads of "Fuck you, Dick Cheney" and/or references to him being a war criminal. Not exactly open arms welcoming.
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
|
On November 05 2024 11:35 WombaT wrote:What are his rationales?
Apparently Elon Musk convinced him:
https://x.com/joerogan/status/1853614670764015762
All he wrote was:
"The great and powerful @elonmusk.
If it wasn't for him we'd be fucked. He makes what I think is the most compelling case for Trump you'll hear, and I agree with him every step of the way.
For the record, yes, that's an endorsement of Trump.
Enjoy the podcast"
Vapid as always.
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 11:24 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 10:51 Razyda wrote:On November 05 2024 10:34 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 10:22 Razyda wrote:
Ok I just read Wombat post before mine and he kinda deserves to be in the pot (so to speak) for this one.
Because while it is true that nobody goes: ‘FUCK YEAHHH DICK CHENEY!’ It is also a true that everybody goes "even Dick Cheney left you" those are kinda the same statements however latter one has "plausible deniability" so to speak.
Plausible deniability for what? I said I didn’t understand what your wider point was and I stand by that. Perhaps if I pose the question again I might get some insight. Are ‘we’ just not supposed to comment on that endorsement or what? I’m not being deliberately obtuse, I’m genuinely unsure what point you’re trying to make here I am not sure what you cant understand? I think I explained what I mean here: On November 05 2024 07:31 Razyda wrote:
Now if memory serves right Truckers protest is perfect parallel here. If i remember correctly (correct me if I am wrong) truckers chased away hakenkreuz lads? they didnt went: "dudes are kinda bad, but they see the reason, great that they joined us". This seems to be in stark contrast to the reaction of quite few members of this forum.
Fwiw I've heard loads of "Fuck you, Dick Cheney" and/or references to him being a war criminal. Not exactly open arms welcoming.
He’s not even that relevant, least here. Our pub quiz team was named in his ‘honour’ just to be annoying and pick the biggest prick we could think of.
The boos if we get a quickest question or win a round (or occasionally, the quiz) are way less pronounced like 8 years on because the younglings don’t really know who he is.
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 11:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Apparently Elon Musk convinced him: https://x.com/joerogan/status/1853614670764015762 All he wrote was: "The great and powerful @elonmusk. If it wasn't for him we'd be fucked. He makes what I think is the most compelling case for Trump you'll hear, and I agree with him every step of the way. For the record, yes, that's an endorsement of Trump. Enjoy the podcast" Vapid as always.
The blind leading the blind eh?
I couldn’t be fucking arsed clicking through, watching some Elon Musk video to find out what Rogan wants to endorse
Like is it beyond him to say ‘I like x y and z’ about Trump’s platform?
I don’t like it, you’re entitled to prefer Trump. But do you have to send us on a merry dance as to why?
|
United States44127 Posts
On November 05 2024 11:35 WombaT wrote:What are his rationales?
“My salary depends on this.”
|
On November 05 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 11:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 05 2024 11:35 WombaT wrote:What are his rationales? Apparently Elon Musk convinced him: https://x.com/joerogan/status/1853614670764015762 All he wrote was: "The great and powerful @elonmusk. If it wasn't for him we'd be fucked. He makes what I think is the most compelling case for Trump you'll hear, and I agree with him every step of the way. For the record, yes, that's an endorsement of Trump. Enjoy the podcast" Vapid as always. The blind leading the blind eh? I couldn’t be fucking arsed clicking through, watching some Elon Musk video to find out what Rogan wants to endorse Like is it beyond him to say ‘I like x y and z’ about Trump’s platform? I don’t like it, you’re entitled to prefer Trump. But do you have to send us on a merry dance as to why?
Yeah it's basically clickbait for his show. Who cares if it helps destroy the United States in the process?
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 11:44 KwarK wrote:“My salary depends on this.”
The sad part is it really doesn’t
Rogan built his entire brand on being perceived (relatively) politically independent, having interesting guests from various spheres and having a ton of knowledge on MMA, that’s what folks tuned in for. Least among my circle, which maybe isn’t super representative to be fair
Rogan’s empire is probably more overall lucrative if he doesn’t do things like, I dunno outright coming out as pro Trump. So if you’re going to do that I’d assume it comes from that understanding
|
Northern Ireland27040 Posts
On November 05 2024 11:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 11:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 05 2024 11:35 WombaT wrote:What are his rationales? Apparently Elon Musk convinced him: https://x.com/joerogan/status/1853614670764015762 All he wrote was: "The great and powerful @elonmusk. If it wasn't for him we'd be fucked. He makes what I think is the most compelling case for Trump you'll hear, and I agree with him every step of the way. For the record, yes, that's an endorsement of Trump. Enjoy the podcast" Vapid as always. The blind leading the blind eh? I couldn’t be fucking arsed clicking through, watching some Elon Musk video to find out what Rogan wants to endorse Like is it beyond him to say ‘I like x y and z’ about Trump’s platform? I don’t like it, you’re entitled to prefer Trump. But do you have to send us on a merry dance as to why? Yeah it's basically clickbait for his show. Who cares if it helps destroy the United States in the process?
I feel bad for Joe sometimes, it feels he’s been inadvertently elevated to some position of actual influence, and he didn’t actually court it
He just had a podcast that blew up for whatever reason
This isn’t to excuse him from mistakes he’s made with that platform, but I don’t think he ever really wanted it, nor expected it. Nor really knows what to do with it.
Like if we went back to Fear Factor days and said ‘this man will be one of the most influential people in the world’ people would have told you to fuck right off
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
