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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45210 Posts
On July 23 2024 12:39 WombaT wrote: Who are the people who are actually saying these things? He refused to answer when I asked him that, besides saying "Kamala Harris". Maybe you'll have better luck. | ||
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Razyda
896 Posts
On July 23 2024 12:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That link doesn't say Biden was doing great.", MAGA Media has portrayed Biden as a senile, mentally incapacitated elderly man who cannot remember what he had for breakfast, let alone run the federal government. That might sound like an exaggeration to those who don’t tune in to Fox News or listen to talk radio, but it has been a real and constant theme in the right-wing media universe "That’s a worry for right-wing media figures, which risk seeing their bogus narrative about Biden being ripped up in real time. That link says that Republicans were setting the bar very low for Biden at some points, through mockery - which was especially true when Biden gave a solid SotU speech and Republicans had to backtrack and make up conspiracy theories about Biden. How does listing Trump's problems "feel religious"? People should care about those problems.Maybe but they dont Vote for Hitler? You mean the guy running for president on the Republican side, according to his own runningmate? Feel free to add that to Trump's list of Things That Should Be Problematic To Voters Who Have Standards. :Like the ones who would vote Biden even if he shot their own mother?? Also, when you write replies, don't write part of the reply inside my post that you're quoting, because then you're quoting yourself and it looks like I wrote the nonsenseYou joust ensured that this is the way I'll reply to you from now on that you actually added in afterwards. It makes things more confusing, and your writing is already unclear. User was warned for this post | ||
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Razyda
896 Posts
On July 23 2024 12:39 WombaT wrote: Who are the people who are actually saying these things? If you specify and I'll have time I'll will answer. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45210 Posts
You're usually not this bad at formatting your responses, and you've written other posts that were somewhat coherent in the past. It seems that you're doing this just to spite me, by your own admission (you said "You joust ensured that this is the way I'll reply to you from now on"), so I'm not going to engage with you until you fix yourself. Stop acting like a child. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2623 Posts
On July 23 2024 11:05 Razyda wrote: This thread is amusing tbh. The same people who complained when oBlade said that they are religious when it comes to Democratic party are the same people who were arguing that Trump is more declined than Biden in this very thread. Now they claim that "unburdened" Kamala is great and obvious candidate(after arguing how fantastic candidate Biden is and how he should step down???). Now same guys arguing that it is perfectly legal to swap candidate. The reason it is hilarious is that you would have vote Democrats candidate if it was cart of compost, but as it happens you wont be deciding this election, your votes are counted beforehand. The people who will decide this election saw: Political opponent prosecuted, Attempt of assassination of aforementioned opponent and ignoring primary results. Honestly GLHF guys and to be even more honest GGNoRe Hi! The people complaining when oBlade argued that democrats had some absence of religion that they fill with democratic politics were largely just me, because that argument was and still is fucking stupid. To be fair, it was something of a pothead musing from oBlade rather than a fullfledged argument, but the people pushing back on it was 90%+ me and not some imaginary collective. With that stated, I haven't recently argued that Trump is more declined than Biden or anything, though I do believe that it's 'legal' for them to swap candidates because I have no fucking reason to believe it's illegal for them to do so. I did, however, push back against micronesia for taking offense at someone claiming it to be against the 'spirit of the constitution' to not have an actual primary etc. I'm not a democrat both because I literally can't be, and also because my political history in the country I actually live gives me a more defined political identity than the 'red or blue' trash you're stuck with past our southern border. Just wanted to add that as a lil' fact check on your statement here. @oBlade: + Show Spoiler + Whether or not you do drugs is wholly irrelevant. Reading comprehension shows that the subject, 'it', was 'the argument' and not 'oBlade'. The 'it' was something of a pothead musing, i.e. not a wholly developed thesis. I trust you can understand this to mean "The argument was poorly conceived" and not "oBlade literally does drugs lOllOlLOlOLlOl" if you apply any brainpower to it. Perhaps some stimulant drugs, such as caffeine, would help you achieve such a feat. | ||
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oBlade
United States5818 Posts
The US Constitution is basically the longest running extant founding document of a government and it's maybe the only country whose not only political, but national identity is thuswise defined. It's not a country delineated by demographics, or one that for example goes haywire out of balance every 50 some odd years, or suffers an insurmountable crisis, to have a street revolution and restart everything (staring at France). And it's not Canada or Australia going "Yeah we're kind of still part of Britain but also not, mom I'm scared to go out in the world alone." The Constitution's only real mention is that the electoral college should vote for the president, everything else we have filled in by law and mostly left elections to the states. Because the Constitution didn't envisage parties at all. One of those laws is that you have to meet certain conditions to get ballot access. Conditions that even minor parties and independent candidates have been shown capable of doing for the the highest office. While it's certainly anti-democratic and obnoxious to the voters to have a rug pulled out from under them, that is ultimately the party and candidate's fault. The Constitution just says we get a choice. It doesn't mandate us to be involved in the step of choosing the choices, to be honest. On July 23 2024 13:24 Fleetfeet wrote: + Show Spoiler + Whether or not you do drugs is wholly irrelevant. Reading comprehension shows that the subject, 'it', was 'the argument' and not 'oBlade'. The 'it' was something of a pothead musing, i.e. not a wholly developed thesis. I trust you can understand this to mean "The argument was poorly conceived" and not "oBlade literally does drugs lOllOlLOlOLlOl" if you apply any brainpower to it. Perhaps some stimulant drugs, such as caffeine, would help you achieve such a feat. Yeah I'm still working on getting it ready for publishing in book form but for now I'm content it was a damn sight more elaborated than, "look, it says 'we the people.'" | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1105 Posts
Well there are the two sorts of crime. Stealing diapers because you can't afford them... and stealing a diaper factory real estate lot by not paying the owner. One of them earns you jailtime, and one earns you some million dollars. So poverty is the mother of poor people's crimes. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22039 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45210 Posts
On July 23 2024 17:30 Gorsameth wrote: I question if actual swing voters will care about the Republicans shouting about illegitimate primaries after they have been crying wolf about non-existent election fraud the last 4 years. I think Republicans have certainly poisoned their own well with so many lies regarding past elections, that most people outside of the "widespread voter fraud" cult will probably look to other non-MAGA groups for their impressions on how the Democratic primary is playing out. The Trump sycophants are clearly useless when it comes to consistently and reliably describing reality (repeatedly crying wolf, as you put it). However, for this specific situation (Harris probably being gifted the nomination through the endorsement of Biden and others), I can see why Democrats would be split. When I voted for Biden in the primary, it was because I wanted Biden to be the nominee, not because I wanted Biden to pick the nominee. That extra degree of separation between the primary voter and the actual nominee - where the primary winner is simply the middleman, the queen-maker - might not sit quite right with many people. Maybe Harris ends up being our best chance at beating Trump, but I think many people would feel better about that if a quick last-second open primary confirmed that Harris would receive more primary votes over any alternative candidates. Of course, there are counterarguments to this too: Every day we spend on that last-second open primary is a day we're in-fighting instead of unifying against Trump; We already considered Harris to be presidential material when we voted for the Biden-Harris ticket in 2020, knowing she was a heartbeat away from the Oval Office, and we agreed on it again in the 2024 primary when we knew that nominating Biden a second time meant that Harris would stay on as his runningmate; She's not just the logical successor to the Biden presidency, but also an integral part of the current team who can share credit for the massive accomplishments we've seen over the past few years. I don't blame people for being fine with swapping out Biden for Harris, and I don't blame people for wanting a last-second open primary just for peace of mind. We're in a really crappy situation, and the optics aren't great either way. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35165 Posts
On July 23 2024 17:30 Gorsameth wrote: I question if actual swing voters will care about the Republicans shouting about illegitimate primaries after they have been crying wolf about non-existent election fraud the last 4 years. The Esptien documents confirming that yes, Trump is indeed a pedo rapist haven't moved the polls. Trump survived an attempted assassination and it hasn't moved the poll. Nothing is swinging anybody's thoughts one way or another, it's who is going to show up to vote. | ||
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
On July 23 2024 20:43 Gahlo wrote: The Esptien documents confirming that yes, Trump is indeed a pedo rapist haven't moved the polls. Trump survived an attempted assassination and it hasn't moved the poll. Nothing is swinging anybody's thoughts one way or another, it's who is going to show up to vote. Mostly agree. Some people will switch, more will either vote 3rd party or more likely, not vote. I'm one of those. But really a sign of a politically healthy populace when no one is willing to consider they may be wrong /s | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1105 Posts
Afaik all the candidates that could have a realistic chance in primaries.. now endorse Kamala Harris... so no need to vote. I think the Magats are still baffled. So far the only thing they came up with are the 1900 convictions which DA Harris oversaw.. with 45 jail sentences. So the Magats message is: "If you want law and order, vote for Harris" or "If you don't want drug dealers on the street, vote Kamala" or "Hey drugdealers, don't vote for Kamala, convicted fellon DJT is your man!" | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On July 23 2024 12:52 Razyda wrote: If you specify and I'll have time I'll will answer. GH actually put a poll up seeing some attitudes, and in a thread that’s very Dem/Dem-adjacent in composition I don’t think its results will be unreflective of ‘the Dems’ and they don’t really mesh with your read here. 1. As one of the ones who did argue against oBlade’s characterisation, it was specifically on the ‘x is like a religion’ angle. Slavish loyalty to an entity can still exist without it being a religion. You definitely have a problem with politics in general, but very notably in the States where it’s akin to the blind support and bias one might see more in sports fans. That absolutely is a problem, and I amongst others are certainly critical of the ‘vote Blue no matter who’ line of thinking. However, that’s more a general populace issue, I think it’s much less prevalent in this specific thread amongst its users. I don’t think Trump has declined, indeed in a conversation I had the other night, I made the observation that as a borderline psychopath and not giving a shit, he’s actually somewhat immune to the stresses of the office. Look at how other former Presidents have visibly aged atypically quickly in the role, I don’t think this really affects Trump. That observation aside, I don’t think people were ever really arguing that Trump has declined, just that he was never mentally suitable in the first place. Thus it was a toss-up between that, and a Biden who was showing some wear and tear of age, that most didn’t deny, just also didn’t think it was as bad as it subsequently showed to be. I’ll add that you can go back to the night of debate and a lot of posters changed position on Biden’s capability when presented with that evidence. 2. There’s a difference between thinking someone is a great candidate, a viable one, or simply the only realistic one in a given scenario. With Harris, far more of the thread are going with options 2 and 3 there. Or as per GH’s poll actually want a primary/prefer other options. So I don’t think this really accurately reflects thread sentiment. Of regular posters I think only really DPB was previously a particularly enthusiastic about Biden, in the beyond merely acceptable sense. 3. It is perfectly legal to do this. Whether it’s a good idea or not is an issue of some contentious debate in here however. I mean in the UK we have a different system of course but we’re just out of multiple unelected Prime Ministers, which was less than ideal to my sensibilities. 4. I think it’s a ridiculous claim to link the attempted assassination to the Dem party apparatus. I think you post pretty sensibly in general but you’re almost completely off on this one | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1105 Posts
![[image loading]](https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/669f5f7b2200009200ff0526.jpg?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale&format=webp) | ||
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oBlade
United States5818 Posts
On July 23 2024 22:12 KT_Elwood wrote: To be fair, the process could have been more transparent - but the replacement for Biden in office and on the ticket was clearly Harris, and it was for there for everyone to see. Afaik all the candidates that could have a realistic chance in primaries.. now endorse Kamala Harris... so no need to vote. Did Kamala endorse herself also or was she not included among your list of candidates who have a realistic chance in primaries? Or rather let me ask this way: Imagine Biden had actually stuck to his promise of being a one term president, not been coerced by his son and wife to hold on to their power, and not been threatened to be removed from office by the 25th amendment if he didn't give up 2024... Would Harris have won the primary? On July 23 2024 22:12 KT_Elwood wrote: I think the Magats are still baffled. So far the only thing they came up with are the 1900 convictions which DA Harris oversaw.. with 45 jail sentences. So the Magats message is: "If you want law and order, vote for Harris" or "If you don't want drug dealers on the street, vote Kamala" or "Hey drugdealers, don't vote for Kamala, convicted fellon DJT is your man!" From my surface level understanding of Magats, they are big on rule of law, not big on California DAs, and think those things are opposites. To wit, Kamala supported no cash bail in her state. Then, when it was politically expedient in 2020 she personally supported bail and legal funds for far left rioters. Biden put her in charge of the border, and dropped the ball would be an understatement - she never picked it up or even inflated it. Indeed, when asked why she hadn't been to the border, she responded by cackling and saying she'd never been to Europe. The 1900 convictions you're talking about are presumably her marijuana convictions? This often happens with lawyers - they do weird or sick stuff that can be translated into numbers, put those beautiful looking numbers on paper in a resume, then quit being a lawyer and try to take over the world. Reefer is not really MAGA's priority, more like fentanyl, illegal immigration, sanctuary cities, looting, gangs. She herself has probably moved to the left on that compared to her past self like the rest of the party. This is part of a bigger problem with her, she seems to have no beliefs or principles, so on one hand has some moderate bipartisan successes as a Senator and then a series of disasters, including of this administration that she can't escape. | ||
KwarK
United States43448 Posts
On July 23 2024 23:33 KT_Elwood wrote: Trump is seriously losing his sh*t over not steering the direction of the narrative at the moment. Ukraine Russia border not feeling seen. Though German Polish border has more poles. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22039 Posts
On July 23 2024 23:33 oBlade wrote: Did you legit just try to claim Trump supports are big on rule of law? Did Kamala endorse herself also or was she not included among your list of candidates who have a realistic chance in primaries? Or rather let me ask this way: Imagine Biden had actually stuck to his promise of being a one term president, not been coerced by his son and wife to hold on to their power, and not been threatened to be removed from office by the 25th amendment if he didn't give up 2024... Would Harris have won the primary? From my surface level understanding of Magats, they are big on rule of law, not big on California DAs, and think those things are opposites. To wit, Kamala supported no cash bail in her state. Then, when it was politically expedient in 2020 she personally supported bail and legal funds for far left rioters. Biden put her in charge of the border, and dropped the ball would be an understatement - she never picked it up or even inflated it. Indeed, when asked why she hadn't been to the border, she responded by cackling and saying she'd never been to Europe. The 1900 convictions you're talking about are presumably her marijuana convictions? This often happens with lawyers - they do weird or sick stuff that can be translated into numbers, put those beautiful looking numbers on paper in a resume, then quit being a lawyer and try to take over the world. Reefer is not really MAGA's priority, more like fentanyl, illegal immigration, sanctuary cities, looting, gangs. She herself has probably moved to the left on that compared to her past self like the rest of the party. This is part of a bigger problem with her, she seems to have no beliefs or principles, so on one hand has some moderate bipartisan successes as a Senator and then a series of disasters, including of this administration that she can't escape. Convicted Felon, liable for sexual assault Trump? They claim to be big on the rule of law, but that is just a BS excuse and anyone who spends 2 minutes looking can see that. Republicans are by action absolutely not about law and order. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45210 Posts
On July 23 2024 23:33 oBlade wrote: ... Imagine Biden had actually stuck to his promise of being a one term president, not been coerced by his son and wife to hold on to their power ... Is there any evidence that Jill or Hunter coerced Joe to stay in the race, let alone specifically for the reason of holding on to their power (whatever that means)? | ||
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KwarK
United States43448 Posts
On July 24 2024 00:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Is there any evidence that Jill or Hunter coerced Joe to stay in the race, let alone specifically for the reason of holding on to their power (whatever that means)? We’re being asked to imagine Biden being a one term president in a discussion about how he’s not standing for a second term. I think evidence isn’t relevant here. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11712 Posts
On July 23 2024 23:54 KwarK wrote: Ukraine Russia border not feeling seen. Though German Polish border has more poles. Always remember: This is communicaton by an Ex US president, who is currently running for president again. Thinking about that is kinda surreal. | ||
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