EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4263
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Introvert
United States4570 Posts
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KwarK
United States41390 Posts
On July 14 2024 13:26 frontgarden2222 wrote: What direction is there to go? He's just going to ignore the gun in question and just promote his physical fitness like he really should. Trump is very difficult to predict because he really doesn't give a shit about traditional conservative ideology and will frequently repeat whatever the last thing he saw was. | ||
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frontgarden2222
58 Posts
On July 14 2024 13:28 Introvert wrote: We don't know enough yet to make many judgments (so we csn hold off on comparing to the guy who went to kill Kavanaugh or the one attacked the GOP baseball game)... but we can already see the problem with having the volume turned to 11 on everything. It's bad to have people convincing themselves that democracy is on the line. Guess what, having a candidate shot and killed is also bad for democracy, almost by definition. Too much whishy-washy, mealy mouthed stuff already. So is encouraging an insurrection attempt on the capitol, not doing anything about it, and trying to make the people who participated at it martyrs. What's your point here besides trying to make this seem like a uniquely Dem's problem? All the last few years have proven is that American civil and political society is completely toast and completely irredeemable at this point. Edit: Its true that we shouldn't speculate on the reason of the shooting. Just that most of the time these shooters don't have a coherent political reason for doing so, Squeaky Fromme and John Hinckley just did it for a personal grievance and essentialy clout respectively. On July 14 2024 13:28 KwarK wrote: Trump is very difficult to predict because he really doesn't give a shit about traditional conservative ideology and will frequently repeat whatever the last thing he saw was. He's a reality TV star. He knows how to butter his bread. | ||
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Introvert
United States4570 Posts
On July 14 2024 13:31 frontgarden2222 wrote: So is encouraging an insurrection attempt on the capitol, not doing anything about it, and trying to make the people who participated at it martyrs. What's your point here besides trying to make this seem like a uniquely Dem's problem? All the last few years have proven is that American civil and political society is completely toast and completely irredeemable at this point. Edit: Its true that we shouldn't speculate on the reason of the shooting. Just that most of the time these shooters don't have a coherent political reason for doing so, Squeaky Fromme and John Hinckley just did it for a personal grievance and essentialy clout respectively. He's a reality TV star. He knows how to butter his bread. I don't know who you are so I'm not sure how long you've been here, but I've discussed those othe things before... but I think the rhetoric on the left often doesn't get the condemnation it deserves, and it's especially galling because it's clear through their own actions that the politicians who say it don't believe any of it (supporting people who are "ultra maga" in primaries or refusing to moderate with "democracy at risk") . Again though, we have to hold off on this particular incident. But we already see through some comments here and elsewhere how this is going. | ||
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frontgarden2222
58 Posts
It'd be one thing if they actually believed it but a lot of Democrats clearly don't when they're putting up potential candidates for 2026 and 2028. Can't go both ways. | ||
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RenSC2
United States1010 Posts
On July 14 2024 13:21 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Whatever happened to "When they go low, we go high"? Half of them just got awakened from their slumber by the debate, none other than CNN decrying right wing 'conspiracy theories' about Bidens mental capacity a couple of days beforehand. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/25/media/republican-debate-conspiracy-biden/index.html Right-wing media figures are desperately pushing conspiracy theories about Biden ahead of the debate Hardly surprising CNN has just laid off another 100 staff.Of course now CNN is throwing him under the bus like every other outlet, we can start openly talking about how mentally impaired this guy is here when really he should never have been the nominee in 2020, he was in bad shape then. Right before the debate, right wing media was pushing conspiracy theories about how Biden would be on drugs. They were building up an excuse for why he was going to do so well compared to all their criticism. For the State of the Union, they had to come up with excuses right after for why his State of the Union went so well compared to how they portrayed him. Then he shit the bed in the debate. Giving a broken clock credit for being right once is not the pwn you think it is. Mildly humorous aside. I usually get annoyed at the media over-hyping everything. However, in this case, I think USA Today could have been a bit more dramatic: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Qedh6tQ.jpeg) That was from 8pm cst, hours after the event when it was already known the shooter and at least one attendee was dead. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4820 Posts
Trump's KDA is still insanely favorable, this won't ding his score. | ||
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Husyelt
United States745 Posts
I dont support political violence in any form in a functional democracy (which we currently have). Trump and crew are a direct threat to democracy, but can be beaten at the ballot by voting. Like the scary far right parties in the UK or France. I want Trump held accountable by his own party (thats not gonna happen) and if not that then held accountable by the law (in progress). But at the same time, the missing key here for most of the conversation from the right on a shit show like this, is that for you to be "pro democracy", you cant allege widespread voter fraud without evidence and then lie about it you have to pick a very specific claim, and then win in the courts with it then you can point to that specific case and start building a narrative to help you the problem is, and the reason we are currently in this shit show is that Trump and da boys dont care about democracy or any of this logical shit everything is fake news that is negative Trump and his cronies have been lying for 6-8 years now about the fundamentals of our democracy, and now that hes been a target of a real conspiracy, he will pitch those 6-8 years of lying as vindication. in conclusion, a key tenet of democracy is accepting the results of an election, and trump and crew failed that in 2020. and nothing fucking happened. so if you are pro democracy, that failure should be an end point, but they are not pro democracy. muh twump should rule for 3 terms now cuz stollen election supreme court sayz so moommmmmmyyyyyyyyy | ||
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Slydie
1843 Posts
The US is in such a disappointing state now. Presidential candidates used to be pretty impressive people, even the losers, like Kerry, McCain and Bush Sr. The beste approach might just be apathy and just let whatever happens happen, hoping nothing will impact my real life. | ||
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
He was registered as a Republican. This is, of course, not definitive proof that the shooter was not politically left of center, but it does appear less likely at the moment than it did a couple of hours ago. | ||
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KwarK
United States41390 Posts
On July 14 2024 15:27 Kyadytim wrote: The FBI released the name of the shooter. He was registered as a Republican. This is, of course, not definitive proof that the shooter was not politically liberal, but it does appear less likely at the moment than it did a couple of hours ago. In fairness I'm also a registered Republican. | ||
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
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oBlade
Korea (South)4927 Posts
Biden's DHS, led by the traitor Mayorkas, still continues to deny SS protection to Robert Kennedy and by allegations of Congressman Mike Waltz, ignored/denied requests to beef up Trump's protection which doesn't look good in combination with the guy at the rally who talked to the BBC saying he was pointing at the roof where the gunman was and couldn't get anyone to take him seriously. But people also said suspicious things about the Vegas shooting which turned out to be nothing in hindsight. Seeing someone in this thread jump to the conspiracy theory that this was "staged" just because the gunshots didn't sound like that scene from Heat, or whatever the reasoning is, is laughable - anyone can see the goal was to explode Trump's head on live TV, and in a karmic twist of justice, instead we get to see the guy's found-out skull blown out on x.com. Yeah it's a huge problem that one Redditor (going by aesthetics) could get so close to a president - that doesn't mean something else is going on. An innocent citizen is now dead in addition to the shooter. Trump has not only unhinged enemies at home, like people holding up his severed head, sitting presidents tweeting they have a "bullseye" on him, and 8 years of calling him orange Hitler, he also has enemies abroad who would prefer him not to return to office. There is something like a 5:1 ratio of Republican vs. Democratic politicians suffering violence and the last time a Democrat was a target it was by a mentally ill illegal immigrant. And we know which side lauds the same violence. Rand Paul is one of the nicest, most reasonable men in the entire city of DC, and because he has (R) after his name every uneducated psycho says they want to be his neighbor or think his neighbor was a hero. People will in the same breath call Trump a dictator and get mad he didn't unilaterally suspend the 2nd amendment, yet his actual executive overreach of having the ATF classify bump stocks as machine guns got rejected by his own (alleged) majority SCOTUS. On July 14 2024 15:35 Kyadytim wrote: As I said, not definitive proof. Strategic registration does exist. It maybe stops Fox News and company from shouting from the rooftops that a Democrat tried to assassinate Trump. Truly put your finger on the most troubling aspect of this entire unfolding story. Far-right maniacs are going to twist this event into some kind of assassination attempt. The nerve. | ||
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BlackJack
United States9914 Posts
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r00ty
Germany998 Posts
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Dan HH
Romania8947 Posts
On July 14 2024 17:29 r00ty wrote: Condolences to the victims and the world can be crazy sometimes, but this is the most convenient, perfectly timed failed assassination attempt ever. Just the right amount of blood for the pathos and the good pictures without any serious injuries. How lucky can you get? Lazy writing from our sim masters. Reusing the 2nd amendment plot device to give us a 2nd Trump presidency and drive the US story arc to its climax. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43285 Posts
On July 14 2024 13:28 Introvert wrote: We don't know enough yet to make many judgments (so we csn hold off on comparing to the guy who went to kill Kavanaugh or the one attacked the GOP baseball game)... but we can already see the problem with having the volume turned to 11 on everything. It's bad to have people convincing themselves that democracy is on the line. Guess what, having a candidate shot and killed is also bad for democracy, almost by definition. Too much whishy-washy, mealy mouthed stuff already. This isn't worded accurately. It's bad that democracy really is on the line. Trump has been jeopardizing American democracy for years, with his rhetoric and actions, and his supporters are okay with undermining democracy too (which many of them may not realize they're doing, because they may sincerely believe the lies that Trump and other Republican leaders peddle about widespread voter fraud and a stolen 2020 election). Democrats aren't "convincing themselves" that Trump is a fascist; Democrats are accurately recognizing that Trump is a fascist. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43285 Posts
On July 14 2024 15:27 Kyadytim wrote: The FBI released the name of the shooter. He was registered as a Republican. This is, of course, not definitive proof that the shooter was not politically left of center, but it does appear less likely at the moment than it did a couple of hours ago. Looks like the shooter has at least one pro-left aspect and at least one pro-right aspect: "Records show Thomas Matthew Crooks, 20, was registered as a Republican voter in Pennsylvania, but federal campaign finance reports also show he gave $15 to a progressive political action committee on Jan. 20, 2021, the day President Joe Biden was sworn in to office." https://apnews.com/live/election-biden-trump-campaign-updates-07-13-2024 Without more information, both sides could easily speculate that the gunman was "on the other side". For example, Republicans could assert that the gunman registered as a Republican to mislead us. On the other hand, Democrats could assert that his left-wing donation after Biden's victory could have been him losing a bet on the election. | ||
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BlackJack
United States9914 Posts
On July 14 2024 12:51 zeo wrote: They went off the rails long ago. Its what happens when you normalise dehumanization against people that dont think the same way as your group. When everyone you don't like is Hitler its ok to use the legal system to hunt down your political opponents, and when that doesnt work its easy for them to rationalise hunting down people with guns. Pretty much. The delusions are a necessary component. Trans people are being genocided. Black people are being genocided by the police. The unvaccinated are the only reason we still have a pandemic. Trump is going to haul you away to the camps. You have to believe big lies about how evil the other people are in order to justify the dehumanization and hatred expressed towards them. As soon as you believe that Trump is literally Hitler you can easily justify an assassination attempt towards him. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland22494 Posts
On July 14 2024 16:37 BlackJack wrote: I attended a Joe Biden rally in 2008 and remember seeing snipes on basically every rooftop/vantage point. He was a candidate for Vice President at the time. Trump has arguably an exponentially larger target on his back. Seems they dropped the ball pretty hard here. Indeed. Incompetence before malice and all that, but I imagine this will be jumped upon from the usual suspects before long. On July 14 2024 17:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This isn't worded accurately. It's bad that democracy really is on the line. Trump has been jeopardizing American democracy for years, with his rhetoric and actions, and his supporters are okay with undermining democracy too (which many of them may not realize they're doing, because they may sincerely believe the lies that Trump and other Republican leaders peddle about widespread voter fraud and a stolen 2020 election). Democrats aren't "convincing themselves" that Trump is a fascist; Democrats are accurately recognizing that Trump is a fascist. Pretty much this. There were numerous opportune moments to hop off that train, now it appears to be travelling too fast to safely disembark. It’s either extreme ignorance, or extreme arrogance to think one can piss over various norms and ramp up the rhetoric without it having those negative impacts. In politics, as in many domains, actions have their associated reactions. Jan 6th was a pretty obvious time to if not dethrone Trump, which appears unviable, then to at least rein in his worst impulses and his party completely bottled it. | ||
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