|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
Northern Ireland22462 Posts
On August 13 2023 08:04 King_Charles_III wrote:
Deft application of soft power sure, but I'm not sure that tells us whether it was justified. One might also say "meddling in Pakistan's internal affairs via coercion." There's nothing inherently correct or proper or normal about it.
What are they supposed to do?
Pakistan have made their call. If they made a point of backing Khan they’d be open to acccusarions of manipulation for the benefit of US goals.
|
United States41386 Posts
On August 13 2023 08:04 King_Charles_III wrote:
Deft application of soft power sure, but I'm not sure that tells us whether it was justified. One might also say "meddling in Pakistan's internal affairs via coercion." There's nothing inherently correct or proper or normal about it.
Telling them that your preference is to work with an ally that agrees on common policy aims is not coercion.
|
On August 13 2023 08:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2023 08:04 King_Charles_III wrote:
Deft application of soft power sure, but I'm not sure that tells us whether it was justified. One might also say "meddling in Pakistan's internal affairs via coercion." There's nothing inherently correct or proper or normal about it. Telling them that your preference is to work with an ally that agrees on common policy aims is not coercion.
I mean they were going beyond encouraging them to find common ground there. The US told Pakistan that Pakistan would be isolated if it didn't replace its PM.
|
United States41386 Posts
On August 13 2023 18:18 King_Charles_III wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2023 08:15 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2023 08:04 King_Charles_III wrote:
Deft application of soft power sure, but I'm not sure that tells us whether it was justified. One might also say "meddling in Pakistan's internal affairs via coercion." There's nothing inherently correct or proper or normal about it. Telling them that your preference is to work with an ally that agrees on common policy aims is not coercion. I mean they were going beyond encouraging them to find common ground there. The US told Pakistan that Pakistan would be isolated if it didn't replace its PM.
Because it would be.
It’s not coercion, it’s a statement of fact. Cause and effect. The US, and the west in general, were disappointed with his stance on Ukraine. It is the act of a friend to let the Pakistani legislative know how their PM is harming their friendships with the west. They could use that information however they liked, completely free. They freely chose to replace a PM that was not acting in the best interest of Pakistan and was neglecting friendships with western partners.
The alternative would make no sense. Should the US have said nothing and just stopped returning Pakistan’s calls like a passive aggressive child? If someone is being a bad friend then a good friend tells them.
|
It would be isolated because the US would create the isolation in order to pressure them into changing their PM. Aka the US coerced them into changing their PM. I mean hell I don't doubt that it's in good faith to argue that the coercion was a good thing. That, i take it, is your stance: it was perfectly justified for the US to pressure Pakistan to change their PM. And that is one view. But at least we can confront the actual facts of what happened. "Deft application of soft power" would be a good euphemism: the US is the boss of Pakistan.
|
|
|
Everyone should go on standby for indictment number four to be unsealed tonight or tomorrow if they want to go home for the night. The Judge on camera handed off a stack of papers with the cover snapped by reporters saying that there are 10 indictments but not specifically what they are atm. Ted cruz says that there is a rumor that it could be RICO.
God this country is a circus. Hilldawg is on MSNBC atm and is refusing to gloat about it and just doing lizard person boring shit about "awh shucks things are bad and getting worse we don't have faith in ourselves or each other."
Just going to keep editing into this post. 19 people are charged including trump, specifics are coming. Coffee county officals aparently just allowed trumps team into its election computers and allowed them to access the software. They've got footage of them. 41 different charges press conference is imminent.
RICO count 1 for all 19. if it is convicted it carries a minimum of 5 years. It has 161 different acts qualifying for the RICO charge
One of the RICO acts is trump directing another person charged to disrupt and delay the ratification on jan 6th. .
Over 30 unindicted co conspirators possible they have turned states witness or the evidence just wasn't strong enough to charge them.
s3.documentcloud.org
94 pages go wild.
Press conference now. Full on calling it a criminal conspiracy. Alleges actions in other states done by the criminal enterprise. Arrest warents out for all charged and are allowed to turn themselves in by noon Friday the 25th. Local sheriff has stated repeatedly that he does not care about the "status" of anyone they will get a mug shot and fingerprinted.
Trial will want to be scheduled in the next 6 months.
|
The stuff about evidence of payment regarding the voting machine is potentially monumental. Will be interesting to see how that pans out. We know a lot, but we also don't know a lot.
Do we have any kinda estimation on timeline for the Georgia trial?
|
Always felt like the Georgia one is the most clear. That phonecall asking for votes is just too obvious to spin. Which is clear and why Fox News only defense is how corrupt Hunter Biden is.
Act 97 Trump calling the attorney general and asking him to "call the election corrupt and let the republican congress people handle it" is also insane.
Looking at the document it seems Mark Meadows and especially Giuliani are also in some very hot water now
|
That Trump committed multiple crimes isn't really reasonably (beyond the legal standard of presumed innocence) in question, the only part in question is what if any accountability he'll face for it.
Georgia is funny because it has mandatory minimums attached so it'd be harder to split the baby with a conviction without any substantive penalty.
If Biden restarts student loan payments (instead of continuing to use it as a threat), I'm not sure which would be more ridiculous, Trump winning from a Georgia prison cell, as a fugitive, or as someone exonerated for his (prison time) crimes. The wildest part being all of those are serious possibilities, with the least likely being Trump actually going to prison.
|
|
|
|
|
On August 16 2023 06:09 JimmiC wrote:
I’m confused, are you saying that if Biden restarts loan payments he for sure won’t win? Or were you equating it with criminality?
I suspect he won’t because why not kick the cam down the road and use it as an election tool. It even if he does can he not just blame the conservative Supreme Court?
Yeah like restarting payments will depress the economy a lot and depress enthusiasm the same as the effect of trump being behind bars for the election.
We won't get a trial date until next Friday or earlier when they surrender themselves to the Fulton county courthouse.
|
IIRC Congress mandated that the student loans restart? I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that’s not up to Biden any more. I mean, I guess he could just not comply with Congress, but that sounds like it would get overridden by the courts very quickly
|
On August 16 2023 06:28 JimmiC wrote:Trump is promising a report that will conclusively prove election fraud and there for prove his innocence. Odd timing to wait until now, I’m not going to hold my breath about him releasing any report let alone something with actual evidence. I’m really not sure how many times his supporters will keep believing chicken little when the sky never falls, but my guess is at least a couple more times! https://ca.yahoo.com/news/getting-indicted-over-election-lies-144906368.html
I'm sure he'll get around to providing proof of Biden stealing the election, right after he builds the border wall, replaces Obamacare with his own superior healthcare plan, and imprisons Hillary Clinton. Yep, any day now.
|
On August 16 2023 06:42 ChristianS wrote:
IIRC Congress mandated that the student loans restart? I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that’s not up to Biden any more. I mean, I guess he could just not comply with Congress, but that sounds like it would get overridden by the courts very quickly
He can't continue the "extension of the suspension of payments on certain loans and waivers of interest on such loans under section 3513 of the CARES Act" but he could end the extensions while also starting a new suspension without running afoul of the law.
The idea that he's powerless to stop it (besides being the guy who signed it into law) is just shoddy (or intentionally manipulative) reporting. Not that I'm saying you're doing that, but that's why people think it.
His admin said they were going to restart payments about this time anyway, so they don't see it as a problem/this isn't Republicans fault btw.
|
On August 16 2023 06:09 JimmiC wrote:
I’m confused, are you saying that if Biden restarts loan payments he for sure won’t win? Or were you equating it with criminality?
I suspect he won’t because why not kick the cam down the road and use it as an election tool. It even if he does can he not just blame the conservative Supreme Court?
Biden is probably toast if he restarts student loan payments.
Even if we ignore the argument regarding whether student loan forgiveness is ethical or not, the payments are so big that it will ruin many lives at this point.
The world is a very different place economically.
Step 1: Look at costs to get by before the payment freeze.
Step 2: Look at costs to get by today
Step 3: Add student loan payment onto that
Step 4: After 6 months, how much further behind is someone? How about a year?
It is a ton of money, right when people are already hurting. An extremely large amount of people are not in a position to pay their existing bills, let alone a new one.
Even if we entirely ignore the number of people who view student loans as unethical, the economy will be extremely damaged by these payments. The payments do not go into a place where the economy is lifted. They exclusively take away from economic boosts. People will tighten the belt, spend less, and suffer more. The economy will be hurt by all of those things. The political/sociological impact from the payments as an idea is just icing on the cake. Biden is going to be very hurt by the payments restarting.
|
|
|
People always blame the dude in the chair. Biden has ways to protect people from the payments. Whether or not he does that is up to him.
I do not have a magic 8ball, but I do know people are hanging by a thread as-is. And I do know people blame the dude in the chair. Republicans will vote for Trump regardless. Biden is the one with voters who use any form of decision making.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
