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So if someone misses a payment, does that not mean now the payment due next month is twice as much? Is the loan still accruing interest?
This mess of a situation regarding “technically you’re not delinquent” is incredibly silly and only highlights the fact that he’s choosing not to do anything else. There are plenty of ways he could fundamentally break the system as a whole or other aggressive moves to prevent this from being an issue.
If the balance is still going up, this whole “wink wink 1 year for the other thing to be done” is not an acceptable answer. Tons of people will make a payment when they are forced to. A lot of people will suffer because of this and will not take a leap of faith by not paying. Until the interest freezes and the payments remain fixed even after not paying, not nearly good enough.
And the fact remains he has plenty of ability to throw a wrench in the entire mechanism of student loan payments as a whole. If he wanted to provide immediate relief, he could.
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lmao, right, Millenials are offered just so many of the massive perks being a Boomer has gotten people, we have so much access to things like affordable housing and high wages, we're so lucky and blessed. Millenials have been spoiled by life just as much as Boomers for sure!
Its a losing issue with sociopaths who believe that because they have suffered so too must everyone else.
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On August 16 2023 22:19 Zambrah wrote:
lmao, right, Millenials are offered just so many of the massive perks being a Boomer has gotten people, we have so much access to things like affordable housing and high wages, we're so lucky and blessed. Millenials have been spoiled by life just as much as Boomers for sure!
Its a losing issue with sociopaths who believe that because they have suffered so too must everyone else.
You're interested in affordable housing. How do you feel about canceling housing debt (mortgages)?
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On August 16 2023 22:33 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2023 22:19 Zambrah wrote:
lmao, right, Millenials are offered just so many of the massive perks being a Boomer has gotten people, we have so much access to things like affordable housing and high wages, we're so lucky and blessed. Millenials have been spoiled by life just as much as Boomers for sure!
Its a losing issue with sociopaths who believe that because they have suffered so too must everyone else. You're interested in affordable housing. How do you feel about canceling housing debt (mortgages)?
For 17-year-olds who have bought houses? I would be open to considering it, but I can't imagine that that's a particularly large percentage of homeowners.
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On August 16 2023 22:33 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2023 22:19 Zambrah wrote:
lmao, right, Millenials are offered just so many of the massive perks being a Boomer has gotten people, we have so much access to things like affordable housing and high wages, we're so lucky and blessed. Millenials have been spoiled by life just as much as Boomers for sure!
Its a losing issue with sociopaths who believe that because they have suffered so too must everyone else. You're interested in affordable housing. How do you feel about canceling housing debt (mortgages)?
Free housing sounds like it'd be great
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Norway28781 Posts
On August 16 2023 22:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2023 22:33 oBlade wrote:On August 16 2023 22:19 Zambrah wrote:
lmao, right, Millenials are offered just so many of the massive perks being a Boomer has gotten people, we have so much access to things like affordable housing and high wages, we're so lucky and blessed. Millenials have been spoiled by life just as much as Boomers for sure!
Its a losing issue with sociopaths who believe that because they have suffered so too must everyone else. You're interested in affordable housing. How do you feel about canceling housing debt (mortgages)? For 17-year-olds who have bought houses? I would be open to considering it, but I can't imagine that that's a particularly large percentage of homeowners.
At least in Norway the chance that a home owner has received significant help from their parents increases the younger the home owner is so I dunno if that is a good comparison.
I've stated my opinion on this is the past. While it is obvious that something must be done as student debt is way out of control and totally bloated, I don't think blanket forgiveness sounds like a good policy. Very lenient halting of downpayments and interest reduction to near 0%? Totally on board. Add reforms to make future student loans much smaller? Obviously! But blanket forgiveness both gives a huge boost to people who make tons and essentially punishes a group of people who have behaved in a desirable way (focused on paying down their loans asap who might have lived frugally to accomplished this), and I also assume there are people who made the responsible choice of not attending college or attended a less expensive one specifically because they didn't want to accrue too much debt.
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On August 16 2023 22:50 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2023 22:33 oBlade wrote:On August 16 2023 22:19 Zambrah wrote:
lmao, right, Millenials are offered just so many of the massive perks being a Boomer has gotten people, we have so much access to things like affordable housing and high wages, we're so lucky and blessed. Millenials have been spoiled by life just as much as Boomers for sure!
Its a losing issue with sociopaths who believe that because they have suffered so too must everyone else. You're interested in affordable housing. How do you feel about canceling housing debt (mortgages)? Free housing sounds like it'd be great
Free cars too. What else can we finance and cancel so we can get for free? How about rolexes? Some nice latest generation computers. A boat? Private plane?
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You're conflating a right with a luxury, really?
Personally, I don't need to buy a house, but people who have bought a house, generally, have it easier finanially in life, I think.
Being poor - or rather, being below a certain threshold - is a system that often times keeps you there, simply because you can't get to the capital needed to afford getting into a better standard of living.
Also personally, I feel like we should focus on being happy with having a roof over the head, good food, affordable utilities, education and healthcare. (redistribution of) Wealth will only get you so far. Living a fulfulling life is way more important.
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United States43818 Posts
On August 16 2023 23:15 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2023 22:50 Zambrah wrote:On August 16 2023 22:33 oBlade wrote:On August 16 2023 22:19 Zambrah wrote:
lmao, right, Millenials are offered just so many of the massive perks being a Boomer has gotten people, we have so much access to things like affordable housing and high wages, we're so lucky and blessed. Millenials have been spoiled by life just as much as Boomers for sure!
Its a losing issue with sociopaths who believe that because they have suffered so too must everyone else. You're interested in affordable housing. How do you feel about canceling housing debt (mortgages)? Free housing sounds like it'd be great Free cars too. What else can we finance and cancel so we can get for free? How about rolexes? Some nice latest generation computers. A boat? Private plane?
Housing and education are basic societal necessities, not luxuries. They also result in broader societal benefits, we all benefit from having a housed and educated population. Having an unhoused and uneducated population is very expensive.
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But maybe university education is something that should generally be available to anyone who is qualified for it? Maybe there is a difference between educating the population and consume spending?
Isn't it good for the country if more people have better education? Any money you spend on education now pays huge dividents for the country in the next few decades. Only having education for those whose parents can afford it is a stupid waste of potential.
And i guess that is what student loans were supposed to do originally. Until some people figured out that they are also an amazing way of getting money out of people who don't have it yet, and who are not yet really capable of understanding just how much money they are spending.
The US education system is perverse and broken. Loan forgiveness is not the solution, but a real solution would involve the legislative actually doing something, and with half the country thinking that the government not doing anything is the ideal state of affairs, that isn't going to happen.
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There is a caveat about a (highly) educated populace though.
They become entitled. There are many professions nowadays that just won't be done by more educated people. We callt them bottleneck professions in Belgium.
There's also a reduction in childbirths.
Basically the second your population is edcuated to a certain degree, you need to import people to get a new "base layer" in society and restart your cycle of getting all of the educated andsoforth. This puts stress on the system.
I think if you want an educated population, you need technology to not lag behind, otherwise you get yourself in an internal conflict situation, nationally speaking.
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On August 17 2023 00:02 Uldridge wrote:
There is a caveat about a (highly) educated populace though.
They become entitled. There are many professions nowadays that just won't be done by more educated people. We callt them bottleneck professions in Belgium.
There's also a reduction in childbirths.
Basically the second your population is edcuated to a certain degree, you need to import people to get a new "base layer" in society and restart your cycle of getting all of the educated andsoforth. This puts stress on the system.
I think if you want an educated population, you need technology to not lag behind, otherwise you get yourself in an internal conflict situation, nationally speaking.
There are always people who can't really do education. Some people are less intelligent than others, others simply cannot deal with the processes necessary to absorb skills and information.
Money also helps. I think you would find that a lot more people would be willing to do the necessary jobs that educated people don't want to do if those jobs weren't also shittily paid.
And, as you mentioned, technology can also help. You can often replace a bunch of unskilled jobs with one skilled job.
Which i think are the three categories which solve this problem. Technology, Replacing repetitive tasks with skilled labor maintaining machines, money making necessary but unattractive jobs more attractive, and the people who simply cannot reach higher education.
And maybe it turns out that a bunch of those unattractive jobs are kind of pointless anyways. Like someone bagging your groceries, or a greeter at a supermarket.
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United States43818 Posts
On August 17 2023 00:02 Uldridge wrote:
There is a caveat about a (highly) educated populace though.
They become entitled. There are many professions nowadays that just won't be done by more educated people. We callt them bottleneck professions in Belgium.
There's also a reduction in childbirths.
Basically the second your population is edcuated to a certain degree, you need to import people to get a new "base layer" in society and restart your cycle of getting all of the educated andsoforth. This puts stress on the system.
I think if you want an educated population, you need technology to not lag behind, otherwise you get yourself in an internal conflict situation, nationally speaking.
Blue collar jobs still take education. Apprenticeships and so forth.
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On August 17 2023 00:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2023 00:02 Uldridge wrote:
There is a caveat about a (highly) educated populace though.
They become entitled. There are many professions nowadays that just won't be done by more educated people. We callt them bottleneck professions in Belgium.
There's also a reduction in childbirths.
Basically the second your population is edcuated to a certain degree, you need to import people to get a new "base layer" in society and restart your cycle of getting all of the educated andsoforth. This puts stress on the system.
I think if you want an educated population, you need technology to not lag behind, otherwise you get yourself in an internal conflict situation, nationally speaking. Blue collar jobs still take education. Apprenticeships and so forth.
The trick is bringing in enough foreigners to do those jobs, preferably in legal ways. The EU has been great for this, and wealth is much more evenly distributed now than 20 years ago.
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On August 17 2023 00:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2023 00:02 Uldridge wrote:
There is a caveat about a (highly) educated populace though.
They become entitled. There are many professions nowadays that just won't be done by more educated people. We callt them bottleneck professions in Belgium.
There's also a reduction in childbirths.
Basically the second your population is edcuated to a certain degree, you need to import people to get a new "base layer" in society and restart your cycle of getting all of the educated andsoforth. This puts stress on the system.
I think if you want an educated population, you need technology to not lag behind, otherwise you get yourself in an internal conflict situation, nationally speaking. Blue collar jobs still take education. Apprenticeships and so forth.
Grillers, waiters, cleaning people, restroom people, garbage collectors, certain admin jobs.
And again, bottleneck jobs already exist for a reason. Not necessarily education is even the problem here, they're unsatisfactory - I'd argue this comes due to a side effect of having a highly educated populace, people know to avoid these professions or get trapped in them. How do you solve this? Increase pay?
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On August 16 2023 23:55 Simberto wrote:
But maybe university education is something that should generally be available to anyone who is qualified for it? Maybe there is a difference between educating the population and consume spending?
Isn't it good for the country if more people have better education? Any money you spend on education now pays huge dividents for the country in the next few decades. Only having education for those whose parents can afford it is a stupid waste of potential.
And i guess that is what student loans were supposed to do originally. Until some people figured out that they are also an amazing way of getting money out of people who don't have it yet, and who are not yet really capable of understanding just how much money they are spending.
The US education system is perverse and broken. Loan forgiveness is not the solution, but a real solution would involve the legislative actually doing something, and with half the country thinking that the government not doing anything is the ideal state of affairs, that isn't going to happen.
Of course it should/is, same with housing.
Not really what student loans were originally for. They were created as an attempt to catch up to the Soviets in STEM in the 50's. In 1965 as part of Johnson's "Great Society" agenda he did claim that higher education was "no longer a luxury but a necessity" and marginally expanded the limited capacity of the programs to make that happen.
It wasn't until 1973 that the first major government loan program was established. It didn't take long for people to exploit the kids. Before the first people that got a loan from that program could graduate, Joe Biden made sure they and basically anyone that followed them would pretty much never be able to discharge those loans. This makes Biden's efforts come off like Malcolm's quote about progress to me.
The US system is perverse, but like many of the deplorable aspects of the US it isn't broken, it's working as designed.
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On August 16 2023 23:54 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2023 23:15 oBlade wrote:On August 16 2023 22:50 Zambrah wrote:On August 16 2023 22:33 oBlade wrote:On August 16 2023 22:19 Zambrah wrote:
lmao, right, Millenials are offered just so many of the massive perks being a Boomer has gotten people, we have so much access to things like affordable housing and high wages, we're so lucky and blessed. Millenials have been spoiled by life just as much as Boomers for sure!
Its a losing issue with sociopaths who believe that because they have suffered so too must everyone else. You're interested in affordable housing. How do you feel about canceling housing debt (mortgages)? Free housing sounds like it'd be great Free cars too. What else can we finance and cancel so we can get for free? How about rolexes? Some nice latest generation computers. A boat? Private plane? Housing and education are basic societal necessities, not luxuries. They also result in broader societal benefits, we all benefit from having a housed and educated population.
Many things result in benefits, we live in a world of limited resources in which those must be balanced against costs in any rational system. It plainly does not benefit you to pay my mortgage. It benefits society to have workers that are more productive than they cost.
You ignored cars because probably you see it's inconvenient - Cars are necessary in some locations. But is it necessary to live in those locations? Just because cars are necessary, does that mean you need the Audi? If you get the Audi, is it your neighbor's job to pay for it when he's got a 30 year old Honda? Would he have gotten an Audi too if he knew the game was going to change?
The fact that education is a benefit to society doesn't divide into that any specific level is necessary for each member of it. Nor that it's our job to pay for it. This is the same with housing. I want a 6bed 4bath waterfront with a runway. What's "necessary."
It's beneficial for an airplane to be lighter, that's not cause enough to make the wings out of paper or perform liposuction on every passenger.
If the education WERE so necessary for each of the members in question here, they would have the income to show for it that would enable them to kick their debt to the curb easily.
Is the internet not a societal necessity? A public option for ISPs and telecoms would be nice, but that doesn't take into account people who can't handle drowning in the monthly costs of their phone and data and internet plans. Surely they need some relief.
There are two directions here - A functioning system of economics and laws, or a gold rush to steal as much as possible from the government by voting for it. Either stealing in amounts that are small enough not to look like they matter (only hundreds of billions in comparison to a several trillion dollar budget) or by creating a huge coalition of everyone selflesly voting to steal things for each other's benefits. I'll vote for your student debt cancellation politician if he adopts my 6bed housing mortgage cancellation plan and my cousin's medical debt cancellation plan. The revolution that would be caused by the collapse when the economy goes where this unlegislated spending would inevitably take it, would not lead to the workers' utopia we'd like it to.
On August 16 2023 23:54 KwarK wrote:
Having an unhoused and uneducated population is very expensive.
Having a housed and educated population is what would be prohibitively expensive if the public sector were footing the bill.
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On August 17 2023 00:50 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2023 00:18 KwarK wrote:On August 17 2023 00:02 Uldridge wrote:
There is a caveat about a (highly) educated populace though.
They become entitled. There are many professions nowadays that just won't be done by more educated people. We callt them bottleneck professions in Belgium.
There's also a reduction in childbirths.
Basically the second your population is edcuated to a certain degree, you need to import people to get a new "base layer" in society and restart your cycle of getting all of the educated andsoforth. This puts stress on the system.
I think if you want an educated population, you need technology to not lag behind, otherwise you get yourself in an internal conflict situation, nationally speaking. Blue collar jobs still take education. Apprenticeships and so forth. Grillers, waiters, cleaning people, restroom people, garbage collectors, certain admin jobs. And again, bottleneck jobs already exist for a reason. Not necessarily education is even the problem here, they're unsatisfactory - I'd argue this comes due to a side effect of having a highly educated populace, people know to avoid these professions or get trapped in them. How do you solve this? Increase pay? I think pay is the fundamental problem yes.
You don't 'need' less educated people to do those so called bottleneck jobs. But they are hard and/or stressful jobs that give garbage pay. If you payed a nurse the same as a doctor I would suspect you have a much easier time finding more people willing to be a nurse.
But capitalism doesn't want to pay more for labour then it absolutely has to, much better to pocket all the money from the productivity then have to pay for it. So we'd rather pull in poor immigrants who will happily work for the royal salary of minimum wage then restructure our economy and society around actually paying for a persons time and effort.
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On August 17 2023 00:27 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2023 00:18 KwarK wrote:On August 17 2023 00:02 Uldridge wrote:
There is a caveat about a (highly) educated populace though.
They become entitled. There are many professions nowadays that just won't be done by more educated people. We callt them bottleneck professions in Belgium.
There's also a reduction in childbirths.
Basically the second your population is edcuated to a certain degree, you need to import people to get a new "base layer" in society and restart your cycle of getting all of the educated andsoforth. This puts stress on the system.
I think if you want an educated population, you need technology to not lag behind, otherwise you get yourself in an internal conflict situation, nationally speaking. Blue collar jobs still take education. Apprenticeships and so forth. The trick is bringing in enough foreigners to do those jobs, preferably in legal ways. The EU has been great for this, and wealth is much more evenly distributed now than 20 years ago.
What makes you say so? I read Piketty's book's recently, and from his data, things got worse in terms of wealth concentration the last few years. Granted, his data ends in 2010, but the prospects weren't great
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EPT
