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United States43203 Posts
On June 16 2023 04:40 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2023 23:53 JimmiC wrote:
Has there ever been a political movement dumber than MAGA? Yes.
There hasn’t though. He’s got a fifty year public record as a conman who steals from everyone he interacts with and they all know this and like it about him.
Then they try to donate to him and he enrolls them in recurring donations without their consent, drains their bank account, and steals the campaign funds to cover his own expenses by fraudulently billing his own campaign with fake invoices.
And the dumb red hats go “well I don’t agree with how he robbed me of my savings and I’m being foreclosed on because of it but I’m still going to vote for him”.
Just about the only thing Trump and I agree on is the naked contempt he has for his own supporters.
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United States43203 Posts
On June 16 2023 04:40 oBlade wrote:
he's in the middle of federal indictments on his birthday
I’m confused by this part about the birthday. Is it your position that people should be immune from criminal prosecutions on their birthday? Because if not I really don’t see the relevance of the date.
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On June 16 2023 05:41 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2023 23:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Nah that video is 3 years old, Shapiro radicalized around the republican strategist invented anti-trans panic just as much as the others. Joined the idiotic anti Bud Light thing etc Here's a recent video about him losing his mind about rainbows + Show Spoiler + Not really interested in watching this whole video, care to sum up the radicalness of it? Seems like he is mocking the corporate virtue signaling campaigns for Pride month. Ever seen the mashup that's been done of corporate websites for Pride month in the western world vs say the Middle East? Corporations care about profit, not advancing LGBT rights. If their pride campaigns went from boosting their ESG scores to hurting their bottom lines they would scale it back immediately as we saw with Target and Bud Light. If anything that sort of insincere virtual signaling is worthy of mockery. Also have you considered that 3 years later Ben Shapiro and others are more vocal about this because our society has been keen on making it more ubiquitous particularly to schoolchildren? We now have schools where they fly the Pride flag every day just under the American flag. There's a video going viral right now where a math class is shown some kind of Pride video and the students are told to shut up and threatened with detention for objecting. 3 years ago in Math class we probably just taught Math, as radical as a concept that may have been.
I don't care about the corporations involved, and yes of course they are doing it for marketing but at least they are marketing to them because they see them as normal people. I do think if you enjoy drinking some beer for a long time and then drop that and become a brand hater just because they give a personalized can to a trans person, then you have some introspection to do about why you have that much hatred for trans people. And the irony is now you have '100% gay and trans free conservative beer' brands selling to this croud of suckers for insane markups.
As to radical, he starts off by calling pride sodomy, then shows a rainbow Ford truck and complains that Ford is a manly brand and shouldn't sell to gays because they are apparently not men/manly, but then says well at least they don't sell to trans people like Bud Light. This is a truck or beer, sold to adults. That's part of not wanting trans to exist if companies are not 'allowed' to sell/market to them. Not to mention Target employees getting physically threatened by deranged angry people who watch content like Shapiros vid.
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On June 16 2023 10:34 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2023 05:41 BlackJack wrote:On June 15 2023 23:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Nah that video is 3 years old, Shapiro radicalized around the republican strategist invented anti-trans panic just as much as the others. Joined the idiotic anti Bud Light thing etc Here's a recent video about him losing his mind about rainbows + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEPOZH9_fyg Not really interested in watching this whole video, care to sum up the radicalness of it? Seems like he is mocking the corporate virtue signaling campaigns for Pride month. Ever seen the mashup that's been done of corporate websites for Pride month in the western world vs say the Middle East? Corporations care about profit, not advancing LGBT rights. If their pride campaigns went from boosting their ESG scores to hurting their bottom lines they would scale it back immediately as we saw with Target and Bud Light. If anything that sort of insincere virtual signaling is worthy of mockery. Also have you considered that 3 years later Ben Shapiro and others are more vocal about this because our society has been keen on making it more ubiquitous particularly to schoolchildren? We now have schools where they fly the Pride flag every day just under the American flag. There's a video going viral right now where a math class is shown some kind of Pride video and the students are told to shut up and threatened with detention for objecting. 3 years ago in Math class we probably just taught Math, as radical as a concept that may have been. I don't care about the corporations involved, and yes of course they are doing it for marketing but at least they are marketing to them because they see them as normal people. I do think if you enjoy drinking some beer for a long time and then drop that and become a brand hater just because they give a personalized can to a trans person, then you have some introspection to do about why you have that much hatred for trans people. And the irony is now you have ' 100% gay and trans free conservative beer' brands selling to this croud of suckers for insane markups. As to radical, he starts off by calling pride sodomy, then shows a rainbow Ford truck and complains that Ford is a manly brand and shouldn't sell to gays because they are apparently not men/manly, but then says well at least they don't sell to trans people like Bud Light. This is a truck or beer, sold to adults. That's part of not wanting trans to exist if companies are not 'allowed' to sell/market to them. Not to mention Target employees getting physically threatened by deranged angry people who watch content like Shapiros vid.
Bolded:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12192103/Target-stores-five-states-targeted-hoax-bomb-threats-amid-Pride-backlash.html
"Several local news outlets have claimed they have received the threatening emails, which claim bombs were placed inside their local Target stores.
This included Louisiana news outlet KLFY, which reported the hoax threat was motivated by backlash to Pride merchandise and corporate decisions to cave to the pressure.
'You have betrayed the LGBTQ+ community,' the email reportedly said.
'You are pathetic cowards who bowed to the wishes of far right extremists who want to exterminate us.
'We will not tolerate intolerance nor indifference. If you are not with us then you are against us. That is why we placed a bomb in each of your locations, evacuate now as this is only to cause economic damage.' "
I agree with "deranged", this emails however do not seem like send by Shapiro target audience...
Far right extremist are so horrible that they make good and peaceful folks sent bomb threats.
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On June 16 2023 23:27 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2023 21:55 Razyda wrote:On June 16 2023 10:34 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On June 16 2023 05:41 BlackJack wrote:On June 15 2023 23:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Nah that video is 3 years old, Shapiro radicalized around the republican strategist invented anti-trans panic just as much as the others. Joined the idiotic anti Bud Light thing etc Here's a recent video about him losing his mind about rainbows + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEPOZH9_fyg Not really interested in watching this whole video, care to sum up the radicalness of it? Seems like he is mocking the corporate virtue signaling campaigns for Pride month. Ever seen the mashup that's been done of corporate websites for Pride month in the western world vs say the Middle East? Corporations care about profit, not advancing LGBT rights. If their pride campaigns went from boosting their ESG scores to hurting their bottom lines they would scale it back immediately as we saw with Target and Bud Light. If anything that sort of insincere virtual signaling is worthy of mockery. Also have you considered that 3 years later Ben Shapiro and others are more vocal about this because our society has been keen on making it more ubiquitous particularly to schoolchildren? We now have schools where they fly the Pride flag every day just under the American flag. There's a video going viral right now where a math class is shown some kind of Pride video and the students are told to shut up and threatened with detention for objecting. 3 years ago in Math class we probably just taught Math, as radical as a concept that may have been. I don't care about the corporations involved, and yes of course they are doing it for marketing but at least they are marketing to them because they see them as normal people. I do think if you enjoy drinking some beer for a long time and then drop that and become a brand hater just because they give a personalized can to a trans person, then you have some introspection to do about why you have that much hatred for trans people. And the irony is now you have ' 100% gay and trans free conservative beer' brands selling to this croud of suckers for insane markups. As to radical, he starts off by calling pride sodomy, then shows a rainbow Ford truck and complains that Ford is a manly brand and shouldn't sell to gays because they are apparently not men/manly, but then says well at least they don't sell to trans people like Bud Light. This is a truck or beer, sold to adults. That's part of not wanting trans to exist if companies are not 'allowed' to sell/market to them. Not to mention Target employees getting physically threatened by deranged angry people who watch content like Shapiros vid. Bolded: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12192103/Target-stores-five-states-targeted-hoax-bomb-threats-amid-Pride-backlash.html"Several local news outlets have claimed they have received the threatening emails, which claim bombs were placed inside their local Target stores. This included Louisiana news outlet KLFY, which reported the hoax threat was motivated by backlash to Pride merchandise and corporate decisions to cave to the pressure. 'You have betrayed the LGBTQ+ community,' the email reportedly said. 'You are pathetic cowards who bowed to the wishes of far right extremists who want to exterminate us. 'We will not tolerate intolerance nor indifference. If you are not with us then you are against us. That is why we placed a bomb in each of your locations, evacuate now as this is only to cause economic damage.' " I agree with "deranged", this emails however do not seem like send by Shapiro target audience... Far right extremist are so horrible that they make good and peaceful folks sent bomb threats. Were you under the impression that there were only extremists on one side? Did target bow to these ones? Interesting that these threats were explicitly non violent.I do not think this is the own you think it is.
Bolded: " which claim bombs were placed inside their local Target stores. " non violent - when you right, you right...
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On June 16 2023 23:59 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2023 23:50 Razyda wrote:On June 16 2023 23:27 JimmiC wrote:On June 16 2023 21:55 Razyda wrote:On June 16 2023 10:34 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On June 16 2023 05:41 BlackJack wrote:On June 15 2023 23:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Nah that video is 3 years old, Shapiro radicalized around the republican strategist invented anti-trans panic just as much as the others. Joined the idiotic anti Bud Light thing etc Here's a recent video about him losing his mind about rainbows + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEPOZH9_fyg Not really interested in watching this whole video, care to sum up the radicalness of it? Seems like he is mocking the corporate virtue signaling campaigns for Pride month. Ever seen the mashup that's been done of corporate websites for Pride month in the western world vs say the Middle East? Corporations care about profit, not advancing LGBT rights. If their pride campaigns went from boosting their ESG scores to hurting their bottom lines they would scale it back immediately as we saw with Target and Bud Light. If anything that sort of insincere virtual signaling is worthy of mockery. Also have you considered that 3 years later Ben Shapiro and others are more vocal about this because our society has been keen on making it more ubiquitous particularly to schoolchildren? We now have schools where they fly the Pride flag every day just under the American flag. There's a video going viral right now where a math class is shown some kind of Pride video and the students are told to shut up and threatened with detention for objecting. 3 years ago in Math class we probably just taught Math, as radical as a concept that may have been. I don't care about the corporations involved, and yes of course they are doing it for marketing but at least they are marketing to them because they see them as normal people. I do think if you enjoy drinking some beer for a long time and then drop that and become a brand hater just because they give a personalized can to a trans person, then you have some introspection to do about why you have that much hatred for trans people. And the irony is now you have ' 100% gay and trans free conservative beer' brands selling to this croud of suckers for insane markups. As to radical, he starts off by calling pride sodomy, then shows a rainbow Ford truck and complains that Ford is a manly brand and shouldn't sell to gays because they are apparently not men/manly, but then says well at least they don't sell to trans people like Bud Light. This is a truck or beer, sold to adults. That's part of not wanting trans to exist if companies are not 'allowed' to sell/market to them. Not to mention Target employees getting physically threatened by deranged angry people who watch content like Shapiros vid. Bolded: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12192103/Target-stores-five-states-targeted-hoax-bomb-threats-amid-Pride-backlash.html"Several local news outlets have claimed they have received the threatening emails, which claim bombs were placed inside their local Target stores. This included Louisiana news outlet KLFY, which reported the hoax threat was motivated by backlash to Pride merchandise and corporate decisions to cave to the pressure. 'You have betrayed the LGBTQ+ community,' the email reportedly said. 'You are pathetic cowards who bowed to the wishes of far right extremists who want to exterminate us. 'We will not tolerate intolerance nor indifference. If you are not with us then you are against us. That is why we placed a bomb in each of your locations, evacuate now as this is only to cause economic damage.' " I agree with "deranged", this emails however do not seem like send by Shapiro target audience... Far right extremist are so horrible that they make good and peaceful folks sent bomb threats. Were you under the impression that there were only extremists on one side? Did target bow to these ones? Interesting that these threats were explicitly non violent.I do not think this is the own you think it is. Bolded: " which claim bombs were placed inside their local Target stores. " non violent - when you right, you right... You quoted this, do you not read what you quote? I mean not going through the article is kinda embarrassing. Not reading even the parts you quoted, that is next level. It helps to explain your world view though. Show nested quote + That is why we placed a bomb in each of your locations, evacuate now as this is only to cause economic damage.' "
Even a bomb threat that is only intended to do economic damage is violent.
If this was some MAGA crazies threatening bombs but only for economic damage you'd be yelling about far right terrorism, and be justified.
The only right response isn't to point out isn't that this is non-violent, when it obviously isn't, it's to point out that yes, this was left-wing terrorism, condemn it, and if you want to discuss something, ask if Razyda wants to say that the terrorism somehow justifies Target's anti-LGBTQ stance? Or are they right, just taking very wrong actions?
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Sometimes violence is the answer. You don't think Martin Luther King Jr. was able to do what he did without Malcolm X stirring the shit do you? Sometimes you need someone like Sasuke to do the dirty work so people will listen to Naruto. As for Mahatma Gandhi...actually, I don't know who the shit-stirring counterpart to Gandhi was, but there has to be one.
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On June 17 2023 00:13 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2023 23:59 JimmiC wrote:On June 16 2023 23:50 Razyda wrote:On June 16 2023 23:27 JimmiC wrote:On June 16 2023 21:55 Razyda wrote:On June 16 2023 10:34 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On June 16 2023 05:41 BlackJack wrote:On June 15 2023 23:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Nah that video is 3 years old, Shapiro radicalized around the republican strategist invented anti-trans panic just as much as the others. Joined the idiotic anti Bud Light thing etc Here's a recent video about him losing his mind about rainbows + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEPOZH9_fyg Not really interested in watching this whole video, care to sum up the radicalness of it? Seems like he is mocking the corporate virtue signaling campaigns for Pride month. Ever seen the mashup that's been done of corporate websites for Pride month in the western world vs say the Middle East? Corporations care about profit, not advancing LGBT rights. If their pride campaigns went from boosting their ESG scores to hurting their bottom lines they would scale it back immediately as we saw with Target and Bud Light. If anything that sort of insincere virtual signaling is worthy of mockery. Also have you considered that 3 years later Ben Shapiro and others are more vocal about this because our society has been keen on making it more ubiquitous particularly to schoolchildren? We now have schools where they fly the Pride flag every day just under the American flag. There's a video going viral right now where a math class is shown some kind of Pride video and the students are told to shut up and threatened with detention for objecting. 3 years ago in Math class we probably just taught Math, as radical as a concept that may have been. I don't care about the corporations involved, and yes of course they are doing it for marketing but at least they are marketing to them because they see them as normal people. I do think if you enjoy drinking some beer for a long time and then drop that and become a brand hater just because they give a personalized can to a trans person, then you have some introspection to do about why you have that much hatred for trans people. And the irony is now you have ' 100% gay and trans free conservative beer' brands selling to this croud of suckers for insane markups. As to radical, he starts off by calling pride sodomy, then shows a rainbow Ford truck and complains that Ford is a manly brand and shouldn't sell to gays because they are apparently not men/manly, but then says well at least they don't sell to trans people like Bud Light. This is a truck or beer, sold to adults. That's part of not wanting trans to exist if companies are not 'allowed' to sell/market to them. Not to mention Target employees getting physically threatened by deranged angry people who watch content like Shapiros vid. Bolded: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12192103/Target-stores-five-states-targeted-hoax-bomb-threats-amid-Pride-backlash.html"Several local news outlets have claimed they have received the threatening emails, which claim bombs were placed inside their local Target stores. This included Louisiana news outlet KLFY, which reported the hoax threat was motivated by backlash to Pride merchandise and corporate decisions to cave to the pressure. 'You have betrayed the LGBTQ+ community,' the email reportedly said. 'You are pathetic cowards who bowed to the wishes of far right extremists who want to exterminate us. 'We will not tolerate intolerance nor indifference. If you are not with us then you are against us. That is why we placed a bomb in each of your locations, evacuate now as this is only to cause economic damage.' " I agree with "deranged", this emails however do not seem like send by Shapiro target audience... Far right extremist are so horrible that they make good and peaceful folks sent bomb threats. Were you under the impression that there were only extremists on one side? Did target bow to these ones? Interesting that these threats were explicitly non violent.I do not think this is the own you think it is. Bolded: " which claim bombs were placed inside their local Target stores. " non violent - when you right, you right... You quoted this, do you not read what you quote? I mean not going through the article is kinda embarrassing. Not reading even the parts you quoted, that is next level. It helps to explain your world view though. That is why we placed a bomb in each of your locations, evacuate now as this is only to cause economic damage.' "
Even a bomb threat that is only intended to do economic damage is violent. If this was some MAGA crazies threatening bombs but only for economic damage you'd be yelling about far right terrorism, and be justified. The only right response isn't to point out isn't that this is non-violent, when it obviously isn't, it's to point out that yes, this was left-wing terrorism, condemn it, and if you want to discuss something, ask if Razyda wants to say that the terrorism somehow justifies Target's anti-LGBTQ stance? Or are they right, just taking very wrong actions?
In all honesty I dont see Target stance as anti-LGBTQ. Target issue started with them having display of Pride merchandise for kids at the entrance to the store and people were not happy only about the kids part. I dont think there were any actual acts of violence (I think there was only mention by Target that they were afraid for safety of their workers - I may be wrong on that, so if anyone have proof confirming this is not the case I stand corrected). Target I think removed kids merchandise and move rest of display to the back of the stores. Thats hardly anti-LGBTQ stance, also I dont think they caved to terrorists, but simply tried to protect their profits, aware what happen with Bud Light.
As for Bud Light - here I think it was just bad place/bad time situation and quite frankly if they did the same thing last year nobody would even noticed, let alone care. However with both sides dead set on escalating the issue rather than trying to find solution, people got fed up and acted out. In a manner of speaking Bud Light became a straw which broke Camel back.
Edit:
On June 17 2023 00:55 riotjune wrote:
Sometimes violence is the answer. You don't think Martin Luther King Jr. was able to do what he did without Malcolm X stirring the shit do you? Sometimes you need someone like Sasuke to do the dirty work so people will listen to Naruto. As for Mahatma Gandhi...actually, I don't know who the shit-stirring counterpart to Gandhi was, but there has to be one.
I think you should be really careful what you wish for. Especially that if there were any sort of open conflict I'll put dollars to doughnuts on Conservatives.
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On June 17 2023 00:55 riotjune wrote:
Sometimes violence is the answer. You don't think Martin Luther King Jr. was able to do what he did without Malcolm X stirring the shit do you? Sometimes you need someone like Sasuke to do the dirty work so people will listen to Naruto. As for Mahatma Gandhi...actually, I don't know who the shit-stirring counterpart to Gandhi was, but there has to be one.
Saying violence is justified is also a reasonable position to defend here. Claiming it somehow *isn't* violence however, is just dumb.
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On June 16 2023 08:02 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2023 04:40 oBlade wrote:On June 15 2023 23:53 JimmiC wrote:
Has there ever been a political movement dumber than MAGA? Yes. There hasn’t though. He’s got a fifty year public record as a conman who steals from everyone he interacts with and they all know this and like it about him. Then they try to donate to him and he enrolls them in recurring donations without their consent, drains their bank account, and steals the campaign funds to cover his own expenses by fraudulently billing his own campaign with fake invoices. And the dumb red hats go “well I don’t agree with how he robbed me of my savings and I’m being foreclosed on because of it but I’m still going to vote for him”. Just about the only thing Trump and I agree on is the naked contempt he has for his own supporters.
You're reading the idea of the MAGA political movement as "dissatisfied Trump donors" when it's a group of people, whether you agree with them or not, vote for and run for and occupy positions in government based on a platform of multiple ideas and policies.
My guess is the group of people you're theorycrafting about isn't very numerous in reality - probably a bigger cause of foreclosure than loss of life savings to political donation would be failure to meet mortgage payments due to the loss of jobs, and the tightness of meeting payments for anyone who has bought a house with elevated interest rates in the last couple of years - which is due to economic recession caused by unrestricted bipartisan spending, incompetent government stewardship of the market in multiple industries, and asinine regulation. In my opinion.
But for the sake of argument, there would probably be selection bias at work because without knowing the data it wouldn't surprise me to know that mortgage holders lean Republican over Democrat - because the data does show that Republicans would dominate elections held only among taxpayers. I would expect the base of subsistence renters without mortgages who live in urban centers to be more Democrat, so it's not profound to say they haven't lost mortgages that they don't have. But this is a digression.
The bottom line is I would have a lot of respect for someone who, despite abject poverty, voted with the principles in their heart and the arguments in their mind rather than rubber stamping a ballot for the party they think could buy their vote with free shit and broken and empty promises.
Just to start with, the temperance movement, Texas secessionism, the Green Party, Maoism, the Tea Party, anti-nuclear environmentalism, creationism, antifa, in fact Marxism and communism in general (even allowing the criteria is stupidity, not simply cruelty), voluntary extinctionism, antinatalism, to me as political movements these are all clearly lower on the good idea pole than MAGA even in its least charitable form.
But how lucky are those of us, that after we've been born into the world and just when we've personally reached the age of maturity, suddenly find ourselves, in the very world and the very time, with the single stupidest and most evil political movement in history, right before our eyes? So fortunate to have the easiest and most obvious political views that it's ever been possible to have. No need to think any further. (That is, until the next Republican comes along in 8 years and we have to extend the hyperbole - I'm old enough to remember when Bush was considered the fascist. Now DeSantis is worse than Hitler and even worse than Trump, and Bush is a de facto Democrat in the eyes of the corporate media.)
On June 16 2023 08:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2023 04:40 oBlade wrote:
he's in the middle of federal indictments on his birthday
I’m confused by this part about the birthday. Is it your position that people should be immune from criminal prosecutions on their birthday? Because if not I really don’t see the relevance of the date.
You should have read the post I was replying to and not just mine before arriving at a self-evidently absurd conclusion by having taken the word "birthday" and built an entire straw argument around it. It's a pretty simple point that he has other things going on in his life than just being a pullstring doll that goes "Build the wall" whenever JimmiC expects him to - and that it's a moot line of criticism to begin with because if one doesn't agree with him on immigration, one should be happy that he supposedly hasn't said a "peep" about it - or conversely if one did in fact think there were a border crisis, the operative target of criticism should be the administration that's actually in power. There's no principles underlying these opportunistic heckles.
But since you asked, in point of fact, I believe the only things that should protect people from criminal prosecutions are good old-fashioned cronyism, money, corruption, nepotism, and blackmail.
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United States43203 Posts
On June 17 2023 01:42 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2023 08:08 KwarK wrote:On June 16 2023 04:40 oBlade wrote:
he's in the middle of federal indictments on his birthday
I’m confused by this part about the birthday. Is it your position that people should be immune from criminal prosecutions on their birthday? Because if not I really don’t see the relevance of the date. You should have read the post I was replying to and not just mine before arriving at a self-evidently absurd conclusion by having taken the word "birthday" and built an entire straw argument around it. It's a pretty simple point that he has other things going on in his life than just being a pullstring doll that goes "Build the wall" whenever JimmiC expects him to - and that it's a moot line of criticism to begin with because if one doesn't agree with him on immigration, one should be happy that he supposedly hasn't said a "peep" about it - or conversely if one did in fact think there were a border crisis, the operative target of criticism should be the administration that's actually in power. There's no principles underlying these opportunistic heckles. But since you asked, in point of fact, I believe the only things that should protect people from criminal prosecutions are good old-fashioned cronyism, money, corruption, nepotism, and blackmail.
If the birthday part wasn’t relevant why’d you include it? It’s not unreasonable to ask you to defend your own words. If an argument so weak that it can only be a straw man has been created then it has been created by you when you specifically singled out the birthday as a grievance.
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the temperance movement, Texas secessionism, the Green Party, Maoism, the Tea Party, anti-nuclear environmentalism, creationism, antifa, in fact Marxism and communism in general (even allowing the criteria is stupidity, not simply cruelty), voluntary extinctionism, antinatalism,
The thing behind all these movements thought is at least decent intentions or have some merit in what they want. Alcoholism is bad just look at Russia, Self determination is a valid argument, the green party wants the environment to be good and not leave the next generation a burning husk of a planet, Maoism had a lot of resentment of rual interest vs Urban interests and was based on legitimate economic theory, Nuclear accidents have happened and are bad, creationism is harmless in practice and has at least attempted to incorporate legitimate science in a different interpretation, That crazy noahs arc museum may lie about things but has legitimate science on display, Don't know why being against facism is stupid to you but you do you, Marxism and communism isn't stupid it has a legitimate basis and has been used successfully in a lot of sectors but thats a lot larger conversation, Voluntary extincitionism and antinatalism are basically the same thing are at least trying to solve a real problem in overpopulation and in function are inherently beneficial for those that don't follow it.
MAGA at its core is a dogwhistle that has no meaning and only exists to make the world worse. The most simple way to show this is to ask any follower or supporter the simple question "When do you think America was great?". They can either not answer the question or they have to self report on themselves for what kind of person they are. Is it when black people were slaves? When women couldn't vote? civil rights? gay people being able to marry? Black president? In reality its entirely filled with people following a guy who constantly lies to them and steals from them. Its filled with culty conspiracy theorists with no grasp on reality and a less of a grasp on any sort of evidence. It has no positive intentions and has no merits to speak of.
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On June 17 2023 02:49 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +the temperance movement, Texas secessionism, the Green Party, Maoism, the Tea Party, anti-nuclear environmentalism, creationism, antifa, in fact Marxism and communism in general (even allowing the criteria is stupidity, not simply cruelty), voluntary extinctionism, antinatalism, MAGA at its core is a dogwhistle that has no meaning and only exists to make the world worse. The most simple way to show this is to ask any follower or supporter the simple question "When do you think America was great?". They can either not answer the question or they have to self report on themselves for what kind of person they are. Is it when black people were slaves? When women couldn't vote? civil rights? gay people being able to marry? Black president? In reality its entirely filled with people following a guy who constantly lies to them and steals from them. Its filled with culty conspiracy theorists with no grasp on reality and a less of a grasp on any sort of evidence. It has no positive intentions and has no merits to speak of.
I dont know much about MAGA, but my understanding was, that it refers to a time when someone could work hard and make decent living (eg buy a house without much effort, while providing for family) Not sure when exactly that was but if someone say: sixty's because life was better - it doesnt mean he is a racist, if someone says eighties because they think that when it was - it doesnt make him opponent to gay marriages. I heard this kind of arguments but always dismissed them thinking people are joking. Last time I heard it was when someone said they liked News anchor (dont remember name) from like 70s I think and was immediately accused of being racist and chauvinist because at that time most people at the news were mostly white males...
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On June 17 2023 03:37 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2023 03:24 Razyda wrote:On June 17 2023 02:49 Sermokala wrote:the temperance movement, Texas secessionism, the Green Party, Maoism, the Tea Party, anti-nuclear environmentalism, creationism, antifa, in fact Marxism and communism in general (even allowing the criteria is stupidity, not simply cruelty), voluntary extinctionism, antinatalism, MAGA at its core is a dogwhistle that has no meaning and only exists to make the world worse. The most simple way to show this is to ask any follower or supporter the simple question "When do you think America was great?". They can either not answer the question or they have to self report on themselves for what kind of person they are. Is it when black people were slaves? When women couldn't vote? civil rights? gay people being able to marry? Black president? In reality its entirely filled with people following a guy who constantly lies to them and steals from them. Its filled with culty conspiracy theorists with no grasp on reality and a less of a grasp on any sort of evidence. It has no positive intentions and has no merits to speak of. I dont know much about MAGA, but my understanding was, that it refers to a time when someone could work hard and make decent living (eg buy a house without much effort, while providing for family) Not sure when exactly that was but if someone say: sixty's because life was better - it doesnt mean he is a racist, if someone says eighties because they think that when it was - it doesnt make him opponent to gay marriages. I heard this kind of arguments but always dismissed them thinking people are joking. Last time I heard it was when someone said they liked News anchor (dont remember name) from like 70s I think and was immediately accused of being racist and chauvinist because at that time most people at the news were mostly white males... The problem with your theory is the party of MAGA is anti LGBTQ2 and proud of it, they are anti abortion, they are not quite explicitly racist but people who are support them and go to their conferences. The basic root of MAGA is that some "others" have made it bad for you, vote for us and we will punish them. But its always a "they" so it can fit anyone's hate.
This poll from Reuters/Ipsos seem to disagree with you:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/USA-ELECTION-TRUMP-MAGA/0H001BBVZ2XL/index.html
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EPT
