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The emails are so insignificant that we're still talking about them 7 years later. Sounds about right.
"Don't tear the country apart" by simply proceeding with an open-shut case against Trump for possessing, hiding, and distributing documents he had no business having. You wanna know why Biden's not still in the news for having a few classified documents? He made sure they were returned as quickly as possible.
Take back the hostage taking rhetoric. We aren't dividing anything by saying you get the consequences for your actions as opposed to just being able to take whatever you want.
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United States24565 Posts
If it's no big deal to bring nuclear secrets home from work, why can't I do it? This is BS!
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On June 12 2023 03:58 micronesia wrote:If it's no big deal to bring nuclear secrets home from work, why can't I do it? This is BS!  If there was one person I'd trust with nuclear secrets, it's a man named micronesia!
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It doesn't seem like this new indictment has changed many opinions. GOP voters still largely stick with Trump and feel he is being persecuted by politically motivated prosecutors. I don't even think Trump getting convicted would do anything to change their minds. He'd just become a martyr.
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On June 12 2023 03:41 NewSunshine wrote: The emails are so insignificant that we're still talking about them 7 years later. Sounds about right.
"Don't tear the country apart" by simply proceeding with an open-shut case against Trump for possessing, hiding, and distributing documents he had no business having. You wanna know why Biden's not still in the news for having a few classified documents? He made sure they were returned as quickly as possible.
Take back the hostage taking rhetoric. We aren't dividing anything by saying you get the consequences for your actions as opposed to just being able to take whatever you want.
Wasn't just Biden, Pence did the same thing and returned the documents when asked to. Trump's the only one different who actively misled and obstructed the process of returning classified documents.
On June 12 2023 11:50 gobbledydook wrote: It doesn't seem like this new indictment has changed many opinions. GOP voters still largely stick with Trump and feel he is being persecuted by politically motivated prosecutors. I don't even think Trump getting convicted would do anything to change their minds. He'd just become a martyr.
I mean, they voted for the guy despite that man admitting in 4K that he sexually assaulted women. And that's after they spent decades promoting social morality in the form of family values as a keystone of their political movement. They've basically admitted that they don't really care about the morality and only care about winning. And Trump's best strength is owning the libs so not much of a surprise why they still back their quarterback.
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Northern Ireland23756 Posts
On June 12 2023 11:50 gobbledydook wrote: It doesn't seem like this new indictment has changed many opinions. GOP voters still largely stick with Trump and feel he is being persecuted by politically motivated prosecutors. I don't even think Trump getting convicted would do anything to change their minds. He'd just become a martyr. He’ll be a martyr regardless
Perhaps the best outcome in terms of the country not becoming even more of a polarised shitshow than it is currently would have been Trump riding off into the sunset. A few token slaps on the wrist to placate some folks, don’t rile up the other half of the country. Not my preference but I can see some theoretical appeal
As Trump resolutely isn’t doing that, some chickens have to come home to roost. January 6th, mishandling top secret documents. Bad enough for a former President, now private citizen, but for a bloke who’s seeking and may get that office again?
It’ll ruffle some feathers but what’s the alternative? A precedent that if you cultivate a sufficiently large outrage machine, that you’re unprosecutable?
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On June 13 2023 00:58 JimmiC wrote: But why is the country riled up? It is so confusing.
Like if Biden did the exact same thing, took classified info he was not supposed to have, to a non secure site and was unwilling or unable to give it back. At worst he's a traitor (which if it was Biden all reps would think that) and at best he is not competent to hold the office and handle the responsibility.
There is no conspiracy. No one is denying the facts. Trump took em and won't give em back. Should presidents from either party be allowed to do this, or anyone be aloud to do this outside of the predetermined proper channels. Of course the answer is no as soon as it not "your guy" so clearly the answer has to be no for everyone.
There has been tons of stupidity surrounding the MAGA movement and it hard to pick the dumbest but this is right up there. Anyone who wants him to hold office has turned off their brain. If you like his policies pick and less criminal or incompetent (or preferably both) person. But Hillary's emails!
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On June 13 2023 00:58 JimmiC wrote: But why is the country riled up? It is so confusing.
Like if Biden did the exact same thing, took classified info he was not supposed to have, to a non secure site and was unwilling or unable to give it back. At worst he's a traitor (which if it was Biden all reps would think that) and at best he is not competent to hold the office and handle the responsibility.
There is no conspiracy. No one is denying the facts. Trump took em and won't give em back. Should presidents from either party be allowed to do this, or anyone be aloud to do this outside of the predetermined proper channels. Of course the answer is no as soon as it not "your guy" so clearly the answer has to be no for everyone.
There has been tons of stupidity surrounding the MAGA movement and it hard to pick the dumbest but this is right up there. Anyone who wants him to hold office has turned off their brain. If you like his policies pick and less criminal or incompetent (or preferably both) person. Because Republican America has descended so deeply into tribalism that it doesn't matter what you do, only who did it.
Trump is 'their guy' so he can do no wrong, even if he steals and brags about stealing literal nuclear secrets, directly instigates a insurrection aiming to overthrow democracy or shoot someone in front of camera's on 5th avenue.
The question of what you can do without further polarizing the country feels silly to me. Outside of an actual full blown civil war, how much polarizing can America get? Heck, if you go the more 'extreme' side of the already extreme Republicans your going to find an awful lot of people who will tell you that they are actually fighting a civil war.
Republicans are still to this day defending and denying an actual insurrection attempt aimed at overthrowing democracy in the US.
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Psychologists have done a lot of work analyzing things like cult dynamics and brainwashing. By the time we're at the point where Trumpers are hanging in there in the face of everything that's going on, you're dealing with people whose psychology has been fundamentally altered. The very things that you think should finally convince them they're wrong only convince them they're more correct instead. That's how they've gotten to this point, if logic and reason and criminal charges could overturn that they never would've gotten this far. We've said it a thousand times in a thousand different ways, but you really can't reason with them. They live in a world of delusion completely divorced from reality.
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Northern Ireland23756 Posts
On June 13 2023 01:41 NewSunshine wrote: Psychologists have done a lot of work analyzing things like cult dynamics and brainwashing. By the time we're at the point where Trumpers are hanging in there in the face of everything that's going on, you're dealing with people whose psychology has been fundamentally altered. The very things that you think should finally convince them they're wrong only convince them they're more correct instead. That's how they've gotten to this point, if logic and reason and criminal charges could overturn that they never would've gotten this far. We've said it a thousand times in a thousand different ways, but you really can't reason with them. They live in a world of delusion completely divorced from reality. Pretty much
For whatever reason it seems the modern era has taken a mentality generally reserved for isolated cults and pushed that out on a macro level
Swapped out a David Coresh (Koresh?) and an isolated commune for a Trump and millions of converts.
Can’t lie and say this doesn’t work the other side of the aisle but it does feel noticeably less pronounced
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On June 13 2023 01:41 NewSunshine wrote: Psychologists have done a lot of work analyzing things like cult dynamics and brainwashing. By the time we're at the point where Trumpers are hanging in there in the face of everything that's going on, you're dealing with people whose psychology has been fundamentally altered. The very things that you think should finally convince them they're wrong only convince them they're more correct instead. That's how they've gotten to this point, if logic and reason and criminal charges could overturn that they never would've gotten this far. We've said it a thousand times in a thousand different ways, but you really can't reason with them. They live in a world of delusion completely divorced from reality. I dunno how many people remember him, but a regular around here who was banned post-trump who went by xDaunt was an interesting case study in that. You can look through his posts in 2012, then the months leading up to the 2016 republican primary, then after the primary. It was truly fascinating to follow. I even once asked him to reconcile what he said about trump before and after and all I could ever get was the typical stuff we would all expect. It felt like it isn’t even really something they are able to perceive. They see it as information/situations changed. I think what happens is that people essentially re-analyze the past by using present perspectives. So they are thereby able to rewrite the past in their minds so that it’s all self-consistent.
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On June 13 2023 03:35 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2023 01:41 NewSunshine wrote: Psychologists have done a lot of work analyzing things like cult dynamics and brainwashing. By the time we're at the point where Trumpers are hanging in there in the face of everything that's going on, you're dealing with people whose psychology has been fundamentally altered. The very things that you think should finally convince them they're wrong only convince them they're more correct instead. That's how they've gotten to this point, if logic and reason and criminal charges could overturn that they never would've gotten this far. We've said it a thousand times in a thousand different ways, but you really can't reason with them. They live in a world of delusion completely divorced from reality. I dunno how many people remember him, but a regular around here who was banned post-trump who went by xDaunt was an interesting case study in that. You can look through his posts in 2012, then the months leading up to the 2016 republican primary, then after the primary. It was truly fascinating to follow. I even once asked him to reconcile what he said about trump before and after and all I could ever get was the typical stuff we would all expect. It felt like it isn’t even really something they are able to perceive. They see it as information/situations changed. I think what happens is that people essentially re-analyze the past by using present perspectives. So they are thereby able to rewrite the past in their minds so that it’s all self-consistent.
I look at this the same ways as love and religion. Both can be retrofitted for a predetermined point of view, and we all do it.
It does happen that people stop loving their parents or throw the religious beliefs of their teens out the window when faced with events or information, but it is very rare.
Unfortunately, a similar type of non rational mindset can happen with politicians and other idols.
I remember that the Tour de France PED scandals and SC2 Life matchfixing as events which DID force me to change a point of view, but I was not a big enough fanboy of neither to make it difficult.
I probably also admire/love some people to the degree that I will forgive them almost anything, but I don't even want to think about that too much.
Humans are strange beings.
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On June 15 2023 00:44 JimmiC wrote: What’s the Republican position on a trans women baring her breasts in public. If they consider her a man it is completely fine, correct?
That would make sense, so it is almost certainly not the republican position.
My guess is that their position is that she shouldn't be in public, or ideally that she should not exist at all.
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If Ben Shapiro's tweets are anything to go by, the official GOP position is "look at this depravity, told you we shouldn't allow trans people to exist".
Which... yeah.
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I don't follow Ben Shaprio's twitter (or anyone's), where did he say trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist? Sounds unlike something he would say.
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Ben Shapiro believes that gender is binary, assigned at birth according to biology, and cannot be changed. He believes that so called gender dysphoria is an illness. He also dismisses all other interpretations of gender as biologically incorrect and therefore wrong.
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