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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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Bobert aparently said last night that no one in leadership was an aceptable alternative to mccarthy. if the hardcore 5 is with her on that this is going to drag out for a week more I think.
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Pete Buttigieg is gonna run to replace Stabenow as Senator from Michigan, ya heard it here first!
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On January 06 2023 01:41 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2023 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 23:06 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 14:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 10:32 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 06:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Is there anything specific on the laptop that people are disputing being genuine? To answer that properly we would need access to know whats all on the laptop, but "genuine" do you mean "What the things that have been released about whats on "the laptop" means anything at all to Joe biden"? I meant 'are there specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated?' or is that a red herring? The relations to Joe Biden are clear to me. It's also clear to me that he was aware that his son was selling influence (that he arguably didn't have) and independent of whether it was effective, it was obviously corrupt. Then there's the drugs. Had he not had such a critical role in destroying millions of people's lives for the same (often lesser) crimes he knows his son was committing, it wouldn't be so damnable. That he's done so little to remedially address what he now recognizes as the systematically cruel and horrific destruction of millions of people's lives he's uniquely personally responsible for and positioned to lead on remedying is damning enough on its own. However, seeing video/photos of Hunter Biden's crimes committed with impunity certainly amplified the "rules for thee but not for me" vibes. That is a bit of a red herring due to it never being released and also due to clear and obvious circumstances of the claimed way it was acquired. Second and third paragraphs no one I've ever seen has had a problem with hunter Biden being locked up. It's been a constant "if he did crimes he should go to jail". He's not committed these crime with impunity he has been investigated by the government and charges were rumored to be dropped after the election and they were just waiting for them not to effect the election. That hasn't happened yet which should point to the lack of actual evidence to them. You need to ask yourself how they got these videos photos and how they are being shown to you. The republicans have had it from before the presidential election, what have they done with this information? A simple "No there are not specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated, yes it is a red herring" would have been sufficient. Hunter Biden has obviously and self-admittedly committed crimes. He's enjoyed legal impunity for those crimes despite his father having been uniquely personally responsible for destroying millions of lives for the same and lessor crimes. That's not even up for debate, it's a matter of well documented fact. I don't know what people genuinely believe his no-show job was other than bribery, granting the people bribing Hunter Biden didn't seem to be getting their money's worth. Personally I believe (besides being factually wrong) the oblivious Joe/white house narrative is more shameful, but Joe knew about the no-show job and knew better than most people that his son was a nonsensical hire outside of it being bribery. Does any of that even really involve the laptop? We knew Hunter was an addict, and we knew he took some high-paid consulting-type jobs that he surely only got because of his last name. I’m not gonna look up Biden’s history on drug enforcement policy right now (I’ll take your word for it that it’s terrible) but sans laptop you could still indict him for hypocrisy if he favored mandatory minimums for the masses, but rehab and recovery for his son. Frankly the laptop has always seemed a lot like the Podesta emails stuff. It’s this whole JJ Abrams game of “look at this super secret box, don’t you think there’s probably some dark fucked-up stuff inside?” but the actual contents are pretty disappointing. One difference is, I can still name a couple things from the 2016 email hacks that *really were* pretty bad, but I haven’t even heard *allegations* from the laptop that seemed all that meaningful. IIRC there’s alleged evidence that Biden knew about Hunter’s consulting jobs, they were explicitly given to him as bribes, and Biden even demanded 10% of his son’s income. But what were these jobs, $500,000/year? That’s great money for a guy fresh out of rehab but it’s not much for bribe money in Washington DC, especially if you’re only taking 10%. Didn’t the Saudis just give Jared Kushner like $1billion or something? I guess my point is, I don’t think the subterfuge and innuendo of the laptop story are buying you anything here. Right-wingers mostly yell about it more for the fact it was *censored* than they do for the actual contents, and everything you’re complaining about here was public information already, no?
None of it is dependent on the contents of the laptop, though there's arguably some "involvement".
I don't think the subterfuge or innuendo from Republicans is necessary to recognize that Joe Biden knew about the job when Hunter took it, knew he was unqualified, and knew why he was getting it anyway. Yet he and Hunter pretended Burisma needed Hunter Biden's professional help to keep them on the straight and narrow as if that isn't laughable on its face.
Beyond getting clarity on whether people disputed that the laptop contents that have been released were authentically from/of Hunter Biden (they don't afaict) my other point was that regardless of what is or isn't ultimately shown in Hunter's data, Joe Biden (Hunter too for whatever that matters) is plenty deplorable based on his own actions/policy (historical and contemporary).
No one should need an investigation into the laptop to see that both parties and every president is corrupted by the influence of money in US politics. Whether Joe Biden is provably in a court of law guilty of so egregiously stepping outside of normally accepted US political corruption that it would net a conviction in US criminal court (as well as the habitual/reflexive Trump whataboutism) misses the forest for the trees imo.
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On January 06 2023 03:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2023 01:41 ChristianS wrote:On January 06 2023 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 23:06 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 14:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 10:32 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 06:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Is there anything specific on the laptop that people are disputing being genuine? To answer that properly we would need access to know whats all on the laptop, but "genuine" do you mean "What the things that have been released about whats on "the laptop" means anything at all to Joe biden"? I meant 'are there specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated?' or is that a red herring? The relations to Joe Biden are clear to me. It's also clear to me that he was aware that his son was selling influence (that he arguably didn't have) and independent of whether it was effective, it was obviously corrupt. Then there's the drugs. Had he not had such a critical role in destroying millions of people's lives for the same (often lesser) crimes he knows his son was committing, it wouldn't be so damnable. That he's done so little to remedially address what he now recognizes as the systematically cruel and horrific destruction of millions of people's lives he's uniquely personally responsible for and positioned to lead on remedying is damning enough on its own. However, seeing video/photos of Hunter Biden's crimes committed with impunity certainly amplified the "rules for thee but not for me" vibes. That is a bit of a red herring due to it never being released and also due to clear and obvious circumstances of the claimed way it was acquired. Second and third paragraphs no one I've ever seen has had a problem with hunter Biden being locked up. It's been a constant "if he did crimes he should go to jail". He's not committed these crime with impunity he has been investigated by the government and charges were rumored to be dropped after the election and they were just waiting for them not to effect the election. That hasn't happened yet which should point to the lack of actual evidence to them. You need to ask yourself how they got these videos photos and how they are being shown to you. The republicans have had it from before the presidential election, what have they done with this information? A simple "No there are not specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated, yes it is a red herring" would have been sufficient. Hunter Biden has obviously and self-admittedly committed crimes. He's enjoyed legal impunity for those crimes despite his father having been uniquely personally responsible for destroying millions of lives for the same and lessor crimes. That's not even up for debate, it's a matter of well documented fact. I don't know what people genuinely believe his no-show job was other than bribery, granting the people bribing Hunter Biden didn't seem to be getting their money's worth. Personally I believe (besides being factually wrong) the oblivious Joe/white house narrative is more shameful, but Joe knew about the no-show job and knew better than most people that his son was a nonsensical hire outside of it being bribery. Does any of that even really involve the laptop? We knew Hunter was an addict, and we knew he took some high-paid consulting-type jobs that he surely only got because of his last name. I’m not gonna look up Biden’s history on drug enforcement policy right now (I’ll take your word for it that it’s terrible) but sans laptop you could still indict him for hypocrisy if he favored mandatory minimums for the masses, but rehab and recovery for his son. Frankly the laptop has always seemed a lot like the Podesta emails stuff. It’s this whole JJ Abrams game of “look at this super secret box, don’t you think there’s probably some dark fucked-up stuff inside?” but the actual contents are pretty disappointing. One difference is, I can still name a couple things from the 2016 email hacks that *really were* pretty bad, but I haven’t even heard *allegations* from the laptop that seemed all that meaningful. IIRC there’s alleged evidence that Biden knew about Hunter’s consulting jobs, they were explicitly given to him as bribes, and Biden even demanded 10% of his son’s income. But what were these jobs, $500,000/year? That’s great money for a guy fresh out of rehab but it’s not much for bribe money in Washington DC, especially if you’re only taking 10%. Didn’t the Saudis just give Jared Kushner like $1billion or something? I guess my point is, I don’t think the subterfuge and innuendo of the laptop story are buying you anything here. Right-wingers mostly yell about it more for the fact it was *censored* than they do for the actual contents, and everything you’re complaining about here was public information already, no? None of it is dependent on the contents of the laptop, though there's arguably some "involvement". I don't think the subterfuge or innuendo from Republicans is necessary to recognize that Joe Biden knew about the job when Hunter took it, knew he was unqualified, and knew why he was getting it anyway. Yet he and Hunter pretended Burisma needed Hunter Biden's professional help to keep them on the straight and narrow as if that isn't laughable on its face. Beyond getting clarity on whether people disputed that the laptop contents that have been released were authentically from/of Hunter Biden (they don't afaict) my other point was that regardless of what is or isn't ultimately shown in Hunter's data, Joe Biden (Hunter too for whatever that matters) is plenty deplorable based on his own actions/policy (historical and contemporary). No one should need an investigation into the laptop to see that both parties and every president is corrupted by the influence of money in US politics. Whether Joe Biden is provably in a court of law guilty of so egregiously stepping outside of normally accepted US political corruption that it would net a conviction in US criminal court (as well as the habitual/reflexive Trump whataboutism) misses the forest for the trees imo. Right but not your point is not "Hunter Biden laptop bad" but simply "US politics is shit and full of corruption". And you should know by now that this forum generally agrees with that statement.
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On January 06 2023 04:05 plasmidghost wrote:
Y'all ready for failure #8? I keep hearing about concessions being given by McCarthy to the far right but he's delusional to think that they'll ever vote for him
I don't think anyone has ever taken a massive L like this and continued to take L's on and on and on.
Bobert and someone else has voted for Kervin Hern atm. Gatz voted for trump last cycle. I think this decends into farce sooner than mccarthy becomes speaker
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On January 06 2023 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2023 03:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 06 2023 01:41 ChristianS wrote:On January 06 2023 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 23:06 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 14:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 10:32 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 06:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Is there anything specific on the laptop that people are disputing being genuine? To answer that properly we would need access to know whats all on the laptop, but "genuine" do you mean "What the things that have been released about whats on "the laptop" means anything at all to Joe biden"? I meant 'are there specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated?' or is that a red herring? The relations to Joe Biden are clear to me. It's also clear to me that he was aware that his son was selling influence (that he arguably didn't have) and independent of whether it was effective, it was obviously corrupt. Then there's the drugs. Had he not had such a critical role in destroying millions of people's lives for the same (often lesser) crimes he knows his son was committing, it wouldn't be so damnable. That he's done so little to remedially address what he now recognizes as the systematically cruel and horrific destruction of millions of people's lives he's uniquely personally responsible for and positioned to lead on remedying is damning enough on its own. However, seeing video/photos of Hunter Biden's crimes committed with impunity certainly amplified the "rules for thee but not for me" vibes. That is a bit of a red herring due to it never being released and also due to clear and obvious circumstances of the claimed way it was acquired. Second and third paragraphs no one I've ever seen has had a problem with hunter Biden being locked up. It's been a constant "if he did crimes he should go to jail". He's not committed these crime with impunity he has been investigated by the government and charges were rumored to be dropped after the election and they were just waiting for them not to effect the election. That hasn't happened yet which should point to the lack of actual evidence to them. You need to ask yourself how they got these videos photos and how they are being shown to you. The republicans have had it from before the presidential election, what have they done with this information? A simple "No there are not specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated, yes it is a red herring" would have been sufficient. Hunter Biden has obviously and self-admittedly committed crimes. He's enjoyed legal impunity for those crimes despite his father having been uniquely personally responsible for destroying millions of lives for the same and lessor crimes. That's not even up for debate, it's a matter of well documented fact. I don't know what people genuinely believe his no-show job was other than bribery, granting the people bribing Hunter Biden didn't seem to be getting their money's worth. Personally I believe (besides being factually wrong) the oblivious Joe/white house narrative is more shameful, but Joe knew about the no-show job and knew better than most people that his son was a nonsensical hire outside of it being bribery. Does any of that even really involve the laptop? We knew Hunter was an addict, and we knew he took some high-paid consulting-type jobs that he surely only got because of his last name. I’m not gonna look up Biden’s history on drug enforcement policy right now (I’ll take your word for it that it’s terrible) but sans laptop you could still indict him for hypocrisy if he favored mandatory minimums for the masses, but rehab and recovery for his son. Frankly the laptop has always seemed a lot like the Podesta emails stuff. It’s this whole JJ Abrams game of “look at this super secret box, don’t you think there’s probably some dark fucked-up stuff inside?” but the actual contents are pretty disappointing. One difference is, I can still name a couple things from the 2016 email hacks that *really were* pretty bad, but I haven’t even heard *allegations* from the laptop that seemed all that meaningful. IIRC there’s alleged evidence that Biden knew about Hunter’s consulting jobs, they were explicitly given to him as bribes, and Biden even demanded 10% of his son’s income. But what were these jobs, $500,000/year? That’s great money for a guy fresh out of rehab but it’s not much for bribe money in Washington DC, especially if you’re only taking 10%. Didn’t the Saudis just give Jared Kushner like $1billion or something? I guess my point is, I don’t think the subterfuge and innuendo of the laptop story are buying you anything here. Right-wingers mostly yell about it more for the fact it was *censored* than they do for the actual contents, and everything you’re complaining about here was public information already, no? None of it is dependent on the contents of the laptop, though there's arguably some "involvement". I don't think the subterfuge or innuendo from Republicans is necessary to recognize that Joe Biden knew about the job when Hunter took it, knew he was unqualified, and knew why he was getting it anyway. Yet he and Hunter pretended Burisma needed Hunter Biden's professional help to keep them on the straight and narrow as if that isn't laughable on its face. Beyond getting clarity on whether people disputed that the laptop contents that have been released were authentically from/of Hunter Biden (they don't afaict) my other point was that regardless of what is or isn't ultimately shown in Hunter's data, Joe Biden (Hunter too for whatever that matters) is plenty deplorable based on his own actions/policy (historical and contemporary). No one should need an investigation into the laptop to see that both parties and every president is corrupted by the influence of money in US politics. Whether Joe Biden is provably in a court of law guilty of so egregiously stepping outside of normally accepted US political corruption that it would net a conviction in US criminal court (as well as the habitual/reflexive Trump whataboutism) misses the forest for the trees imo. Right but not your point is not "Hunter Biden laptop bad" but simply "US politics is shit and full of corruption". And you should know by now that this forum generally agrees with that statement.
To the degree that's true that's why the discussion of stuff like chain of custody is a red herring. People know Biden and his party are corrupted by money, that lobbying/fundraising in the US is basically legalized bribery by another name, that nepotism is par for the course and so on. Regardless of what is or isn't shown by Hunter's files, no one is going to seriously argue that Joe Biden isn't a part of the normalized corruption that makes the worst version of the Burisma story look insignificant by comparison.
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On January 06 2023 04:13 plasmidghost wrote:
And vote #8 fails as five votes and counting from the GOP are not going for McCarthy
What's the point of having back-to-back votes without any significant time in between, for the members to negotiate with each other?
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On January 06 2023 04:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2023 04:13 plasmidghost wrote:
And vote #8 fails as five votes and counting from the GOP are not going for McCarthy What's the point of having back-to-back votes without any significant time in between, for the members to negotiate with each other?
I'm developing a head-canon where this is the US House version of trying to make Picard say there are 5 lights. On we go!
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On January 06 2023 01:41 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2023 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 23:06 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 14:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 10:32 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 06:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Is there anything specific on the laptop that people are disputing being genuine? To answer that properly we would need access to know whats all on the laptop, but "genuine" do you mean "What the things that have been released about whats on "the laptop" means anything at all to Joe biden"? I meant 'are there specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated?' or is that a red herring? The relations to Joe Biden are clear to me. It's also clear to me that he was aware that his son was selling influence (that he arguably didn't have) and independent of whether it was effective, it was obviously corrupt. Then there's the drugs. Had he not had such a critical role in destroying millions of people's lives for the same (often lesser) crimes he knows his son was committing, it wouldn't be so damnable. That he's done so little to remedially address what he now recognizes as the systematically cruel and horrific destruction of millions of people's lives he's uniquely personally responsible for and positioned to lead on remedying is damning enough on its own. However, seeing video/photos of Hunter Biden's crimes committed with impunity certainly amplified the "rules for thee but not for me" vibes. That is a bit of a red herring due to it never being released and also due to clear and obvious circumstances of the claimed way it was acquired. Second and third paragraphs no one I've ever seen has had a problem with hunter Biden being locked up. It's been a constant "if he did crimes he should go to jail". He's not committed these crime with impunity he has been investigated by the government and charges were rumored to be dropped after the election and they were just waiting for them not to effect the election. That hasn't happened yet which should point to the lack of actual evidence to them. You need to ask yourself how they got these videos photos and how they are being shown to you. The republicans have had it from before the presidential election, what have they done with this information? A simple "No there are not specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated, yes it is a red herring" would have been sufficient. Hunter Biden has obviously and self-admittedly committed crimes. He's enjoyed legal impunity for those crimes despite his father having been uniquely personally responsible for destroying millions of lives for the same and lessor crimes. That's not even up for debate, it's a matter of well documented fact. I don't know what people genuinely believe his no-show job was other than bribery, granting the people bribing Hunter Biden didn't seem to be getting their money's worth. Personally I believe (besides being factually wrong) the oblivious Joe/white house narrative is more shameful, but Joe knew about the no-show job and knew better than most people that his son was a nonsensical hire outside of it being bribery. Does any of that even really involve the laptop? We knew Hunter was an addict, and we knew he took some high-paid consulting-type jobs that he surely only got because of his last name. I’m not gonna look up Biden’s history on drug enforcement policy right now (I’ll take your word for it that it’s terrible) but sans laptop you could still indict him for hypocrisy if he favored mandatory minimums for the masses, but rehab and recovery for his son. Frankly the laptop has always seemed a lot like the Podesta emails stuff. It’s this whole JJ Abrams game of “look at this super secret box, don’t you think there’s probably some dark fucked-up stuff inside?” but the actual contents are pretty disappointing. One difference is, I can still name a couple things from the 2016 email hacks that *really were* pretty bad, but I haven’t even heard *allegations* from the laptop that seemed all that meaningful. IIRC there’s alleged evidence that Biden knew about Hunter’s consulting jobs, they were explicitly given to him as bribes, and Biden even demanded 10% of his son’s income. But what were these jobs, $500,000/year? That’s great money for a guy fresh out of rehab but it’s not much for bribe money in Washington DC, especially if you’re only taking 10%. Didn’t the Saudis just give Jared Kushner like $1billion or something? I guess my point is, I don’t think the subterfuge and innuendo of the laptop story are buying you anything here. Right-wingers mostly yell about it more for the fact it was *censored* than they do for the actual contents, and everything you’re complaining about here was public information already, no?
Reasonable people everywhere are rightfully concerned when massive social media companies censor a legitimate story in the run up to an election. That's the only thing I think is interesting about the story anyway. I couldn't care less about the crack smoking and peddling influence with bullshit consulting jobs or whatever other mole hills the Republicans are trying to make a mountain from. But I certainly don't think the arguments that some are offering, e.g. "What about the Trump Kid's profiteering?" or "If there was wrongdoing how come there were no charges" are particularly good. Nobody here would bring the "Then why hasn't he been charged?" energy to defend any wrongdoing from a team MAGA guy.
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On January 06 2023 05:36 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2023 01:41 ChristianS wrote:On January 06 2023 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 23:06 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 14:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 10:32 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 06:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Is there anything specific on the laptop that people are disputing being genuine? To answer that properly we would need access to know whats all on the laptop, but "genuine" do you mean "What the things that have been released about whats on "the laptop" means anything at all to Joe biden"? I meant 'are there specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated?' or is that a red herring? The relations to Joe Biden are clear to me. It's also clear to me that he was aware that his son was selling influence (that he arguably didn't have) and independent of whether it was effective, it was obviously corrupt. Then there's the drugs. Had he not had such a critical role in destroying millions of people's lives for the same (often lesser) crimes he knows his son was committing, it wouldn't be so damnable. That he's done so little to remedially address what he now recognizes as the systematically cruel and horrific destruction of millions of people's lives he's uniquely personally responsible for and positioned to lead on remedying is damning enough on its own. However, seeing video/photos of Hunter Biden's crimes committed with impunity certainly amplified the "rules for thee but not for me" vibes. That is a bit of a red herring due to it never being released and also due to clear and obvious circumstances of the claimed way it was acquired. Second and third paragraphs no one I've ever seen has had a problem with hunter Biden being locked up. It's been a constant "if he did crimes he should go to jail". He's not committed these crime with impunity he has been investigated by the government and charges were rumored to be dropped after the election and they were just waiting for them not to effect the election. That hasn't happened yet which should point to the lack of actual evidence to them. You need to ask yourself how they got these videos photos and how they are being shown to you. The republicans have had it from before the presidential election, what have they done with this information? A simple "No there are not specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated, yes it is a red herring" would have been sufficient. Hunter Biden has obviously and self-admittedly committed crimes. He's enjoyed legal impunity for those crimes despite his father having been uniquely personally responsible for destroying millions of lives for the same and lessor crimes. That's not even up for debate, it's a matter of well documented fact. I don't know what people genuinely believe his no-show job was other than bribery, granting the people bribing Hunter Biden didn't seem to be getting their money's worth. Personally I believe (besides being factually wrong) the oblivious Joe/white house narrative is more shameful, but Joe knew about the no-show job and knew better than most people that his son was a nonsensical hire outside of it being bribery. Does any of that even really involve the laptop? We knew Hunter was an addict, and we knew he took some high-paid consulting-type jobs that he surely only got because of his last name. I’m not gonna look up Biden’s history on drug enforcement policy right now (I’ll take your word for it that it’s terrible) but sans laptop you could still indict him for hypocrisy if he favored mandatory minimums for the masses, but rehab and recovery for his son. Frankly the laptop has always seemed a lot like the Podesta emails stuff. It’s this whole JJ Abrams game of “look at this super secret box, don’t you think there’s probably some dark fucked-up stuff inside?” but the actual contents are pretty disappointing. One difference is, I can still name a couple things from the 2016 email hacks that *really were* pretty bad, but I haven’t even heard *allegations* from the laptop that seemed all that meaningful. IIRC there’s alleged evidence that Biden knew about Hunter’s consulting jobs, they were explicitly given to him as bribes, and Biden even demanded 10% of his son’s income. But what were these jobs, $500,000/year? That’s great money for a guy fresh out of rehab but it’s not much for bribe money in Washington DC, especially if you’re only taking 10%. Didn’t the Saudis just give Jared Kushner like $1billion or something? I guess my point is, I don’t think the subterfuge and innuendo of the laptop story are buying you anything here. Right-wingers mostly yell about it more for the fact it was *censored* than they do for the actual contents, and everything you’re complaining about here was public information already, no? Reasonable people everywhere are rightfully concerned when massive social media companies censor a legitimate story in the run up to an election. That's the only thing I think is interesting about the story anyway. I couldn't care less about the crack smoking and peddling influence with bullshit consulting jobs or whatever other mole hills the Republicans are trying to make a mountain from. But I certainly don't think the arguments that some are offering, e.g. "What about the Trump Kid's profiteering?" or "If there was wrongdoing how come there were no charges" are particularly good. Nobody here would bring the "Then why hasn't he been charged?" energy to defend any wrongdoing from a team MAGA guy. Are you still trying to claim that a story everyone knew about got supposedly censored?
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On January 06 2023 04:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2023 03:58 Gorsameth wrote:On January 06 2023 03:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 06 2023 01:41 ChristianS wrote:On January 06 2023 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 23:06 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 14:44 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2023 10:32 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2023 06:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Is there anything specific on the laptop that people are disputing being genuine? To answer that properly we would need access to know whats all on the laptop, but "genuine" do you mean "What the things that have been released about whats on "the laptop" means anything at all to Joe biden"? I meant 'are there specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated?' or is that a red herring? The relations to Joe Biden are clear to me. It's also clear to me that he was aware that his son was selling influence (that he arguably didn't have) and independent of whether it was effective, it was obviously corrupt. Then there's the drugs. Had he not had such a critical role in destroying millions of people's lives for the same (often lesser) crimes he knows his son was committing, it wouldn't be so damnable. That he's done so little to remedially address what he now recognizes as the systematically cruel and horrific destruction of millions of people's lives he's uniquely personally responsible for and positioned to lead on remedying is damning enough on its own. However, seeing video/photos of Hunter Biden's crimes committed with impunity certainly amplified the "rules for thee but not for me" vibes. That is a bit of a red herring due to it never being released and also due to clear and obvious circumstances of the claimed way it was acquired. Second and third paragraphs no one I've ever seen has had a problem with hunter Biden being locked up. It's been a constant "if he did crimes he should go to jail". He's not committed these crime with impunity he has been investigated by the government and charges were rumored to be dropped after the election and they were just waiting for them not to effect the election. That hasn't happened yet which should point to the lack of actual evidence to them. You need to ask yourself how they got these videos photos and how they are being shown to you. The republicans have had it from before the presidential election, what have they done with this information? A simple "No there are not specific files (photos, videos, emails, etc) that people believe are fake/manipulated, yes it is a red herring" would have been sufficient. Hunter Biden has obviously and self-admittedly committed crimes. He's enjoyed legal impunity for those crimes despite his father having been uniquely personally responsible for destroying millions of lives for the same and lessor crimes. That's not even up for debate, it's a matter of well documented fact. I don't know what people genuinely believe his no-show job was other than bribery, granting the people bribing Hunter Biden didn't seem to be getting their money's worth. Personally I believe (besides being factually wrong) the oblivious Joe/white house narrative is more shameful, but Joe knew about the no-show job and knew better than most people that his son was a nonsensical hire outside of it being bribery. Does any of that even really involve the laptop? We knew Hunter was an addict, and we knew he took some high-paid consulting-type jobs that he surely only got because of his last name. I’m not gonna look up Biden’s history on drug enforcement policy right now (I’ll take your word for it that it’s terrible) but sans laptop you could still indict him for hypocrisy if he favored mandatory minimums for the masses, but rehab and recovery for his son. Frankly the laptop has always seemed a lot like the Podesta emails stuff. It’s this whole JJ Abrams game of “look at this super secret box, don’t you think there’s probably some dark fucked-up stuff inside?” but the actual contents are pretty disappointing. One difference is, I can still name a couple things from the 2016 email hacks that *really were* pretty bad, but I haven’t even heard *allegations* from the laptop that seemed all that meaningful. IIRC there’s alleged evidence that Biden knew about Hunter’s consulting jobs, they were explicitly given to him as bribes, and Biden even demanded 10% of his son’s income. But what were these jobs, $500,000/year? That’s great money for a guy fresh out of rehab but it’s not much for bribe money in Washington DC, especially if you’re only taking 10%. Didn’t the Saudis just give Jared Kushner like $1billion or something? I guess my point is, I don’t think the subterfuge and innuendo of the laptop story are buying you anything here. Right-wingers mostly yell about it more for the fact it was *censored* than they do for the actual contents, and everything you’re complaining about here was public information already, no? None of it is dependent on the contents of the laptop, though there's arguably some "involvement". I don't think the subterfuge or innuendo from Republicans is necessary to recognize that Joe Biden knew about the job when Hunter took it, knew he was unqualified, and knew why he was getting it anyway. Yet he and Hunter pretended Burisma needed Hunter Biden's professional help to keep them on the straight and narrow as if that isn't laughable on its face. Beyond getting clarity on whether people disputed that the laptop contents that have been released were authentically from/of Hunter Biden (they don't afaict) my other point was that regardless of what is or isn't ultimately shown in Hunter's data, Joe Biden (Hunter too for whatever that matters) is plenty deplorable based on his own actions/policy (historical and contemporary). No one should need an investigation into the laptop to see that both parties and every president is corrupted by the influence of money in US politics. Whether Joe Biden is provably in a court of law guilty of so egregiously stepping outside of normally accepted US political corruption that it would net a conviction in US criminal court (as well as the habitual/reflexive Trump whataboutism) misses the forest for the trees imo. Right but not your point is not "Hunter Biden laptop bad" but simply "US politics is shit and full of corruption". And you should know by now that this forum generally agrees with that statement. To the degree that's true that's why the discussion of stuff like chain of custody is a red herring. People know Biden and his party are corrupted by money, that lobbying/fundraising in the US is basically legalized bribery by another name, that nepotism is par for the course and so on. Regardless of what is or isn't shown by Hunter's files, no one is going to seriously argue that Joe Biden isn't a part of the normalized corruption that makes the worst version of the Burisma story look insignificant by comparison.
Yes we know Hunter Biden is a beneficiary of nepotism and traded on his name. The laptop is as worthless as the Twitter Files - they're stating beyond the obvious and what everyone expects of people engaging in corporations and the capitalistic system. Everyone in capitalistic systems deal in nepotism, especially if you're the son of one of the longest serving senators, so no one cares unless you can prove Hunter Biden actually sold state secrets on purpose with Joe Biden's express permission.
Conservatives themselves destroyed any interest in Hunter Biden's laptop. We didn't learn anything beyond Hunter Biden being a failson and Joe Biden being a decent enough dad, its not illegal to be a failson nor is it for a dad to say that he loves his son in a message.
Matt Taibbi put a nail in the coffin on the Hunter Biden laptop story and his journalistic reputation by trying to hint Twitter and the Biden campaign colluded to supress the story. Only that his own reporting showed Biden's campaign supressing Hunter Biden discussions on Twitter was actually legitmate because the vast majority of Hunter Biden tweets removed on Twitter at the time were obsessed with Hunter Biden's massive cock - which is not really public interest but is actually revenge porn and something that Matt Taibbi kindly released to the world to see. Which I shouldn't mention is a liability for Twitter themselves.
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On January 05 2023 17:55 Velr wrote:
Your actually bitching about Joe Biden not presecuting his own son? Hunter Biden seems to be a scumbag/troubled individual but seriously, what do you want from Biden? Go after his own son? Because his political opponents won't stop bitching about his son being a mess?
Yes. If Hunter Biden is prancing around violating laws that we would go to jail for, Hunter Biden needs to go to jail. I honestly don't have a clue what laws he has broken other than drug stuff, but if it is well documented, police or whoever need to follow that trail in whatever way they usually do.
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