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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3768

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1961 Posts
August 27 2022 17:55 GMT
#75341
On August 27 2022 18:01 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2022 16:09 Broetchenholer wrote:
Shouldn't we all agree, that at the start of an adult life, humans should have the ability to find an education and then a job without also deciding on how much debt they will have to take for it? If participating in life has a price tag on it, that's bad policy that needs to stop. Is that a point of agreement in the thread?


There are 2 actions you described here.
1. Find an education
As far as I can tell, education is paid for by the government until you graduate high school. College is not included by default.
Are you arguing that a college degree should also be paid for by the government? I understand that this is the case in some European countries like Germany but it is by no means something that has universal acceptance.
2. Find a job
That is a basic human right and I doubt there's anyone who would argue against it.


Why is it okay to have socialist high schools, but not socialist colleges? Isn't it in the interest of society to have people educated for the jobs it needs to function? So why not allow them to choose their educational path without an existential threat to their well being? What is the bonus to society that some people start their adult life with debt?
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
August 27 2022 21:12 GMT
#75342
--- Nuked ---
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
August 27 2022 23:01 GMT
#75343
On August 28 2022 06:12 plasmidghost wrote:
When I went to college, I chose a path that got me a bachelor's for barely anything after scholarships and a job, and I majored in cybersecurity since I knew there was a lucrative amount of money in it. Four years after graduation, I made $150k a year. And you know what I realized? My life has no real meaning to it. I had spent all of college and all of my professional life working in a career that I didn't care about because I couldn't afford the college to study what I wanted to, biomedical engineering. I wanted to help cure diseases, cancers, dementia, anything I possibly could, but to do so would have caused me to graduate with over $100k in debt and interest rates that would've crippled me for a decade, minimum. Now I'm just some corporate drone telling Fortune 500 companies how to not get hacked. Not only should all student debt be forgiven, college should be made free because everyone deserves to be able to participate in higher education and give their life meaning

Couldn't you save from your 150k pay for a couple of years and then go study another profession?
table for two on a tv tray
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
August 28 2022 00:31 GMT
#75344
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 28 2022 04:35 GMT
#75345
On August 28 2022 06:12 plasmidghost wrote:
When I went to college, I chose a path that got me a bachelor's for barely anything after scholarships and a job, and I majored in cybersecurity since I knew there was a lucrative amount of money in it. Four years after graduation, I made $150k a year. And you know what I realized? My life has no real meaning to it. I had spent all of college and all of my professional life working in a career that I didn't care about because I couldn't afford the college to study what I wanted to, biomedical engineering. I wanted to help cure diseases, cancers, dementia, anything I possibly could, but to do so would have caused me to graduate with over $100k in debt and interest rates that would've crippled me for a decade, minimum. Now I'm just some corporate drone telling Fortune 500 companies how to not get hacked. Not only should all student debt be forgiven, college should be made free because everyone deserves to be able to participate in higher education and give their life meaning


You could make notable contributions to biomedical engineering with a programming background.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-28 04:52:47
August 28 2022 04:38 GMT
#75346
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 28 2022 04:50 GMT
#75347
On August 28 2022 13:38 JimmiC wrote:
D%'xxxf


surely you must be trolling. This is a take I just can't accept. How can you feel right even saying that?
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2605 Posts
August 28 2022 05:39 GMT
#75348
On August 28 2022 02:55 Broetchenholer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2022 18:01 gobbledydook wrote:
On August 26 2022 16:09 Broetchenholer wrote:
Shouldn't we all agree, that at the start of an adult life, humans should have the ability to find an education and then a job without also deciding on how much debt they will have to take for it? If participating in life has a price tag on it, that's bad policy that needs to stop. Is that a point of agreement in the thread?


There are 2 actions you described here.
1. Find an education
As far as I can tell, education is paid for by the government until you graduate high school. College is not included by default.
Are you arguing that a college degree should also be paid for by the government? I understand that this is the case in some European countries like Germany but it is by no means something that has universal acceptance.
2. Find a job
That is a basic human right and I doubt there's anyone who would argue against it.


Why is it okay to have socialist high schools, but not socialist colleges? Isn't it in the interest of society to have people educated for the jobs it needs to function? So why not allow them to choose their educational path without an existential threat to their well being? What is the bonus to society that some people start their adult life with debt?


Of course, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. It is valid to support free higher education.
You were however claiming that this should be something that everyone should agree on, and the fact is this is a very divisive topic in the US.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1935 Posts
August 28 2022 06:38 GMT
#75349
On August 28 2022 14:39 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2022 02:55 Broetchenholer wrote:
On August 27 2022 18:01 gobbledydook wrote:
On August 26 2022 16:09 Broetchenholer wrote:
Shouldn't we all agree, that at the start of an adult life, humans should have the ability to find an education and then a job without also deciding on how much debt they will have to take for it? If participating in life has a price tag on it, that's bad policy that needs to stop. Is that a point of agreement in the thread?


There are 2 actions you described here.
1. Find an education
As far as I can tell, education is paid for by the government until you graduate high school. College is not included by default.
Are you arguing that a college degree should also be paid for by the government? I understand that this is the case in some European countries like Germany but it is by no means something that has universal acceptance.
2. Find a job
That is a basic human right and I doubt there's anyone who would argue against it.


Why is it okay to have socialist high schools, but not socialist colleges? Isn't it in the interest of society to have people educated for the jobs it needs to function? So why not allow them to choose their educational path without an existential threat to their well being? What is the bonus to society that some people start their adult life with debt?


Of course, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. It is valid to support free higher education.
You were however claiming that this should be something that everyone should agree on, and the fact is this is a very divisive topic in the US.


I just want to throw in that even if the education itself is free, studying isn't. Most student need a substantial loan just for living costs in big cities, and that is on top of low spending and working alongside the studies. If you rather skipped college and went straight to the highest paid job you could find, the college student might never catch up economically.

I feel the astronomical tuition fees reflect the market value of the degrees, which the universities have a monopoly of "printing". The common good for the society and education itself should be valued higher.
Buff the siegetank
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6274 Posts
August 28 2022 06:47 GMT
#75350
On August 28 2022 02:55 Broetchenholer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2022 18:01 gobbledydook wrote:
On August 26 2022 16:09 Broetchenholer wrote:
Shouldn't we all agree, that at the start of an adult life, humans should have the ability to find an education and then a job without also deciding on how much debt they will have to take for it? If participating in life has a price tag on it, that's bad policy that needs to stop. Is that a point of agreement in the thread?


There are 2 actions you described here.
1. Find an education
As far as I can tell, education is paid for by the government until you graduate high school. College is not included by default.
Are you arguing that a college degree should also be paid for by the government? I understand that this is the case in some European countries like Germany but it is by no means something that has universal acceptance.
2. Find a job
That is a basic human right and I doubt there's anyone who would argue against it.


Why is it okay to have socialist high schools, but not socialist colleges? Isn't it in the interest of society to have people educated for the jobs it needs to function? So why not allow them to choose their educational path without an existential threat to their well being? What is the bonus to society that some people start their adult life with debt?

The difference is that the benefits of a university education mostly accrue to the student in the form of higher wages. Primary and secondary schools have much larger positive externalities for the rest of society.
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1961 Posts
August 28 2022 06:59 GMT
#75351
That is true, but still, there are ways to make doctors wages more fair to nurses, without having the doctor end his education with 100k in debt. If you put monetary hurdles in place to reach higher education, you give children from higher income households an advantage over those woth lower incomes. That is the system in the US. Harvard exists, to keep the rich elite among the rich elite. The poor kids can be lucky to get a stipend or be really really good and overcome obstacles.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26785 Posts
August 28 2022 11:50 GMT
#75352
On August 28 2022 13:50 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2022 13:38 JimmiC wrote:
D%'xxxf


surely you must be trolling. This is a take I just can't accept. How can you feel right even saying that?

Still not the silliest take I’ve seen within these hallowed walls…
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Mikau313
Profile Joined January 2021
Netherlands230 Posts
August 28 2022 17:36 GMT
#75353
On August 28 2022 15:47 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2022 02:55 Broetchenholer wrote:
On August 27 2022 18:01 gobbledydook wrote:
On August 26 2022 16:09 Broetchenholer wrote:
Shouldn't we all agree, that at the start of an adult life, humans should have the ability to find an education and then a job without also deciding on how much debt they will have to take for it? If participating in life has a price tag on it, that's bad policy that needs to stop. Is that a point of agreement in the thread?


There are 2 actions you described here.
1. Find an education
As far as I can tell, education is paid for by the government until you graduate high school. College is not included by default.
Are you arguing that a college degree should also be paid for by the government? I understand that this is the case in some European countries like Germany but it is by no means something that has universal acceptance.
2. Find a job
That is a basic human right and I doubt there's anyone who would argue against it.


Why is it okay to have socialist high schools, but not socialist colleges? Isn't it in the interest of society to have people educated for the jobs it needs to function? So why not allow them to choose their educational path without an existential threat to their well being? What is the bonus to society that some people start their adult life with debt?

The difference is that the benefits of a university education mostly accrue to the student in the form of higher wages. Primary and secondary schools have much larger positive externalities for the rest of society.


Which benefit society in the form of higher taxes.

Government investing in university degrees of its population is a net financial gain to said government.

Even if a more highly educated population does nothing else to benefit society as a whole, it's still a net financial benefit to support people getting university degrees on a government level.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28797 Posts
August 28 2022 19:21 GMT
#75354
Physicians earning more than $200k per year aren't the most crippled by their also more than $200k debt. There are professions where the accrued student debt is more than justified by the future earning potential.

The bigger issues are a) should higher education be strictly about preparing you for a future profession (in which case it should be voluntary and might pay for itself), or b) should it be more of a holistic, fulfilling experience, giving additional preparation for 'life'? (Generally the thought is that the goal of pre-college/university education is i) preparing you for college/university and ii) fulfilling this criteria - but some will argue that it doesn't fully succeed).

If going with B - making college/university more about a holistic, fulfilling experience aimed at developing a more educated populace, you definitely want it to be less expensive. The problem with this is that honestly, quite a lot of people will already have grown incredibly sick of school during their high school years, and significant reform (in particular regarding assessment) would be required. The way it is, I can see merit to the argument that more people should be allowed to start their careers without requiring a college/uni education.

If going with A), with higher education being aimed at preparing you for your future career, and with future jobs giving highly differentiated pay depending on, among other things, your education level, students having to accrue debt in accordance with their future income might not look so bad. There are, however, two big issues with this: Firstly, it seems hard/impossible to accurately determine what the requirement of x type of worker will look like in the future. Consequently, some people will have a hard time getting a job after finishing their education. Secondly, if people are forced to choose career paths in their late teens, it's inevitable that a significant number will realize some version of they're no good at this / they're a poor fit for this job / they hate this job. Many of these might be very good at some other type of profession, but if they're stuck with some 6 digit debt with 6% interest rate, they might just have no choice in choosing to stick with it. From my perspective, this is very poor societal design - it's better if someone spends 35 years in a career they love and are good at than if they spend 40+ years doing something they hate.

As a social democrat aiming to amend the current system without tearing it all down before rebuilding, my recommendation goes along the lines of 'greatly reduce differences in pay between different professions, coupled with a significant reduction in costs for higher education' - but I also think the former is a necessity for the latter.
Moderator
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6120 Posts
August 28 2022 19:46 GMT
#75355
On August 27 2022 22:28 JimmiC wrote:
Bernie has a good point, where was all this out rage about people paying their debts when they found out the Donald declared bancuptcy 6 times screwing the contractors and sub contractors that did all the work for him while he continued to live as extravagent a lifestyle as possible?

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-says-republicans-complaining-194456792.html

Bernie should use his influence in the United States Senate to get a bill going that allows student loans to be discharged in ordinary bankruptcy if that's a good idea.

Re: the PPP loans are also getting a lot of mention as a case of whataboutism - that was a law passed by Congress, designed to keep employees paid at a time when the government forced businesses to shut down, and the conditions of forgiveness/turning the loan into a grant were understood from the beginning and built into the law.

I believe those were around $2 trillion in loans, which is a similar magnitude to the amount of student debt held by the US. And probably contain a similar amount of fraud/waste. PPP loans are STILL being investigated for fraud.

Basically it's really transparent the executive branch unilaterally deciding to spend $300-500b of the US taxpayer's money on something that he (I think) and his own party previously said the president couldn't do, near midterms, is blatant vote buying.

On August 27 2022 13:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Trump writing on these documents makes it really hard for me to think they were planted.

For all the libtard owning folks who obsess over this thread, what am I missing? How could Trump have written on documents that were planted? Or is he just incredibly screwed?

In point of fact, it's possible to have written on something that's no longer in your possession, that someone then puts somewhere to make you look bad. To put it another way, when you write on something, that doesn't affix it to its current position in the universe forever, and it's not only after being president that you can write on documents, you can write on them while you're still president.

That said, I doubt they were for example planted by the deep state to make him look bad if that's what you read from him or somewhere (although not beyond the realm of possibility, will come back to this).

More likely what has happened is he was being impeached his last month in office, people were quitting, some people were putting records in boxes, possibly him, the records left the White House, later the NARA asked for some back, they gave them back, then they said oh there must be more records if you have these, and requested more missing stuff. He says they're his, or anyway that they're declassified.

The alphabets then try to say no, we can't find the memo or certain things aren't in writing correctly or the documents aren't marked correctly - my attitude towards this is basically who cares, move on, he was the president. The idea that he's treasonously passing state secrets as revenge for losing or for financial gain are not serious. This is a common block people have with Trump, whether this or that what he does is normal or not or palatable or not, US presidents have the power to do many things (control whole executive branch, fire and hire who they want, executive orders, and so on) and for each of us they've all done something or other that we dislike. Clinton blew up a medicine factory in Africa. Bush started a war on a lie costing trillions in US taxpayer money to enrich the military industrial complex with an incalculable human cost. Yet they walk around free, erasing pictures of themselves with Epstein, and buying painting lessons and shitting on Trump in order to get on the left's good side finally, respectively. Come on.

Nevertheless no administration's DOJ has ever gone after a predecessor for any reason. Let me put this in a more global perspective, two of THIS country's last 3 presidents were CONVICTED AND IMPRISONED. It's only now, 45 presidents in, that the DOJ approves an FBI raid of Orange Hitler over some precious classified documents. I'm not sure what's happened but a certain generation, or maybe the "libtards" you referred to, needs to understand that it's not illegal for the US to merely elect people who aren't Democrats once in a while.

I don't oppose them taking the docs and doing a so-called "damage assessment" to assess any risk to security and human assets. But to be clear while he was president I think he could have written a list of every US spy around the world, along with an executive order declassifying it, and posted it to Twitter. I THINK, my understanding, is that presidents could do that. They don't, but they would have that power. They don't because it's wrong and because if any did that, the people publishing the list would probably refuse to follow the orders and/or resign, and the president face impeachment (because it would be a clear abuse with no reason even if no statutory offense existed) and/or his cabinet using the 25th amendment. What they had a Mar-a-Lago was I'm sure nothing like that, so whether it had been correctly labeled or processed I'd say again who cares.

This document raid is political pettiness, coming from an agency that
1) repeatedly lets people "on their radar" fly planes into buildings and shoot up schools
2) refused to recommend prosecuting a former Secretary of State, an appointed position even lacking the executive privilege, of a similar magnitude transgression
3) nonetheless meddled in the same election and caused a witch hunt by using a falsified dossier to prop up the investigation of her opponent
4) refused to investigate Biden's son at the time the laptop evidence came out, ostensibly not to meddle in a second election (a statement which by itself presupposes the association of the candidate Biden himself to potential liability)
5) interfered coordinated with big tech SNS to suppress a story as "Russian propaganda" that would hurt the candidate they obviously supported

and coming from an administration that
1) caused the deaths of US servicemen in Afghanistan while US allies were executed in their homes by the Taliban, so the same administration's FBI/DOJ assessing risk to human life and security, seem to be unqualified for the job
2) calls fascist a man who was voted out of office after having followed up on none of his promises to prosecute his opponents, while raiding one of his homes

...the combination of which meets with my disapproval. Part of it is that there is a political drive on the let to outdo one another finding some way to get Trump somehow, or failing that, anyone remotely connected with him. Like the New York AG who was elected by basically saying they would figure out how to charge him with whatever would stick.

And because one of the documents in the manifest was letters with KJU, I tend to believe the "sensitive nuclear weapons documents" are something absurd like "KJU, I will nuke you if you don't behave." This is the anal retentiveness of the US government. I'm what you'd have called a liberal 15 years ago so I find the surveillance state and government secrecy untrustworthy, interested in preserving and expanding its own power and covering its own abuses and justifying its own existence. These people think everything should be secret and hidden from you because that mean power, and they get away with it by saying otherwise people will die. Harm reduction. This is exactly the criticism used against Wikileaks exposure of secret information and it should be put in the dictionary under "concern trolling" - the US government's sudden change of heart and regard for human life, how admirable.

If you know how the nuclear system works, for instance, it's really weird, there is information that you can come up with by yourself that is classified, like certain aspects about nuclear weapons design. If you like nuclear physics and engineering you could theoretically doodle something that ends up being something classified and therefore it illegal to have. If memory serves.

I think I've written more than your question but I just continue to be confounded by the political realignment around the FBI/CIA.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26785 Posts
August 28 2022 20:10 GMT
#75356
On August 29 2022 04:46 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2022 22:28 JimmiC wrote:
Bernie has a good point, where was all this out rage about people paying their debts when they found out the Donald declared bancuptcy 6 times screwing the contractors and sub contractors that did all the work for him while he continued to live as extravagent a lifestyle as possible?

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-says-republicans-complaining-194456792.html

Bernie should use his influence in the United States Senate to get a bill going that allows student loans to be discharged in ordinary bankruptcy if that's a good idea.

Re: the PPP loans are also getting a lot of mention as a case of whataboutism - that was a law passed by Congress, designed to keep employees paid at a time when the government forced businesses to shut down, and the conditions of forgiveness/turning the loan into a grant were understood from the beginning and built into the law.

I believe those were around $2 trillion in loans, which is a similar magnitude to the amount of student debt held by the US. And probably contain a similar amount of fraud/waste. PPP loans are STILL being investigated for fraud.

Basically it's really transparent the executive branch unilaterally deciding to spend $300-500b of the US taxpayer's money on something that he (I think) and his own party previously said the president couldn't do, near midterms, is blatant vote buying.

Show nested quote +
On August 27 2022 13:28 Mohdoo wrote:
Trump writing on these documents makes it really hard for me to think they were planted.

For all the libtard owning folks who obsess over this thread, what am I missing? How could Trump have written on documents that were planted? Or is he just incredibly screwed?

In point of fact, it's possible to have written on something that's no longer in your possession, that someone then puts somewhere to make you look bad. To put it another way, when you write on something, that doesn't affix it to its current position in the universe forever, and it's not only after being president that you can write on documents, you can write on them while you're still president.

That said, I doubt they were for example planted by the deep state to make him look bad if that's what you read from him or somewhere (although not beyond the realm of possibility, will come back to this).

More likely what has happened is he was being impeached his last month in office, people were quitting, some people were putting records in boxes, possibly him, the records left the White House, later the NARA asked for some back, they gave them back, then they said oh there must be more records if you have these, and requested more missing stuff. He says they're his, or anyway that they're declassified.

The alphabets then try to say no, we can't find the memo or certain things aren't in writing correctly or the documents aren't marked correctly - my attitude towards this is basically who cares, move on, he was the president. The idea that he's treasonously passing state secrets as revenge for losing or for financial gain are not serious. This is a common block people have with Trump, whether this or that what he does is normal or not or palatable or not, US presidents have the power to do many things (control whole executive branch, fire and hire who they want, executive orders, and so on) and for each of us they've all done something or other that we dislike. Clinton blew up a medicine factory in Africa. Bush started a war on a lie costing trillions in US taxpayer money to enrich the military industrial complex with an incalculable human cost. Yet they walk around free, erasing pictures of themselves with Epstein, and buying painting lessons and shitting on Trump in order to get on the left's good side finally, respectively. Come on.

Nevertheless no administration's DOJ has ever gone after a predecessor for any reason. Let me put this in a more global perspective, two of THIS country's last 3 presidents were CONVICTED AND IMPRISONED. It's only now, 45 presidents in, that the DOJ approves an FBI raid of Orange Hitler over some precious classified documents. I'm not sure what's happened but a certain generation, or maybe the "libtards" you referred to, needs to understand that it's not illegal for the US to merely elect people who aren't Democrats once in a while.

I don't oppose them taking the docs and doing a so-called "damage assessment" to assess any risk to security and human assets. But to be clear while he was president I think he could have written a list of every US spy around the world, along with an executive order declassifying it, and posted it to Twitter. I THINK, my understanding, is that presidents could do that. They don't, but they would have that power. They don't because it's wrong and because if any did that, the people publishing the list would probably refuse to follow the orders and/or resign, and the president face impeachment (because it would be a clear abuse with no reason even if no statutory offense existed) and/or his cabinet using the 25th amendment. What they had a Mar-a-Lago was I'm sure nothing like that, so whether it had been correctly labeled or processed I'd say again who cares.

This document raid is political pettiness, coming from an agency that
1) repeatedly lets people "on their radar" fly planes into buildings and shoot up schools
2) refused to recommend prosecuting a former Secretary of State, an appointed position even lacking the executive privilege, of a similar magnitude transgression
3) nonetheless meddled in the same election and caused a witch hunt by using a falsified dossier to prop up the investigation of her opponent
4) refused to investigate Biden's son at the time the laptop evidence came out, ostensibly not to meddle in a second election (a statement which by itself presupposes the association of the candidate Biden himself to potential liability)
5) interfered coordinated with big tech SNS to suppress a story as "Russian propaganda" that would hurt the candidate they obviously supported

and coming from an administration that
1) caused the deaths of US servicemen in Afghanistan while US allies were executed in their homes by the Taliban, so the same administration's FBI/DOJ assessing risk to human life and security, seem to be unqualified for the job
2) calls fascist a man who was voted out of office after having followed up on none of his promises to prosecute his opponents, while raiding one of his homes

...the combination of which meets with my disapproval. Part of it is that there is a political drive on the let to outdo one another finding some way to get Trump somehow, or failing that, anyone remotely connected with him. Like the New York AG who was elected by basically saying they would figure out how to charge him with whatever would stick.

And because one of the documents in the manifest was letters with KJU, I tend to believe the "sensitive nuclear weapons documents" are something absurd like "KJU, I will nuke you if you don't behave." This is the anal retentiveness of the US government. I'm what you'd have called a liberal 15 years ago so I find the surveillance state and government secrecy untrustworthy, interested in preserving and expanding its own power and covering its own abuses and justifying its own existence. These people think everything should be secret and hidden from you because that mean power, and they get away with it by saying otherwise people will die. Harm reduction. This is exactly the criticism used against Wikileaks exposure of secret information and it should be put in the dictionary under "concern trolling" - the US government's sudden change of heart and regard for human life, how admirable.

If you know how the nuclear system works, for instance, it's really weird, there is information that you can come up with by yourself that is classified, like certain aspects about nuclear weapons design. If you like nuclear physics and engineering you could theoretically doodle something that ends up being something classified and therefore it illegal to have. If memory serves.

I think I've written more than your question but I just continue to be confounded by the political realignment around the FBI/CIA.

‘The alphabets’ ? :S

If Trump was some kind of principled martyr who cared about transparency, well I’d agree with quite a lot of that. But I mean, he absolutely is not such a creature.

More remains to come out in the wash, we shall see.

If Trump was merely negligent, which makes a change /s, then yes perhaps his offence is equivalent to Clinton’s emails. Something tells me this is not the case, hence the rather unprecedented actions, but that remains to be seen.

There’s no particular re-alignment here. Federal apparatuses are no great friends of the left, and this doesn’t change that one iota. If they nail one of the most self-aggrandising, ethics-free persons that exists in any office/former office of import, well hey a broken clock is right twice a day.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14122 Posts
August 29 2022 01:30 GMT
#75357
The level of fraud from PPP loans and from things like the bailout of the airlines only for a lot of these operations to just fire people and pocket the cash will go way ahead of any fallout from the student loans. The idea that so many people who wrote the law decided to take advantage of the law without a shred of a conflict of interests is hilariously hypocritical.

If the program for these PPP loans went to the employees that were fired instead of the companies that did the firing away it would be somewhere near what student loan forgiveness was. Instead, the PPP loans did a massive transfer of wealth from taxpayers to the wealthy. This comes not that long after an equal transfer of wealth to the rich in the form of trumps tax cuts.

The idea that its somehow blatant vote buying to now spend maybe a quarter of the money that the previous guy spent that it wasn't vote buying before is dishonest at best.


But yeah the president doesn't have jedi powers to declassify state secrets at will using his brain whenever he feels like it. There is an extensive process to declassify materials so that people are informed about what is and what isn't declassified now. Even if he could declassify documents the secrets inside those documents, including nuclear secrets, are not declassified.

I don't know how you got past
He says they're his, or anyway that they're declassified.
being a massive red flag.

The idea that the FBI-CIA-NSA is somehow pro left now is hilarious, we don't need GH in here to say that anyone whos read any history can say that the FBI and the CIA have done incredibly right wing activities including a lot of assassinations of left wing activists in just this country.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 30 2022 00:14 GMT
#75358
Jimmi you'll like this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-cracks-down-colleges-student-debt-spiral-jacking-costs-trump-2022-8

I'd like to quickly reiterate the way Biden could do this very easily: All colleges which increase tuition higher than the government's official inflation % lose federal funding, which includes stuff like DOE/DOD/etc stuff to private colleges. Some colleges get insane amounts of money for big science projects. If the school loses eligibility due to increasing price beyond inflation, they would essentially collapse overnight. It would be an easy way to handle at the executive level, zero laws necessary. Biden could make this decision essentially overnight.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 30 2022 00:44 GMT
#75359
--- Nuked ---
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14122 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-30 01:00:56
August 30 2022 01:00 GMT
#75360
The doe can say that they won't loan money to students going to a school who's tuition has gone up too much. That would crash their enrollment.

But yeah rnd grants as well. B1G is first and foremost a research alliance to cooperate for research dollars from the government.

Remember it's not about the money it's about sending a message, everybody learns.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
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