EPTRight-wing populism seems to be a damn sight more successful though, in light of how Trump managed to get around all the barriers set by enemies within his own party. Bernie was twice defeated by the organized opposition within his own. This seems to play out in the same way on the down-ballot too, if you look at the successes of groups such as the Tea Party before and after the Trump era.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3563
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Right-wing populism seems to be a damn sight more successful though, in light of how Trump managed to get around all the barriers set by enemies within his own party. Bernie was twice defeated by the organized opposition within his own. This seems to play out in the same way on the down-ballot too, if you look at the successes of groups such as the Tea Party before and after the Trump era. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
EnDeR_
Spain2640 Posts
On March 27 2022 01:04 JimmiC wrote: Populism is awful. It is generally no policy or a policy that is really dumb if you actually think about it for more than 2 minutes Simple answers to complex problems. If only it were that easy... | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15646 Posts
On March 26 2022 16:09 gobbledydook wrote: I don't think it's fair to say rural culture is "archaic". It is different, certainly. But they may reasonably consider the cosmopolitan culture as "radical" given their worldview. You're not going to be changing their minds if you go in with the pretext that they are backwards and need to educated for their own good. Imagine aliens with vastly more developed culture and technology came and determined to educate the misguided humans on how to live. All across rural America, perspectives that were common in big cities 50 years ago are prevalent. They are by definition living in an outdated culture. Psychology/sociology has already fully characterized this process. People/communities that are geographically isolated tend to experience cultural stagnation and will identify less with people who live far away. These are just flat out scientific truths. When you are geographically isolated, it is less common for people to come and go, so many of the same perspectives remain. No new ideas coming in, no old ideas going out. When people live in big cities, they end up identifying with and/or appreciating a larger number of groups because they become a part of their community in their head. It isn't a coincidence that large cities end up liberal while old abandoned coal towns fly confederate flags. Its not like rural people are genetically shitty, it is just the way human brains work. They are not being given opportunities to become better people in the same way people in larger cities are. They are left behind. | ||
|
Sermokala
United States13873 Posts
| ||
|
Simberto
Germany11475 Posts
Maybe if they weren't trying to force their bigoted religious crazy onto everyone else, people would have less of a distaste for them? Maybe if they didn't have more representation than they actually deserve by population, and still want more, people would have less of a distaste for them. 10 Million people in bumfuck nowhere may get 10 senators. 10 Million people in the center of New York get part of one. And i know that not everyone there thinks like that. But sadly, the majority in those rural societies seems to think like that, or at least their spokespeople do. And that majority is what people dislike. | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15646 Posts
On March 27 2022 01:58 Sermokala wrote: Modoo has always been a guy who posts dehumanizing and delegitimizing stuff about people who weren't born in a bit city or who can't move to one. I don't even want to ask him what he thinks about Minnesota or the midwest in general but he's been pretty unique and constant about his distaste for the other in the nation he lives in. If the cultural deficiency of rural America did not have profound consequences, there would be less incentive to cite the well documented mechanisms for rural America's cultural deficiency. | ||
|
lestye
United States4158 Posts
https://twitter.com/ampol_moment/status/1507443373187158026?s=21&t=JxSb70UW0h5bwJ9oW-vUVg | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland25010 Posts
| ||
|
Zambrah
United States7288 Posts
On March 27 2022 00:03 Artisreal wrote: Educating people in a position of comfort is not going to bring them to move their position. Benevolent dictatorship? Just have to make them less comfortable.  Capitalism is on track to do that on its own over time though | ||
|
Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On March 27 2022 01:24 EnDeR_ wrote: Simple answers to complex problems. If only it were that easy... Medicine is complex. Funding medicine is simple. America makes funding medicine complex and inefficient so the rich can skim money. A lot of issues are like this. We could ban bribes for politicians, but then capital would lose some of its stranglehold, so we have a labyrinthian system of restrictions to pretend politicians aren't bribed when they actually are. We could stop overthrowing democracies, but then the people of those democracies might reclaim their national resources. Equal rights are vastly simpler than different laws for different races, or sexes, or sexualities... It's easy to excuse evil answers if it's a "complex problem," and any problem can be made complex by rejecting the simple solution. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 27 2022 03:52 Zambrah wrote: Just have to make them less comfortable. Capitalism is on track to do that on its own over time though Honestly a non-benevolent dictatorship would be fine too, so long as the right point of view prevails. | ||
|
Zambrah
United States7288 Posts
Major advances seem to so often come off the back of a pissed off populace breaking shit, I’d want to make sure that door is always slightly ajar so the leadership can see what’s on the other side should they fuck up. | ||
|
Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On March 27 2022 04:44 LegalLord wrote: Honestly a non-benevolent dictatorship would be fine too, so long as the right point of view prevails. Finding the right point of view and getting it to power has been proven to be immeasurably difficult though all times though  | ||
|
Sermokala
United States13873 Posts
On March 27 2022 02:19 Mohdoo wrote: If the cultural deficiency of rural America did not have profound consequences, there would be less incentive to cite the well documented mechanisms for rural America's cultural deficiency. Cultural deficiency doesn't sound like a justification term for terrible things at all. It is really scary how far down the well of hate you feel this comfortable in. | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15646 Posts
On March 27 2022 06:46 Sermokala wrote: Cultural deficiency doesn't sound like a justification term for terrible things at all. It is really scary how far down the well of hate you feel this comfortable in. I’m not saying “so throw them in camps”, I’m saying “stop being idiots” | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland25010 Posts
In seriousness though, it’s very much a double frustration for me with such things. Because I tend to agree with the vast majority of gripes those outside of salubrious cities have about well, the effects of living outside of salubrious cities. The solutions they tend to gravitate to, or the tangentially attached social issues are absolutely ass-backward moves. You think youse have it bad over there, Christ Northern Ireland may somehow manage to be worse in this domain. If I could click my fingers as overlord, one of the first things I would do is via various mechanisms redistribute industry around the place. Improve internet infrastructure, expand yet further remote workout arrangements. Whack tax monies at it Regional deprivation is absolutely a thing, people struggling to afford to live in big cities is also a thing, spread things out and get the best of both worlds, two birds one stone. But for whatever reason the preferred solution to these kind of issues is engaging in counter-productive trade wars with the likes of China | ||
|
Sermokala
United States13873 Posts
The solutions are there it just seems that there is a large preference to just grow the current hatred and ignore the legitimate ways to increase the material conditions of people. I meet coasties like modoo all the time that sound more like my trumpy uncle than anyone who wants a better world. | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15646 Posts
On March 27 2022 07:44 Sermokala wrote: Its about planning infrastructure and trade to make the rural areas profitable instead of blindly packing in more and more people into bigger and bigger cities. Like the losers of the economy are going to be angry and are not going to follow leaders that ignore them and have no answers for them. Manufacturing can be brought back to America easily by putting the infrastructure in place for it. increasing green energy production is naturally going to be things that can be sold to the rural areas that will benefit from its employment. Making mass public transport reliable and efficient capable of reaching an hour outside of a major city will make these areas worth staying in even if you commute. Turning back to unions and the traditions of midwest socialism instead of continuously spitting on the people who grow up in dieing communities. The solutions are there it just seems that there is a large preference to just grow the current hatred and ignore the legitimate ways to increase the material conditions of people. I meet coasties like modoo all the time that sound more like my trumpy uncle than anyone who wants a better world. Here's the gist of how the situation was taught in my sociology class: 1) Lots of manufacturing in various rural areas, injecting lots of cash into areas that don't really have much else going for them. Lots of successful folks working in factories 2) Globalization fucks over these folks 3) All these folks get poorer and poorer as people and businesses leave. When kids go to college, they don't go back to their home town because their home down is on the down while other places are on the up 4) (3) continues to happen. Some people are really stubborn and refuse to leave. The people who stay tend to be very bitter and resentful of the fact that their once glorious community is now a dump. The people who want a brighter future leave, the people who feel like their community is a part of their family heritage stay 5) Still basically no reason for these communities to exist because they were completely abandoned by a corrupt globalist government sucking their corporate donor's dicks 6) Other natural processes of rural communities continues to get worse. No cultural migration, same people rotting away because they have an emotional attachment to a zipcode. Those rotting folks have kids who also rot and they inherit the bitterness of their parents 7) Misinformation is used to turn these people against the wrong people. These rural folks end up blaming immigrants and minorities rather than greedy capitalists 8) These folks vote for stupid shit because they have had their lives ruined and then they were lied to Once president Mohdoo is elected in 2028: 1) Extreme financial incentives to build factories in places that are otherwise pointless 2) Extreme tax punishments to American companies that manufacture abroad 3) Tons of infrastructure investment so that these left behind communities are extremely integrated and easy to integrate into larger communities. The reality is that nothing will fix this situation other than cash injection. Money left these communities. Money needs to go back. We need the government to make it foolish NOT to put a bunch of factories in left behind communities. And just to be clear, I see these left behind communities as victims of capitalism. They got screwed over. They deserve our sympathy and compassion. But they are also causing some really major issues through the people they vote for. My only issue with these folks is how they voted. If they voted differently, I'd love them. To summarize my post above: If it was cheaper to build an iphone in Kentucky rather than China, the problem would be solved overnight. The government has failed these communities by allowing China to out-compete American manufacturing. If it weren't for corrupt politicians, these communities would be thriving. | ||
| ||
