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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On March 02 2022 05:32 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 05:06 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 02:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 01 2022 14:45 Doc.Rivers wrote:On March 01 2022 13:54 Mohdoo wrote:On March 01 2022 13:52 Doc.Rivers wrote:On March 01 2022 13:19 micronesia wrote:
What would be some reasons not to vote to remove members from committees for making racists and antisemitic statements (other than endorsing racism ant antisemitism)? Aat the time I'm not sure that it was quite as clear cut that racism and antisemitism were at issue. IIRC it was more like, Greene said that Israel has space lasers. I'm not sure that that's any more anti Semitic than saying that Israel's lobbyists have control over US politics through their money, power and influence. But aside from that, there are issues at play like internal party politics and not capitulation to the overzealous dem media outrage machine. You didn't actually say anything here. What do you think separated the 11 republicans who voted against Greene from the other 199? This feels like the weirdest, slimiest deflection. I will of course refrain from responding in kind to the statements that I'm posting "nonsense," I'm being "awful," I'm being "weird," and I'm being "slimy." All I'm saying is that the republican party is not a racist party. Would you accept the statement "The Republican party is the party containing a disproportionately high number of racist leaders, racist constituents, and racist beliefs?" The Republican party is not the party that promoted slavery for 80 years. It is the party that ended slavery. The Republican party is not the party that promoted Jim Crow laws and segregation for 90 years. That party was the Democratic party. The Republican party is not the party that currently discriminates against Americans of Asian ancestry because of their race in college admissions. That party is the Democratic party. The Democratic party currently has more racists than the Republican party. If you believe in discriminating against Asians in college admissions, then you are a racist and I am calling out your racism. It seems you’ve got a bit of history, but your history stopped sometime before the 60s. In the 60s, the Southern Strategy happened. Essentially, the Democrats abandoned their Dixiecrat portion (the racist part of the Democrat party) and in turn, the Republicans absorbed the Dixiecrats. As the Republicans embraced the racists, there was a massive shift of black voters out of the Republican Party and into the Democrats. I don’t like racial criteria in college admissions either, but I recognize a portion of the Democrats is trying to use it to right a past wrong. As in sports, I think “make-up calls” are wrong and the best path forward is a colorblind approach moving forward. However, I have no delusion that the Democrats are the more racist party. Since the 60s, the Republicans have and continue to embrace racists. They continue to pass policies that negatively target black people. Sometimes their reasoning is quite openly racist. Other times they’re quiet about their motives for passing laws that negatively target black people. I don’t find the Democrats perfect, but I typically vote for them because they are clearly the lesser evil on things like race. They’re sometimes misguided on racial policies, but even that comes from a place of wanting to right past wrongs. When it comes to Republicans, they’re pretty repugnant. The one redeeming quality is a stated desire for limited government; however, they always seem to increase government control when they’re in charge and even openly support someone who tried to become a dictator. Hell no. Check your history after the 1950s.
Your post is excellent! Thank you. You have sources and everything. I think "repugnant" is an unfortunate word choice, but I still think your post was great overall. Even the criticism is valid. For instance Republicans talk like they will limit government and then grow it like crazy. Good point!
I agree with you about discriminating against Asian Americans. Make up calls are wrong as you say, but in the case of Asian Americans they were never the beneficiaries, so it is not even a make up call.
Regarding the "Southern Strategy":
The Goldwater election was in 1964. At that time Democrats banned black people from voting in Mississippi and other states in the deep south. Three civil rights workers were lynched by Democrats for trying to register African Americans to vote that year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Chaney,_Goodman,_and_Schwerner
While Goldwater's campaign was not ideal, lets not pretend he was on the wrong side. Those engaging in lynching were on the wrong side.
The 1972 "Southern Strategy" was just a whole country strategy. Nixon won something like 49 states.
Jimmy Carter then won the south in 1976. Clinton won the South in 92 and mostly in 96.
It was not until the 2000s that the South became reliably Republican.
If you believe the parties "switched" look at the geography within the states.
Before the "switch" the Texas panhandle and western North Carolina were heavily Republican while the coasts of both states were heavily Democrat. Today it is the same. The panhandle did not switch. Western North Carolina did not switch.
What happened is that Democrats banned African Americans from voting and were racist. Then when they discovered that African Americans supported the policies that would become the "Great Society" the Democrats allowed African Americans to vote and changed their platform to discriminate in favor of African Americans. I am glad that Democrats flipped. The new Democratic party is an improvement over the old. Well done. You all are better than your grandparents. Now please get rid of affirmative action.
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Northern Ireland26322 Posts
One crucial error you appear to be making is assuming that people criticising the current sorry state of the Republican Party are dyed in the wool Democrats.
At least per the thread they’re either not even Americans like myself, or reluctant Dem voters who spend as much time criticising that party.
‘What about the Dems’ doesn’t really sting if one is not a Dem.
Affirmative action in certain instances being detrimental to Asian Americans is, to me a valid area for discussion but why does it seemingly exclusively come up to deflect from any and all other credible accusations of racism in other quarters?
Other causes the wider-Asian American community bring to the fore don’t seem nearly as enthusiastically adopted, it makes one rather cynical that concern for this issue is at best myopic, at worst a disingenuous way to crowbar ‘the left are the real racists’ narratives into the discourse
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On March 02 2022 06:19 WombaT wrote:
One crucial error you appear to be making is assuming that people criticising the current sorry state of the Republican Party are dyed in the wool Democrats.
At least per the thread they’re either not even Americans like myself, or reluctant Dem voters who spend as much time criticising that party.
‘What about the Dems’ doesn’t really sting if one is not a Dem.
Affirmative action in certain instances being detrimental to Asian Americans is, to me a valid area for discussion but why does it seemingly exclusively come up to deflect from any and all other credible accusations of racism in other quarters?
Other causes the wider-Asian American community bring to the fore don’t seem nearly as enthusiastically adopted, it makes one rather cynical that concern for this issue is at best myopic, at worst a disingenuous way to crowbar ‘the left are the real racists’ narratives into the discourse
I think you make a lot of good points here. As I have not heard a single person defend affirmative action in this thread it sounds like you all are not the racists. I am heartened to discover this. To be fair, there is some truth, that I was using affirmative action as a crow-bar. It is a horribly racist policy and if members of my party are going to be called racists in this thread, then I am going to remind Democrats of their racist policies, both past and current. That said, the issue is near and dear to my heart.
I want to point out something about affirmative action. It is bad politics. Asian Americans are for the most part very loyal Democratic voters and education is perhaps their most important issue. It makes no political sense to punish your most loyal constituents on the issue most dear to their heart. Why does the Democratic party do this? The answer is it is supported by the university administrators. They want voters to vote for more funds and they know that Asian American votes are in the bag. Asian Americans will vote to fund education even if the system is rigged against them. What the university administrations worry about is how African Americans will vote. Their well founded concern is that if too few African Americans are admitted to universities then African Americans will no longer vote to increase funding and this will hurt the bottom line of their institution and in the end their salary.
For this reason the administration of universities badly want affirmative action and the Democratic party is listening to the elites in the administration instead of the rank and file who are against racial discrimination.
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Felons/convicts are far more likely to vote for and support Democratic candidates. So in fairness we should call the Republican party the party of racists and the Democrat party the party of criminals. That way we get to generalize both parties by their most unsavory members. I trust this is a satisfactory compromise for all involved in the discussion.
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United States43646 Posts
On March 02 2022 06:40 BlackJack wrote:
Felons/convicts are far more likely to vote for and support Democratic candidates. So in fairness we should call the Republican party the party of racists and the Democrat party the party of criminals. That way we get to generalize both parties by their most unsavory members. I trust this is a satisfactory compromise for all involved in the discussion.
That’s quite a logical leap. Firstly it combines voters and the party. Republicans politicians are racists enacting racist policies. You’re making a parallel between Republican politicians and Democratic voters. It doesn’t really work. The parallel would have to be politicians and unfortunately Republican politicians and criminal activity aren’t as far removed as you’d want for that parallel. Secondly there’s no support provided for the assertion that felons vote for Democrats. And that’s before we even look at felon disenfranchisement, a lot of them don’t vote at all. Thirdly the link between felons and a party of criminality isn’t really made. Criminal as a term is undefined here. I speed from time to time, am I a criminal? Are we talking people who commit crimes, people who are currently incarcerated, people who have previously served time but are free citizens? Fourthly the support of a group doesn’t imply that it is reciprocal. A party can receive support from a group without supporting the ideals of that group.
All in all I’d rate your post I for Idiotic. I’m sure you tried your best though.
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On March 02 2022 06:40 BlackJack wrote:
Felons/convicts are far more likely to vote for and support Democratic candidates. So in fairness we should call the Republican party the party of racists and the Democrat party the party of criminals. That way we get to generalize both parties by their most unsavory members. I trust this is a satisfactory compromise for all involved in the discussion.
"The Republican party criminalizes their political opponents" isn't the dunk you were hoping it'd be.
For an explicit confession, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ehrlichman#Drug_war_quote
“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
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On March 02 2022 07:10 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 06:37 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 06:19 WombaT wrote:
One crucial error you appear to be making is assuming that people criticising the current sorry state of the Republican Party are dyed in the wool Democrats.
At least per the thread they’re either not even Americans like myself, or reluctant Dem voters who spend as much time criticising that party.
‘What about the Dems’ doesn’t really sting if one is not a Dem.
Affirmative action in certain instances being detrimental to Asian Americans is, to me a valid area for discussion but why does it seemingly exclusively come up to deflect from any and all other credible accusations of racism in other quarters?
Other causes the wider-Asian American community bring to the fore don’t seem nearly as enthusiastically adopted, it makes one rather cynical that concern for this issue is at best myopic, at worst a disingenuous way to crowbar ‘the left are the real racists’ narratives into the discourse I think you make a lot of good points here. As I have not heard a single person defend affirmative action in this thread it sounds like you all are not the racists. I am heartened to discover this. To be fair, there is some truth, that I was using affirmative action as a crow-bar. It is a horribly racist policy and if members of my party are going to be called racists in this thread, then I am going to remind Democrats of their racist policies, both past and current. That said, the issue is near and dear to my heart. I want to point out something about affirmative action. It is bad politics. Asian Americans are for the most part very loyal Democratic voters and education is perhaps their most important issue. It makes no political sense to punish your most loyal constituents on the issue most dear to their heart. Why does the Democratic party do this? The answer is it is supported by the university administrators. They want voters to vote for more funds and they know that Asian American votes are in the bag. Asian Americans will vote to fund education even if the system is rigged against them. What the university administrations worry about is how African Americans will vote. Their well founded concern is that if too few African Americans are admitted to universities then African Americans will no longer vote to increase funding and this will hurt the bottom line of their institution and in the end their salary. For this reason the administration of universities badly want affirmative action and the Democratic party is listening to the elites in the administration instead of the rank and file who are against racial discrimination. How bad exactly do you think affirmative action has hurt Asian Americans? Are you aware the case is being brought by a white guy and is not supported by the Asian communities? If you hate racism there is at least 10,000 other things to be more mad at. You are just getting your information from the wrong sources. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-americans-support-affirmative-action-here-s-why-misconceptions-n1247806Show nested quote +According to the national 2020 Asian American Voter Survey, which examined almost 1,570 voters, targeting the six largest national origin groups, found that 70 percent of Asian Americans supported affirmative action, while 16 percent opposed it. Chinese Americans, who were the least likely of the ethnicities to back the program, still favored it at a majority of 56 percent.
Data on Harvard’s own admissions shows that race-conscious admissions have benefitted all communities, including Asian Americans, producing a more diverse student body, Yang said.
Harvard’s admissions statistics show that the share of its admitted class that is Asian American has grown by 27 percent since 2010, according to the university's response to the lawsuit. When looking at its class of 2023, Asian Americans make up more than 25 percent, while Latinx students comprise just over 12 percent and Black students constitute more than 14 percent. Show nested quote +Vincent Pan, co-executive director of nonprofit Chinese for Affirmative Action, agreed, noting that while the support and leadership from the Asian American community on the issue of affirmative action is too often ignored, there does continue to be a segment of the population that is complicit in the right-wing agenda to upend race-conscious programs.
“Their positioning undermines work against anti-Asian racism that requires multiracial solidarity, making more visible the needs of less visible AAPI groups and dismantling anti-Black stereotypes," Pan said, referring to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. https://nyunews.com/opinion/2021/04/07/asian-americans-affirmative-action/Show nested quote +These white affirmative action opponents don’t have the interests of Asians in mind. Rather, Asian students are being weaponized against marginalized college hopefuls. Blum intentionally invokes the model minority myth by portraying all Asians as highly successful individuals unfairly hurt by affirmative action. This advances the false narrative that Asian American students are a monolith, and completely ignores Asians who do not fit the model minority stereotype. Only about half of Asian Americans hold a bachelor’s degree or higher.
Show nested quote +It’s no surprise, then, that more than 135 Asian American organizations banded together to support affirmative action after Blum filed his case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Blum_(litigant)
I don't know anything about the case you are referring to.
The fact that some Asian Americans support discrimination against their race does not make the policy okay or not racist.
Racial discrimination is racist and wrong and the fact that some Democrats and some Asian Americans support it does not make it any better.
The motives of Republicans are pure on this issue and many other issues. We supported an end to slavery and 300k of us died freeing slaves not because it was easy but because it was right.
We fought hard to win voting rights for African Americans knowing full well that most of them would vote against our party because it was right. There is no point winning elections if you don't use your power for good and securing voting rights for African Americans was good we are proud of our party for doing that.
We oppose abortion knowing full well that most of the women getting abortions are Democrats and if we succeed there will be more children raised by Democrats and most of those children will likely become Democrats themselves and vote against our party. We know we will lose elections over this, but killing children is wrong and we would rather do good. We will smile as the children whose lives we have saved vote against us because it is their vote and their life and their choice.
You should support a policy because it is the right policy. If your defense of a policy is that someone else supports it, then you are engaging in group think.
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Northern Ireland26322 Posts
On March 02 2022 06:40 BlackJack wrote:
Felons/convicts are far more likely to vote for and support Democratic candidates. So in fairness we should call the Republican party the party of racists and the Democrat party the party of criminals. That way we get to generalize both parties by their most unsavory members. I trust this is a satisfactory compromise for all involved in the discussion.
We could alternatively not do this and move behind the painful, painful process of endless, endless equivocation.
If it weren’t more relaxing getting blood out of a stone than getting a bloody minor concession like ‘going around saying Jews have space lazers is a bad thing I don’t support’, people would be more generous.
Guilt by association is frequently unfairly utilised to bring judgement, but the clear counter is that of disassociation where it’s applicable.
Instead we get a having one’s cake and eating it scenario whereupon we’ll endlessly Devil’s advocate for the GOP, and go full martyr when people tie somebody to the actions of that wider collective.
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On March 02 2022 06:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 06:40 BlackJack wrote:
Felons/convicts are far more likely to vote for and support Democratic candidates. So in fairness we should call the Republican party the party of racists and the Democrat party the party of criminals. That way we get to generalize both parties by their most unsavory members. I trust this is a satisfactory compromise for all involved in the discussion. That’s quite a logical leap. Firstly it combines voters and the party. Republicans politicians are racists enacting racist policies. You’re making a parallel between Republican politicians and Democratic voters. It doesn’t really work. The parallel would have to be politicians and unfortunately Republican politicians and criminal activity aren’t as far removed as you’d want for that parallel. Secondly there’s no support provided for the assertion that felons vote for Democrats. And that’s before we even look at felon disenfranchisement, a lot of them don’t vote at all. Thirdly the link between felons and a party of criminality isn’t really made. Criminal as a term is undefined here. I speed from time to time, am I a criminal? Are we talking people who commit crimes, people who are currently incarcerated, people who have previously served time but are free citizens? Fourthly the support of a group doesn’t imply that it is reciprocal. A party can receive support from a group without supporting the ideals of that group. All in all I’d rate your post I for Idiotic. I’m sure you tried your best though.
It's a shame you couldn't formulate that same question for the topic at hand. Is "racist" a well defined term in this conversation? Is white people being superior to black people part of the Republican platform? Are any Republican politicians on the record stating that white people are a superior race? Exactly what definition of racist are you using to label the Republican party racist? If it's about "enacting racist policies" then as meadfast points out, the policies that discriminate against Asian-Americans are not coming from the Republican party so that will need to be addressed.
Is Joe Biden a racist for saying "Poor kids are just as bright as white kids." Or calling Obama the first mainstream African-American that is bright and articulate and clean? Or how about saying "You can't go to 7/11 or Dunkin Donuts without having a slight Indian accent." Or saying his kids would grow up in a "racial jungle" if schools were desegregated. Or how about Biden lamenting how difficult it is to get "Latinx" vaccinated against COVID because they are worried they will get deported?
Seems like some pretty racist stuff there.
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Northern Ireland26322 Posts
On March 02 2022 07:30 meadbert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 07:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 02 2022 06:37 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 06:19 WombaT wrote:
One crucial error you appear to be making is assuming that people criticising the current sorry state of the Republican Party are dyed in the wool Democrats.
At least per the thread they’re either not even Americans like myself, or reluctant Dem voters who spend as much time criticising that party.
‘What about the Dems’ doesn’t really sting if one is not a Dem.
Affirmative action in certain instances being detrimental to Asian Americans is, to me a valid area for discussion but why does it seemingly exclusively come up to deflect from any and all other credible accusations of racism in other quarters?
Other causes the wider-Asian American community bring to the fore don’t seem nearly as enthusiastically adopted, it makes one rather cynical that concern for this issue is at best myopic, at worst a disingenuous way to crowbar ‘the left are the real racists’ narratives into the discourse I think you make a lot of good points here. As I have not heard a single person defend affirmative action in this thread it sounds like you all are not the racists. I am heartened to discover this. To be fair, there is some truth, that I was using affirmative action as a crow-bar. It is a horribly racist policy and if members of my party are going to be called racists in this thread, then I am going to remind Democrats of their racist policies, both past and current. That said, the issue is near and dear to my heart. I want to point out something about affirmative action. It is bad politics. Asian Americans are for the most part very loyal Democratic voters and education is perhaps their most important issue. It makes no political sense to punish your most loyal constituents on the issue most dear to their heart. Why does the Democratic party do this? The answer is it is supported by the university administrators. They want voters to vote for more funds and they know that Asian American votes are in the bag. Asian Americans will vote to fund education even if the system is rigged against them. What the university administrations worry about is how African Americans will vote. Their well founded concern is that if too few African Americans are admitted to universities then African Americans will no longer vote to increase funding and this will hurt the bottom line of their institution and in the end their salary. For this reason the administration of universities badly want affirmative action and the Democratic party is listening to the elites in the administration instead of the rank and file who are against racial discrimination. How bad exactly do you think affirmative action has hurt Asian Americans? Are you aware the case is being brought by a white guy and is not supported by the Asian communities? If you hate racism there is at least 10,000 other things to be more mad at. You are just getting your information from the wrong sources. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-americans-support-affirmative-action-here-s-why-misconceptions-n1247806According to the national 2020 Asian American Voter Survey, which examined almost 1,570 voters, targeting the six largest national origin groups, found that 70 percent of Asian Americans supported affirmative action, while 16 percent opposed it. Chinese Americans, who were the least likely of the ethnicities to back the program, still favored it at a majority of 56 percent.
Data on Harvard’s own admissions shows that race-conscious admissions have benefitted all communities, including Asian Americans, producing a more diverse student body, Yang said.
Harvard’s admissions statistics show that the share of its admitted class that is Asian American has grown by 27 percent since 2010, according to the university's response to the lawsuit. When looking at its class of 2023, Asian Americans make up more than 25 percent, while Latinx students comprise just over 12 percent and Black students constitute more than 14 percent. Vincent Pan, co-executive director of nonprofit Chinese for Affirmative Action, agreed, noting that while the support and leadership from the Asian American community on the issue of affirmative action is too often ignored, there does continue to be a segment of the population that is complicit in the right-wing agenda to upend race-conscious programs.
“Their positioning undermines work against anti-Asian racism that requires multiracial solidarity, making more visible the needs of less visible AAPI groups and dismantling anti-Black stereotypes," Pan said, referring to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. https://nyunews.com/opinion/2021/04/07/asian-americans-affirmative-action/These white affirmative action opponents don’t have the interests of Asians in mind. Rather, Asian students are being weaponized against marginalized college hopefuls. Blum intentionally invokes the model minority myth by portraying all Asians as highly successful individuals unfairly hurt by affirmative action. This advances the false narrative that Asian American students are a monolith, and completely ignores Asians who do not fit the model minority stereotype. Only about half of Asian Americans hold a bachelor’s degree or higher.
It’s no surprise, then, that more than 135 Asian American organizations banded together to support affirmative action after Blum filed his case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Blum_(litigant) I don't know anything about the case you are referring to. The fact that some Asian Americans support discrimination against their race does not make the policy okay or not racist. Racial discrimination is racist and wrong and the fact that some Democrats and some Asian Americans support it does not make it any better. The motives of Republicans are pure on this issue and many other issues. We supported an end to slavery and 300k of us died freeing slaves not because it was easy but because it was right. We fought hard to win voting rights for African Americans knowing full well that most of them would vote against our party because it was right. There is no point winning elections if you don't use your power for good and securing voting rights for African Americans was good we are proud of our party for doing that. We oppose abortion knowing full well that most of the women getting abortions are Democrats and if we succeed there will be more children raised by Democrats and most of those children will likely become Democrats themselves and vote against our party. We know we will lose elections over this, but killing children is wrong and we would rather do good. We will smile as the children whose lives we have saved vote against us because it is their vote and their life and their choice. You should support a policy because it is the right policy. If your defense of a policy is that someone else supports it, then you are engaging in group think.
3000+ pages and that may be the most dubious claim I have yet read.
I shall concede the abortion topic. While I hugely disagree, I think this is an intractable issue where the pro-life side is engaging earnestly as per their values.
I don’t think the motive is to subjugate women or whatever charges people make.
That may be the end result, and the rationale (often religious in nature) used to justify it is, to me incorrect, but I think it’s an earnestly held belief via that framework.
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United States43646 Posts
On March 02 2022 07:41 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 06:48 KwarK wrote:On March 02 2022 06:40 BlackJack wrote:
Felons/convicts are far more likely to vote for and support Democratic candidates. So in fairness we should call the Republican party the party of racists and the Democrat party the party of criminals. That way we get to generalize both parties by their most unsavory members. I trust this is a satisfactory compromise for all involved in the discussion. That’s quite a logical leap. Firstly it combines voters and the party. Republicans politicians are racists enacting racist policies. You’re making a parallel between Republican politicians and Democratic voters. It doesn’t really work. The parallel would have to be politicians and unfortunately Republican politicians and criminal activity aren’t as far removed as you’d want for that parallel. Secondly there’s no support provided for the assertion that felons vote for Democrats. And that’s before we even look at felon disenfranchisement, a lot of them don’t vote at all. Thirdly the link between felons and a party of criminality isn’t really made. Criminal as a term is undefined here. I speed from time to time, am I a criminal? Are we talking people who commit crimes, people who are currently incarcerated, people who have previously served time but are free citizens? Fourthly the support of a group doesn’t imply that it is reciprocal. A party can receive support from a group without supporting the ideals of that group. All in all I’d rate your post I for Idiotic. I’m sure you tried your best though. It's a shame you couldn't formulate that same question for the topic at hand. Is "racist" a well defined term in this conversation? Is white people being superior to black people part of the Republican platform? Are any Republican politicians on the record stating that white people are a superior race? Exactly what definition of racist are you using to label the Republican party racist? If it's about "enacting racist policies" then as meadfast points out, the policies that discriminate against Asian-Americans are not coming from the Republican party so that will need to be addressed. Is Joe Biden a racist for saying "Poor kids are just as bright as white kids." Or calling Obama the first mainstream African-American that is bright and articulate and clean? Or how about saying "You can't go to 7/11 or Dunkin Donuts without having a slight Indian accent." Or saying his kids would grow up in a "racial jungle" if schools were desegregated. Or how about Biden lamenting how difficult it is to get "Latinx" vaccinated against COVID because they are worried they will get deported? Seems like some pretty racist stuff there.
At what point do you think I made the argument that the Democratic Party aren’t racist? Is it possible for you to construct a thought in your head that isn’t prefaced by “whatabout”?
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United States43646 Posts
On March 02 2022 07:45 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 07:30 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 07:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 02 2022 06:37 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 06:19 WombaT wrote:
One crucial error you appear to be making is assuming that people criticising the current sorry state of the Republican Party are dyed in the wool Democrats.
At least per the thread they’re either not even Americans like myself, or reluctant Dem voters who spend as much time criticising that party.
‘What about the Dems’ doesn’t really sting if one is not a Dem.
Affirmative action in certain instances being detrimental to Asian Americans is, to me a valid area for discussion but why does it seemingly exclusively come up to deflect from any and all other credible accusations of racism in other quarters?
Other causes the wider-Asian American community bring to the fore don’t seem nearly as enthusiastically adopted, it makes one rather cynical that concern for this issue is at best myopic, at worst a disingenuous way to crowbar ‘the left are the real racists’ narratives into the discourse I think you make a lot of good points here. As I have not heard a single person defend affirmative action in this thread it sounds like you all are not the racists. I am heartened to discover this. To be fair, there is some truth, that I was using affirmative action as a crow-bar. It is a horribly racist policy and if members of my party are going to be called racists in this thread, then I am going to remind Democrats of their racist policies, both past and current. That said, the issue is near and dear to my heart. I want to point out something about affirmative action. It is bad politics. Asian Americans are for the most part very loyal Democratic voters and education is perhaps their most important issue. It makes no political sense to punish your most loyal constituents on the issue most dear to their heart. Why does the Democratic party do this? The answer is it is supported by the university administrators. They want voters to vote for more funds and they know that Asian American votes are in the bag. Asian Americans will vote to fund education even if the system is rigged against them. What the university administrations worry about is how African Americans will vote. Their well founded concern is that if too few African Americans are admitted to universities then African Americans will no longer vote to increase funding and this will hurt the bottom line of their institution and in the end their salary. For this reason the administration of universities badly want affirmative action and the Democratic party is listening to the elites in the administration instead of the rank and file who are against racial discrimination. How bad exactly do you think affirmative action has hurt Asian Americans? Are you aware the case is being brought by a white guy and is not supported by the Asian communities? If you hate racism there is at least 10,000 other things to be more mad at. You are just getting your information from the wrong sources. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-americans-support-affirmative-action-here-s-why-misconceptions-n1247806According to the national 2020 Asian American Voter Survey, which examined almost 1,570 voters, targeting the six largest national origin groups, found that 70 percent of Asian Americans supported affirmative action, while 16 percent opposed it. Chinese Americans, who were the least likely of the ethnicities to back the program, still favored it at a majority of 56 percent.
Data on Harvard’s own admissions shows that race-conscious admissions have benefitted all communities, including Asian Americans, producing a more diverse student body, Yang said.
Harvard’s admissions statistics show that the share of its admitted class that is Asian American has grown by 27 percent since 2010, according to the university's response to the lawsuit. When looking at its class of 2023, Asian Americans make up more than 25 percent, while Latinx students comprise just over 12 percent and Black students constitute more than 14 percent. Vincent Pan, co-executive director of nonprofit Chinese for Affirmative Action, agreed, noting that while the support and leadership from the Asian American community on the issue of affirmative action is too often ignored, there does continue to be a segment of the population that is complicit in the right-wing agenda to upend race-conscious programs.
“Their positioning undermines work against anti-Asian racism that requires multiracial solidarity, making more visible the needs of less visible AAPI groups and dismantling anti-Black stereotypes," Pan said, referring to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. https://nyunews.com/opinion/2021/04/07/asian-americans-affirmative-action/These white affirmative action opponents don’t have the interests of Asians in mind. Rather, Asian students are being weaponized against marginalized college hopefuls. Blum intentionally invokes the model minority myth by portraying all Asians as highly successful individuals unfairly hurt by affirmative action. This advances the false narrative that Asian American students are a monolith, and completely ignores Asians who do not fit the model minority stereotype. Only about half of Asian Americans hold a bachelor’s degree or higher.
It’s no surprise, then, that more than 135 Asian American organizations banded together to support affirmative action after Blum filed his case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Blum_(litigant) I don't know anything about the case you are referring to. The fact that some Asian Americans support discrimination against their race does not make the policy okay or not racist. Racial discrimination is racist and wrong and the fact that some Democrats and some Asian Americans support it does not make it any better. The motives of Republicans are pure on this issue and many other issues. We supported an end to slavery and 300k of us died freeing slaves not because it was easy but because it was right. We fought hard to win voting rights for African Americans knowing full well that most of them would vote against our party because it was right. There is no point winning elections if you don't use your power for good and securing voting rights for African Americans was good we are proud of our party for doing that. We oppose abortion knowing full well that most of the women getting abortions are Democrats and if we succeed there will be more children raised by Democrats and most of those children will likely become Democrats themselves and vote against our party. We know we will lose elections over this, but killing children is wrong and we would rather do good. We will smile as the children whose lives we have saved vote against us because it is their vote and their life and their choice. You should support a policy because it is the right policy. If your defense of a policy is that someone else supports it, then you are engaging in group think. 3000+ pages and that may be the most dubious claim I have yet read. I shall concede the abortion topic. While I hugely disagree, I think this is an intractable issue where the pro-life side is engaging earnestly as per their values. I don’t think the motive is to subjugate women or whatever charges people make. That may be the end result, and the rationale (often religious in nature) used to justify it is, to me incorrect, but I think it’s an earnestly held belief via that framework.
I liked that he fought and died to free slaves. That was good at him. Can’t call him racist if he fought and died to free slaves.
Of course if what he means is that the club he’s in did that 150 years ago but all those club members are dead and there are brand new club members now and also if you look at the writings of those club members 150 years ago they were still super fucking racist then the argument falls apart. But still, good job. Also I enjoyed the implication that the union army and the Republican Party are the same entity. All union dead count as Republican Party members.
Nobody wants to be exactly as anti racist as either side on the civil war. You should want to be way less racist than the least racist side. And yet somehow Confederate flags keep showing up in Republican areas. If the best argument you had was that 150 years ago the Republicans opposed the Confederacy then you don’t have a good argument.
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Northern Ireland26322 Posts
On March 02 2022 07:41 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 06:48 KwarK wrote:On March 02 2022 06:40 BlackJack wrote:
Felons/convicts are far more likely to vote for and support Democratic candidates. So in fairness we should call the Republican party the party of racists and the Democrat party the party of criminals. That way we get to generalize both parties by their most unsavory members. I trust this is a satisfactory compromise for all involved in the discussion. That’s quite a logical leap. Firstly it combines voters and the party. Republicans politicians are racists enacting racist policies. You’re making a parallel between Republican politicians and Democratic voters. It doesn’t really work. The parallel would have to be politicians and unfortunately Republican politicians and criminal activity aren’t as far removed as you’d want for that parallel. Secondly there’s no support provided for the assertion that felons vote for Democrats. And that’s before we even look at felon disenfranchisement, a lot of them don’t vote at all. Thirdly the link between felons and a party of criminality isn’t really made. Criminal as a term is undefined here. I speed from time to time, am I a criminal? Are we talking people who commit crimes, people who are currently incarcerated, people who have previously served time but are free citizens? Fourthly the support of a group doesn’t imply that it is reciprocal. A party can receive support from a group without supporting the ideals of that group. All in all I’d rate your post I for Idiotic. I’m sure you tried your best though. It's a shame you couldn't formulate that same question for the topic at hand. Is "racist" a well defined term in this conversation? Is white people being superior to black people part of the Republican platform? Are any Republican politicians on the record stating that white people are a superior race? Exactly what definition of racist are you using to label the Republican party racist? If it's about "enacting racist policies" then as meadfast points out, the policies that discriminate against Asian-Americans are not coming from the Republican party so that will need to be addressed. Is Joe Biden a racist for saying "Poor kids are just as bright as white kids." Or calling Obama the first mainstream African-American that is bright and articulate and clean? Or how about saying "You can't go to 7/11 or Dunkin Donuts without having a slight Indian accent." Or saying his kids would grow up in a "racial jungle" if schools were desegregated. Or how about Biden lamenting how difficult it is to get "Latinx" vaccinated against COVID because they are worried they will get deported? Seems like some pretty racist stuff there.
Biden had some extremely harmful, bad positions as it pertained to race.
And frequent gaffes that exposed a more benign, but still existent form of racism pretty much to this day, far as I can tell.
So yes.
Hugely ingrained societal association and racial bias, in some form is hard, if not impossible to avoid, in one form or another.
Biden’s historical positions, especially on school segregation should have seen him given a harder ride, as he consciously chose to take those positions in a deliberate fashion. They weren’t merely some gaffe stemming from stereotypes.
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Northern Ireland26322 Posts
On March 02 2022 07:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 07:45 WombaT wrote:On March 02 2022 07:30 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 07:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 02 2022 06:37 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 06:19 WombaT wrote:
One crucial error you appear to be making is assuming that people criticising the current sorry state of the Republican Party are dyed in the wool Democrats.
At least per the thread they’re either not even Americans like myself, or reluctant Dem voters who spend as much time criticising that party.
‘What about the Dems’ doesn’t really sting if one is not a Dem.
Affirmative action in certain instances being detrimental to Asian Americans is, to me a valid area for discussion but why does it seemingly exclusively come up to deflect from any and all other credible accusations of racism in other quarters?
Other causes the wider-Asian American community bring to the fore don’t seem nearly as enthusiastically adopted, it makes one rather cynical that concern for this issue is at best myopic, at worst a disingenuous way to crowbar ‘the left are the real racists’ narratives into the discourse I think you make a lot of good points here. As I have not heard a single person defend affirmative action in this thread it sounds like you all are not the racists. I am heartened to discover this. To be fair, there is some truth, that I was using affirmative action as a crow-bar. It is a horribly racist policy and if members of my party are going to be called racists in this thread, then I am going to remind Democrats of their racist policies, both past and current. That said, the issue is near and dear to my heart. I want to point out something about affirmative action. It is bad politics. Asian Americans are for the most part very loyal Democratic voters and education is perhaps their most important issue. It makes no political sense to punish your most loyal constituents on the issue most dear to their heart. Why does the Democratic party do this? The answer is it is supported by the university administrators. They want voters to vote for more funds and they know that Asian American votes are in the bag. Asian Americans will vote to fund education even if the system is rigged against them. What the university administrations worry about is how African Americans will vote. Their well founded concern is that if too few African Americans are admitted to universities then African Americans will no longer vote to increase funding and this will hurt the bottom line of their institution and in the end their salary. For this reason the administration of universities badly want affirmative action and the Democratic party is listening to the elites in the administration instead of the rank and file who are against racial discrimination. How bad exactly do you think affirmative action has hurt Asian Americans? Are you aware the case is being brought by a white guy and is not supported by the Asian communities? If you hate racism there is at least 10,000 other things to be more mad at. You are just getting your information from the wrong sources. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-americans-support-affirmative-action-here-s-why-misconceptions-n1247806According to the national 2020 Asian American Voter Survey, which examined almost 1,570 voters, targeting the six largest national origin groups, found that 70 percent of Asian Americans supported affirmative action, while 16 percent opposed it. Chinese Americans, who were the least likely of the ethnicities to back the program, still favored it at a majority of 56 percent.
Data on Harvard’s own admissions shows that race-conscious admissions have benefitted all communities, including Asian Americans, producing a more diverse student body, Yang said.
Harvard’s admissions statistics show that the share of its admitted class that is Asian American has grown by 27 percent since 2010, according to the university's response to the lawsuit. When looking at its class of 2023, Asian Americans make up more than 25 percent, while Latinx students comprise just over 12 percent and Black students constitute more than 14 percent. Vincent Pan, co-executive director of nonprofit Chinese for Affirmative Action, agreed, noting that while the support and leadership from the Asian American community on the issue of affirmative action is too often ignored, there does continue to be a segment of the population that is complicit in the right-wing agenda to upend race-conscious programs.
“Their positioning undermines work against anti-Asian racism that requires multiracial solidarity, making more visible the needs of less visible AAPI groups and dismantling anti-Black stereotypes," Pan said, referring to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. https://nyunews.com/opinion/2021/04/07/asian-americans-affirmative-action/These white affirmative action opponents don’t have the interests of Asians in mind. Rather, Asian students are being weaponized against marginalized college hopefuls. Blum intentionally invokes the model minority myth by portraying all Asians as highly successful individuals unfairly hurt by affirmative action. This advances the false narrative that Asian American students are a monolith, and completely ignores Asians who do not fit the model minority stereotype. Only about half of Asian Americans hold a bachelor’s degree or higher.
It’s no surprise, then, that more than 135 Asian American organizations banded together to support affirmative action after Blum filed his case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Blum_(litigant) I don't know anything about the case you are referring to. The fact that some Asian Americans support discrimination against their race does not make the policy okay or not racist. Racial discrimination is racist and wrong and the fact that some Democrats and some Asian Americans support it does not make it any better. The motives of Republicans are pure on this issue and many other issues. We supported an end to slavery and 300k of us died freeing slaves not because it was easy but because it was right. We fought hard to win voting rights for African Americans knowing full well that most of them would vote against our party because it was right. There is no point winning elections if you don't use your power for good and securing voting rights for African Americans was good we are proud of our party for doing that. We oppose abortion knowing full well that most of the women getting abortions are Democrats and if we succeed there will be more children raised by Democrats and most of those children will likely become Democrats themselves and vote against our party. We know we will lose elections over this, but killing children is wrong and we would rather do good. We will smile as the children whose lives we have saved vote against us because it is their vote and their life and their choice. You should support a policy because it is the right policy. If your defense of a policy is that someone else supports it, then you are engaging in group think. 3000+ pages and that may be the most dubious claim I have yet read. I shall concede the abortion topic. While I hugely disagree, I think this is an intractable issue where the pro-life side is engaging earnestly as per their values. I don’t think the motive is to subjugate women or whatever charges people make. That may be the end result, and the rationale (often religious in nature) used to justify it is, to me incorrect, but I think it’s an earnestly held belief via that framework. I liked that he fought and died to free slaves. That was good at him. Can’t call him racist if he fought and died to free slaves. Of course if what he means is that the club he’s in did that 150 years ago but all those club members are dead and there are brand new club members now and also if you look at the writings of those club members 150 years ago they were still super fucking racist then the argument falls apart. But still, good job. Nobody wants to be exactly as anti racist as either side on the civil war. You should want to be way less racist than the least racist side. And yet somehow Confederate flags keep showing up in Republican areas.
It’s interesting and I’m sure not illustrative of anything that the Confederacy will never die, and pesky open white nationalist types keep showing up at your rallies for, some reason.
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On March 02 2022 07:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 07:45 WombaT wrote:On March 02 2022 07:30 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 07:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 02 2022 06:37 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 06:19 WombaT wrote:
One crucial error you appear to be making is assuming that people criticising the current sorry state of the Republican Party are dyed in the wool Democrats.
At least per the thread they’re either not even Americans like myself, or reluctant Dem voters who spend as much time criticising that party.
‘What about the Dems’ doesn’t really sting if one is not a Dem.
Affirmative action in certain instances being detrimental to Asian Americans is, to me a valid area for discussion but why does it seemingly exclusively come up to deflect from any and all other credible accusations of racism in other quarters?
Other causes the wider-Asian American community bring to the fore don’t seem nearly as enthusiastically adopted, it makes one rather cynical that concern for this issue is at best myopic, at worst a disingenuous way to crowbar ‘the left are the real racists’ narratives into the discourse I think you make a lot of good points here. As I have not heard a single person defend affirmative action in this thread it sounds like you all are not the racists. I am heartened to discover this. To be fair, there is some truth, that I was using affirmative action as a crow-bar. It is a horribly racist policy and if members of my party are going to be called racists in this thread, then I am going to remind Democrats of their racist policies, both past and current. That said, the issue is near and dear to my heart. I want to point out something about affirmative action. It is bad politics. Asian Americans are for the most part very loyal Democratic voters and education is perhaps their most important issue. It makes no political sense to punish your most loyal constituents on the issue most dear to their heart. Why does the Democratic party do this? The answer is it is supported by the university administrators. They want voters to vote for more funds and they know that Asian American votes are in the bag. Asian Americans will vote to fund education even if the system is rigged against them. What the university administrations worry about is how African Americans will vote. Their well founded concern is that if too few African Americans are admitted to universities then African Americans will no longer vote to increase funding and this will hurt the bottom line of their institution and in the end their salary. For this reason the administration of universities badly want affirmative action and the Democratic party is listening to the elites in the administration instead of the rank and file who are against racial discrimination. How bad exactly do you think affirmative action has hurt Asian Americans? Are you aware the case is being brought by a white guy and is not supported by the Asian communities? If you hate racism there is at least 10,000 other things to be more mad at. You are just getting your information from the wrong sources. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-americans-support-affirmative-action-here-s-why-misconceptions-n1247806According to the national 2020 Asian American Voter Survey, which examined almost 1,570 voters, targeting the six largest national origin groups, found that 70 percent of Asian Americans supported affirmative action, while 16 percent opposed it. Chinese Americans, who were the least likely of the ethnicities to back the program, still favored it at a majority of 56 percent.
Data on Harvard’s own admissions shows that race-conscious admissions have benefitted all communities, including Asian Americans, producing a more diverse student body, Yang said.
Harvard’s admissions statistics show that the share of its admitted class that is Asian American has grown by 27 percent since 2010, according to the university's response to the lawsuit. When looking at its class of 2023, Asian Americans make up more than 25 percent, while Latinx students comprise just over 12 percent and Black students constitute more than 14 percent. Vincent Pan, co-executive director of nonprofit Chinese for Affirmative Action, agreed, noting that while the support and leadership from the Asian American community on the issue of affirmative action is too often ignored, there does continue to be a segment of the population that is complicit in the right-wing agenda to upend race-conscious programs.
“Their positioning undermines work against anti-Asian racism that requires multiracial solidarity, making more visible the needs of less visible AAPI groups and dismantling anti-Black stereotypes," Pan said, referring to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. https://nyunews.com/opinion/2021/04/07/asian-americans-affirmative-action/These white affirmative action opponents don’t have the interests of Asians in mind. Rather, Asian students are being weaponized against marginalized college hopefuls. Blum intentionally invokes the model minority myth by portraying all Asians as highly successful individuals unfairly hurt by affirmative action. This advances the false narrative that Asian American students are a monolith, and completely ignores Asians who do not fit the model minority stereotype. Only about half of Asian Americans hold a bachelor’s degree or higher.
It’s no surprise, then, that more than 135 Asian American organizations banded together to support affirmative action after Blum filed his case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Blum_(litigant) I don't know anything about the case you are referring to. The fact that some Asian Americans support discrimination against their race does not make the policy okay or not racist. Racial discrimination is racist and wrong and the fact that some Democrats and some Asian Americans support it does not make it any better. The motives of Republicans are pure on this issue and many other issues. We supported an end to slavery and 300k of us died freeing slaves not because it was easy but because it was right. We fought hard to win voting rights for African Americans knowing full well that most of them would vote against our party because it was right. There is no point winning elections if you don't use your power for good and securing voting rights for African Americans was good we are proud of our party for doing that. We oppose abortion knowing full well that most of the women getting abortions are Democrats and if we succeed there will be more children raised by Democrats and most of those children will likely become Democrats themselves and vote against our party. We know we will lose elections over this, but killing children is wrong and we would rather do good. We will smile as the children whose lives we have saved vote against us because it is their vote and their life and their choice. You should support a policy because it is the right policy. If your defense of a policy is that someone else supports it, then you are engaging in group think. 3000+ pages and that may be the most dubious claim I have yet read. I shall concede the abortion topic. While I hugely disagree, I think this is an intractable issue where the pro-life side is engaging earnestly as per their values. I don’t think the motive is to subjugate women or whatever charges people make. That may be the end result, and the rationale (often religious in nature) used to justify it is, to me incorrect, but I think it’s an earnestly held belief via that framework. I liked that he fought and died to free slaves. That was good at him. Can’t call him racist if he fought and died to free slaves. Of course if what he means is that the club he’s in did that 150 years ago but all those club members are dead and there are brand new club members now and also if you look at the writings of those club members 150 years ago they were still super fucking racist then the argument falls apart. But still, good job. Nobody wants to be exactly as anti racist as either side on the civil war. You should want to be way less racist than the least racist side. And yet somehow Confederate flags keep showing up in Republican areas. If the best argument you had was that 150 years ago the Republicans opposed the Confederacy then you don’t have a good argument.
Yes my club fought and in many cases died to free the slaves. I am proud of them. They did good. Trivializing slavery as merely racist minimizes such a great travesty. The problem is not that the Democrats failed to enslave all races equally. The problem is that slavery is terrible no matter who it is purpotrated on.
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United States43646 Posts
On March 02 2022 08:22 meadbert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 07:57 KwarK wrote:On March 02 2022 07:45 WombaT wrote:On March 02 2022 07:30 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 07:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 02 2022 06:37 meadbert wrote:On March 02 2022 06:19 WombaT wrote:
One crucial error you appear to be making is assuming that people criticising the current sorry state of the Republican Party are dyed in the wool Democrats.
At least per the thread they’re either not even Americans like myself, or reluctant Dem voters who spend as much time criticising that party.
‘What about the Dems’ doesn’t really sting if one is not a Dem.
Affirmative action in certain instances being detrimental to Asian Americans is, to me a valid area for discussion but why does it seemingly exclusively come up to deflect from any and all other credible accusations of racism in other quarters?
Other causes the wider-Asian American community bring to the fore don’t seem nearly as enthusiastically adopted, it makes one rather cynical that concern for this issue is at best myopic, at worst a disingenuous way to crowbar ‘the left are the real racists’ narratives into the discourse I think you make a lot of good points here. As I have not heard a single person defend affirmative action in this thread it sounds like you all are not the racists. I am heartened to discover this. To be fair, there is some truth, that I was using affirmative action as a crow-bar. It is a horribly racist policy and if members of my party are going to be called racists in this thread, then I am going to remind Democrats of their racist policies, both past and current. That said, the issue is near and dear to my heart. I want to point out something about affirmative action. It is bad politics. Asian Americans are for the most part very loyal Democratic voters and education is perhaps their most important issue. It makes no political sense to punish your most loyal constituents on the issue most dear to their heart. Why does the Democratic party do this? The answer is it is supported by the university administrators. They want voters to vote for more funds and they know that Asian American votes are in the bag. Asian Americans will vote to fund education even if the system is rigged against them. What the university administrations worry about is how African Americans will vote. Their well founded concern is that if too few African Americans are admitted to universities then African Americans will no longer vote to increase funding and this will hurt the bottom line of their institution and in the end their salary. For this reason the administration of universities badly want affirmative action and the Democratic party is listening to the elites in the administration instead of the rank and file who are against racial discrimination. How bad exactly do you think affirmative action has hurt Asian Americans? Are you aware the case is being brought by a white guy and is not supported by the Asian communities? If you hate racism there is at least 10,000 other things to be more mad at. You are just getting your information from the wrong sources. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-americans-support-affirmative-action-here-s-why-misconceptions-n1247806According to the national 2020 Asian American Voter Survey, which examined almost 1,570 voters, targeting the six largest national origin groups, found that 70 percent of Asian Americans supported affirmative action, while 16 percent opposed it. Chinese Americans, who were the least likely of the ethnicities to back the program, still favored it at a majority of 56 percent.
Data on Harvard’s own admissions shows that race-conscious admissions have benefitted all communities, including Asian Americans, producing a more diverse student body, Yang said.
Harvard’s admissions statistics show that the share of its admitted class that is Asian American has grown by 27 percent since 2010, according to the university's response to the lawsuit. When looking at its class of 2023, Asian Americans make up more than 25 percent, while Latinx students comprise just over 12 percent and Black students constitute more than 14 percent. Vincent Pan, co-executive director of nonprofit Chinese for Affirmative Action, agreed, noting that while the support and leadership from the Asian American community on the issue of affirmative action is too often ignored, there does continue to be a segment of the population that is complicit in the right-wing agenda to upend race-conscious programs.
“Their positioning undermines work against anti-Asian racism that requires multiracial solidarity, making more visible the needs of less visible AAPI groups and dismantling anti-Black stereotypes," Pan said, referring to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. https://nyunews.com/opinion/2021/04/07/asian-americans-affirmative-action/These white affirmative action opponents don’t have the interests of Asians in mind. Rather, Asian students are being weaponized against marginalized college hopefuls. Blum intentionally invokes the model minority myth by portraying all Asians as highly successful individuals unfairly hurt by affirmative action. This advances the false narrative that Asian American students are a monolith, and completely ignores Asians who do not fit the model minority stereotype. Only about half of Asian Americans hold a bachelor’s degree or higher.
It’s no surprise, then, that more than 135 Asian American organizations banded together to support affirmative action after Blum filed his case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Blum_(litigant) I don't know anything about the case you are referring to. The fact that some Asian Americans support discrimination against their race does not make the policy okay or not racist. Racial discrimination is racist and wrong and the fact that some Democrats and some Asian Americans support it does not make it any better. The motives of Republicans are pure on this issue and many other issues. We supported an end to slavery and 300k of us died freeing slaves not because it was easy but because it was right. We fought hard to win voting rights for African Americans knowing full well that most of them would vote against our party because it was right. There is no point winning elections if you don't use your power for good and securing voting rights for African Americans was good we are proud of our party for doing that. We oppose abortion knowing full well that most of the women getting abortions are Democrats and if we succeed there will be more children raised by Democrats and most of those children will likely become Democrats themselves and vote against our party. We know we will lose elections over this, but killing children is wrong and we would rather do good. We will smile as the children whose lives we have saved vote against us because it is their vote and their life and their choice. You should support a policy because it is the right policy. If your defense of a policy is that someone else supports it, then you are engaging in group think. 3000+ pages and that may be the most dubious claim I have yet read. I shall concede the abortion topic. While I hugely disagree, I think this is an intractable issue where the pro-life side is engaging earnestly as per their values. I don’t think the motive is to subjugate women or whatever charges people make. That may be the end result, and the rationale (often religious in nature) used to justify it is, to me incorrect, but I think it’s an earnestly held belief via that framework. I liked that he fought and died to free slaves. That was good at him. Can’t call him racist if he fought and died to free slaves. Of course if what he means is that the club he’s in did that 150 years ago but all those club members are dead and there are brand new club members now and also if you look at the writings of those club members 150 years ago they were still super fucking racist then the argument falls apart. But still, good job. Nobody wants to be exactly as anti racist as either side on the civil war. You should want to be way less racist than the least racist side. And yet somehow Confederate flags keep showing up in Republican areas. If the best argument you had was that 150 years ago the Republicans opposed the Confederacy then you don’t have a good argument. Yes my club fought and in many cases died to free the slaves. I am proud of them. They did good. Trivializing slavery as merely racist minimizes such a great travesty. The problem is not that the Democrats failed to enslave all races equally. The problem is that slavery is terrible no matter who it is purpotrated on.
No they didn’t. The 150 year ago Republican Party is not the same thing as the union army. The modern Republican Party is not the same thing as the 150 year ago Republican Party. You can’t go around telling people you’re not a racist because you’re a few steps removed from having fought against the CSA, especially if you’re waving a Confederate flag at the same time. Those few steps matter. You can’t hand wave from a picture of an elephant to the Gettysburg address. There are intervening steps you need to cover if you want to argue that modern Republicans basically won the Battle of Appomattox Court House.
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The concept of time seems to be escaping him. I don't think he understands how long it has been from when the civil war was. Or how the people in charge of the party sometimes die and other people replace them.
I'm just waiting for him to explain Obama I've been on facebook enough to know the garbage the republican apologists say about that.
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EPT
