EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3513
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On February 19 2022 12:27 JimmiC wrote: You think people would react well if Russia invaded with a false flag aftet it happened? You dont think facebook would be lit up with how the US is lying again? Hell fox news would be getting record ratings saying Biden planned the whole thing to cover up Hunters business dealings. The only way to have any credibility is before. Even proof some how dated would be called fake. You publically announce it and it does not work. If you believe its a credible threat I think its the right move. I cant imagine the stories if Biden tried to explain he didnt talk about for fear it might not happen and would hurt his approval ratings. I think more people would react well if Biden kept the US's intelligence between its allies and made more general public statements in the lead up to things and more specific statements after the fact, yes. And I don't think I'm alone in this. Fox news will make Biden look like a moronic criminal to its viewers no matter what. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18494 Posts
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KwarK
United States44449 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5238 Posts
But then again, my knowledge on geopolitics, intelligence operatives etc are vastly underwhelming. I feel like spy movies portray just the tip - albeit satirically - of how the deception-counterdeception game is played, but again, it's only guess work for obvious reasons. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On February 19 2022 16:31 Acrofales wrote: While I think the US's stance in general is too aggressive and is just adding oil to the fire, naming the when and how it Russia's most likely tactic does immediately make it so that Russia can no longer do that. Sure, Russia spins it to make it look like they never intended that in the first place and the US intelligence is incompetent, and that may be true. But even if the intelligence was right, that door is effectively closed to Russia by announcing it. I am exceedingly skeptical of this. Especially after a couple of weeks of things being called out and then not happening, it seems borderline irrelevant to me whether the US `called it' correctly or not. And if Putin does genuinely intend to invade I doubt he's going to let the potential whens and hows being known completely stop him, that seems wishful at best. | ||
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
On February 19 2022 17:00 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: I am exceedingly skeptical of this. Especially after a couple of weeks of things being called out and then not happening, it seems borderline irrelevant to me whether the US `called it' correctly or not. And if Putin does genuinely intend to invade I doubt he's going to let the potential whens and hows being known completely stop him, that seems wishful at best. Yeah, Putin knows that the US will debunk his false flag operations, but that's irrelevant. His goal is to sow enough doubt that he can plausibly sell it to his people. The fact that it's shown to be false doesn't subtract from it. | ||
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
On February 19 2022 07:40 LegalLord wrote: The situation has some significant ambiguity to it and Biden’s administration apparently thinks that overreacting to tentative intelligence adds credibility, even after the first few reports turn out to be wrong. Or so they say, a broken clock is right twice a day. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
The three Republicans in Michigan who are running for Attorney General all say they oppose the outcome of Griswold v. Connecticut which basically said you cant ban contraceptives because it violates privacy. So uh, they want to be able to ban the use of contraceptives. Democrats are priming the stage to let this sort of shit take hold. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On February 19 2022 17:30 gobbledydook wrote: Or so they say, a broken clock is right twice a day. I mean the things that I believe are true - Russia has a lot of troops and military equipment on the border of Ukraine and in the black sea. - US has 24/7 surveillance on the border at this point, between Satellites and the Global Hawks that have been patrolling the border for the last couple of weeks. - They probably do have some credible intelligence, and so do their allies, and together they can get a pretty good idea. Orders have to trickle too far down the chain of command for it to not get leaked at some point. I would personally prefer that the US continues to cry wolf if they think it's credible, and for Russia to reconsider, rather than for war to break out. Until the first tank rolls across the border, it's just a very large display of force. | ||
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iFU.spx
Russian Federation387 Posts
Or are there any proofs that im missing? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On February 19 2022 19:35 iFU.spx wrote: Other then the army at the border and the previous invasion of Crimea?that's so disgusting to hear from US gov that Russia gonna invade Ukraine without any proofs. It sounds like US wants to escalate conflict in region. Or are there any proofs that im missing? How is the US seeking to escalate a conflict when it requires Russia to make the first move by crossing the Ukraine border? | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8225 Posts
On February 19 2022 19:35 iFU.spx wrote: that's so disgusting to hear from US gov that Russia gonna invade Ukraine without any proofs. It sounds like US wants to escalate conflict in region. Or are there any proofs that im missing? It’s disgusting from Russia to invade everyone that even attempts to escape its nefarious orbit, and to bully countries around it into submission constantly. What about that? | ||
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EnDeR_
Spain2958 Posts
On February 19 2022 19:08 Zambrah wrote: https://twitter.com/dananessel/status/1494833301110116355?s=20&t=0ex1xS06WcbOzQRSdWHBmg The three Republicans in Michigan who are running for Attorney General all say they oppose the outcome of Griswold v. Connecticut which basically said you cant ban contraceptives because it violates privacy. So uh, they want to be able to ban the use of contraceptives. Democrats are priming the stage to let this sort of shit take hold. I think that the only way things are going to change is if shit starts to hit the fan. Looking forward to the first lawsuit where someone is taken to court for using contraceptives and the subsequent national ridicule. | ||
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iFU.spx
Russian Federation387 Posts
On February 19 2022 19:47 Gorsameth wrote: Other then the army at the border and the previous invasion of Crimea? How is the US seeking to escalate a conflict when it requires Russia to make the first move by crossing the Ukraine border? Im not here to defend any of the sides. Just wanna know what US people think about situation. Please don't be offended. Army at the border. Russia organizing military training every year (with Belarus too). If your point is that this time there are much more troops, it is true, but that doesn't mean threat, because its regular thing. Every army need training. If u ask about why now and why border: I feel it was political response to lack of progress in minsk agreement and continued arming Ukraine by west and possibility of Ukraine joining NATO. Crimea. I pretty much don't care about politics on this topic. I visit it not long ago and saw no evidence of people suffering. It is painful to see that each country trying to raise its country's flag at this region just for political or economical reasons. How is the US seeking to escalate a conflict. Western media continuesly making news that russian forces near ukraine is a threat and Russia gonna invade. It happense every year, for example https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/world/europe/-ukraine-russia-putin-invasion.html So my point is this is planned scenario for both sides: Russia planned to increase amount of troops in upcoming military trainings for political reasons to force discussion. US planned to ignore those discussions by making propaganda about this military training as a threat to Ukraine. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5914 Posts
On February 19 2022 19:47 Gorsameth wrote: Other then the army at the border and the previous invasion of Crimea? How is the US seeking to escalate a conflict when it requires Russia to make the first move by crossing the Ukraine border? Not to forget their troops in Donbas. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10026 Posts
On February 19 2022 20:40 iFU.spx wrote: Im not here to defend any of the sides. Just wanna know what US people think about situation. Please don't be offended. Army at the border. Russia organizing military training every year (with Belarus too). If your point is that this time there are much more troops, it is true, but that doesn't mean threat, because its regular thing. Every army need training. If u ask about why now and why border: I feel it was political response to lack of progress in minsk agreement and continued arming Ukraine by west and possibility of Ukraine joining NATO. Crimea. I pretty much don't care about politics on this topic. I visit it not long ago and saw no evidence of people suffering. It is painful to see that each country trying to raise its country's flag at this region just for political or economical reasons. How is the US seeking to escalate a conflict. Western media continuesly making news that russian forces near ukraine is a threat and Russia gonna invade. It happense every year, for example https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/world/europe/-ukraine-russia-putin-invasion.html So my point is this is planned scenario for both sides: Russia planned to increase amount of troops in upcoming military trainings for political reasons to force discussion. US planned to ignore those discussions by making propaganda about this military training as a threat to Ukraine. I'm not so sure about this. I've been massively against the idea of getting into conflict over Ukraine,. but Russia is clearly the aggressor here. Even if it is only massive, expensive mind games, which I wouldn't rule out (its how Putin likes to do things, push boundaries, keep the enemy off balance), its Russia initiating things here. I'm aware of the anti-Russia propaganda that goes on in the West, its the same with China, but it doesn't mean Russia and China are beyond criticism, and it isn't a justification to threaten Ukraine. | ||
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iFU.spx
Russian Federation387 Posts
On February 19 2022 21:16 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm not so sure about this. I've been massively against the idea of getting into conflict over Ukraine,. but Russia is clearly the aggressor here. Even if it is only massive, expensive mind games, which I wouldn't rule out (its how Putin likes to do things, push boundaries, keep the enemy off balance), its Russia initiating things here. I'm aware of the anti-Russia propaganda that goes on in the West, its the same with China, but it doesn't mean Russia and China are beyond criticism, and it isn't a justification to threaten Ukraine. It's not about what you against for. Its about what you think your gov is trying to achive with the steps they make. "Russia initiated things here". Yes, the main question is in definition of those "things" and what was the reasons behind them. If you think that "things" is threat to Ukraine, than this is nonsense. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10026 Posts
On February 19 2022 21:44 iFU.spx wrote: It's not about what you against for. Its about what you think your gov is trying to achive with the steps they make. "Russia initiated things here". Yes, the main question is in definition of those "things" and what was the reasons behind them. If you think that "things" is threat to Ukraine, than this is nonsense. Well I was referring to the Ukraine crisis. Are you suggesting the whole thing is being made up by the media, or exaggerated to a massive degree? Do you have evidence of this? | ||
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iFU.spx
Russian Federation387 Posts
On February 19 2022 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote: Well I was referring to the Ukraine crisis. Are you suggesting the whole thing is being made up by the media, or exaggerated to a massive degree? Do you have evidence of this? No (edit: im not suggesting anything), media telling stories about invasion for a long time, i posted one of the link above from nytimes, from google news history search. I just wonder why us gov started to hardly push that idea not long ago. So i think i can cut it up to 2 questions that i don't understand: 1. Why us gov started to say that ru gonna invade ukraine? (if the answer is because ru making military training with massive amount of troops on the border, than this is not enough for me) 2. Why ru gov decided to make such big military training at the border (if the answer is threat to ukraine, than this is not enough for me. Interesting to hear political reason behind it) | ||
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