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On April 23 2021 18:21 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 16:12 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 23 2021 15:09 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 06:59 EnDeR_ wrote:I'd like to weigh in on the semantic argument we are having on the use of the word frequently in Kwark's post like 10 pages ago. Let's whip out the dictionary definition: Frequently adv. : at frequent or short intervals. It's hard to find statistics because police shootings that do not lead to death are not recorded (holy shit!). But let's pull a number out of our ass, say one in 3 police shootings end up with someone dead (police officers are only 33% accurate in their shooting so let's just use that for the purpose of this discussion). There are about 1000 recorded deaths by cop in the US per year according to the wapo www.washingtonpost.comThe percentage of convicted felons over property is about 1/6th felonvoting.procon.orgSo, for the sake of this argument, let's say that there were 3k shootings in a year and 1/6th of those happened to suspects commuting property crime, which leaves us with about 500 every year. That's about twice a day. You could certainly describe that as "frequently". I would argue that something that happens weekly (so one order of magnitude less frequently than what I assumed above) would still be described as frequently according to the dictionary definition so I'd say Kwark was justified in his use of the word frequently. This post is full of bad assumptions to arrive at a fictional conclusion. You're really going to declare that people are shot at by police roughly twice a day for stealing stuff? Even if you believe such nonsense why would you believe that none of this being is reported or video recorded or witnessed? And if it is being reported or video taped why not post those videos/stories instead of these ones where people are trying to stab others? Again, posts with faulty logic go completely under the radar and free of scrutiny as long as the person saying it appears to be on your "side." I am more than willing to adjust the numbers if you've got better data, this is a thought experiment here. I did a quick Google search and realised that police are not required to disclose how many times their officers discharge their weapons so stats on this don't actually exist. The best we can do is put forward our best guess. Which assumption do you think is faulty and what would you suggest is a more reasonable one and why? Please document your sources so we can arrive at a more accurate number. It's simple: Post all of the stories where people are being shot or shot at for stealing things! According to you it's happening twice a day and according to Kwark it happens very frequently. There are cameras EVERYWHERE these days. Even most cops wear body cameras these days. Do you really think if this was happening everyday this wouldn't be on the news instead of the stabby girl? Do you think stabby girl is the best case of police brutality to protest over if people are getting shot for stealing TVs? Why is nobody talking about all these people supposedly getting shot for stealing TVs? I don't even really want to argue about this anymore. I don't know why you and everyone else keeps doubling down on this. If this was happening we would surely be talking about it instead of stabby girl so the sheer fact that we aren't talking about it should tell you everything you need to know.
We are talking about stabby girl because it's not a clear cut example. There is merit in the argument that a life probably was saved by shooting stabby girl and, therefore, the shooting was justified. Equally, there is merit in saying that shooting stabby girl was the wrong thing to do and perhaps something the police should not be allowed to do. It's a grey area.
Police shooting suspects for property-related crime is far harder to morally justify, so we don't talk about it because what would be the argument exactly? Additionally, if police shoots at a suspect that is stealing a tv (or a car) and misses, it won't make the news because 'police shoots at suspect, suspect gets away' is not clickbaity. 'Police shoots dead teenage girl in ordinary disturbance call' is clickbaity so it gets reported.
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On April 23 2021 17:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 17:38 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 23 2021 17:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 23 2021 03:33 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2021 03:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:
One thing that is missing here is that if a cop HAS to shoot at someone threatening someone else with a knife, he should at the very least aim to shoot one bullet in a non lethal area. You can absolutely disable someone with a gun without putting four bullets in his chest. I can guarantee that someone with a bullet is the leg, in the shoulder or in the arm is not a threat, knofe or not. I don’t think this is right. They can’t shoot for shit, aiming at centre mass is the safest way to not shoot someone else. Ok, but then what’s the benefit of shooting four bullets? Why not shoot one when there is at least a chance the victim survives, which is always, 100% cases, the best option? Police probably did some stats and found that shooting only once probably doesn't stop the threat in the majority of situations, you have to take into account poor aim and low stopping power of bullets in the first place. In a climate where threat elimination is the goal, police are likely trained to shoot their guns 4 times to stop a threat. This officer probably just followed their training. The whole thing is insane. My impression discussing with people from the US is that, beyond the police, lots of people find it reasonable to kill someone if they do the wrong thing or could be a threat. I have never met anyone here that thought that shooting someone who trespasses on your property is anything else than cold murder unless they directly threaten your life. Seems to be perfectly fine for lots of americans. You can train and form the police all you want, if folks think that assasssinating the bad guy is the way to go, those killings will continue.
No argument from me here! It is certainly a cultural difference.
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United States10501 Posts
On April 23 2021 18:32 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 18:21 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 16:12 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 23 2021 15:09 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 06:59 EnDeR_ wrote:I'd like to weigh in on the semantic argument we are having on the use of the word frequently in Kwark's post like 10 pages ago. Let's whip out the dictionary definition: Frequently adv. : at frequent or short intervals. It's hard to find statistics because police shootings that do not lead to death are not recorded (holy shit!). But let's pull a number out of our ass, say one in 3 police shootings end up with someone dead (police officers are only 33% accurate in their shooting so let's just use that for the purpose of this discussion). There are about 1000 recorded deaths by cop in the US per year according to the wapo www.washingtonpost.comThe percentage of convicted felons over property is about 1/6th felonvoting.procon.orgSo, for the sake of this argument, let's say that there were 3k shootings in a year and 1/6th of those happened to suspects commuting property crime, which leaves us with about 500 every year. That's about twice a day. You could certainly describe that as "frequently". I would argue that something that happens weekly (so one order of magnitude less frequently than what I assumed above) would still be described as frequently according to the dictionary definition so I'd say Kwark was justified in his use of the word frequently. This post is full of bad assumptions to arrive at a fictional conclusion. You're really going to declare that people are shot at by police roughly twice a day for stealing stuff? Even if you believe such nonsense why would you believe that none of this being is reported or video recorded or witnessed? And if it is being reported or video taped why not post those videos/stories instead of these ones where people are trying to stab others? Again, posts with faulty logic go completely under the radar and free of scrutiny as long as the person saying it appears to be on your "side." I am more than willing to adjust the numbers if you've got better data, this is a thought experiment here. I did a quick Google search and realised that police are not required to disclose how many times their officers discharge their weapons so stats on this don't actually exist. The best we can do is put forward our best guess. Which assumption do you think is faulty and what would you suggest is a more reasonable one and why? Please document your sources so we can arrive at a more accurate number. It's simple: Post all of the stories where people are being shot or shot at for stealing things! According to you it's happening twice a day and according to Kwark it happens very frequently. There are cameras EVERYWHERE these days. Even most cops wear body cameras these days. Do you really think if this was happening everyday this wouldn't be on the news instead of the stabby girl? Do you think stabby girl is the best case of police brutality to protest over if people are getting shot for stealing TVs? Why is nobody talking about all these people supposedly getting shot for stealing TVs? I don't even really want to argue about this anymore. I don't know why you and everyone else keeps doubling down on this. If this was happening we would surely be talking about it instead of stabby girl so the sheer fact that we aren't talking about it should tell you everything you need to know. We are talking about stabby girl because it's not a clear cut example. There is merit in the argument that a life probably was saved by shooting stabby girl and, therefore, the shooting was justified. Equally, there is merit in saying that shooting stabby girl was the wrong thing to do and perhaps something the police should not be allowed to do. It's a grey area. Police shooting suspects for property-related crime is far harder to morally justify, so we don't talk about it because what would be the argument exactly? Additionally, if police shoots at a suspect that is stealing a tv (or a car) and misses, it won't make the news because 'police shoots at suspect, suspect gets away' is not clickbaity. 'Police shoots dead teenage girl in ordinary disturbance call' is clickbaity so it gets reported.
So you seriously think BLM is going to choose a "morally grey" case as their example of police brutality to protest over when people are being "clear-cut" shot and murdered for no good reason? That just makes no sense so I'm not sure why you would believe that.
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On April 23 2021 18:32 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 18:21 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 16:12 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 23 2021 15:09 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 06:59 EnDeR_ wrote:I'd like to weigh in on the semantic argument we are having on the use of the word frequently in Kwark's post like 10 pages ago. Let's whip out the dictionary definition: Frequently adv. : at frequent or short intervals. It's hard to find statistics because police shootings that do not lead to death are not recorded (holy shit!). But let's pull a number out of our ass, say one in 3 police shootings end up with someone dead (police officers are only 33% accurate in their shooting so let's just use that for the purpose of this discussion). There are about 1000 recorded deaths by cop in the US per year according to the wapo www.washingtonpost.comThe percentage of convicted felons over property is about 1/6th felonvoting.procon.orgSo, for the sake of this argument, let's say that there were 3k shootings in a year and 1/6th of those happened to suspects commuting property crime, which leaves us with about 500 every year. That's about twice a day. You could certainly describe that as "frequently". I would argue that something that happens weekly (so one order of magnitude less frequently than what I assumed above) would still be described as frequently according to the dictionary definition so I'd say Kwark was justified in his use of the word frequently. This post is full of bad assumptions to arrive at a fictional conclusion. You're really going to declare that people are shot at by police roughly twice a day for stealing stuff? Even if you believe such nonsense why would you believe that none of this being is reported or video recorded or witnessed? And if it is being reported or video taped why not post those videos/stories instead of these ones where people are trying to stab others? Again, posts with faulty logic go completely under the radar and free of scrutiny as long as the person saying it appears to be on your "side." I am more than willing to adjust the numbers if you've got better data, this is a thought experiment here. I did a quick Google search and realised that police are not required to disclose how many times their officers discharge their weapons so stats on this don't actually exist. The best we can do is put forward our best guess. Which assumption do you think is faulty and what would you suggest is a more reasonable one and why? Please document your sources so we can arrive at a more accurate number. It's simple: Post all of the stories where people are being shot or shot at for stealing things! According to you it's happening twice a day and according to Kwark it happens very frequently. There are cameras EVERYWHERE these days. Even most cops wear body cameras these days. Do you really think if this was happening everyday this wouldn't be on the news instead of the stabby girl? Do you think stabby girl is the best case of police brutality to protest over if people are getting shot for stealing TVs? Why is nobody talking about all these people supposedly getting shot for stealing TVs? I don't even really want to argue about this anymore. I don't know why you and everyone else keeps doubling down on this. If this was happening we would surely be talking about it instead of stabby girl so the sheer fact that we aren't talking about it should tell you everything you need to know. We are talking about stabby girl because it's not a clear cut example. There is merit in the argument that a life probably was saved by shooting stabby girl and, therefore, the shooting was justified. Equally, there is merit in saying that shooting stabby girl was the wrong thing to do and perhaps something the police should not be allowed to do. It's a grey area. Police shooting suspects for property-related crime is far harder to morally justify, so we don't talk about it because what would be the argument exactly? Additionally, if police shoots at a suspect that is stealing a tv (or a car) and misses, it won't make the news because 'police shoots at suspect, suspect gets away' is not clickbaity. 'Police shoots dead teenage girl in ordinary disturbance call' is clickbaity so it gets reported.
Not to mention its in the news. We talk about what we know, who in the fuck legitimately has the time to find video of every police shooting? The shootings that get talked about in here are the ones that we know about which are typically the ones that end in death because death makes the news more interested in picking the story up.
"If it was a big deal we'd hear about it!" as if the huge news organizations have the time or interest in portraying literally every single police shooting in the country. This is a dumb ass brand of logic that asserts because you aren't seeing something at all times it isn't happening.
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United States10501 Posts
Goodness. Once again, you really think the news wouldn't run a story of a black person getting shot or even just shot at by police for stealing a TV or other property? Even if the news wouldn't portray it you really think it wouldn't just go viral organically from activist groups like BLM on twitter? I really am starting to feel like I am being trolled.
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United States10501 Posts
Shooting a black person for stealing a TV would be the most egregious example of police brutality. It would be a ratings bonanza for the news media. The idea that they don't have the time or interest in portraying such cases...
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On April 23 2021 18:49 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 18:32 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 23 2021 18:21 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 16:12 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 23 2021 15:09 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 06:59 EnDeR_ wrote:I'd like to weigh in on the semantic argument we are having on the use of the word frequently in Kwark's post like 10 pages ago. Let's whip out the dictionary definition: Frequently adv. : at frequent or short intervals. It's hard to find statistics because police shootings that do not lead to death are not recorded (holy shit!). But let's pull a number out of our ass, say one in 3 police shootings end up with someone dead (police officers are only 33% accurate in their shooting so let's just use that for the purpose of this discussion). There are about 1000 recorded deaths by cop in the US per year according to the wapo www.washingtonpost.comThe percentage of convicted felons over property is about 1/6th felonvoting.procon.orgSo, for the sake of this argument, let's say that there were 3k shootings in a year and 1/6th of those happened to suspects commuting property crime, which leaves us with about 500 every year. That's about twice a day. You could certainly describe that as "frequently". I would argue that something that happens weekly (so one order of magnitude less frequently than what I assumed above) would still be described as frequently according to the dictionary definition so I'd say Kwark was justified in his use of the word frequently. This post is full of bad assumptions to arrive at a fictional conclusion. You're really going to declare that people are shot at by police roughly twice a day for stealing stuff? Even if you believe such nonsense why would you believe that none of this being is reported or video recorded or witnessed? And if it is being reported or video taped why not post those videos/stories instead of these ones where people are trying to stab others? Again, posts with faulty logic go completely under the radar and free of scrutiny as long as the person saying it appears to be on your "side." I am more than willing to adjust the numbers if you've got better data, this is a thought experiment here. I did a quick Google search and realised that police are not required to disclose how many times their officers discharge their weapons so stats on this don't actually exist. The best we can do is put forward our best guess. Which assumption do you think is faulty and what would you suggest is a more reasonable one and why? Please document your sources so we can arrive at a more accurate number. It's simple: Post all of the stories where people are being shot or shot at for stealing things! According to you it's happening twice a day and according to Kwark it happens very frequently. There are cameras EVERYWHERE these days. Even most cops wear body cameras these days. Do you really think if this was happening everyday this wouldn't be on the news instead of the stabby girl? Do you think stabby girl is the best case of police brutality to protest over if people are getting shot for stealing TVs? Why is nobody talking about all these people supposedly getting shot for stealing TVs? I don't even really want to argue about this anymore. I don't know why you and everyone else keeps doubling down on this. If this was happening we would surely be talking about it instead of stabby girl so the sheer fact that we aren't talking about it should tell you everything you need to know. We are talking about stabby girl because it's not a clear cut example. There is merit in the argument that a life probably was saved by shooting stabby girl and, therefore, the shooting was justified. Equally, there is merit in saying that shooting stabby girl was the wrong thing to do and perhaps something the police should not be allowed to do. It's a grey area. Police shooting suspects for property-related crime is far harder to morally justify, so we don't talk about it because what would be the argument exactly? Additionally, if police shoots at a suspect that is stealing a tv (or a car) and misses, it won't make the news because 'police shoots at suspect, suspect gets away' is not clickbaity. 'Police shoots dead teenage girl in ordinary disturbance call' is clickbaity so it gets reported. So you seriously think BLM is going to choose a "morally grey" case as their example of police brutality to protest over when people are being "clear-cut" shot and murdered for no good reason? That just makes no sense so I'm not sure why you would believe that.
People and organisations may try to influence the process, ultimately given the complexity of today’s diffuse media landscape nobody can really choose what resonates or what doesn’t. Once a narrative is established people reinforce it or rail against it.
I’ve had pretty heated disagreements on this particular case, with people I’ve generally shared cause with for the reasons you outlined, but there’s a certain momentum that will pull in cases where police arguably didn’t behave improperly.
I mean, why do people ostensibly concerned for the wellbeing children have to invent convoluted conspiracies of shadowy cabals and paedophile cults and this gets media traction when actual child trafficking as part of the wider sex industry is a very well-documented phenomenon that provably exists.
As to why cases of other people being killed for no good reason don’t get a huge amount of traction when they should? In a crude sense it’s because to many people the bar of what constitutes a good reason is exceptionally low by global standards. Fleeing somebody’s home after a burglary, well fair game to be shot. Fleeing arrest, shooting is fair enough, committing petty theft, sure get shot, be mentally unstable you best believe that’s a paddling shooting.
Such things are rarer elsewhere, for sure but crucially more people’s sensibilities are such that this is considered a bad and noteworthy thing to begin with. It’s the combination of rarity and a cultural consideration of such lethality being societally undesirable that would see such stories punch through here, and not so much in the States.
It’s not an exclusively black or minority problem, they just tend to get it even worse/have mobilised as a wider community to bring it to the forefront of the conversation. It merely took the irrefutable evidence obtainable through the widespread uptake of smartphones for people to start believing the kind of testimonies they could previously deny as implausible or exaggerated.
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I do admit it is a bit frustrating to see for some on the right that the police can do no wrong (can literally kneel on someone for 9 minutes and it is appropriate, non-lethal use of force) and for some on the left, it is murder to shoot an armed assailant who is most likely trying to kill someone with a knife.
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On April 23 2021 19:59 BlackJack wrote:
Goodness. Once again, you really think the news wouldn't run a story of a black person getting shot or even just shot at by police for stealing a TV or other property? Even if the news wouldn't portray it you really think it wouldn't just go viral organically from activist groups like BLM on twitter? I really am starting to feel like I am being trolled.
The news runs those stories all the time, they can't run all of them because it happens too fuckin' much.
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United States10501 Posts
On April 23 2021 20:27 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 19:59 BlackJack wrote:
Goodness. Once again, you really think the news wouldn't run a story of a black person getting shot or even just shot at by police for stealing a TV or other property? Even if the news wouldn't portray it you really think it wouldn't just go viral organically from activist groups like BLM on twitter? I really am starting to feel like I am being trolled. The news runs those stories all the time, they can't run all of them because it happens too fuckin' much.
Wasn't your argument that news media doesn't have the time or interest to talk about these cases and now you've pivoted to there are so many that they can't run all of them?
if there are so many, post them then. I have no idea why you are struggling to post these things that happen very frequently according to Kwark, twice a day according to EnDeR, and so often that they can't run all of them according to you.
I'm going to sleep now. This is getting silly.
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On April 23 2021 20:03 BlackJack wrote:
Shooting a black person for stealing a TV would be the most egregious example of police brutality. It would be a ratings bonanza for the news media. The idea that they don't have the time or interest in portraying such cases...
They’re a criminal and should be shot accordingly. I could vaguely respect those who stole TVs in the cathode ray tube era, those things were bloody heavy, but not these modern soft criminals with their pilfering of lightweight flat panelled televisions.
/s
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On April 23 2021 18:49 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 18:32 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 23 2021 18:21 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 16:12 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 23 2021 15:09 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 06:59 EnDeR_ wrote:I'd like to weigh in on the semantic argument we are having on the use of the word frequently in Kwark's post like 10 pages ago. Let's whip out the dictionary definition: Frequently adv. : at frequent or short intervals. It's hard to find statistics because police shootings that do not lead to death are not recorded (holy shit!). But let's pull a number out of our ass, say one in 3 police shootings end up with someone dead (police officers are only 33% accurate in their shooting so let's just use that for the purpose of this discussion). There are about 1000 recorded deaths by cop in the US per year according to the wapo www.washingtonpost.comThe percentage of convicted felons over property is about 1/6th felonvoting.procon.orgSo, for the sake of this argument, let's say that there were 3k shootings in a year and 1/6th of those happened to suspects commuting property crime, which leaves us with about 500 every year. That's about twice a day. You could certainly describe that as "frequently". I would argue that something that happens weekly (so one order of magnitude less frequently than what I assumed above) would still be described as frequently according to the dictionary definition so I'd say Kwark was justified in his use of the word frequently. This post is full of bad assumptions to arrive at a fictional conclusion. You're really going to declare that people are shot at by police roughly twice a day for stealing stuff? Even if you believe such nonsense why would you believe that none of this being is reported or video recorded or witnessed? And if it is being reported or video taped why not post those videos/stories instead of these ones where people are trying to stab others? Again, posts with faulty logic go completely under the radar and free of scrutiny as long as the person saying it appears to be on your "side." I am more than willing to adjust the numbers if you've got better data, this is a thought experiment here. I did a quick Google search and realised that police are not required to disclose how many times their officers discharge their weapons so stats on this don't actually exist. The best we can do is put forward our best guess. Which assumption do you think is faulty and what would you suggest is a more reasonable one and why? Please document your sources so we can arrive at a more accurate number. It's simple: Post all of the stories where people are being shot or shot at for stealing things! According to you it's happening twice a day and according to Kwark it happens very frequently. There are cameras EVERYWHERE these days. Even most cops wear body cameras these days. Do you really think if this was happening everyday this wouldn't be on the news instead of the stabby girl? Do you think stabby girl is the best case of police brutality to protest over if people are getting shot for stealing TVs? Why is nobody talking about all these people supposedly getting shot for stealing TVs? I don't even really want to argue about this anymore. I don't know why you and everyone else keeps doubling down on this. If this was happening we would surely be talking about it instead of stabby girl so the sheer fact that we aren't talking about it should tell you everything you need to know. We are talking about stabby girl because it's not a clear cut example. There is merit in the argument that a life probably was saved by shooting stabby girl and, therefore, the shooting was justified. Equally, there is merit in saying that shooting stabby girl was the wrong thing to do and perhaps something the police should not be allowed to do. It's a grey area. Police shooting suspects for property-related crime is far harder to morally justify, so we don't talk about it because what would be the argument exactly? Additionally, if police shoots at a suspect that is stealing a tv (or a car) and misses, it won't make the news because 'police shoots at suspect, suspect gets away' is not clickbaity. 'Police shoots dead teenage girl in ordinary disturbance call' is clickbaity so it gets reported. So you seriously think BLM is going to choose a "morally grey" case as their example of police brutality to protest over when people are being "clear-cut" shot and murdered for no good reason? That just makes no sense so I'm not sure why you would believe that.
Now I am just confused. I wouldn't go on a police brutality protest over stabby girl, and wouldn't presume to tell BLM what is worth protesting. Kwark gave 2 examples of this already happening.
I just did another quick google on the stats. There is a study from the 80's available: www.ojp.gov. This is quite old so things may have changed since then, but probably not massively.
My estimate that only 1 in 3 shootings is a deadly one wasn't too far off if you look at page 45, where it's closer to 30%. With regards to the type of crime where the shootings occurred, this is the relevant paragraph:
According to department records, almost all 320 persons shot were seemingly involved in criminal incidents-either directly engaged in illegal activity or acting in a suspicious manner. Of the rest, four were bystanders, one was a citizen attempting suicide, and five were police officers. Almost one third (32 percent) of the incidents to which the police responded involved disturbance calls: family quarrels, fights, assaults, disturbed persons, or reports of man or woman with a gun. Twenty-one percent of the incidents involved reports of a robbery in progress or pursuit of robbery suspects; a nearly equivalent amount (20 percent) involved a burglary in progress, larceny, tampering with an auto, or pursuit of subjects after an incident of this nature.
So I was wrong with my 16% of cases were involving property, it's actually closer to 50%. The frequency of police shootings involving property is probably closer to the range of 3-4 per day.
If you do not like this source, I'd be very happy to discuss any source you provide that disproves these findings.
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The US is much bigger than many realize (and the same goes for the world in general) and it's easy to make assumptions about the all powerful public eye that simply don't square with the sheer number of things happening at any given time or on any given day. We're making progress on making transparency a function of reliably consistent exposure, but arguing from notions of "if this were happening, we'd hear about it" is not persuasive, especially in the context of police actions other than those that result in death.
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On April 23 2021 20:37 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 20:27 Zambrah wrote:On April 23 2021 19:59 BlackJack wrote:
Goodness. Once again, you really think the news wouldn't run a story of a black person getting shot or even just shot at by police for stealing a TV or other property? Even if the news wouldn't portray it you really think it wouldn't just go viral organically from activist groups like BLM on twitter? I really am starting to feel like I am being trolled. The news runs those stories all the time, they can't run all of them because it happens too fuckin' much. Wasn't your argument that news media doesn't have the time or interest to talk about these cases and now you've pivoted to there are so many that they can't run all of them? if there are so many, post them then. I have no idea why you are struggling to post these things that happen very frequently according to Kwark, twice a day according to EnDeR, and so often that they can't run all of them according to you. I'm going to sleep now. This is getting silly.
This has been silly for a long time.
Lemme list some major cases of police killings and the related news generated
George Floyd, and the entire fuckin Chauvin trial, our current subject, Ma'Khia Bryant, Daunte Wright, Adam Toledo, were some of the recent famous cases in fucking April. These things happen with such intense regularity that you cant fucking cover everything. The news doesnt EXCLUSIVELY cover police shootings and killings either, dont forget mass shootings, and general news.
Cops shoots and kill like 3 people a day in this country, heres WaPo's thing about it, https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/
let me write these names out so you can possibly grasp the scope of how often this bullshit happens and how "well the news doesnt report on literally every single case so its obviously made up" is one of the dumbassedest takes I can fathom.
Ma'Khia Bryant
Unidentified White Person, Burnesville Minn.
Larry Jenkins
Unidentified Person, Alameda, Cali.
Robert Douglas Delgado
Alex Garcia
Sammie Barbosa
Unidentified Person, San Antonio, Tex.
Lindani Myeni
Marcelo Garcia
Jacob Wood
Peyton Ham
Anthony Thompson
Pier Alexander Shelton
Daunte Wright
Unidentified Person, San Marcos, Tex.
Unidentified Person, Rockford, Ill.
Joshua Mitchell
Unidentified Person, San Fernando, Cali.
DeShund Tanner
Douglas C. Barton
Unidentified Person, Whitewater, Cali.
Unidentified Person, Tallahassee, Flo.
James Alexander
Devin Wyteagle Kuykendall
Unidentified Person, Miami, Flo.
Tyler R. Green
Roy K. Jackel
Iremamber Sykap
Silas Lambert
Gabriel Casso
Jeffrey W. Appelt
Jose Arenas
Juan Carlos Estrada
Samuel Yeager
Noah Green
Unidentified Person, Long Beach, Cali.
Natzeryt Viertel
Unidentified Person, Hurdle Mills, NC
Unidentified Person, Corona, Cali.
Unidentified Person, Fremont, Cali.
DeShawn Tatum
James Iler
Steven Ross Glass
Thats April. Thats exclusively FATAL shootings, since we don't keep records on non-fatal shootings, so this is the fucking bare assed minimum FLOOR for where police shootings start at, and again this is JUST APRIL. Not enough time in the fucking day to run stories on all of the killings let alone shootings in this country.
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United States10501 Posts
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United States10501 Posts
On April 23 2021 20:55 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 20:37 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 20:27 Zambrah wrote:On April 23 2021 19:59 BlackJack wrote:
Goodness. Once again, you really think the news wouldn't run a story of a black person getting shot or even just shot at by police for stealing a TV or other property? Even if the news wouldn't portray it you really think it wouldn't just go viral organically from activist groups like BLM on twitter? I really am starting to feel like I am being trolled. The news runs those stories all the time, they can't run all of them because it happens too fuckin' much. Wasn't your argument that news media doesn't have the time or interest to talk about these cases and now you've pivoted to there are so many that they can't run all of them? if there are so many, post them then. I have no idea why you are struggling to post these things that happen very frequently according to Kwark, twice a day according to EnDeR, and so often that they can't run all of them according to you. I'm going to sleep now. This is getting silly. This has been silly for a long time. Lemme list some major cases of police killings and the related news generated George Floyd, and the entire fuckin Chauvin trial, our current subject, Ma'Khia Bryant, Daunte Wright, Adam Toledo, were some of the recent famous cases in fucking April. These things happen with such intense regularity that you cant fucking cover everything. The news doesnt EXCLUSIVELY cover police shootings and killings either, dont forget mass shootings, and general news. Cops shoots and kill like 3 people a day in this country, heres WaPo's thing about it, https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/let me write these names out so you can possibly grasp the scope of how often this bullshit happens and how "well the news doesnt report on literally every single case so its obviously made up" is one of the dumbassedest takes I can fathom. Ma'Khia Bryant Unidentified White Person, Burnesville Minn. Larry Jenkins Unidentified Person, Alameda, Cali. Robert Douglas Delgado Alex Garcia Sammie Barbosa Unidentified Person, San Antonio, Tex. Lindani Myeni Marcelo Garcia Jacob Wood Peyton Ham Anthony Thompson Pier Alexander Shelton Daunte Wright Unidentified Person, San Marcos, Tex. Unidentified Person, Rockford, Ill. Joshua Mitchell Unidentified Person, San Fernando, Cali. DeShund Tanner Douglas C. Barton Unidentified Person, Whitewater, Cali. Unidentified Person, Tallahassee, Flo. James Alexander Devin Wyteagle Kuykendall Unidentified Person, Miami, Flo. Tyler R. Green Roy K. Jackel Iremamber Sykap Silas Lambert Gabriel Casso Jeffrey W. Appelt Jose Arenas Juan Carlos Estrada Samuel Yeager Noah Green Unidentified Person, Long Beach, Cali. Natzeryt Viertel Unidentified Person, Hurdle Mills, NC Unidentified Person, Corona, Cali. Unidentified Person, Fremont, Cali. DeShawn Tatum James Iler Steven Ross Glass Thats April. Thats exclusively FATAL shootings, since we don't keep records on non-fatal shootings, so this is the fucking bare assed minimum FLOOR for where police shootings start at, and again this is JUST APRIL. Not enough time in the fucking day to run stories on all of the killings let alone shootings in this country.
Great. You have a list of every single person police killed for the month of April. Which ones were killed for stealing?
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On April 23 2021 21:14 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 20:55 Zambrah wrote:On April 23 2021 20:37 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 20:27 Zambrah wrote:On April 23 2021 19:59 BlackJack wrote:
Goodness. Once again, you really think the news wouldn't run a story of a black person getting shot or even just shot at by police for stealing a TV or other property? Even if the news wouldn't portray it you really think it wouldn't just go viral organically from activist groups like BLM on twitter? I really am starting to feel like I am being trolled. The news runs those stories all the time, they can't run all of them because it happens too fuckin' much. Wasn't your argument that news media doesn't have the time or interest to talk about these cases and now you've pivoted to there are so many that they can't run all of them? if there are so many, post them then. I have no idea why you are struggling to post these things that happen very frequently according to Kwark, twice a day according to EnDeR, and so often that they can't run all of them according to you. I'm going to sleep now. This is getting silly. This has been silly for a long time. Lemme list some major cases of police killings and the related news generated George Floyd, and the entire fuckin Chauvin trial, our current subject, Ma'Khia Bryant, Daunte Wright, Adam Toledo, were some of the recent famous cases in fucking April. These things happen with such intense regularity that you cant fucking cover everything. The news doesnt EXCLUSIVELY cover police shootings and killings either, dont forget mass shootings, and general news. Cops shoots and kill like 3 people a day in this country, heres WaPo's thing about it, https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/let me write these names out so you can possibly grasp the scope of how often this bullshit happens and how "well the news doesnt report on literally every single case so its obviously made up" is one of the dumbassedest takes I can fathom. Ma'Khia Bryant Unidentified White Person, Burnesville Minn. Larry Jenkins Unidentified Person, Alameda, Cali. Robert Douglas Delgado Alex Garcia Sammie Barbosa Unidentified Person, San Antonio, Tex. Lindani Myeni Marcelo Garcia Jacob Wood Peyton Ham Anthony Thompson Pier Alexander Shelton Daunte Wright Unidentified Person, San Marcos, Tex. Unidentified Person, Rockford, Ill. Joshua Mitchell Unidentified Person, San Fernando, Cali. DeShund Tanner Douglas C. Barton Unidentified Person, Whitewater, Cali. Unidentified Person, Tallahassee, Flo. James Alexander Devin Wyteagle Kuykendall Unidentified Person, Miami, Flo. Tyler R. Green Roy K. Jackel Iremamber Sykap Silas Lambert Gabriel Casso Jeffrey W. Appelt Jose Arenas Juan Carlos Estrada Samuel Yeager Noah Green Unidentified Person, Long Beach, Cali. Natzeryt Viertel Unidentified Person, Hurdle Mills, NC Unidentified Person, Corona, Cali. Unidentified Person, Fremont, Cali. DeShawn Tatum James Iler Steven Ross Glass Thats April. Thats exclusively FATAL shootings, since we don't keep records on non-fatal shootings, so this is the fucking bare assed minimum FLOOR for where police shootings start at, and again this is JUST APRIL. Not enough time in the fucking day to run stories on all of the killings let alone shootings in this country. Great. You have a list of every single person police killed for the month of April. Which ones were killed for stealing?
First one I tried on the list was property crime: www.google.com I don't have time to go through all of them, but it would be interesting to see if the pattern still holds from the 80's, i.e. did 41% of those on the list get killed for property crime?
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On April 23 2021 21:14 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 20:55 Zambrah wrote:On April 23 2021 20:37 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 20:27 Zambrah wrote:On April 23 2021 19:59 BlackJack wrote:
Goodness. Once again, you really think the news wouldn't run a story of a black person getting shot or even just shot at by police for stealing a TV or other property? Even if the news wouldn't portray it you really think it wouldn't just go viral organically from activist groups like BLM on twitter? I really am starting to feel like I am being trolled. The news runs those stories all the time, they can't run all of them because it happens too fuckin' much. Wasn't your argument that news media doesn't have the time or interest to talk about these cases and now you've pivoted to there are so many that they can't run all of them? if there are so many, post them then. I have no idea why you are struggling to post these things that happen very frequently according to Kwark, twice a day according to EnDeR, and so often that they can't run all of them according to you. I'm going to sleep now. This is getting silly. This has been silly for a long time. Lemme list some major cases of police killings and the related news generated George Floyd, and the entire fuckin Chauvin trial, our current subject, Ma'Khia Bryant, Daunte Wright, Adam Toledo, were some of the recent famous cases in fucking April. These things happen with such intense regularity that you cant fucking cover everything. The news doesnt EXCLUSIVELY cover police shootings and killings either, dont forget mass shootings, and general news. Cops shoots and kill like 3 people a day in this country, heres WaPo's thing about it, https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/let me write these names out so you can possibly grasp the scope of how often this bullshit happens and how "well the news doesnt report on literally every single case so its obviously made up" is one of the dumbassedest takes I can fathom. Ma'Khia Bryant Unidentified White Person, Burnesville Minn. Larry Jenkins Unidentified Person, Alameda, Cali. Robert Douglas Delgado Alex Garcia Sammie Barbosa Unidentified Person, San Antonio, Tex. Lindani Myeni Marcelo Garcia Jacob Wood Peyton Ham Anthony Thompson Pier Alexander Shelton Daunte Wright Unidentified Person, San Marcos, Tex. Unidentified Person, Rockford, Ill. Joshua Mitchell Unidentified Person, San Fernando, Cali. DeShund Tanner Douglas C. Barton Unidentified Person, Whitewater, Cali. Unidentified Person, Tallahassee, Flo. James Alexander Devin Wyteagle Kuykendall Unidentified Person, Miami, Flo. Tyler R. Green Roy K. Jackel Iremamber Sykap Silas Lambert Gabriel Casso Jeffrey W. Appelt Jose Arenas Juan Carlos Estrada Samuel Yeager Noah Green Unidentified Person, Long Beach, Cali. Natzeryt Viertel Unidentified Person, Hurdle Mills, NC Unidentified Person, Corona, Cali. Unidentified Person, Fremont, Cali. DeShawn Tatum James Iler Steven Ross Glass Thats April. Thats exclusively FATAL shootings, since we don't keep records on non-fatal shootings, so this is the fucking bare assed minimum FLOOR for where police shootings start at, and again this is JUST APRIL. Not enough time in the fucking day to run stories on all of the killings let alone shootings in this country. Great. You have a list of every single person police killed for the month of April. Which ones were killed for stealing?
I take it you concede the point that the news can reasonably cover every fucking shooting that happens in the US then.
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beating a drum about whether or not police are killing people for stealing when there are two stories this month alone in the news about killing children under 15 is ridiculous. there’s no gotcha to be made for using a hypothetical about the flippant regard for life people have in the united states just because the particular bar set doesn’t have daily examples when people are being murdered for much less than that. you’ve been beating it for pages at this point as if people aren’t dying for driving while black or because they had toy guns or because they were minding their own business in their own apartment, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
but yea, you right. 
your particular sentence that being killed for stealing would be the most egregious, by the way, is downright ignorant. there is of course a plethora of more egregious examples, some in the list provided to you. feel free to learn something or at least spare us that level of stupidity.
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On April 23 2021 21:14 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 20:55 Zambrah wrote:On April 23 2021 20:37 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2021 20:27 Zambrah wrote:On April 23 2021 19:59 BlackJack wrote:
Goodness. Once again, you really think the news wouldn't run a story of a black person getting shot or even just shot at by police for stealing a TV or other property? Even if the news wouldn't portray it you really think it wouldn't just go viral organically from activist groups like BLM on twitter? I really am starting to feel like I am being trolled. The news runs those stories all the time, they can't run all of them because it happens too fuckin' much. Wasn't your argument that news media doesn't have the time or interest to talk about these cases and now you've pivoted to there are so many that they can't run all of them? if there are so many, post them then. I have no idea why you are struggling to post these things that happen very frequently according to Kwark, twice a day according to EnDeR, and so often that they can't run all of them according to you. I'm going to sleep now. This is getting silly. This has been silly for a long time. Lemme list some major cases of police killings and the related news generated George Floyd, and the entire fuckin Chauvin trial, our current subject, Ma'Khia Bryant, Daunte Wright, Adam Toledo, were some of the recent famous cases in fucking April. These things happen with such intense regularity that you cant fucking cover everything. The news doesnt EXCLUSIVELY cover police shootings and killings either, dont forget mass shootings, and general news. Cops shoots and kill like 3 people a day in this country, heres WaPo's thing about it, https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/let me write these names out so you can possibly grasp the scope of how often this bullshit happens and how "well the news doesnt report on literally every single case so its obviously made up" is one of the dumbassedest takes I can fathom. Ma'Khia Bryant Unidentified White Person, Burnesville Minn. Larry Jenkins Unidentified Person, Alameda, Cali. Robert Douglas Delgado Alex Garcia Sammie Barbosa Unidentified Person, San Antonio, Tex. Lindani Myeni Marcelo Garcia Jacob Wood Peyton Ham Anthony Thompson Pier Alexander Shelton Daunte Wright Unidentified Person, San Marcos, Tex. Unidentified Person, Rockford, Ill. Joshua Mitchell Unidentified Person, San Fernando, Cali. DeShund Tanner Douglas C. Barton Unidentified Person, Whitewater, Cali. Unidentified Person, Tallahassee, Flo. James Alexander Devin Wyteagle Kuykendall Unidentified Person, Miami, Flo. Tyler R. Green Roy K. Jackel Iremamber Sykap Silas Lambert Gabriel Casso Jeffrey W. Appelt Jose Arenas Juan Carlos Estrada Samuel Yeager Noah Green Unidentified Person, Long Beach, Cali. Natzeryt Viertel Unidentified Person, Hurdle Mills, NC Unidentified Person, Corona, Cali. Unidentified Person, Fremont, Cali. DeShawn Tatum James Iler Steven Ross Glass Thats April. Thats exclusively FATAL shootings, since we don't keep records on non-fatal shootings, so this is the fucking bare assed minimum FLOOR for where police shootings start at, and again this is JUST APRIL. Not enough time in the fucking day to run stories on all of the killings let alone shootings in this country. Great. You have a list of every single person police killed for the month of April. Which ones were killed for stealing?
2009-2012 data says about 8-10.5% are shot dead due to a non violent property crime. Depending on the level of detail of the data used, as far as I can tell
Sources are Table 3 and 8, for your comfort.
What would be an acceptable % for you to accept that non violent property crime leads to being shot by police frequently? Or does it need to be in a timely succession that fits your impresion of frequently?
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EPT
