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On December 15 2020 23:19 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2020 09:49 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 08:34 Nevuk wrote:Bill Barr is stepping down, following a series of Trump attacks on him for not having dropped the news about Hunter Biden being under investigation for tax evasion shortly before the election when he had known about it since April (it really wouldn't have mattered : no one gave a shit about Hunter Biden except Trump diehards). A source close to Barr called Trump a deposed king clinging to power, which was ironic, coming from an ally of the person who singlehandedly has done the most to enshrine Trump's power. ("Barr cannot be intimidated by Trump. This is the real story. None of this matters -- it's the deposed king ranting. Irrelevant to the course of justice and to Trump's election loss" ) per CNN edition.cnn.com) The whole attempt to paint the Hunter Biden computer/emails story as some kind of Russian disinformation would've been smacked down hard if anyone leaked that there was an investigation of over two years into Hunter for Chinese money laundering. If you recall, his former business partner Bobulinski alleged all that back after the story, while confirming the authenticity of the emails. The margins of the Biden electoral win in the states that carried him over was between 0.24% and 1.16%. I wouldn't discount the potential release of corroborating information close to the election. You're a little looney on the "nobody gives a shit." As for the moral side, I've had enough of Comey-style prosecutorial releases near an election, and Barr made the right decision to sit on it. Let me issue this correction : no one would have given a shit about what Barr said on the matter. He burned all his credibility with his Mueller summary. In fact, his leaking would have made me even less inclined to believe it. Also, nice attempt to conflate seeming russian agprop with an actual investigation (no one was investigating based on the ridiculous laptop story).
Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side.
And wow, just wow, on the Russian agitprop. The main corroborator of the emails says the exact same allegations as what had been under official investigation for two years, and Democrats become blind and deaf. It’s too perfect for words!
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On December 16 2020 03:00 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2020 19:48 Slydie wrote:
I agree that it is mostly a theater in that the outcome has always been pretty clear.
What worries me is the intentions of said theater, and that for far too many henchmen and supporters, it is a very real fight for "justice."
If some of those insane law suits actually succeeded, and millions of legal votes were thrown out, Trump would not have backed off and admitted he didn't "really" want to destroy the US democracy, would he?
Yes, this. And what I find more disturbing than Trump's attempts is the Republican party's unwillingness to condemn him. What was it like 2/3rds of the House Republicans joined the Texas lawsuit to throw out millions of legal votes? Even the ones who can admit he is doing wrong do it in the most circumspect and reluctant way. At this point it looks to me like the Republican party is basically "we are willing to overlook literally anything so long our policies and judges are pushed through unopposed". Party over Country, victory at any cost.
Its basically there motto at the moment.
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United States43863 Posts
On December 16 2020 03:24 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2020 23:19 Nevuk wrote:On December 15 2020 09:49 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 08:34 Nevuk wrote:Bill Barr is stepping down, following a series of Trump attacks on him for not having dropped the news about Hunter Biden being under investigation for tax evasion shortly before the election when he had known about it since April (it really wouldn't have mattered : no one gave a shit about Hunter Biden except Trump diehards). A source close to Barr called Trump a deposed king clinging to power, which was ironic, coming from an ally of the person who singlehandedly has done the most to enshrine Trump's power. ("Barr cannot be intimidated by Trump. This is the real story. None of this matters -- it's the deposed king ranting. Irrelevant to the course of justice and to Trump's election loss" ) per CNN edition.cnn.com) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338614499981602819 The whole attempt to paint the Hunter Biden computer/emails story as some kind of Russian disinformation would've been smacked down hard if anyone leaked that there was an investigation of over two years into Hunter for Chinese money laundering. If you recall, his former business partner Bobulinski alleged all that back after the story, while confirming the authenticity of the emails. The margins of the Biden electoral win in the states that carried him over was between 0.24% and 1.16%. I wouldn't discount the potential release of corroborating information close to the election. You're a little looney on the "nobody gives a shit." As for the moral side, I've had enough of Comey-style prosecutorial releases near an election, and Barr made the right decision to sit on it. Let me issue this correction : no one would have given a shit about what Barr said on the matter. He burned all his credibility with his Mueller summary. In fact, his leaking would have made me even less inclined to believe it. Also, nice attempt to conflate seeming russian agprop with an actual investigation (no one was investigating based on the ridiculous laptop story). Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side. And wow, just wow, on the Russian agitprop. The main corroborator of the emails says the exact same allegations as what had been under official investigation for two years, and Democrats become blind and deaf. It’s too perfect for words!
The Mueller report stated that misuse of power did occur and that Trump was only not indicted because DoJ policy was for congress to bring impeachment proceedings when the President is criminal. Barr’s summary was that Trump did nothing wrong. Have you read the report?
Are you not at all curious why Mueller said Barr’s summary misled the public?
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Northern Ireland26528 Posts
On December 16 2020 03:00 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2020 19:48 Slydie wrote:
I agree that it is mostly a theater in that the outcome has always been pretty clear.
What worries me is the intentions of said theater, and that for far too many henchmen and supporters, it is a very real fight for "justice."
If some of those insane law suits actually succeeded, and millions of legal votes were thrown out, Trump would not have backed off and admitted he didn't "really" want to destroy the US democracy, would he?
Yes, this. And what I find more disturbing than Trump's attempts is the Republican party's unwillingness to condemn him. What was it like 2/3rds of the House Republicans joined the Texas lawsuit to throw out millions of legal votes? Even the ones who can admit he is doing wrong do it in the most circumspect and reluctant way. At this point it looks to me like the Republican party is basically "we are willing to overlook literally anything so long our policies and judges are pushed through unopposed".
Basically this. If we had an alternate timeline where Trump and the MAGA crowd were significantly distinct from the mainstream GOP that’s considerable less worrying than the GOP’s membership and supporters bending around all sorts of supposed principles to enable a Trump who was so cartoonishly villainous at points a writer for a 70s kids cartoon would have toned him down.
The absolute brazenness of his corruption and general incompetence, along with certain checks on his behaviour functioning were what stopped him doing far worse things, certainly not the tempering edge of mainstream conservatism.
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On December 16 2020 03:24 Danglars wrote:
Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side.
Let's not forget that even the federal court system was throwing shade at barr.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/us/politics/mueller-report-barr-judge-walton.html
Mr. Barr could not be trusted, Judge Reggie B. Walton said, citing “inconsistencies” between the attorney general’s statements about the report when it was secret and its actual contents that turned out to be more damaging to President Trump. Mr. Barr’s “lack of candor” called into question his “credibility and, in turn, the department’s” assurances to the court, Judge Walton said.
...
The differences between the report and Mr. Barr’s description of it “cause the court to seriously question whether Attorney General Barr made a calculated attempt to influence public discourse about the Mueller report in favor of President Trump despite certain findings in the redacted version of the Mueller report to the contrary,” wrote Judge Walton, an appointee of President George W. Bush.
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On December 16 2020 04:17 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2020 03:27 KwarK wrote:On December 16 2020 03:24 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 23:19 Nevuk wrote:On December 15 2020 09:49 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 08:34 Nevuk wrote:Bill Barr is stepping down, following a series of Trump attacks on him for not having dropped the news about Hunter Biden being under investigation for tax evasion shortly before the election when he had known about it since April (it really wouldn't have mattered : no one gave a shit about Hunter Biden except Trump diehards). A source close to Barr called Trump a deposed king clinging to power, which was ironic, coming from an ally of the person who singlehandedly has done the most to enshrine Trump's power. ("Barr cannot be intimidated by Trump. This is the real story. None of this matters -- it's the deposed king ranting. Irrelevant to the course of justice and to Trump's election loss" ) per CNN edition.cnn.com) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338614499981602819 The whole attempt to paint the Hunter Biden computer/emails story as some kind of Russian disinformation would've been smacked down hard if anyone leaked that there was an investigation of over two years into Hunter for Chinese money laundering. If you recall, his former business partner Bobulinski alleged all that back after the story, while confirming the authenticity of the emails. The margins of the Biden electoral win in the states that carried him over was between 0.24% and 1.16%. I wouldn't discount the potential release of corroborating information close to the election. You're a little looney on the "nobody gives a shit." As for the moral side, I've had enough of Comey-style prosecutorial releases near an election, and Barr made the right decision to sit on it. Let me issue this correction : no one would have given a shit about what Barr said on the matter. He burned all his credibility with his Mueller summary. In fact, his leaking would have made me even less inclined to believe it. Also, nice attempt to conflate seeming russian agprop with an actual investigation (no one was investigating based on the ridiculous laptop story). Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side. And wow, just wow, on the Russian agitprop. The main corroborator of the emails says the exact same allegations as what had been under official investigation for two years, and Democrats become blind and deaf. It’s too perfect for words! The Mueller report stated that misuse of power did occur and that Trump was only not indicted because DoJ policy was for congress to bring impeachment proceedings when the President is criminal. Barr’s summary was that Trump did nothing wrong. Have you read the report? Are you not at all curious why Mueller said Barr’s summary misled the public? He knows, he has been told here if he could not figure it out himself. But his schtick must continue, this is what makes him so much worse than xDaunt. Xdaunt was authentic, he said the things he thought whether or not they made your skin crawl. Danglars believes all the same stuff, perhaps more he just like to stick around the outsides to try to get people to react then claim innocence and get back on his soap box of morality. Danglars being honest or authentic is just not in his nature or character.
I have a different read on this. I do think he is being honest and authentic. He is very good at finding small contradictory things within people's posts and focussing on those at the expense of actually addressing what the poster was trying to get across, which leads to many posters accusing him of being dishonest. I think this is probably a result of his professional training (Danglars is a lawyer as far as I recall?). This does mean that sometimes Danglars comes across as obtuse, and he does have a tendency to ignore evidence that contradicts his points, but so do we all.
I have to say, one of the reasons I keep coming back to this thread is to read about what conservatives are talking about, i.e. from Danglars and other conservative posters, without having to wade into actual rightwing message boards that tend to be a bit more, shall we say, on the fanfic side. I also think the thread would benefit from having fewer personal attacks, as those just make people defensive.
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I think xDaunt was the lawyer, Im not sure Danglars has shared his profession here?
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On December 16 2020 05:10 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2020 04:17 JimmiC wrote:On December 16 2020 03:27 KwarK wrote:On December 16 2020 03:24 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 23:19 Nevuk wrote:On December 15 2020 09:49 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 08:34 Nevuk wrote:Bill Barr is stepping down, following a series of Trump attacks on him for not having dropped the news about Hunter Biden being under investigation for tax evasion shortly before the election when he had known about it since April (it really wouldn't have mattered : no one gave a shit about Hunter Biden except Trump diehards). A source close to Barr called Trump a deposed king clinging to power, which was ironic, coming from an ally of the person who singlehandedly has done the most to enshrine Trump's power. ("Barr cannot be intimidated by Trump. This is the real story. None of this matters -- it's the deposed king ranting. Irrelevant to the course of justice and to Trump's election loss" ) per CNN edition.cnn.com) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338614499981602819 The whole attempt to paint the Hunter Biden computer/emails story as some kind of Russian disinformation would've been smacked down hard if anyone leaked that there was an investigation of over two years into Hunter for Chinese money laundering. If you recall, his former business partner Bobulinski alleged all that back after the story, while confirming the authenticity of the emails. The margins of the Biden electoral win in the states that carried him over was between 0.24% and 1.16%. I wouldn't discount the potential release of corroborating information close to the election. You're a little looney on the "nobody gives a shit." As for the moral side, I've had enough of Comey-style prosecutorial releases near an election, and Barr made the right decision to sit on it. Let me issue this correction : no one would have given a shit about what Barr said on the matter. He burned all his credibility with his Mueller summary. In fact, his leaking would have made me even less inclined to believe it. Also, nice attempt to conflate seeming russian agprop with an actual investigation (no one was investigating based on the ridiculous laptop story). Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side. And wow, just wow, on the Russian agitprop. The main corroborator of the emails says the exact same allegations as what had been under official investigation for two years, and Democrats become blind and deaf. It’s too perfect for words! The Mueller report stated that misuse of power did occur and that Trump was only not indicted because DoJ policy was for congress to bring impeachment proceedings when the President is criminal. Barr’s summary was that Trump did nothing wrong. Have you read the report? Are you not at all curious why Mueller said Barr’s summary misled the public? He knows, he has been told here if he could not figure it out himself. But his schtick must continue, this is what makes him so much worse than xDaunt. Xdaunt was authentic, he said the things he thought whether or not they made your skin crawl. Danglars believes all the same stuff, perhaps more he just like to stick around the outsides to try to get people to react then claim innocence and get back on his soap box of morality. Danglars being honest or authentic is just not in his nature or character. I have a different read on this. I do think he is being honest and authentic. He is very good at finding small contradictory things within people's posts and focussing on those at the expense of actually addressing what the poster was trying to get across, which leads to many posters accusing him of being dishonest. I think this is probably a result of his professional training (Danglars is a lawyer as far as I recall?). This does mean that sometimes Danglars comes across as obtuse, and he does have a tendency to ignore evidence that contradicts his points, but so do we all. I have to say, one of the reasons I keep coming back to this thread is to read about what conservatives are talking about, i.e. from Danglars and other conservative posters, without having to wade into actual rightwing message boards that tend to be a bit more, shall we say, on the fanfic side. I also think the thread would benefit from having fewer personal attacks, as those just make people defensive.
This 100%
Whether or not Danglars believes wholeheartedly in what he posts, I think he does an excellent job at providing reasons for people who generally don't post here to feel the way they do, or rather, insights into what they would be thinking and why. I don't know where he actually stands, nor does that really matter. I think that it's incredibly valuable to have an "other side" take to balance out what would otherwise be a rather lopsided discussion about every issue. That's how I see the thread, anyway; just my 2 cents as a [mostly] lurker.
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On December 16 2020 03:24 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2020 23:19 Nevuk wrote:On December 15 2020 09:49 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 08:34 Nevuk wrote:Bill Barr is stepping down, following a series of Trump attacks on him for not having dropped the news about Hunter Biden being under investigation for tax evasion shortly before the election when he had known about it since April (it really wouldn't have mattered : no one gave a shit about Hunter Biden except Trump diehards). A source close to Barr called Trump a deposed king clinging to power, which was ironic, coming from an ally of the person who singlehandedly has done the most to enshrine Trump's power. ("Barr cannot be intimidated by Trump. This is the real story. None of this matters -- it's the deposed king ranting. Irrelevant to the course of justice and to Trump's election loss" ) per CNN edition.cnn.com) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338614499981602819 The whole attempt to paint the Hunter Biden computer/emails story as some kind of Russian disinformation would've been smacked down hard if anyone leaked that there was an investigation of over two years into Hunter for Chinese money laundering. If you recall, his former business partner Bobulinski alleged all that back after the story, while confirming the authenticity of the emails. The margins of the Biden electoral win in the states that carried him over was between 0.24% and 1.16%. I wouldn't discount the potential release of corroborating information close to the election. You're a little looney on the "nobody gives a shit." As for the moral side, I've had enough of Comey-style prosecutorial releases near an election, and Barr made the right decision to sit on it. Let me issue this correction : no one would have given a shit about what Barr said on the matter. He burned all his credibility with his Mueller summary. In fact, his leaking would have made me even less inclined to believe it. Also, nice attempt to conflate seeming russian agprop with an actual investigation (no one was investigating based on the ridiculous laptop story). Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side. And wow, just wow, on the Russian agitprop. The main corroborator of the emails says the exact same allegations as what had been under official investigation for two years, and Democrats become blind and deaf. It’s too perfect for words!
Weren't there like ten counts of obstruction of justice outlined in the Mueller Report? If I remember correctly, there were quite a few things recommended against Trump, and I thought Barr rejected them all because he was of the position that the president is above the law in those regards?
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On December 16 2020 04:10 patrick321 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2020 03:24 Danglars wrote:
Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side. Let's not forget that even the federal court system was throwing shade at barr. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/us/politics/mueller-report-barr-judge-walton.htmlShow nested quote + Mr. Barr could not be trusted, Judge Reggie B. Walton said, citing “inconsistencies” between the attorney general’s statements about the report when it was secret and its actual contents that turned out to be more damaging to President Trump. Mr. Barr’s “lack of candor” called into question his “credibility and, in turn, the department’s” assurances to the court, Judge Walton said.
...
The differences between the report and Mr. Barr’s description of it “cause the court to seriously question whether Attorney General Barr made a calculated attempt to influence public discourse about the Mueller report in favor of President Trump despite certain findings in the redacted version of the Mueller report to the contrary,” wrote Judge Walton, an appointee of President George W. Bush.
Wow, a single judge wrote a critique relying on his opinion of the presentation. Devastating.
On December 16 2020 05:10 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2020 04:17 JimmiC wrote:On December 16 2020 03:27 KwarK wrote:On December 16 2020 03:24 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 23:19 Nevuk wrote:On December 15 2020 09:49 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 08:34 Nevuk wrote:Bill Barr is stepping down, following a series of Trump attacks on him for not having dropped the news about Hunter Biden being under investigation for tax evasion shortly before the election when he had known about it since April (it really wouldn't have mattered : no one gave a shit about Hunter Biden except Trump diehards). A source close to Barr called Trump a deposed king clinging to power, which was ironic, coming from an ally of the person who singlehandedly has done the most to enshrine Trump's power. ("Barr cannot be intimidated by Trump. This is the real story. None of this matters -- it's the deposed king ranting. Irrelevant to the course of justice and to Trump's election loss" ) per CNN edition.cnn.com) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338614499981602819 The whole attempt to paint the Hunter Biden computer/emails story as some kind of Russian disinformation would've been smacked down hard if anyone leaked that there was an investigation of over two years into Hunter for Chinese money laundering. If you recall, his former business partner Bobulinski alleged all that back after the story, while confirming the authenticity of the emails. The margins of the Biden electoral win in the states that carried him over was between 0.24% and 1.16%. I wouldn't discount the potential release of corroborating information close to the election. You're a little looney on the "nobody gives a shit." As for the moral side, I've had enough of Comey-style prosecutorial releases near an election, and Barr made the right decision to sit on it. Let me issue this correction : no one would have given a shit about what Barr said on the matter. He burned all his credibility with his Mueller summary. In fact, his leaking would have made me even less inclined to believe it. Also, nice attempt to conflate seeming russian agprop with an actual investigation (no one was investigating based on the ridiculous laptop story). Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side. And wow, just wow, on the Russian agitprop. The main corroborator of the emails says the exact same allegations as what had been under official investigation for two years, and Democrats become blind and deaf. It’s too perfect for words! The Mueller report stated that misuse of power did occur and that Trump was only not indicted because DoJ policy was for congress to bring impeachment proceedings when the President is criminal. Barr’s summary was that Trump did nothing wrong. Have you read the report? Are you not at all curious why Mueller said Barr’s summary misled the public? He knows, he has been told here if he could not figure it out himself. But his schtick must continue, this is what makes him so much worse than xDaunt. Xdaunt was authentic, he said the things he thought whether or not they made your skin crawl. Danglars believes all the same stuff, perhaps more he just like to stick around the outsides to try to get people to react then claim innocence and get back on his soap box of morality. Danglars being honest or authentic is just not in his nature or character. I have a different read on this. I do think he is being honest and authentic. He is very good at finding small contradictory things within people's posts and focussing on those at the expense of actually addressing what the poster was trying to get across, which leads to many posters accusing him of being dishonest. I think this is probably a result of his professional training (Danglars is a lawyer as far as I recall?). This does mean that sometimes Danglars comes across as obtuse, and he does have a tendency to ignore evidence that contradicts his points, but so do we all. I have to say, one of the reasons I keep coming back to this thread is to read about what conservatives are talking about, i.e. from Danglars and other conservative posters, without having to wade into actual rightwing message boards that tend to be a bit more, shall we say, on the fanfic side. I also think the thread would benefit from having fewer personal attacks, as those just make people defensive.
I'm not a lawyer. I observe and comment on politics and advocate for conservative policy goals within the Republican party. You're probably thinking about xDaunt here.
I reject the thread-normal at making bad arguments, and failing to tie evidence to points and arguments, and then alleging its intentional ignoring of evidence. Come at me with your good arguments if you have them. I particularly like the responses to posts I make providing tons of evidence on a tangential point that they really really like and ... none of it addressing the points I raised. Sorry, do a better job reading and responding, not taking it in a different direction and acting aggrieved that I put in equal effort they did on the original topic.
On December 16 2020 06:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2020 03:24 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 23:19 Nevuk wrote:On December 15 2020 09:49 Danglars wrote:On December 15 2020 08:34 Nevuk wrote:Bill Barr is stepping down, following a series of Trump attacks on him for not having dropped the news about Hunter Biden being under investigation for tax evasion shortly before the election when he had known about it since April (it really wouldn't have mattered : no one gave a shit about Hunter Biden except Trump diehards). A source close to Barr called Trump a deposed king clinging to power, which was ironic, coming from an ally of the person who singlehandedly has done the most to enshrine Trump's power. ("Barr cannot be intimidated by Trump. This is the real story. None of this matters -- it's the deposed king ranting. Irrelevant to the course of justice and to Trump's election loss" ) per CNN edition.cnn.com) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1338614499981602819 The whole attempt to paint the Hunter Biden computer/emails story as some kind of Russian disinformation would've been smacked down hard if anyone leaked that there was an investigation of over two years into Hunter for Chinese money laundering. If you recall, his former business partner Bobulinski alleged all that back after the story, while confirming the authenticity of the emails. The margins of the Biden electoral win in the states that carried him over was between 0.24% and 1.16%. I wouldn't discount the potential release of corroborating information close to the election. You're a little looney on the "nobody gives a shit." As for the moral side, I've had enough of Comey-style prosecutorial releases near an election, and Barr made the right decision to sit on it. Let me issue this correction : no one would have given a shit about what Barr said on the matter. He burned all his credibility with his Mueller summary. In fact, his leaking would have made me even less inclined to believe it. Also, nice attempt to conflate seeming russian agprop with an actual investigation (no one was investigating based on the ridiculous laptop story). Well, you’re definitely on the other side of the divide. For all Barr’s faults, the treatment of the Mueller report was a shining example of good judgement and preservation of the rule of law. The lack of briefings on interminable investigations fall on the other side. And wow, just wow, on the Russian agitprop. The main corroborator of the emails says the exact same allegations as what had been under official investigation for two years, and Democrats become blind and deaf. It’s too perfect for words! Weren't there like ten counts of obstruction of justice outlined in the Mueller Report? If I remember correctly, there were quite a few things recommended against Trump, and I thought Barr rejected them all because he was of the position that the president is above the law in those regards?
Nah. The best they came up with was Trump's lawyers and advisers refusing to do what was asked of them, as is there job in service of the President.
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United States43863 Posts
Is there any critique that could be made by an individual that couldn’t be dismissed out of hand with the words “single” and “opinion”? How easy being a conservative must be. No need to address the words, as long as they weren’t issued by a hive mind collective speaking objective truth they can be disregarded.
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Danlgars is the height of intellectual dishonesty in this thread and is really only comparable to xDaunt and GH.
Is it nice to have conservative viewpoints here? Of course.
The problem is that Danglars is just a more eloquent version of a Trumper. He lives in his own reality where he grossly distorts the facts so that his world view isn't threatened. He probably has such a high opinion of Barr because his own partisan tendencies are reflected in Barr; a unique kind of hypocritical arrogance that hides behind the idea of "the rule of law".
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United States10360 Posts
I reject the thread-normal at making bad arguments, and failing to tie evidence to points and arguments, and then alleging its intentional ignoring of evidence. Come at me with your good arguments if you have them.
Hello and welcome to /r/iamverysmart.
Shut the fuck up about people making "bad arguments". Everyone in this thread is going to point fingers and say people make bad arguments, myself included. But I think everyone should stop making this atrocious point. You think they're speaking out of their ass? Great, ignore them or continue to provide more evidence to back your side up. This is such a cop out, disingenuous, fake, moral bullshit point.
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On December 16 2020 07:05 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Danlgars is the height of intellectual dishonesty in this thread and is really only comparable to xDaunt and GH.
Is it nice to have conservative viewpoints here? Of course.
The problem is that Danglars is just a more eloquent version of a Trumper. He lives in his own reality where he grossly distorts the facts so that his world view isn't threatened. He probably has such a high opinion of Barr because his own partisan tendencies are reflected in Barr; a unique kind of hypocritical arrogance that hides behind the idea of "the rule of law".
I'm in it for all the personal insults and the asides. Why talk politics when you can come together as a left-leaning thread and insult the people talking politics?
You're all being brutally, brutally honest here and I hope you can reread the last few pages and start asking some tough questions of yourselves.
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On December 16 2020 07:11 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2020 07:05 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Danlgars is the height of intellectual dishonesty in this thread and is really only comparable to xDaunt and GH.
Is it nice to have conservative viewpoints here? Of course.
The problem is that Danglars is just a more eloquent version of a Trumper. He lives in his own reality where he grossly distorts the facts so that his world view isn't threatened. He probably has such a high opinion of Barr because his own partisan tendencies are reflected in Barr; a unique kind of hypocritical arrogance that hides behind the idea of "the rule of law". I'm in it for all the personal insults and the asides. Why talk politics when you can come together as a left-leaning thread and insult the people talking politics? You're all being brutally, brutally honest here and I hope you can reread the last few pages and start asking some tough questions of yourselves.
And when people give your posts well-earned criticisms you cop out by calling everyone a left-wing hivemind. Like you remember none of the times all the other regulars have argued, bitched each other out, gotten petty, or otherwise just disagreed on anything. As you like to remind others, you're free to go back and reread.
Maybe it's not a grand conspiracy that's responsible for people having problems with your arguments. Maybe it's that you bring disingenuous and misleading arguments that are always angling ever-rightward, constantly disrespecting everyone and their intelligence, with you refusing to hold yourself to any of the standards you try to use to guilt-trip everyone else. Why should anyone take your arguments seriously if you don't believe them yourself?
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Norway28784 Posts
Not a fan of the current pile-on. What are you guys (non-danglars) trying to achieve here?
I don't perceive Danglars as intellectually dishonest and I've had productive discussions with him on many occasions. We're as politically different as it gets, but I've always found that if I present my argument or questions without any insults (thinly-veiled or otherwise), I get honest arguments in return. But start out your post with 'you are the height of intellectual dishonesty' (not really singling you out here stratos_spear, your post just happens to be in my screen currently) then what response do you expect? I sure as hell wouldn't bother giving a good answer to someone with that preconception of me.
I also think this whole.. 'we demand that you repent'- thingy is extremely counter-productive if you're aiming for bridging the gap.
And it's not like Danglars ever expressed much fondness for Trump. I'm Norwegian so obviously I haven't voted in the american elections, but if I had, I would have very happily voted for Hillary, and then Biden. It doesn't mean I want to defend everything they do. If Hillary had become the president and there was some grand corruption scandal involving her, my 'defense' of that would most likely have been something to the effect of 'but lol the republicans ran trump'. Danglars has admitted that Trump is actually worse than the democrat counterparts on non-policy issues - but he has also highlighted that much of the trouble plaguing the republican party isn't exclusive to them (even if it's more prominent there).
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On December 16 2020 07:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Not a fan of the current pile-on. What are you guys (non-danglars) trying to achieve here?
I don't perceive Danglars as intellectually dishonest and I've had productive discussions with him on many occasions. We're as politically different as it gets, but I've always found that if I present my argument or questions without any insults (thinly-veiled or otherwise), I get honest arguments in return. But start out your post with 'you are the height of intellectual dishonesty' (not really singling you out here stratos_spear, your post just happens to be in my screen currently) then what response do you expect? I sure as hell wouldn't bother giving a good answer to someone with that preconception of me.
I also think this whole.. 'we demand that you repent'- thingy is extremely counter-productive if you're aiming for bridging the gap.
And it's not like Danglars ever expressed much fondness for Trump. I'm Norwegian so obviously I haven't voted in the american elections, but if I had, I would have very happily voted for Hillary, and then Biden. It doesn't mean I want to defend everything they do. If Hillary had become the president and there was some grand corruption scandal involving her, my 'defense' of that would most likely have been something to the effect of 'but lol the republicans ran trump'. Danglars has admitted that Trump is actually worse than the democrat counterparts on non-policy issues - but he has also highlighted that much of the trouble plaguing the republican party isn't exclusive to them (even if it's more prominent there).
Trying to laugh off Trump legit attacking the democratic foundations of the country as being 'theater', as if Trump himself is not being dead serious, probably rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
And yes he has expressed he doesn't like Trump, but he is also ok with it because Trump advances his political agenda. Its hard not to draw parallels to every slide into dictatorship where people stood by and shrugged because it wasn't their beliefs being repressed.
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On December 16 2020 07:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Not a fan of the current pile-on. What are you guys (non-danglars) trying to achieve here?
I don't perceive Danglars as intellectually dishonest and I've had productive discussions with him on many occasions. We're as politically different as it gets, but I've always found that if I present my argument or questions without any insults (thinly-veiled or otherwise), I get honest arguments in return. But start out your post with 'you are the height of intellectual dishonesty' (not really singling you out here stratos_spear, your post just happens to be in my screen currently) then what response do you expect? I sure as hell wouldn't bother giving a good answer to someone with that preconception of me.
I also think this whole.. 'we demand that you repent'- thingy is extremely counter-productive if you're aiming for bridging the gap.
And it's not like Danglars ever expressed much fondness for Trump. I'm Norwegian so obviously I haven't voted in the american elections, but if I had, I would have very happily voted for Hillary, and then Biden. It doesn't mean I want to defend everything they do. If Hillary had become the president and there was some grand corruption scandal involving her, my 'defense' of that would most likely have been something to the effect of 'but lol the republicans ran trump'. Danglars has admitted that Trump is actually worse than the democrat counterparts on non-policy issues - but he has also highlighted that much of the trouble plaguing the republican party isn't exclusive to them (even if it's more prominent there).
For a start, establishing that it is absolutely valid for people to be concerned about a sitting President, along with a not-insubstantial amount of supporters, launching attacks on the election results in the hope of perpetuating their dreams of a fascist regime. He doesn't express outright love for Trump, because he knows it's ridiculous, and that it would put him in poor company any place that doesn't lean far right, let alone TeamLiquid. But he does a fantastic job of minimizing any critiques or problems people have with Trump, which puts him in a similar role to the problematic White Moderate in racial justice issues. As bad as, or worse than, the outright attackers.
Is it nice to have an opposing view? Absolutely. It's good to have a continual check on things most of us seem to agree on, to make sure it stays that way for a reason. That doesn't mean the opposing view is exempt from ridicule if it turns out it's ridiculous. It's an ongoing process of checks and debates among ideas.
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Whenever Danglars posts something like "I don't condone that specific thing Trump did, but lets not forget that Democrats also..." or "this one controversial thing Republicans did was correct", it's often twisted into "I'm a 100% Trumper and Democrats are the real racists!!1". I don't understand why he keeps interacting with those posters. All it does is bringing him closer to another ban.
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EPT
