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On November 26 2020 12:45 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 12:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. Jfc Says who? He was coerced into a guilty plea. It's what the Feds do, unfortunately. The DoJ has dropped all charges against him. What a embarrassing person to be put in that position of power that can be so easily coerced even with his lawyer present. I mean yikes that is some next level dumb. Or he did it and Trump is pardoning him for his purposes not because of innocence. So it is incredible incompetence hiring him, or corruption pardoning him or both.
You can have whatever opinion of Flynn you want, but you're underestimating how powerful the FBI and those behind the corrupt Special Counsel really are. The feds withheld evidence that would've gotten the prosecution's case thrown out the window, while putting a single man - a cog in the machine compared to others - under the full pressure of Federal bureaucratic power.
I won't pretend to know the exact reason Trump is pardoning Flynn. However, given the fact that they can still go after Flynn if Trump is thrown out, presidential pardon on Flynn is a pretty libertarian move in terms of checking the power of the federal bureaucracy, prosecutors (who have complete discretion to indict people), and the "justice" system in general (which is out of control).
I don't even like Flynn , as for decades, he was an agent of the US war machine. That doesn't mean I like seeing the Feds railroad someone political and selective prosecution
On November 26 2020 13:32 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 12:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. Jfc Says who? He was coerced into a guilty plea. It's what the Feds do, unfortunately. The DoJ has dropped all charges against him. Says Flynn. After it came out that he was an unregistered foreign agent he registered as a foreign agent and filed papers declaring that he was paid $500,000 by Turkey. Are you this out of touch with reality? The US requires foreign spies to register themselves with the state department. Obviously it's not really expected that they will but it automatically gives something to try them with, failure to register, when they don't. Once the news broke that Flynn was taking money to advance Turkish interests while NSA and was therefore an unregistered foreign agent he submitted paperwork registering his status as a foreign agent to get in compliance with the law. In a sane world that would help him with that charge but fuck him over because members of the government shouldn't be working on the side for other governments. But this is the Trump administration and so they didn't give a fuck.
This is what you're saying he should be hanged for?
First of all, I'm pretty sure the maximum punishment for this is pretty much a slap on the wrist for someone as rich and powerful as Flynn. Certainly not getting hanged, and I'd be surprised if prison time involved.
Second of all, there was the case to be made that Flynn was "unaware" that he was really working to further the interests of the Turkish government - I believe Flynn was hired by an entity far removed from the actual Turkish government, so whether or not he was hired by an actual arm of the government was grey area at best.
Finally, any other offense (related to lying) you could get him with is thrown out the window thanks to coercion by federal prosecution
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United States43934 Posts
On November 26 2020 14:04 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 12:45 JimmiC wrote:On November 26 2020 12:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. Jfc Says who? He was coerced into a guilty plea. It's what the Feds do, unfortunately. The DoJ has dropped all charges against him. What a embarrassing person to be put in that position of power that can be so easily coerced even with his lawyer present. I mean yikes that is some next level dumb. Or he did it and Trump is pardoning him for his purposes not because of innocence. So it is incredible incompetence hiring him, or corruption pardoning him or both. You can have whatever opinion of Flynn you want, but you're underestimating how powerful the FBI and those behind the corrupt Special Counsel really are. The feds withheld evidence that would've gotten the prosecution's case thrown out the window, while putting a single man - a cog in the machine compared to others - under the full pressure of Federal bureaucratic power. I won't pretend to know the exact reason Trump is pardoning Flynn. However, given the fact that they can still go after Flynn if Trump is thrown out, presidential pardon on Flynn is a pretty libertarian move in terms of checking the power of the federal bureaucracy, prosecutors (who have complete discretion to indict people), and the "justice" system in general (which is out of control). I don't even like Flynn , as for decades, he was an agent of the US war machine. That doesn't mean I like seeing the Feds railroad someone political and selective prosecution Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 13:32 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 12:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. Jfc Says who? He was coerced into a guilty plea. It's what the Feds do, unfortunately. The DoJ has dropped all charges against him. Says Flynn. After it came out that he was an unregistered foreign agent he registered as a foreign agent and filed papers declaring that he was paid $500,000 by Turkey. Are you this out of touch with reality? The US requires foreign spies to register themselves with the state department. Obviously it's not really expected that they will but it automatically gives something to try them with, failure to register, when they don't. Once the news broke that Flynn was taking money to advance Turkish interests while NSA and was therefore an unregistered foreign agent he submitted paperwork registering his status as a foreign agent to get in compliance with the law. In a sane world that would help him with that charge but fuck him over because members of the government shouldn't be working on the side for other governments. But this is the Trump administration and so they didn't give a fuck. This is what you're saying he should be hanged for? First of all, I'm pretty sure the maximum punishment for this is pretty much a slap on the wrist for someone as rich and powerful as Flynn. Certainly not getting hanged, and I'd be surprised if prison time involved. Second of all, there was the case to be made that Flynn was "unaware" that he was really working to further the interests of the Turkish government - I believe Flynn was hired by an entity far removed from the actual Turkish government, so whether or not he was hired by an actual arm of the government was grey area at best. Finally, any other offense (related to lying) you could get him with is thrown out the window thanks to coercion by federal prosecution
If we’re not hanging people for taking money from a foreign state and furthering their interests over national interests while in a senior government position what the hell are we going to hang people for?
As for “maybe he didn’t know he was a foreign agent”, that’s why they make you disclose everything on those forms. The FBI can check that stuff. He lied on his forms.
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On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:43 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:38 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:37 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. And even if that story is 100% accurate that has what to do with the farce of trying to first get him on the Logan Act (good idea, Joe Biden!). They were clearly out to get him from the very start. Another reason I don't want to hear complaints about "peaceful transitions of power." The last one hobbled the current from before he was even sworn in. This is a good day. When you say "even if it's accurate" are you saying that you don't believe Flynn registered himself as a foreign agent after the news broke? Which part of this are you skeptical about? Flynn literally filed paperwork to declare that he was getting paid by Turkey while working as NSA. Do you think he lied on that paperwork? What Flynn did would earn almost anyone else a slap on the wrist. Turkey isn't even the main story here What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line?
Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate.
But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution.
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United States43934 Posts
On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:43 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:38 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:37 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. And even if that story is 100% accurate that has what to do with the farce of trying to first get him on the Logan Act (good idea, Joe Biden!). They were clearly out to get him from the very start. Another reason I don't want to hear complaints about "peaceful transitions of power." The last one hobbled the current from before he was even sworn in. This is a good day. When you say "even if it's accurate" are you saying that you don't believe Flynn registered himself as a foreign agent after the news broke? Which part of this are you skeptical about? Flynn literally filed paperwork to declare that he was getting paid by Turkey while working as NSA. Do you think he lied on that paperwork? What Flynn did would earn almost anyone else a slap on the wrist. Turkey isn't even the main story here What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution.
The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. You probably don’t want to go with that argument because I don’t think it supports you. But I also don’t think you should be siding with ISIS and yet here we are.
As for it being manufactured by Obama, he literally registered himself as a foreign agent after the story broke. If this is a conspiracy then Flynn was actively involved conspiring against himself.
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On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:43 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:38 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:37 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. And even if that story is 100% accurate that has what to do with the farce of trying to first get him on the Logan Act (good idea, Joe Biden!). They were clearly out to get him from the very start. Another reason I don't want to hear complaints about "peaceful transitions of power." The last one hobbled the current from before he was even sworn in. This is a good day. When you say "even if it's accurate" are you saying that you don't believe Flynn registered himself as a foreign agent after the news broke? Which part of this are you skeptical about? Flynn literally filed paperwork to declare that he was getting paid by Turkey while working as NSA. Do you think he lied on that paperwork? What Flynn did would earn almost anyone else a slap on the wrist. Turkey isn't even the main story here What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it.
That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything substaintial to do with this episode.
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On November 26 2020 14:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:04 BerserkSword wrote:On November 26 2020 12:45 JimmiC wrote:On November 26 2020 12:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. Jfc Says who? He was coerced into a guilty plea. It's what the Feds do, unfortunately. The DoJ has dropped all charges against him. What a embarrassing person to be put in that position of power that can be so easily coerced even with his lawyer present. I mean yikes that is some next level dumb. Or he did it and Trump is pardoning him for his purposes not because of innocence. So it is incredible incompetence hiring him, or corruption pardoning him or both. You can have whatever opinion of Flynn you want, but you're underestimating how powerful the FBI and those behind the corrupt Special Counsel really are. The feds withheld evidence that would've gotten the prosecution's case thrown out the window, while putting a single man - a cog in the machine compared to others - under the full pressure of Federal bureaucratic power. I won't pretend to know the exact reason Trump is pardoning Flynn. However, given the fact that they can still go after Flynn if Trump is thrown out, presidential pardon on Flynn is a pretty libertarian move in terms of checking the power of the federal bureaucracy, prosecutors (who have complete discretion to indict people), and the "justice" system in general (which is out of control). I don't even like Flynn , as for decades, he was an agent of the US war machine. That doesn't mean I like seeing the Feds railroad someone political and selective prosecution On November 26 2020 13:32 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 12:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. Jfc Says who? He was coerced into a guilty plea. It's what the Feds do, unfortunately. The DoJ has dropped all charges against him. Says Flynn. After it came out that he was an unregistered foreign agent he registered as a foreign agent and filed papers declaring that he was paid $500,000 by Turkey. Are you this out of touch with reality? The US requires foreign spies to register themselves with the state department. Obviously it's not really expected that they will but it automatically gives something to try them with, failure to register, when they don't. Once the news broke that Flynn was taking money to advance Turkish interests while NSA and was therefore an unregistered foreign agent he submitted paperwork registering his status as a foreign agent to get in compliance with the law. In a sane world that would help him with that charge but fuck him over because members of the government shouldn't be working on the side for other governments. But this is the Trump administration and so they didn't give a fuck. This is what you're saying he should be hanged for? First of all, I'm pretty sure the maximum punishment for this is pretty much a slap on the wrist for someone as rich and powerful as Flynn. Certainly not getting hanged, and I'd be surprised if prison time involved. Second of all, there was the case to be made that Flynn was "unaware" that he was really working to further the interests of the Turkish government - I believe Flynn was hired by an entity far removed from the actual Turkish government, so whether or not he was hired by an actual arm of the government was grey area at best. Finally, any other offense (related to lying) you could get him with is thrown out the window thanks to coercion by federal prosecution If we’re not hanging people for taking money from a foreign state and furthering their interests over national interests while in a senior government position what the hell are we going to hang people for? As for “maybe he didn’t know he was a foreign agent”, that’s why they make you disclose everything on those forms. The FBI can check that stuff. He lied on his forms.
I just looked up that whole attack on ISIS thing.
If true, that's pretty big. However, all the articles I found on the matter say that the attack wasn't cancelled, just delayed, and there is no evidence that Flynn delaying it has to do with Turkey. Maybe you have a better article?
As for the other Turkey business - I was under the impression that Flynn's company was merely investigating a Turkish person (don't know if he was a turkish national or Turkish-american) for a Turkish businessman (who may or may not have been connected to the Turkish government but even if there was a connection it was far removed)
I looked up the FARA law enforcement and the max penalty for a government official is 250k fine and 2 years of prison time
https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/fara-enforcement
Certainly not hanging but I'd assume that if it could be proven that Flynn recommended a delay on the ISIS strike to the Executive Brass BECAUSE of Turkish interests then that would be another story, but I can't find anything that suggests that's what happened
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United States43934 Posts
On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:43 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:38 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:37 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. And even if that story is 100% accurate that has what to do with the farce of trying to first get him on the Logan Act (good idea, Joe Biden!). They were clearly out to get him from the very start. Another reason I don't want to hear complaints about "peaceful transitions of power." The last one hobbled the current from before he was even sworn in. This is a good day. When you say "even if it's accurate" are you saying that you don't believe Flynn registered himself as a foreign agent after the news broke? Which part of this are you skeptical about? Flynn literally filed paperwork to declare that he was getting paid by Turkey while working as NSA. Do you think he lied on that paperwork? What Flynn did would earn almost anyone else a slap on the wrist. Turkey isn't even the main story here What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode.
If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? The Gulen stuff is almost as bad too (though at least he wasn’t helping ISIS that time).
I’m not bothered about the lying thing, I’m just on the “fuck Flynn and fuck Trump for appointing people like him” train as everyone should be. This should be bipartisan. People like Flynn aren’t who this nation needs.
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On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:43 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:38 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:37 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
And even if that story is 100% accurate that has what to do with the farce of trying to first get him on the Logan Act (good idea, Joe Biden!). They were clearly out to get him from the very start.
Another reason I don't want to hear complaints about "peaceful transitions of power." The last one hobbled the current from before he was even sworn in. This is a good day. When you say "even if it's accurate" are you saying that you don't believe Flynn registered himself as a foreign agent after the news broke? Which part of this are you skeptical about? Flynn literally filed paperwork to declare that he was getting paid by Turkey while working as NSA. Do you think he lied on that paperwork? What Flynn did would earn almost anyone else a slap on the wrist. Turkey isn't even the main story here What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story?
Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power?
There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about.
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United States43934 Posts
On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:43 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:38 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
When you say "even if it's accurate" are you saying that you don't believe Flynn registered himself as a foreign agent after the news broke? Which part of this are you skeptical about? Flynn literally filed paperwork to declare that he was getting paid by Turkey while working as NSA. Do you think he lied on that paperwork? What Flynn did would earn almost anyone else a slap on the wrist. Turkey isn't even the main story here What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about.
How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon.
Edit: but I also don’t accept your initial premise that he was persecuted, he lied on the standard forms that every government member has always had to fill out. They didn’t single him out for scrutiny, he couldn’t pass the default level of scrutiny.
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On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:43 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
What Flynn did would earn almost anyone else a slap on the wrist. Turkey isn't even the main story here What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon.
And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition!
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On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to.
At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition!
Is it that you’re saying you’re not convinced Flynn advocated for Turkey’s interests over the US? It’s not clear to me what you are saying is unknown
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United States43934 Posts
On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to.
At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about. Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece. I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition!
I want appointees to be subjected to scrutiny. I think it’s a good thing. Again, this should be bipartisan. If Biden appointees are foreign agents I want that to be discovered, Biden crucified (metaphorically) for his bad judgement, and the agents hanged.
What happened to Flynn is an absolute good. Trump appointed a foreign agent (per Flynn’s own registration form) to a senior government role but fortunately he was discovered before he could do too much damage.
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I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Introvert liked that the rogue justice system didn't claim another victim as a tool of the Special Counsel Investigation.
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On November 26 2020 14:33 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about.
Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador.
[quote]
As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece.
I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! Is it that you’re saying you’re not convinced Flynn advocated for Turkey’s interests over the US? It’s not clear to me what you are saying is unknown
In the particulars of that attack, no, I don't know for sure. It appears that many people were unsure of the right course.
On November 26 2020 14:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about.
Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador.
[quote]
As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece.
I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! I want appointees to be subjected to scrutiny. I think it’s a good thing.
Yes, criminal prosecution and destruction of livelihood = "scrutiny." lol. Cut the crap, we all know that if the incoming Biden NSA was talking with the Chinese ambassador and Trump's people tried to get him for it that your response wouldn't be "he's really being held to a high standard here!" It would be... well first it would be "but Trump" followed by the correct reason "politically motivated witch-hunts by law enforcement agencies are bad."
But if you really are justifying everything as "well, Flynn is bad" then there isn't anything more to say, really.
edit:
to your edit, that's not the correct logical event linkage, as I have pointed out several times. You are creating a rationale not employed by the relevant parties to justify an action that is obviously wrong.
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On November 26 2020 14:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:59 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
And this is why "even if..." is one of my favorite openings. Because then we fairly dismiss all other claims and even accept the typically un-balanced KwarK take from, you know, what we were actually talking about.
Was he railroaded for his Turkish lobbying job? No? Alrighty then! The FBI was looking for anything and the best they came back with was lying to the FBI about a phone call with the Russian ambassador.
[quote]
As for this line, I'm half-tempted to quote it somewhere. It's simple, but a masterpiece.
I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! I want appointees to be subjected to scrutiny. I think it’s a good thing. Again, this should be bipartisan. If Biden appointees are foreign agents I want that to be discovered, Biden crucified (metaphorically) for his bad judgement, and the agents hanged. What happened to Flynn is an absolute good. Trump appointed a foreign agent (per Flynn’s own registration form) to a senior government role but fortunately he was discovered before he could do too much damage.
I mean, they've run with the logic that Trump was being persecuted because he attempted to solicit foreign aid but was too stupid to get it, therefore he never attempted to solicit that foreign aid. So this tracks.
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United States43934 Posts
On November 26 2020 14:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:33 Mohdoo wrote:On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! Is it that you’re saying you’re not convinced Flynn advocated for Turkey’s interests over the US? It’s not clear to me what you are saying is unknown In the particulars of that attack, no, I don't know for sure. It appears that many people were unsure of the right course. Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:34 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:03 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I genuinely mean it. I honestly don’t get how conservatives like yourself have become so ridiculously partisan that “my guy may protect ISIS for money but he’s still my guy” is a thing. Is there any line? Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate. But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! I want appointees to be subjected to scrutiny. I think it’s a good thing. Yes, criminal prosecution and destruction of livelihood = "scrutiny." lol. Cut the crap, we all know that if the incoming Biden NSA was talking with the Chinese ambassador and Trump's people tried to get him for it that your response wouldn't be "he's really being held to a high standard here!" It would be... well first it would be "but Trump" followed by the correct reason "political motivated witch-hunts by law enforcement agencies is bad." But if you really are justifying everything as "well, Flynn is bad" then there isn't anything more to say, really.
We don’t all know that. I disagree that I would. Hyper partisan behaviour is yours, you can’t just project your own hyper partisan actions onto me and then attack me for the hypocrisy of what you’re imagining I would do.
If Biden appointed an unregistered foreign agent as NSA I would be glad when the FBI took him down.
The hypocrisy you’re imagining I would have doesn’t excuse the hypocrisy you’re actively engaging in. This is classic projection. You’re trying to excuse yourself by calling me just as bad but, as you don’t have an example to use, you’ve resorted to insisting that you imagine me to be just as bad but that still counts.
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On November 26 2020 14:00 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 13:55 ChristianS wrote:On November 26 2020 13:47 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:43 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 13:38 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 13:37 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 11:50 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 11:33 Introvert wrote:
Took a thread break, but just have to express my happiness that Flynn was pardoned. Besides Trump himself, he may have been the first and most wronged individual coming out of the Russian Collusion nonsense. At the very least that injustice will not be allowed to stand. He was literally an agent of a foreign government and advancing their interests over American interests as national security advisor? What reality are you from? He’s guilty of a capital offence. They should have hanged him. And even if that story is 100% accurate that has what to do with the farce of trying to first get him on the Logan Act (good idea, Joe Biden!). They were clearly out to get him from the very start. Another reason I don't want to hear complaints about "peaceful transitions of power." The last one hobbled the current from before he was even sworn in. This is a good day. When you say "even if it's accurate" are you saying that you don't believe Flynn registered himself as a foreign agent after the news broke? Which part of this are you skeptical about? Flynn literally filed paperwork to declare that he was getting paid by Turkey while working as NSA. Do you think he lied on that paperwork? What Flynn did would earn almost anyone else a slap on the wrist. Turkey isn't even the main story here What Flynn did was treasonous. He cancelled a planned US/Kurdish attack on the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa because it would have given a victory to the Kurdish YPG which was contrary to Turkish interests. He literally prevented an attack on ISIS because Turkey asked him to. At a certain point Introvert even you have to stop defending the guy who is on the side of ISIS over the United States. I think we’re kinda glossing over “prosecuting Flynn means Democrats can’t complain about Trump trying to steal an election he lost.” That’s easily the more embarrassing take imo That too. Trump was hobbled by requiring his appointees to obtain security clearances and declare conflicts of interest which are the basic requirements that every appointee should have been able to pass. Insisting that those requirements didn’t give Trump’s foreign agent appointees a fair chance is a weird take.
I don’t know what to make of conservatives these days. Part of me wants them to have a path back because I think conservative ideology has some actual value and depth where Trumpism is just conspiracy theories and personality cult. Concepts like rule of law and due process in particular could have a lot of value for restoring some sanity to our politics.
But hearing actual conservatives talk it’s still nothing but grievance politics. None of them has an answer for how conservatism became so bankrupt its own followers abandoned it for conspiracy theories and personality cult 4 years ago and mostly haven’t looked back. Objectively I think Trump is the least conservative president in my lifetime, but conservatives rarely have criticism for it and never have a sincere argument about how a more conservative approach would actually address any of these modern problems.
The retreat to “Obama did something similar once” is telling, not just because the juxtaposition is rarely favorable, but because it doesn’t even pretend to offer solutions. It’s pure deflection. In this case the outrage is over using state power to obtain or manufacture damaging material about opposition leaders, but about a year ago we learned Trump did exactly that and they didn’t seem especially concerned. As they say, the only ones who believe Republicans’ arguments are Democrats.
Guys like Jonah Goldberg seem to sincerely believe in conservative ideology, recognize how atrocious the last 4 years were by conservative standards, and genuinely want to restore conservative principles to the party. But everybody on the right hates guys like Jonah Goldberg, because they don’t care about conservative principles, they care about their grievances. And Trumpism is so obviously superior if all you really want is payback for all the times you think the other side wronged you. Increasingly I’m not sure how many actual conservatives there are; most self-described conservatives don’t seem to give a shit about Burke or Hayek or Buckley. At some point it’s just a brand people use because the accurate descriptor would be something like “paranoid nationalist” and that doesn’t sound very good.
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On November 26 2020 14:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:40 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:33 Mohdoo wrote:On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate.
But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! Is it that you’re saying you’re not convinced Flynn advocated for Turkey’s interests over the US? It’s not clear to me what you are saying is unknown In the particulars of that attack, no, I don't know for sure. It appears that many people were unsure of the right course. On November 26 2020 14:34 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:10 Introvert wrote:
[quote]
Considering that in one article I looked up moments ago as a refresher mentions that Obama and team hemmed and hawed for months on providing the arms, and that Flynn's delay in the end did not and would not have delayed the attack very long, I'm going to go with "this is not the line". And this of course assumes everything in that story is 100% accurate.
But yet, true or not, that's not what they went after him for. Interesting, isn't it? The FBI going after Flynn wasn't even on grounds as stable as what you are alleging. Because it wasn't actually about what happened. It was that the Obama people hated Flynn, and Flynn was Trump guy so he had to be bad. It was a politically motivated prosecution. The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! I want appointees to be subjected to scrutiny. I think it’s a good thing. Yes, criminal prosecution and destruction of livelihood = "scrutiny." lol. Cut the crap, we all know that if the incoming Biden NSA was talking with the Chinese ambassador and Trump's people tried to get him for it that your response wouldn't be "he's really being held to a high standard here!" It would be... well first it would be "but Trump" followed by the correct reason "political motivated witch-hunts by law enforcement agencies is bad." But if you really are justifying everything as "well, Flynn is bad" then there isn't anything more to say, really. We don’t all know that. I disagree that I would. Hyper partisan behaviour is yours, you can’t just project your own hyper partisan actions onto me and then attack me for the hypocrisy of what you’re imagining I would do. If Biden appointed an unregistered foreign agent as NSA I would be glad when the FBI took him down. The hypocrisy you’re imagining I would have doesn’t excuse the hypocrisy you’re actively engaging in. This is classic projection. You’re trying to excuse yourself by calling me just as bad but, as you don’t have an example to use, you’ve resorted to insisting that you imagine me to be just as bad but that still counts.
you are right, my bad. After all these years I somehow forgot you were a "ends justify the means" person. Sure, an attack on ISIS has nothing substantive to do with the FBI's railroad job, but Flynn was bad anyway so put me down as a +1!
edit: silly word swap rofl. it's been a long day ok
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On November 26 2020 14:46 ChristianS wrote:
I don’t know what to make of conservatives these days.
They fervently support what is essentially a NYC liberal - a leftist trojan horse.
The left has won the long game. Sad !
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United States43934 Posts
On November 26 2020 14:47 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 14:45 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:40 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:33 Mohdoo wrote:On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! Is it that you’re saying you’re not convinced Flynn advocated for Turkey’s interests over the US? It’s not clear to me what you are saying is unknown In the particulars of that attack, no, I don't know for sure. It appears that many people were unsure of the right course. On November 26 2020 14:34 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:31 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:25 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:22 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:17 KwarK wrote:On November 26 2020 14:14 Introvert wrote:On November 26 2020 14:12 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The attack went ahead after the story broke and Flynn was removed. The fact that before Flynn the attack was going to happen, while Flynn was there the attack was cancelled, and after Flynn was removed it was resumed does not support your claim that Flynn didn’t have anything to do with it. That wasn't my claim, I find it entirely plausible that Flynn delayed the attack. What I do not find plausible, because it is obviously absurd, is that Flynn's current court case has anything to do with this episode. If you’re on board with “Flynn used public office to protect ISIS from US attacks to help the Turkish government who were paying him” then why on earth are you now defending him? I know the charge he confessed to was lying to the FBI but shouldn’t you just be generally furious at him because of the whole ISIS part of that story? Too many unknowns, for starters. The decision itself clearly was not an obvious one, which is one reason "ISIS or the United States!?!?" is such a funny thing to say. I'm sure all of us oppose political witch hunts using government power? There is no doubt that, as the article I quoted from originally said, Flynn taking that job at all was a huge error, potentially even displaying judgement so bad he should not have had the job of NSA. But that's not what this is about. How is all the bad shit Flynn did not what “fuck Flynn” is about? “Fuck Flynn” should be something that people from all backgrounds can come together to agree upon. And I'm sure you know that if they get away with this once they will try again. Honestly this such a good example of why the pardon power is and should remain a thing. I can only imagine what will happen during the next Republican administration. Hell, it's conceivable, if less likely, a Democrat appointee would at some point be subjected to this, just for being the opposition! I want appointees to be subjected to scrutiny. I think it’s a good thing. Yes, criminal prosecution and destruction of livelihood = "scrutiny." lol. Cut the crap, we all know that if the incoming Biden NSA was talking with the Chinese ambassador and Trump's people tried to get him for it that your response wouldn't be "he's really being held to a high standard here!" It would be... well first it would be "but Trump" followed by the correct reason "political motivated witch-hunts by law enforcement agencies is bad." But if you really are justifying everything as "well, Flynn is bad" then there isn't anything more to say, really. We don’t all know that. I disagree that I would. Hyper partisan behaviour is yours, you can’t just project your own hyper partisan actions onto me and then attack me for the hypocrisy of what you’re imagining I would do. If Biden appointed an unregistered foreign agent as NSA I would be glad when the FBI took him down. The hypocrisy you’re imagining I would have doesn’t excuse the hypocrisy you’re actively engaging in. This is classic projection. You’re trying to excuse yourself by calling me just as bad but, as you don’t have an example to use, you’ve resorted to insisting that you imagine me to be just as bad but that still counts. you are right, my bad. After all these years I somehow forgot you were a "ends justify the means" person. Sure, an attack on ISIS has nothing substantive to do with the FBI's railroad job, but Flynn was bad anyway so put me down as a +1! edit: silly word swap rofl. it's been a long day ok
Again, I don’t agree with your premise. But even if we accept your premise it feels like the best case scenario is a comparable to a racist cop pulling over a black guy and finding a bunch of dead babies in the trunk. Racist or not, I’m still glad the cop opened that trunk. I’m certainly not going to make that guy the hill I’ll die on.
We disagree whether a witch-hunt occurred here but I think we can find common ground on political witch hunts being bad and Flynn being a terrible NSA.
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EPT
